soon as he grapples would would pass, but he has many books. and yet cuz one of the few women to try to remote villages risk and at all. i because i'm out of them. syrians are demanding truth and justice. and the new leadership is promising punishment for crimes committed going more than a century of us. but is it equipped to carry out this mom effects assault and will a processing fee trans found on this is inside the hello. welcome to the program. and it's me, the head of serious new administration has promised to hung down everyone who took

part in the torture or killing of detainees during the asset regime about l. shara is even offering rewards for information leading to the arrest. roughly a 150000 people were arrested on forcibly disappeared since the crack down on pro democracy, raleigh's in 2011, but spots the civil war. many a believe to been killed. those who survived best physical or psychological sconce . now finally, is that the victims are demanding justice and accountability. there is no shortage of evidence, but kind of a serious new leadership establish a sound legal system to ensure fair trials and won't come into a national community on the united nations due to help. we'll examine these questions without guests. but 1st, this report by sarah gill and a warning to offer you is the sum of the images in her report. audit study a torture execution, attacking civilians with chemical weapons using starvation as

a weapon of who and the bowman of homes, hospitals, and historical buildings. these are just a few of the atrocities serious form of government is accused of committing while the ousting of the shaw left that is in moments of celebration for those who suffered under his room, the feelings of bits of sweet, the sub and the joy is mixed with sadness, the regime arrested me fast and then my 3 sons, i'm free now. they are still missing. i don't know why they all if they're live. the new administration has pledged to unify the divided country, promising justice and accountability. the liberation of syria does not mean only the vanishing of the tyrant and his group, but also the establishment of the state of justice, dignity, freedom, and pride,

and the protection of rights. activist monitoring groups say there's plenty of evidence of the crimes committed as a more than 5 decades fast by the father, half a cent. and then by his son, the united nations believe move violations will come to light. despite extensive documentation and testimonies, they only scratch the surface of the carswell systems horse. these images are a profound testament to unspeakable suffering and pain beyond comprehension, endured by those detained their families, and their loved ones. aside has fled to russia. some say he escaped on punish activate to with what he used to document what they say amounts to his government, school crimes on adamant that justice will be stopped. sorry. go out to 0. the inside story

about springing all guess from london were joined by abraham. a lie, b, a virus to and board member of the syrian purchase consortium. he's researched and advised extensively on international legal cases related to the conflict in syria. in washington, dc is roger lou phillips legal director of the syria justice and accountability center, which documents violations of human rights and international law in syria. and also in london, exclude helped me a syringe in less than human rights activist. she's a man, but the family's full freedom of movement of women whose relatives were detained and disappeared during the asset regime. welcome table abraham, i'm about to stop with you. people in syria want justice, understandably, and they want to quickly, how can you move quickly enough to stop that from becoming potentially violent retribution as well. the 1st thing is to be able to capitalize on the enormous evidence that has already been documented. i mean, as you said,

in your introduction, the kind of good part of what's been happening for the last 14 years is that certain civil side to international organizations, states or who have been key enough to hold the regina to accounts have been documenting extensively what's been going on, so when not starting from scratch, that, that's the 1st thing. the 2nd thing is to be able to sit amongst the authorities in damascus and, and to sit amongst ourselves as syria and actors. and be able to put some strategies together. um, all of us are kind of still in the state of happy shaw for what has happened and in syria over the last 10 days. and so now is the time to really get together and start strategizing. you know what to do next for the last 1014 years we've been looking for crux. a domestic case. hey, uh, you know, focusing on chemical weapons. only bad. just because, you know, there might be some motif to that. so not the crime of focusing on torture. only updates national court of justice because that's the only convention we could,

you know, hold syria to accounting. but all of a sudden a lot more opportunities present themselves. the evidence is that is national organizations that were created specifically for syria to document evidence and, and put the evidence for even even to all of the, all file for data like this on our own in the, in, in, in case. and so a lot of the investments and a lot of that the, the, the, the trauma and the pain, the suffering that the families of the does have given evidence over. busy last years is now in good shape to be able to move that process a hand. it would not be a i don't think in a, in a context like syria we have, we have something, you know, kind of an optimum justice. i don't think, you know, looking at the faces of gusts children no or those who lost loved. busy ones in prison, anything could be just this, but the ones we will do is make sure the perpetrators. busy comfortable mix or to have a narrative of what has happened so that no one in a couple of years time would say, oh no i said was great, look what happened to the country. now i'm some of the records that were pretty

hearing from so a lot of patients on full to me. roger time is of the essence then, isn't it? absolutely, and we have an enormous opportunity now to build upon the collections of evidence that has been uh, you know, received by civil society organizations. and to build upon that, there has been this veil of secrecy that the syrian government has operated within their been peaks behind that curtain during the last 12 years. and you've obtained a large number of syrian government documents, but i see what you're not more are now available. and we're in the process of collecting as much as possible to allow these transitional just as frameworks and mechanisms to work. uh, it will be uh, you know, essential for 1st the, the new syrian government to form itself to have a constitutional framework and then to establish a criminal code so that we can have a process of fair trials that proceed. i think that if the soon community is engaged and they, they're seen, they can see that

a collection process is going on. the preservation of the establishment of legal frameworks that they will see the, the wheels of justice and now turning. hello de rogers, just touched on the, on the process is the challenges that lie ahead in getting any trials on the way. but how people need to see justice being done, don't they? how do you persuade them to let the will far? which is do that unless of a proper process unfold. so i think the people now they are just looking forward to what is going to happen. but we have to bear in mind that some of these of the disappear people are really hurt at these days. they're lost, they don't know what to do. most of the mothers and the families were waiting for their loved ones. they were, they, there is story told when the prisons opened and they, they, everybody assumes including myself. but i'm going to say my brother when they

opened the prison. unfortunately, we haven't seen anyone. so happy for the limited numbers of people have received, released from prison. but until now we families are lost. we don't know if the documentations are going to be kept, or are we going to lose the documentation? and if they are killed by that a team when and how and the things that we see online because we've been bombarded assignment is up to disappear people by misinformation this information on like down the past 12 weeks. so families now in pain. and i'm not going to say that they get, they are as angry as they could take revenge on their own. now this is never gonna happen because they are just like either collapsing. same thing um, okay. and taking a moment now. all right, it for him. uh, i'm gonna stay many of the uh, in joseph said similar things, but honestly says,

this is in the who started the opportunity to address a horrifying catalogue of human rights violations, including attacks with the chemical weapons, bottled bombs and other war crimes, as well as murder torture and false disappearance at extermination, but amounts to crimes against humanity. where on a, do you begin? you know, i think this was part of the resumed strategy since day one to overload of about in the system. i. i think you know that the decision redeem has picked out every single crime. it's as if almost they've looked at, you know, the, the, the, the international criminal court, you know, list of crimes who decided to pick each and every one of them. it's very hard to find a crime in terms of the scale or in terms of the diverse too, in terms of the range that there was here. energy has not committed. but lucky to you, we did not accept to that. you know, the region will just overwhelmed the system to all of it, to kind of push us to an action, to make it unable, unable to move. we have been moving throughout the last 14 years and we will

continue. we will continue to move. um, obviously the, the, the range of crimes and the, and the magnitude of crumbs make a, make it hard to kind of prioritize make it hard to know where, where to focus on on this process will take time. and it will take a lot of consultations that will take a lot of engagement. but i think what we have a kind of united voice on is that we will not kind of forget and we will keep pushing. we have been pushing for us, the accountability, i gaze much more difficult on against, on a regina's being normalized regionally and internationally, i guess, to redeem that had the seat of the united nations and was bossing every asset. and against all these on the syrian act as they're in survivors in victims and associations and, and you. busy and you know, our allies within the international communities, which were not many i, you know, towards the end of the, of the time could kind of kept pushing to the issue, the issue on the table. so we will definitely not be overwhelmed by the range of crime is just a matter of time before we try and process what has happened and beyond the sort of

base to start the raja, even before the events of the last week i know your organization the syria, just as an accountability center, you've been collecting one over 2000000 pieces of documentation of the conflict conducting research already. but it does seem almost overwhelming in terms of the voting of crimes that need investigating how, how do you stopped and indeed it, there is a huge amount of criminality that took place over the last 12 years and even longer . i think we need to look at all of the above solutions and follow a clue that was provided by ukraine. example, the i, c, c, should be pursued as an opportunity. universal jurisdiction prosecutions can continue to move forward as they have to date. there will be a number of a former regime officials that end up in europe and could be subject to prosecution in the very near term, while syria is undertaking is process of creating legal frameworks to allow the

creation of a new mechanism that could have some international assistance and uh, identify the appropriate uh, personnel, judges and lawyers in order to staff the institution and, and proceed with the vast majority of cases. all right, well we'll come back to the mechanisms surely about how, how just this might be delivered, but salute. i mean, you've witnessed in your hometown of diet, the shootings, and the tensions of people, the status of the civil war. and your own brother. i've met how me was detained in 2012 and detained for 3 years. what it, what lessons have you learn from your own personal circumstances and what you've experienced as to how you believe people will get justice and should get justice of . first of all, it took us a long time to then the left and then within the hub, if i may say that i or 2 minutes ago i was in the,

i was in despair. i lost faith in hope and everything. but to do we are sad is gone now and we just stored hope. so we believe that the way to just this is going to be achieved one day and it's going to be near because it took effect and he has to tell people that a team. and now i think we need the 14 years to set them accountable. but we persist on setting them accountable, we will never lose face, even if somebody come to me now and he says like your brother was killed under torture or any way in his cell. i need somebody. and i need to bury all the my, to the people who are mounted by that a team in prisons. and we need the bodies of the missing persons, the ones that we don't know if they are alive or dead or taken by today, 2 forces, or any other forces. i know that we know that we do have legal support from our colleagues and from the organizations working on accountability in syria. but we so

the families will never settle until we achieve just the split overlooked once every. and we're not just talking about bush on our left side. all we were talking about is father, which will be about the 40000 people killed and hammer in 1982. there is a lot of justice, an investigation that needs to be done. isn't that? well, and yes, i mean i've, so do this has been an error or do you know 54 years and starting from from his, his, his father that died. but also the uncle with who is at all if we don't know exactly where, where he is now, he wasn't switch, then there was an arrest warrant against him present for the crimes who committed and come on. then he saw the trust huge in us odds ah, syria, we know we. ready be looking definitely for a lot of these individuals. and yes, it's a, it's a, it's a whole, a process of people and, you know, it's, it's enough for authors that is also very bureaucratic in the way it commits torture and, and commit these crimes. i mean,

looking at the pictures and the images that are coming out, these were orders given that they're keeping the names, they're keeping exactly, you know, what's happened to these other 2 to these individuals as an up it's, it's an industry, it's a, it's an industry by. busy means and there are people who are responsible for these, for the, for this industry. and obviously the search will continue and then all of them are alive. and i mean in the, in the, in a way, i, personally, i'm happy that they are alive in order to be able to watch and see 1st of all of a celebration that are taking place in damascus and other places with the phone of that redeem and how people are living under freedom in that sense and. busy so that they're seeing that there are a lot of us who will not trust the day until their health. uh to account in a way they know that political bargains happen. and if enough pressure is applied on those harboring them, they will be handed over and they will be found. and this is not something that we, we will give up on. we were not scared to do that during when the regime wasn't up most power. and how does embassies informants everywhere? i will definitely not stop now. so it's

a more convenient to national community do to help syria. now the country that doesn't really have an effective legal, would you additional system? it's over whelmed, perhaps by all of this, by all of these crimes committed. how does the international community help immediately? i mean, the 1st thing to do is to be able to all prioritize the issue of accountability and make it on the on, on the top or fall of the agenda is, you know, i'm, i know refugee return is important. i know there's an economic development isn't important, but we also need to see that just as an accountability is, is, is, uh, is on the page that is on the narrative as i is on the rhetoric and so far so good on, on that. the 2nd thing is to be able to engage with the syrians who have been leading these these assets for many years to kind of consult with them as to where and when they could come in the midst of these be international course of this be domestic chords. you know, this is this, there is not the 1st conflict and on the 1st conflict that had disagree that is complicit in the, in, in, in the crimes that the redeem has a, has committed there. so many different companies across the. busy world would that

we can done lessons from so there is a lot that need, that needs to be done, but keeping it on the table now, i think is an absolute priority and be full about priority of accountability. we have, we have the priority to, to talk about it, which is the idea of the missing and the idea of the mass graves and the idea of some sort of closure for that. but for the loved ones, i think that is extremely tiring, imperative before anything. so that's we can move in terms of like on to accountability and injustice. but there's a lot that the international community can do and it, and it should have started a week ago. we're seeing kind of states already kind of picking up the narrative and offering assistance where they, roger off people send decided to serious and people to the i, c, j all they to be tried in syria. how do you help syria cope with the, with the volume of people all the lessons we can learn from other uh, war crimes tribunals in recent decades? well, i think 1st of all, the basic 2 minute area needs need to be met. and

a big step in that regard will be to list sanctions against h t, as in against giovanni, so that the international community can give some c minutes, air and support food, water, electricity, other things need to be in place before you can have a meaningful system of justice, the, the triple i am, was created for the investigation and support for crimes that occurred in syria over the last 12 years. and so if there's a ready made you an institution that has some case files that have been developed, but pre eminent as he brings said that that needs to be the input of syrian organizations, the syrians within the diaspora that have worked tirelessly to build, you know, collections of evidence into support cases that have been moving forward in europe and uh at the i c j. so um, you know, the syrians need to be front and center leading this process. roger, you talk about lifting the, suggesting and lifting the tires, that designation on h t. s, but already in the last 48 hours or so republican us and democratic us senate,

as i said, it's too early to do that. but i think you're saying that really it needs to be done now before it's too late. well, and so far as it's preventing humanitarian assistance from going into syria, from engaging directly with the authorities there, i think we need to give a level a level of margin to the, the new syrian government so that they can be successful. if the there is a political reluctance to engage directly, then through intermediaries assistance must be provided. um, hello, do you see any value in pushing for the listing of the terrace designation of h t s, and it's obviously the ship. so i don't know how useful this is going to be, but i like as a like as a syrian citizen, i don't know if this is going to be for the good or not. maybe it's going to work

on kind of achieving some piece and settlement currently at this, at this level. but um, like we're still anticipating, i can't decide to be honest. okay, but we're a no, but those people who, i mean you're looking at those, potentially tens of thousands of people involved with working and the security operates as well. the syrian government, not everybody's going to get justice perhaps. do you want to see those people tried in syria or tried elsewhere? what sort of international help do you think she'll be brought to to, to syria and like at like, and i'm in the, the best scenario we need to see them childs in syria. and they said, and people will attend all the trials and see what they have done to the syrian people. but this is the dream. and i know now that dreams can be, can become true. and if not, then we will pursue it of outside. so this is, this is the how persisted in the families of the to separate people and how

persistent the serious and people were. and even aware support is from the international organizations, are regarding the syrian atrocities and violations committed by the seat and a g mainly. but also anybody else who was involved supporting and beginning i'm the only dis asked is that we have been through all over the past 1314 years on abraham, the international criminal tribunals, the ones b of a slob. you last week 24 years. a full 1000 plus witnesses, a $161.00 individuals sent in this one to 21 years. 62 people sentence. but then the volume of crimes pails in significance to what you might be looking at in syria. what lessons could you draw from those tribunals? if you look at what syria needs as well, i think that task, so give me feel ready, did learn. it's less than to not wait until after the conflict to start documenting or supporting documentation assets and that's already something that's been

happening since 2011 with the you and commission of inquiry. and then in 2016 with the um, with the trip and i am the, the dimensions and the dimensions and the stuff its role is to assist them in the prosecution of these, of these crimes. it's not a quote itself, but it was created for this day when courts might be be created so, so that, that's the 1st thing. the 2nd thing i think between you can log in. ready on that we also had all the comments being established domestically hybrid with international sup. busy and so. busy on, on, on all of the lessons went on that in terms of efficiency in terms of speed, in terms of access to victims on the and so on. but yes, it might, it might be, i think the process that i think it's, it is not necessarily a bad thing to have. i think the process where it allows people to see just is done . i don't think it's waste to just as in this, in this situation, or long just as is a binary. since you is a binary issue, we need to be able. ready to grieve, we need to we need to be able. ready to remember, we need to say that amount of evidence come out. this is about, you know,

every individual. busy of every family, every victim is for people to sit and watch a through this thing it's a, it's about applying pressure for. busy busy all these times and you know, we, we, when we, when we really cool because navea and roland done, certainly we called the recall the war crimes tribunal. but within that, implicitly we're recording that these were crime scenes. these were not just the conflicts that were of and that said, the fact that, you know, travino's were established. i took that long of a time. exactly as you set the amount of witnesses that, that, that is a reflection of the criminality of, of, of the regions that at that time. so in a way from a narrative perspective, from the remembrance perspective, from a, a, a due process perspective. you know, it's not necessarily about think full for justice to take its course, but again with no starting from scratch, we're starting with a huge amount of evidence. but where we're starting with a huge amount of resilience and persistence from the, from syrian men and women who, you know, throughout the use i've been pushing. and then i, i can only imagine what they would be doing now in terms of coming forward and,

and giving the statements and so on. oh, we're dealing with more experienced international committee. so overall, i am optimistic as to what would come next. but i think we need to get our act together. festival was through an active watch. busy this and to be able to sit together and figure out different strategies of how to move ahead. roger, and who do you prioritize when you're looking at to how to, how to bring cases. they'll be many people low down the wrong. so say they have no choice, it is not a defense as well for them, but who, who do concentrate on. so if you have to stop somewhat a hey, and indeed you do. but if you have a variety of mechanisms operating, then i don't think you have to make strict choices. i think the international tribunals are well suited to prosecuting the senior leaders in those most responsible. but they alone cannot obtain a comprehensive justice as you mention from the isaac you. why and i say to you are experiences to supplement those courts. there were domestic tribunals created that

in the i think the us lava situation, there was the bosnian war crimes court is created domestically, sort of a hybrid institution, prosecute in many more hundreds of cases and, and there will want to example, there are traditional justice measures pursued call to get charged for proceedings . and those of 100000 individuals would process through that uh, traditional, just as mechanism. and so i think for syria as well, we need to have a system whereby the highest level of senior leaders are prosecuted. and then also the mid level leaders, i think the decision was made by h t. s 2 grants and the amnesty to uh, the conscripts who were not in involved in killing of any syrians. and i think that's a reasonable decision to be made. but that leaves a huge number of individuals that could be subject to prosecution in the future. and the steering community needs to be engaged so that they can make those decisions. hello, just lastly with you. there is

a huge reckoning to come for syria as it prepares to look at the horrors of the past decades. how do you, how do you propose about how to syrians past that, that reckoning this to come to? okay, so for the, the groups of this, if i, if is if i may speak from this level are grouping together, they've been preparing themselves for a long time. all of them are working on documentation and taking care of each other, doing psycho social support for the families, and also making sure that we are all persistent, the ones who can hand up and continue the struggle. uh, to get the, i mean to get to the last point when everybody is going to be recognized and all the pain is going to be one, the way we are the bed. we've been working on this for a long time. we didn't have the hope that aside is going to to,

to be toppled down that quick or any time to be honest, but now it's all gone. and we didn't have a long past to go on. yeah. okay. awesome. well, thanks to all guests on good luck to well i guess to abraham a lobby to roger lu phillips and to flute help me and thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website. alger 0, adult. com. and for further discussion, go to a facebook page, that's facebook dot com, forward slash a j inside story. you can also draw on the conversation on x. i'm in super i'm. we are a inside story for me, furniture and the whole scene here by the, the schools of juvenile station 6th century and the arms of a branch of car. it looks as if it's the 1st thing with life. but look more closely

. the curls flinched living out the expelled from the hard sho, my high water temperatures. this is a marine environment that struck linked to somebody in april revolution temperature, as opposed to mass bleaching that hit 7070 percent of the world's carl rings. marine biologists here say that carl is not on the 14th to survive against the bleaching the high temperatures at the woodson. it's also fighting against pollution and mass taurus that that box is completed. so each week, and that's really cool though, a dedicated group of davis had been propagating carls to try and promote re, griggs, but that solution is just a drop in the ocean with so many of the wealth carls under the trends of extinction . despite on marine results may soon be lost for the

german durham. these are the top stories on al jazeera. southwestern and regional diplomats have met in jordan to discuss the serious future. they called for a peaceful and inclusive political transition. foreign ministers also demanded that israel pulls out of the militarize zone along with the syrian border. where is really soldiers are expanding their presence of the outside. this meeting has discussed the importance of serious suffering team to restore it with the tech retail. we have been clear in condemning ethan rios incursion into the demilitarized zone, violating the 1974 agreement. the continued.