to good people steer from the united states from russia, from india, from germany. ready findings for the idea of israel's foreign army on it. just yeah, that's all i could say. thank for that. she wants india to expedite for the private, especially casino for crimes against humanity of other offences. she fled in full good stuff to a popular uprising ended have 15 years. so one of the chances that she'll face justice cove, this is inside story, the hello welcome to the program, i'm adrian. second one's the most powerful person in bangladesh. shake. i've seen a is now a wanted women exiled in india since august of the huge process ended her 15 years

in panama. an expedition request 6, the return of the 77 year old. so what it says is, judicial process. she faces numerous charges, including crimes against humanity and genocide. i'm mother, all of which she denies. thousands were killed or injured and a cracked um before she fled. many were left with a life changing injuries, including blindness. widespread corruption of human rights abuses, including false disappearances in detention occurred during her rule for son is led to her defense on facebook saying that the extradition request is part of a which fund of hundreds of lawyers to been killed since she was ousted. meanwhile, human rights watch says the foreign governments will continue to shelter. huh. along with a full but cabinet ministers, unless bangladesh abolishes the death penalty. so what might happen next? what are the consequences, whatever unfolds for both bangladesh and india? we'll discuss all of that with, i guess shortly, but 1st

a report from san or go. the natalie july correspond to the dash students took to the street. they were city protests against the quote to system. the government jolts. things quickly. tom simon, please open for the internet with shuttle for the days countless people were killed . and so the stock of a nationwide movement, unmatched cooling for the resignation of prime minister shape, se not all the ministers are then housing, but just wait and see how the people will go into around the prime ministers house . there's a casino, doesn't resign voluntarily. we have no choice but to take our next step. by august, full casino was gone. she fled to india on a military plane seeking exxon once held as a pro democracy lead. she's now facing a rest to the north coast of the shop in the interest of

a thorough investigation. we applied for an arrest warrant. the court accepted our petition and ordered the arrest of former prime ministers. j casino has seen that has been accused of a litany of crimes during have 15 years of power ranging from corruption to human rights violations and bangladesh. she starts, he's according that extradition nobel peace nor yet. mohammed eunice is now the interim leader. he says he's doing what he can to right the wrongs of the past. and he has met the families of victims of enforce disappearances. unbelievable. how can a human being do these things to another human being? thought until she casino sent back to bangladesh. many say they'll continue to demand justice. sorry, give out a 0. the inside story. that's

bringing a guess. so here the nice thing is a senior research fellow at the institute of development studies at the university of sussex. you joins us from dr. sweetwater data is professor of international affairs o. p gentle global university. she joins us from co kata. and should he unhook his co founder of not a poco, which advocates for women's rights in bangladesh and she joins us also from taca. won't welcome to you will throughout it, i want to stop with you. how will india respond to bangladesh as requests for the return of shakes? i see that it puts permit us to load into what, what could bind, doesn't it? absolutely. it's not going to be an easy process. i can certainly see that in any case expedition nice is that all is very, very going to get to in this case, even just stuffing in there. this just seemed a little cool, but which is really and protecting model, one of the, you know,

proud initial steps to learn 0 more real dance to provide a good rest of there hasn't been any longer and which has been changed when i saw that one of the basic conditions i p also the, you know, extradition cheating the indian by the dish. that's fine. but also the conditions have got yes on the be so beach and you have a bunch of good just use in the system in. but if you go to the high side, why don't we just part of the issue? and the circuitry is what i mean, she has the model the longest. so the problem in the service organization and you know, a lot of the stage of what also there are many grants and like the seeing how, oh, is there the feeling that she won't be in the justice system? this is going to be unfair to, would you either this pointed out that you need to process or something back to both in the, on the problem is the hosting from apartment associate go see. now the reason is that it will not be a charity then. uh, you know,

the boss is not here to not be funded. so there may such conditions on beach the uh you want to be plans, but again, even the very street got out exhibition request on august, seeing the farm and the call to get shows that they got the stations they do do show the nation was and i guess teams from both sides would be very much engaged to understand them. you know, i'm driving to the point, but i do begin by saying that it's not going to get easy shutting. uh, you know, okay, so it's a little difficult to get an update for sure. so how do you agree with that? what are the challenges? do you think of a shake? i've seen that being returned to bangladesh. well, under the 2013 extradition treaty varies, article time with post 3 to and that gives the space for india to refuse their request. it's about generally in solution 3 teeth have clauses that allow the country to refuse to send people back. if there's be a that the justice process will not be followed, 8 won't be fast or the process will not be followed. so i guess it's

a for the international crimes. i tried with them that was set up in 2010 bucks. dash the key issue here is to ensure the. 0 standards are met in terms of international norms that are set and the rules about evidence that's presented our process is got will be fully um, but in terms of predicting what they do, i will do. that's hard to tell. this will mean the government that can tell us what it was. what exactly. so hannah, is she accused of in bangladesh once you get a fair trial, oh yes. it is up to the up to the international crimes. try going on to ensure that processor, etc. and, and photos i, it's hard to say are for me to personally saying what will happen in terms of the process itself as a citizen, i would hope that the trial will be free. and partly because we're trying to establish a democratic society. there are many charges against the former prime minister,

and that includes crimes against humanity as your report shows. uh some of it is about genocide. some of it does some of the charges around corruption inside giving us money. so it's about what not only happened during the july uprising, but also what happened during her 10 or 15 years ago. shooting how credible is the tribunals that is dealing with the charges against the is the, as some alleges on facebook, a political which on against her and city, a members of her policy. you know, i run equally. this ready tribunal became contributions during i've seen after g this because of the number of reasons, but this was never picking up by the government due to the team. so it's ironic that she is not going to face this type enough. but we also that the type in

a really a job due process and provide free and federal but it is um set to on the other hand, i don't agree with the political with tons of language because one of the things we saw when the time we know became controversial in 2013 or 14. i can't remember is that we had an uprising off the young people and political supporters of the regime in which is called the shop i square. and that was actually calling for blood, perhaps not seen any such thing happen. yeah. there's no big as gatherings calling for blood or vengeance. so i hope this is going to be different. i hope if you need different than that in the really in fact i'm i by, by the expedition request as it had done in the bus. you know, one of the accused of the sake would you give me what the expedited by india i've

been legit. so there is the president the off expedition and as human rights watts has pointed out, that because of that been empty, they will not swatches actually after monitoring them on the death penalty. so this is something for the government to them to the i am personally against the death penalty in any case, no matter how give us the time job. so i would love that that's definitely not big enough to stick with what she needs to. she needs some, she needs to face to investigate. surely, we will come back to that issue of the death penalty and in a little while, but, but picking up on something else that you were saying. the shake casino herself is also called for an investigation, alleging that many of the depths that occurred during her tenea may have involved all those be on the security agencies. you think about argument, then there's some credibility to that. i don't think so, but i sent it to me, but

a, for example, the commission on enforce disappeared in so it has come under this report, and it actually implicates india loving making complicit with some of the enforce expenses. so how much ahead of food you get from the india on makes it, they shouldn't request and i'm too big to assume the testers process. i'm not you swear out a reminder of who shakes? i've seen it is and how she came to pass in bangladesh and to dominate its politics for so long. interesting to again, you know, i'm 2006. the government was suppressed and done, which is a, b, and b left of one big problem is to kind of busy and then time shouldn't have the bottle. okay. take a government document again, so strongly introduced and the constitution just to ensure and support the election commission before the cnn election. now back to the system that you go into the actually, and this was the request of the big. but unfortunately,

every political leader got to paint it. um, sort of being b, um it was back to the time then, you know, the system kind of collapsed and the, so it's all good to go to google for almost uh, less than 2 years. but it was a federal government that somebody had the backing of the army. so finally, and that's who we should have been hand them end of 2006, finding the gold and in december 2008, she could see and that came to fall or with the not just majority that you never seen with the highest water still not on the sheets along the dish. so when she to go on, i'm done with it. clearly the are most they have done nation was, will be for a box after that recently saw her, she also brought in some very positive changes with the boss fusion of but she to go with the government saying that the government now was in a position to board fiances elections and need to know when the defaults have put

a commission in place for me to examine. it. will have suggested that the government is not in a place to go to bed, but the next 2 dogs may be busy and then get the holding fee and trigger next. but of course, she didn't speak to them back to us in subjection and she decided to go away with the doctors and the problem started on traveling. so 2014, the opposition bought the live, but it'd be in the houston office again election saying that the to have the fee and fair under the, you know, the, the league and you know, in and this is the, this, the message really deep. but the so you can even deem that it's very difficult for the one to convince the bundle and fee and election. so the future, i mean the game in a stand off on 2014. so i'm trying to eat and find really, again, oh, you know, cyber like $70.00 less and you know, societies that the society, well it would cost when b and b to be part of the next door. the get to the one who is

a sports new address store. ready the internet started the election, got been and things are going fine. but unfortunately, all the morning, but the length of the big. so most people will then talk to what they, what, what i'm able to, because on the, the, the, maybe the workers have the cost in, you know, watch for everyone. so the being here for 2nd, no space here at all, or they were completely on that. but, you know, just even before the, the was over there, i'm already declared its own position and they had told, we'll schedule, it's always in the bottom into them says buying a few other numbers. so again, 2018 was a very, very one sided. it was clear need being there was the night before, 3 train the coming that but what did you say? i said that because they did an election activity. it happened the night before, but then the board people are still wanting to be

going to cost a lot to they were trying to make that happen before you actually took the book. so don't calling them 24. don't be lecturing the game on the same issue. with that being he wasn't very happy with the, you know, the electronic gotten did was on and how the process was created. the one site and also just before the elections, they'll be and people's into minds about fighting all for i think what them causing me if you will, because we're interested, withdrawn, you know, inside on several of the charges. and i'm really fond of really jimmy, as we all finding all the to go see a little bit older. how many lead members, i'm phone people to be bought these almost overnight. so i got to look that they've, i've already, you know, i mean, i'm sorry to get to interrupt you, but time is tied here. well, i'm gonna get as many views and as possible here. so hey, la reminders, what life was like for bangladesh, for ordinary bangladesh, she's under shake, has seen as rule and how life has changed for people since august. a life

has changed in many different ways. un, under shape because he knows rule. we saw it cannot be gross, but we also saw any quality rising. so he saw a fall on a absolutely poverty. but he also saw stresses. and he's, you saw basically people but transient property that is people going in and out of poverty quite a lot. and called it created a lot of different stresses in terms of our been informal workers are losing jobs. it also created stresses in terms of the price of the cost of living prices that happen. both cobit, you see the stress in terms of what's happening with the banking system. what that means is that weren't resolved, hadn't fallen, and we are facing and crisis that. and we have gotten those from ins and other institutions. but what that means is austerity is coming and we have to pay back with the fragile economic situation that part from the economy in terms of human

rights issues and what was happening to political, who by the civil liberties. if you think about the digital security act that was replaced by the cyber security act for the actors and civil society organizations, space was very limited for common people. been to come out and engage with the government. so that kind of space to defense was being limited. and then you also see the rise in violence against women that was happening despite know as being pos, that means that laws were not being implemented. so you had a battery to picked up from after transition. of course, economics stresses, are still there, stability being our make key issue and how do we ensure that the public doesn't increase is going to be concerned. the government is taking measures, but it needs to take more modern servers in that area in terms of the questions of what kind of governance reforms to be want. there are reform commissions that have been set up is seen as the member of the women's commission. they are looking at to

different issues. i'm trying to think through what are the key steps that need to be taken. but the list is very long in terms of what you do to, to bring about the rule of law, but also around justice and accountability in terms of the issues that we're touching on now. so the challenges, what for you fired eyes and ensuring that people get to talk about things. the big changes people are speaking out. i'm just speaking out without fear of stage reprice. that is the biggest change sharing. what do you think or re, bangladesh he's want, want to happen now as they struggle with a high cost of living, how important to people to people out of things like justice and accountability and kind of the interim governing to meet the expectations of the people. what, what should be dealt with now, and what should be left for an elected government to deal with the high cost of living and they need a big concern. and that isn't causing a lot of retina happiness, especially food range and the ability to food items. the prices of other food items,

but i think the issue of reforms is also very high of the agenda. and before i was just take time, it would not be the lot happened over night. the commission seems to be the reform proposals in the they've been given 90 days. my commission is uh, started late. so it would be probably february been resubmit dog recommendations, but ultimately it is the next elective government that has to get the of the reforms. so this is a question of as to how much can be achieved during the game government period. we are not even sure what was the duration of been getting government period, but to do that, to me then the end of next year. so we'll, we'll have to wait and see. okay, sorry about that. what was india's role in keeping shake and seeing an impala what's where it's motivation is for doing so. and how have relations between india and bangladesh changed since august. the for best of all was

it's certainly not changed or better because um, she could see none of them really as all these work, but even within their and ever since this 2009 generally when she took over the one thing that you address today you know, most people's investigating concerns we have seen in the boss, tulsa, you know, some governments and bundle dish of both and on state back design state. that is, how often use the antenna. uh, you know, sense of security of various thoughts including a lot of those defined space in the bottom of the song, gabrielle turned in the activities. so this will solve the machine pressing the address to the low comprehensively. but that was the beginning of the kind of difficult piece of relationship, but the 2 definitely locked in terms of a partnership in terms of the cost of what the facilities of the ideal stick does that they are working on duty. and of course, as i said, there's a historically on the relationship, you know, right? somebody you going to happen to him on the spot beside the bed? does the no opposition has also been bubbling up before?

we've seen that in them being the could never find them together. there was one particular phase and there was trying to look at energy to look at various other 10 deals which never really worked on. but so we bought that additional that there was being very, you know, some water for us, so have been lost, 50 the us. so why are these domestic uses? well, you know, being brought out the men who are noticing in, you know, of course we're very happy with the, the bottom, not the, the relationship was probably say there's absolutely no, don't anybody's mind whether, you know, issues of transit, several other issues which no other government kind of addressed the way it would do. um, you know, 1st thing was done by rub this the why there has to be no kind of football clear perception back to much of the agreement as well. and then just say, well, i actually quite strongly feel that it was a similar to the agreements has including crossed the for some of these draws. it does look both ways. so both of you know, and there was a stream, the highest number of these as you know, the global word,

a to bottom to the she's on medical tourism, another tourism. so there was the kind of interdependence which was doing clearly auto dot roll from since august. and so in, in does view is i'm going to force is the exit boss issue body. and clearly i haven't been able to pick up that kind of putting them in the shop though. so here's what role to bangladesh is on the play in keeping shake. i've seen that in pilot, i'm in her essential, down, full and on. what's it going to take for people in bangladesh to trust the security forces again? oh, let me clarify there. it's not necessarily vase army, i think you're talking about the role of the police and the rapid action between man during the july quote this, right? so in a sense, the police on rapid action, but to me and was used to the past,

but protests are they haven't used before. and there has been concerns around that sort of the all the decides based on these forces and how they're used to repress opponents. i'm so pose transition. what we have seen is, of course, changes within these forces in terms of transfers, changes on top of the cells. but what we have also seen is a discussion on how do you reform these agencies. we have also seen in the past few weeks of the new had so these agencies apologizing for the past actions. this is something that has not happened before, but it's been quite a substantial reform. so it's not just sort of there were discussions on changes in uniform and thinking about institutional changes in terms of salary. yeah. and sort of how'd you sort of have you in institutionalized search and, um,

how within these are agencies, but it needs to go beyond that in terms of not just probably be acknowledging about pot past vaccines. but there are questions about of the shows who are responsible for specific actions and what happens around that. so there has to be some form, i guess, of truth and reconciliation. and again, this sounds and also there are 2 models among public about measures taken against those lot responsible for specific actions and investigation. so we'll, we are going to see what happens. i'm sure and coming back to the point you made earlier about the death penalty, bangladesh, once india, to extra lights, a shake of c, that's the crimes against humanity. but as human rights watch, the sit at a if any foreign government, the sheltering she can see that will be unwilling to return her to face trial. as long as the death penalty remains in place. should bangladesh a polish it issue, a moratorium and a guarantee, a fair trial i am against

a death and mc pa sit and i'm just monitoring. yeah. but of course, in this, at this time, in order to get to take a few now back and then into the dust as close as. yeah. if that is what is required, the monitor audio, if we can deal with the lights on the basis of the dirty and then met, then i wouldn't support the monitor. yeah. but i am for up to the religion of the 70, but i just want to go back and dizzy bit daughter she'd i that would say, i think that everybody in point of view, the public perception here is that what's happening up uh, provided in the was very one site that we have, but the killings frequently that i've not, india has done nothing about. there's a lot of anger about that. then on the whole issue of transit and john shipment, it's fun to pants. absolutely. india has drawn to them drug treatment to bind with districts eastern states to the 7 eastern states, which of the newest, in this cross heavy from having to go all over from the top enough. um.

but what we have gotten in the time is not paying almost nothing. and so this is something that makes people very angry. so same thing has happened with the affinity of the water being taken out and that they need to go. so there is a lot of happiness about the one sided relationship that has enough to send me a day to read my list as gabe and be able to do but not paying the debt from india . so i would not understand that. so um i would, i would basically say that, that, that the anger of a very nice uh phase. okay. because not only it has the, not many um really doesn't function. and the other one final question too. so halo of bangladesh, at least there's a little band as the shooting of a saying, but i'm thinking that that she's at least more hopeful now for the future. what is

the mood of the people right now? what is cautiously optimistic, they know that there are lots of challenges and these challenges are not easy. you haven't no one challenges. you have the challenge of reform. you fired from shipping, that obviously you will take time. there is optimism around the fact that we are able to see how we think and also we trust people generally trust the insured investment in terms of their personal integrity. but also that reform commissions will do a good job. but there are also expectations from the entering document in terms of what it prioritize is. and also you need to, i log him on different groups in the society as to what to prioritize when and engage with citizens of different levels. it's about whether we are able to hold those dialogues and have a transferring process because democracy is not just about formal rules at

elections. it's all. * by the, those dialogues across the difference is and whether it be sustain those norms and, and has patience. that's where our challenge lies. but b r holz, and that is why we must send it any thanks indeed to you also have an as needed. so we brought it up to and should be in a hook, and thank you for watching. so you can see the program again at any time by going to the website out to 0 dot com. for further discussion, join us about facebook page. you'll find that at facebook dot com forward slash h a inside story out. of course, you can join this conversation on x on handle. that is a j inside story from be a very and for the good of a team. here though, i'll see you again. i forgot the i'm counting, the cost of global trade is transforming wide power to move for the goods across the board as be we shaped in the future. to terrace likes on to the 2nd,

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