the, the israel is shutting its embassy in ireland and choosing those governments of anti israel policies, doubling a strongly oppose the war on goes off and recognize, accomplished an instinct. it rejects israel's accusations and says that stands for human rights and international law. so what's behind this move and why now this is inside story, the hello and welcome to the program. i'm getting you navigate them. israel says that

it will close its embassy in ireland, accusing the governments of being anti israel, an anti semitic irish prime minister assignment harris. how strongly rejected the accusations. he says this country is pro peace pro human rights and pro international law. it comes just after ireland back south africa's genocide case of the international court of justice. and israel's ambassador has not been seen in dublin since may. when ireland said it would recognize the palestinian states along with spain on norway. so what's behind israel's decision and why now? we'll get to where i guess in a moment. first this reports from homes. i'm a how much it is right, is set to close its embassy in island. it follows dublin's decision to support some of the custom jenna said, case against is that right of the international court of justice last week? is there a heating, foreign minister gideon sought accused island of having what he called extreme on is really policies a view rejected by the irish prime minister. this is the,

the rateable. and i will push back very strongly against any attempt by any country to misrepresent art in spanish. are the desires on tedious writing. and but art it is absolutely and, and see the survey sion of children is absolutely empty, the killing of civilians and is upset 80 at pro peace and pro international law. and pro logic relations have not been said that either has been frequently attacked by israeli government. politicians for support of teens. w has been a strong critical if there is devastating vote on goods, which has no cause more than $45000.00 palestinians. this tobin last year, last month, after the international criminal court issued unrestored and full prime minister, been to bidding the thing know for ball crimes in guns. i definitely see that is that a leader, we'd be interested if he'd visited ireland as an inmate island alongside spain. and

always recognized by us, but as an independent state on leading is the right to call it's invoice from those countries. wonderful violence most senior former diplomats sees is an auction, could be seen as picking one island. in particular. the view is rivers chosen to close. it's m as in dog one, but not attend. this is in the drain. and also alex has worked in lock step with no worries, but, so there's something going on there. i mean, possibly, i think it's easier to pick on a small country. artist is more than able to sign up for it. so, is there any troops invaded southern lebanon in october? is there a quote on island, the you in to withdraw peacekeepers from the country, including irish troops, w rejected the request the same month. is there any forces i'll talk to you in a few positions. in 1980 island became the 1st you member state to quote, for self determination for the palestinian people. public support for the

understanding of course is deep conflicting long electronically identification with the applied metering century splunk, the an expulsion of people. island under petition which ended a century ago. i didn't see it through the move, but is there a un wants to maintain diplomatic ties with not positive growth? it's embassy. instead of you have them have the disease of what you said story. okay, let's not bringing our guests. joining us from dublin is that me hallmark donica who's a dublin city counselor of addition fame party and tel aviv ellen pink costs a former is really to pull not on writer and a member of ireland. zoe lawler, who was the chairperson of the ireland palestine solidarity campaign. thank you so much for your time. let me home a on a call start with you. what's your initial reaction to this? as well? many of us have been calling for the explosion of the israeli investor. not

particularly in the wake of the genocide lockson's, spouse is private and public stipend, kaiser. and for many months, we've made the call. so effectively, the israeli investor has expound herself this variety embassy is, is, is now closed. so anyhow, on one hand, it is, i suppose, attributed to. ready to the huge degree of saw the dark you that there is an art and with the palestinian people. ready you saw there in your parks and it's very extensive. we've had people on the streets almost on a monthly basis in their tens of thousands in solidarity with the people of palestine. so i had to move, i suppose, problems as no surprise. so it's a company which i've already started statement which not only occur. ready as far as the big options as far as the post anti semitic. and again, we say the misuse of this term by the israeli government. part of the criticism of

. ready right, is described as anti semitism, so it's a, it's a significant development. and very much in line though with what has been happening up to now at all just for the magic block norms. all international law respect for those clearly counts for nothing with the israeli government. okay, so we lawler, on the allegation of anti semitism. um so is that argument to have any basis in your opinion? the absolutely not. it's just us, me here on the, the irish days on the irish people at people, you're not motivated by racism. people here in most cases by wanting to stand with our palestinian sisters and brothers. and we're motivated by not wanting genocide to go on and really at the notion that, that this would be the, the root cause supply. and you know, the irish government has taken any of the steps it has or that quite people here is

done that solidarity with the process and even people. it's just absolutely untrue . and it is a smear on people here. we have a long standing solidarity with palestine the night and a lot of it comes from our own history of being colonized and oppressed understanding with the recognizing mass and standing with colonized people. but it's well, like millions of people out of the world, do you kind of be seeing what we're seeing every day happening over palestine and particularly in gaza and not be moved to try and do anything you can to end at what's being done. okay alan, think us, um, is there support for this and telling me where you are and why do you think that israel is doing this? i mean, is it for domestic political consumption, or is it sending a message to the international community for any other country that could be thinking of doing the same as ireland did, which is backing south africa as genocide case of the i c j. so is really sending a message from now saying, don't do it. oh yeah, the messages don't do it. but the,

the pretext obviously and the reasons for this is just reckless political grandstanding and pondering by a newly appointed, entirely inexperienced foreign minister whose idea of diplomacy is to shut down an embassy. the question is not whether or not irish policy, sabina energy is really by, it's really standards. they have been empties really and they, they in no way have been anti semitic. and i totally agree with missile over here. but the question is, if, if this is, you know, this is the bravado the run both by the on 3 of the chest diplomacy and why hasn't israel done this to spain or to norway as um, you know, the, uh, picking on ireland is, is easy. it's relatively cost free. it's an e u member. yeah, it's not a nato member so, so in terms of, of being

a cautious and grand standing at the same time, it serves its uh, its purpose. now, whether or not this is, this is a sign of things to come. i doubt that very much. i mean, let's, i really dare this government do the same to friends, to britain, to germany, to italy, to norway, to spain, or to any other bigger country in the u. then ireland is better. so let me clear the israel has taken steps towards some of these countries, like for example, norway. okay. it didn't go to the lens, it has with ireland, but it did expel a diplomats a at a point in time just a few months ago. well, yeah, that you're absolutely correct uh during but, but the, uh, the, the differences. uh, and the pretext that is officially being employed here are being stated here. it's not ireland policies per se, but the fact of ireland quote, unquote intervene meaning joins south africa's petition to the international court of justice accusing israel genocide,

that according to the foreign minister and according to the official statement, was a uh, quote on quote, the uh, red line that israel will not tolerate when it is cross and but, but honestly, i mean, i understand the, uh, the anger, i understand why people are raising their eyebrows. it was just a little grand standing up there of the most recklessly, stupid kind. but it is just grandstand. okay, me ho. this was the statement that was issued by the iris for administer. this is part of it. he says that i believe firmly and the importance of maintaining diplomatic channels of communication and regret that this decision has been taken. so does this mean that orland then will continue having diplomatic relations with israel despite it now supporting the the i c j case which accuses israel of committing genocide and, and why does islands want relations as well? i mean, obviously i'm not as folks, right. and for the ours government, but from their point of view,

they have taken the line that's diplomatic. shadows should remain open. but at the same time, they have a strongly opposed bucket is right. is doing in guys a 100 in palestine a as a whole. and they would see it on our school systems. many of us would, would have had the case that the case, the brakes. and we have to provide ties because is right, has gone so far beyond honey concept of international law or human rights. right. you're minus he and so that's the context of us. i take the, the actions of the irish government, but being relatively restrained, when you consider the degree of support there is in new orleans across the political spectrum of the far palestine. and so many people have called for the irish government to go much further than they have, for example,

the occupied territories. bill is a piece of legislation which has been in our power of it, but has not been progressed by government. and this would, by trade with today is right as a legal sacraments. unfortunately, up to now, the government has started stuff started the station. and although now there are signs coming out of our recent general election where park is made commitments to support that bill. there are signs that that will be progressed, which would be very welcome and the same day, it may also be another reason why add you as far as the government has taken this decision, because there is the prospect of that legislation being passed in the irish pilot zoe, to what extent do you think that that issue of the the, the bill that was just being mentioned has been a points of contention. and also just recently, the irish prime minister said that the, the of, or these would be detaining benjamin netanyahu. if you arrived in ireland, that is,

of course, down to the international criminal court, issuing an arrest warrant for him. so how would you describe the relationship between is really an iron recently and whether tensions have been escalating and well, i suppose tensions have been escalator and it's always been a bit for us both at the end of the day as me homesteads. we've long calls for the irish government to cost all size a diplomatic ties with this rent. we want them to announce the legislation the occupied territories bill give to other bills and the legal is very sacraments divestment ban on the arms embargo bands. and so we want the government to go further and it's measures and, and i do think that it's possible that they do because they haven't said that they would not be occupied territories, build a pending review. it is possible that this is one of the reasons at that this sabre rattling ask from the israeli government is going on. and so we disagree that

they, the diplomatic, a ton of should be kept up with this, right? because really the island and me on my own and said the other day about the genocide case that they once brought in the definition of a genocide at the i c, j a in order to end the culture of immunity. but the higher stage is part of the culture of the into using that has enabled these roads to commit the kinds that it permits daily against palestinians. so we would very much call for meaningful action for sanctions that means rand fernandez at for irish trade, especially still use trades with these rarely states. i mean, you say uh you as well as me, whole say that you'd like the iris government to go further. what would you like them to do? because if you listen to some politicians, they say, look, we have recognize the state of palestine. we've increased funding to owner at a time when a lot of countries have withdrawn their funding. we're so now supporting south africa's genocide case against israel. so what does it that's missing for you?

as again, as i said, it's those 3 pieces of legislation. so they would go some way towards holding israel to account for what it's doing to the city of people. and if there were transactions on this read as well, that would be meaningful. we have bad news trades that are doing it straight. it is, or it has actually increased in the last year and we have multiple reports of this really weapons going through iris aerospace. so that has to end as we allow the irish stage allows the u. s. military to use china and airports and the us know that she is a full and active partner in this genocide, so that you then say immediately as a whole diplomatic ties to because so again, uh, you know, the bare minimum is not an else, especially given what we're witnessing in, in gaza right now. so that's why why congress beating for mattress from the irish government to sanction is that okay, um alan,

think us look diplomatic relations exists between countries despite serious differences, right. i mean when you're looking at russia still has to put matic relations with countries like the u. k. and us despite their differences, of course, when it comes to the ukraine war. so israel is now saying though it wants to open an embassy in moldova, instead saying it has friendly relations, then with ireland. so what does that signal to you and does it merely wish to have relations with countries that agree with it politically? well yeah there, there is an argument that says that is what is yours doing is with an icing diplomacy as if what the nice thing diplomacy has existed as all is as old as diplomacy itself. but it's always been webinar us. does it brought you have? does it britain because the china doesn't, everyone's to be so in that respect announcing that we're shutting down, shutting down the operation is the embassy in iron, but open a one in moldova is this is part of that grandstanding that i referred to uh

earlier but, but but here's the thing to read. i, i have nothing sympathetic to say about iris policies like i condemn and criticize my government 24 hours, 7 days a week. but that's not the point. the point is, how do you conduct diplomatic relations if you shut down embassies in countries that you disagree with them, then most countries will not have. uh, i, you know, with the exception of, um, perhaps switzerland, them and one other. most countries will shut down half the embassies of the of half the work that is, that is anathema to diplomacy, which is why i think this move is silly. you need to engage the irish. you need to engage the to other, get some of these bottle, and explain to them why you think they are low, where you think they are right. and what is the common ground? shutting down an embassy. that's that's, that's a silly,

stupid counterproductive move. oh okay, well i'll in the, i mean that is the headline right now, but behind closed doors and as a former diplomat yourself, do you think that there are more sort of measured conversations taking place right now behind closed doors? what could be going on? what you mean, where in these early governments, right? no, no, no, no, no, this is, this is uh, you know, this is a decision that was made for domestic political consumption. most specifically, uh, buying a new foreign minister who left that time you. i was 45 years ago and now returned um is some kind of a submissive uh hands made and wants to prove his words and his new loyalty to the uh, to the po. so he's trying to prove vanessa now that he's just as cap, they to bar the expressions on the iris. he's just as catholic as he is. i don't think there is any. uh, uh, you know, sinister idea of being devised here. i don't think any want to say, but,

but you do have to bear in mind one thing during this, you know, i keep on referring to the foreign minister. this is decision that was not made without the prime int. he absolutely knew about this. i am sure that he is ireland tries to and that would be understandable to escalate this statements. to report, create an attorney, i will take his case to his soul mates donald trump and try to convince him that ireland is a problem and that the us did rep for man, ireland. and i wouldn't be surprised if he's doing that as we speak. but in terms of your question, whether this is a uh, you know, a grand strategy some, some definitely ingenious plan to change the, the congress of his real democracy. now, it's just a grand standing silly motion. okay, me haul you were mentioning earlier on why that you you think that not enough is being done for the palestinian people on behalf of the politicians in ireland. why

do you think that as well as the zoe, i said, we need to see the and it's up the occupied territories belt. we need to see trade sanctions. so right. but my question is, i mean, what is stopping all of this from going ahead as well? um the but the, the government so far the actions that have taken has because large, you've been pushed by public opinion. it's very much brought up round up, round swell of opinion at har asked what the authority stage is doing to the palestinians. and that has pushed the irish department to the extent of it has a taking these actions. so that's, that's really what is required for their pressure to, to do that. and it should be mentioned off of the u context. we've highlighted here this part in spain, a norway partridge, that the recognition that the palestinian stays,

meaning that this highlights the an action whether the use states and in fact, worse than an action there, as the park at 40 is right. he stays through all this hard road that we're seeing. and that is that that's something that really needs to be res, strongly within the you, by the irish government. that's it cannot be tolerated. task the you worse than standing idly by the menu. your countries are act, actively supporting, act is ready stage in this war. so that would be a very, very important role on a, on a very positive start was made by, uh they have the iris state working together with spain, arms, norway, um and as has been said, it's significant that it's hard and best is picked in terms of closing the i'm to say because word it easy targets because the consequences may be less,

as are seen as less serious parties right back if she said the give it to be as read her target. the other 2 states, just very briefly, me whole, i mean, besides putting out the statement, do you think the iris government itself will be taking any action as well? um they have spoken strongly uh, refusing bucks, but the is ready to go from the test that i hope this will spar them on. now to enact the occupied cartridge belts, i think that would be a high priority. and as i said, there are 2 with 2 res, so to raise this again, that'd be you level so that there is more concern to the auction. the but the, you, there's the is right of cars. there's a, especially the park, there is a special trading relationship with you, which should not continue. we have state monumental prophecy of that widespread sanctions on rights the so again, it's russia for the invasion,

continuing war again, some frame. yes. the, the complete opposite is happening with this right out of the you. pace and square is right is supplied her up by our every needs and by the countries. and by the us is the way there is an argument. i wonder what if you can react to this? that's ireland has done everything over the past few years to make itself attractive to sort of large multi nationals and it has a low corporate tax rates, right. so there's the american chamber of commerce that is also named ireland as quote, the global location of choice for talents and innovation. so that's economic dependency . uh, by orleans on the united states. some what does that hinder our lives, ability and willingness to stand with the palestinians as much as you'd like the country to spend with the palestinians isn't worried about us pressure. hey, probably be worried about pressure. um i personally don't. i think that's

a smoke screen because i think corporations act in their own financial interest stands in that interest of morality. so i don't think and the irish days, if the attack system stay the same, i don't think they would be running away from ireland. but i think that might be something that the government likes to, you know, put out there as a, as an excuse for not taking action. and there's a part of the irish government that likes to be seen as the best, you know, the best in class, not rocking the goals we did invest as a new level. and with the us as especially the boss, i don't think corporate interest terabytes and ethics as, as low as so i don't think that's about it as so really they should. you don't think that arlen does have a balancing act to play with the united states, and especially now with trump in the white house, who of course is a supporter of israel and israel's policies. possibly as a, a political level. and i don't think in terms of the corporations, as he mentioned,

the bus, you know, why do we just stand up to us and, you know, take the lead here and, you know, do what the people want is new upset. it's the huge pressure from the maastricht mobilizations that we've had all over the country for 14 months and weekly, monthly, and as a national level. and the government should be reflecting the way of the people and not be worried about us. you know, i watch another other good other politicians think about us i'm, i'm really just stand up and do the writing. allen, how, how do you think this is all going to play out as well? that does, that obviously depends on how the war is going to play. so once it ends, once there's some kind of a resolution that takes care of israel's presence in gaza, which i'm not the predicting will be any time soon. at that point, quietly,

israel will reopen the embassy, and the basset, or will be re appointed or pointed. and all is going to, i mean, unless, unless there is a 2nd possibility that in the next 23 months is yours. going to do the same with another country in the i wouldn't advise israel to do so. i hope they don't. but um they've surprise me negatively so many times in the last few years. so nothing you know, nothing will come as a uh shop in this respect i think it will wind down but, but um, you know, with the, i see see um a rest lawrence already issued a t i c j deliver ations fall and all right. um you never aware the next um challenge is going to come so i don't see that i don't necessarily see this being resolved but in the next few months, but i don't necessarily equally so i do not necessarily see it being escalated,

certainly not by lot for the is there, let me just bring in me, hold for a final word for you from you for, for dublin, tell us how the jewish community is seeing all of this where you are and how supportive are they off this? nothing. yeah. who government well, i mean like any other community, there would be a variety of views in the jewish community in the face of the organization, which claims to speak for the jewish people here would be quite pro is already bought. there are also jewish people inviting much involved in the campaign and sort of directly with the palestinian paper. i'm you know, how do i, i think this reflects the re, obviously not only an art in but across the world in terms of the jewish community . as i said earlier, they don't, it's, it's huge say at damaging dots. it is right. and these really government what

characterize any opposition to those policies against the palestinians as anti semitic? because that simply undermines the campaign against racism and audits, fobs it undermine, assess the whole concept and see if it has no credibility whatsoever. so, so that, that is the context for this. but yeah, thank you so much. we'll have to leave it there. thanks to our guest meal and looked on a hi. thank you. allen, pink cousin, zoe. laura lawler. thank you for joining us. thanks for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website out to 0. com for further discussion and go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash a j inside story. you can join the conversation on x r handle is a inside story from myself and the whole team here in delphi. thanks for watching. and by the, in the humanitarian crisis and lebanon calls for immediate

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the, [000:00:00;00] the time carries on. so this is a new sounds like from coming up the next 16 minutes. syria is new leader tells, i'll just say a raise a ministrations not to attract closer. international help to rebuild his country and how the mass graves on covered in syria. we hear from an active it's too expensive. somebody is running as tried to target northern garza or the desk told