a series of legends, some clothes ruins. the stories of civilizations that mark the history. one is where the story of vanity have many stories to tell. the lifting sanctions in syria will depend on how its political future develops. that's the message come from some japanese foreign ministers to the countries, new legions, sort of upsides one from each other and what divides them. this is inside story, the hello welcome to the program, omni bach. only a month ago, no one could have imagined the french and german foreign ministers visiting syria.

we took them on once linked to al qaeda and wanted by the united states with a $10000000.00 bounty on his head. and that's exactly what happened on friday. for my present, the charlotte side has gone the mine now in charge of all charlotte is no longer wanted by the us greeting gemini and from his top diplomats in damascus. little of any substance a much except perhaps the big difference is between both sides. so you're desperately needs money to rebuild, but also the freedom to develop as a sovereign state, you will be in business told the host of much depends on the political shape and direction the new syria takes both represent strongly, pro is ready countries and the u. s. remains of the allies as well throughout the cause of genocide. and as it's launched, hundreds of attacks on syria. so what does you want from syria of syria, from europe in the time? and how much influence might your actually have with series new leaders?

las called guest, this lots more and a few moments, but 1st the support from solver go. this is 2nd day, a prison with thousands of syrians with detained, tortured, and killed. under the regime of the shot, i lost that it's viewed globally as a symbol of brutality. and these 2 senior, you're p administers will pit school waste, the french and german foreign ministers, all the sauce high level west and officials to visit the country. since the sap was published from power on the promise to help syrian seek accountability, we were struck, you know, souls by the barbarism that we discovered in the concentration like handle all the sudden i a prison. they can be no more real recovery for syria unless justice is done for this, we propose to the transitional authorities. then as soon as today,

frances technical expertise can contribute in a fight against impunity. serious new lead as well hoping the trip may see west and sanctions being lifted. but both your pain envoys have made play. that won't happen soon. instead, they came with a list of demands to the leadership, including holding elections quickly better future for syria means and inclusive peaceful transfer of power reconciliation and reconstructs. this requires the political dialogue involving all ethnic and religious groups involving men and equally women. off med, i'll share all the head of serious new administration. has acknowledged the need for elections, but says they may take up to 4 years to bring about. he says the focus should be on reviving serious collapsed economy. modems, 13 years of civil war, corruption, and sanctions have left syria and people struggling to cope many of barely able to

afford basic goods. jihad is a taxi driver from damascus. he says his livelihood has been crippled by constant shots juice of fuels. sure, there was not any fuel for 10 days, so it could not work. but today there's some. so i came quickly to refill. rebuilding syria is the monumental challenge on one that requires international support. but for now, europe and lead to say they're working closely to see if the new administration to live is on the premises of stability and reform. sorry, gil algae 0, the inside story. the ok, let's bring it out. i guess in london we're joined by hired, hired a city in columbus and consulting fellow with the middle east and north africa program in chatham house. in paris is very for us to

a senior advisor at the european institute of peace. and it is done. bull is kind of delight a non resident senior fellow at the middle east council and global affairs, a welcome to all 3 of you. welcome to inside story. so hi, let me start with you. what do your opinions have to offer in your opinion? that will be most useful right now for the new leadership in syria. hyatt, the show starts all. thank you 5. i mean, i think they're the defend uh for sure things the, the, the, you on an individual a you're getting countries can provide, which wouldn't be not only important but useful for sure. yet as one of them is related to the issue of support, the only showing that transition period was unitary and aid also was supporting the reconstruction of the story at the later stage when the situation is more stable.

that allows for, for the full. so lifting of sanctions when the time is right for people to be able to rebuild the country. now there are issues related to also some of the engagements related to the transitional period. and i think ensuring the, the transition period is inclusive as fair as the transfer. and is one of the key a sort of the issues that you could focus on at this stage. so these are just a few things to, to mention. but that, that, that this is why i don't know for sure where we will talk about what's a european leaders may want for am from syria shortly. but what did you see is the major priorities for this new city and leadership. when it comes to support help and all the things the new country needs from your as well as you said,

house education, the basic needs are necessary to fuel right now. especially if we want to see reduce returning to, sorry, which is one of the main goals off europe in the countries. and this kind of happen without meaningful reconstruction and services improving in stereo. so these are urgent needs and at the same time, at the start of the political transition with the inclusive dialogue that can lead to the, the, the emotions also re present it to the institutions god. this seems to be an awful lot of groundwork that needs to be done if the new syria has a chance of turning into the country that it's people definitely wants. what do you see as being the immediate proxies for the new state? do let's not forget this is like and source conflicts, the country and the challenges are in most and the task ahead are the most effective of what you need. you need the 1st of the transition unit,

state building, unit nation building, or at same time, i'm definitely twice the level of investment, the capital investment, the politically invested in the economy, the investment, the social investment, and they're not only do your peen countries, but the neighboring countries the us, the turkey buddhist, i'm have responsibility, i would say not only it, not only does this should, but this is in just a choice, but a responsibility to how to make sure that these transitions succeed, that this transition is effective is delivering. but it's also inclusive at same time for days why, what is needed at this stage is a, uh, obviously the rebuild, the reconstruction officer is whitefield visit, post conflict country and for the rebuilding heavies, but the function unit money and the money or whatnot, probably kind of provided mainly either to the goal or, or the european countries or the international, the institution or the donor. a conference is all done with the queue. but also you

need to custom build a unit, the expertise you need the expert, this at all levels from technical to the constitutional process to the political transition process. so the challenges are in most and the europe. at this stage, there seems to be leaning more towards the speak, done the carrots, the oppressed with syria, but it should not be just stick. it should not be the you're telling what it needs to do in order for your country and gauge. but you're also in terms of price or a formal conditionality should go on the table should be offered. so it's not only rely on speak, but it's also relying on the camera because the transition in syria is not only about syria is not only about to we just think of it is especially the your basic or the syria is and maybe the country. minnesota is the, your pin, the immediate neighbor with the southern labeled. what happens is to yeah, not only go into effect to your pin for impose it, but essentially it's domestic voltage. there's an income up link between the rise,

the rise or fall right in europe. and the state collect the kind of work to what we'll talk about, that's a shortly. but a interesting point, of course. so that needs to be, in your opinion, more power than stick high ads. a, there is still a major obstacle when it comes to what you are count, potentially offer by way of investment of the country. and of course they all sanctions are to last those sanctions on syria as a states and also on the h t as a, as an organization. i a to be a house um, just to remind a few as a list knows what might take annual view for the you to abandon those sections. the what floor? no. the, the, the country, the, the, you as an institution or you can, countries under us institution have been repeating the same message. they're saying we need an interest of a transition of for you. we need the protection of minorities. we need the, the, the sort of thing close of the process that will allow different aspects that would

ensure, uh, women rise on all of those aspects would need to be implemented and guaranteed for those sanctions to be listed for the group itself. they are saying that they would need to see more actions that wouldn't match that word. instead of being sort of uh, spreaded or by the group itself, when it comes to allowing others to uh, share power and not allowing more sort of the toner into approach to the diversity of the different components in order to ensure that no one a group would have its vision especially knowing that that group has its historical ties to of tied on ice as before. uh now they're trying to present themselves and the different, more sort of, uh, and what do it and ways now i think the, the china is right now is not,

was the listing. those sort of headlines or be about to be able to come up with clear sort of plan to be able to understand if the changes the, that the mind that a you is listing uh, wouldn't be able to be delivered on how they're able to measure those uh, sort of achievements or the progress on those issues. for now, it has been cleared the discussions. i the roommate in general, um broad. i think this is the concern that many people have the only inside. so yeah, but i noticed as well because if you keep it abroad it would be difficult to really move forward. and this is something we we, we have to for sure. keep an eye on god, i'm sorry, well precision accuracy when it comes to understanding what the roadmap should be

for. see we have way be one way of a lying west and concerns about the direction, the country. it's going, i got up something fronts and some other countries have been asking for is clarity precisely over the status of the goods and full kurdish forces to be assimilated into this emerging new joint syrian armed forces. i mean, given, took a steel bench on controlling the codes aspirations for an independent homeland, a bench on curbing on groups operated by the codes. i mean, how realistic of their mind is that to normalize relations with the cousin to bring them into the fold? the joining the serial ministry or what i think, i mean, the curtis group itself, like the, i mean muslim kowana himself is on the record saying that, but i'm not looking for independence. i'm not looking for a set of states whether they are 1st and foremost, assuming we're interested in curtis group at the same group and they are open to

will be reading too great and one way or, and other decisions a good architecture always. so that will be a cumbersome process, obviously that will gamble quite many negotiation. but in principle, the bus for the city, the muslim, combined himself, has declared that it opened the see in cartridge the fight. the or the soon to defy to or within is group are ready in one way around or to the integrated into, to the, into the city and space structure provide that's it, get on the roof. but obviously it is the cube question is, what is a rope not a 2nd paint the main world, even turkey, the main. but as a trojan, believe it works in terms i'm not looking, i'm not asking for independence. so i think there's this misperception, the main political route to me. the political leaders should be including the leader of the p. j. k. upload join himself. they renounced,

i don't the state long time it will decades ago. so right now it's more for the coverage that you're in charge. it is more in the formal democrats vision and the input. yeah, the broadening of the political, legal calls of a central life. and there's more of the process that has been recently unleashed. and if this process, it says, i think that will ease the process all the data dependent syrian curtis groups with the, with the syrian, uh, with a new, at the station in damascus. an obvious of the truck it would be pushing um would it be very much pressure on by the other non cillian coast, meaning that you know the p take a other month within the p y d y p g or the s t a as to live syria and i can do that condition, that seems to be the resist. put a lot of consensus be from that's a j, a from chart give from the new administration, damascus, but also a muslim commodity solves set that yeah, they are also in the support of, of this idea. so i have these come with somebody to the, on the,

on the understood the road ahead. does most certainly sound cumbersome, marine turning to you because when it comes to what the west can offer a francis foreign minister set this. so that cannot be a moral recovery for syria unless justice is served. he went on to his guest from going off of the new bill, thought he's technical expertise when it comes to, to, to meeting out just this. i mean, how was sent to mike the new suit and lead to ship be to an offer from, from sly that to essentially help set up some sort of judicial framework in the country. mary? yes. well, i think the additional charges have said that it's important that there is an accountability process so that there is reconciliation in syria and the country can move forward. so i think in for us to intersect here, i'm friends also this to have some of the expertise on the digital side. you might remember that's a specialist that has been evicted by a fresh quote for crimes against humanity. so that has been experts also on the

international, the need to jason side, taking place in france. and also i would like to underline that there is a symbol in the visit of the french foreign minister and the german foreign minister, who in the middle of the 20th century, where a positive sides in the world well too. so it's also conveying a symbol of frequency nation as a visits, as a joint visits the page and that must, who's that frequency. jason cannot take place and people can work and live together again. i'm every stay with you because it's vital. the gemini gets its support for the new city leadership. right. isn't it, i mean, given the rise of the far right that's being attributed to jeremy's handling of the arrival of hundreds of thousands of cv in the refugees over the years. and the solemn claims in the country i'm reminded of what's at stake for germany if it doesn't get this right. of course, there is a elections coming up in germany this year, and the far right is rising. so richard cheese and sorry,

and richard hughes living in the country is an important issue. there are 8800000 us or, and richard using jen. i need to when he's just sort of country um, in terms of uh, hosting refugees. so the perspective of having the richard he's returning to serve that is very important for germany, but that's to where it's important to do some something on the sanctions. and these are some of the sanctions to allow the economy to recover because we've got economy recovery, there won't be a substantive return officer and richard cheese. so it's important that your opinions understand that it's also in the interest to ease sanctions. so that's the kind of you can recover, hired to germany's foreign minister lead a bad bulk said you were bull support syria in his transition, but you are poor. not finance. new is limits structure. so was she also told of women's rights being a yardstick? hired how much of what linda bab oakside was full this new serial leadership a little for voters by kind of in germany. do you think?

well, i think it was be again, i think it's the matter of going into the details because if you look at the statements shared by, hey, you definitely just show the dean saying that they wouldn't be leading an intrusive process. they wouldn't even insure human rights and all of the and they will not try to impose anything that is not a sort of a us for demanded by the so young people. however, i think that the real issue right now is related to the transitional period on how the transition would be managed. if you allow that group to be the main architect that would determine who would come to the national diet of the supposed to take place. one and then a sort of a design processes that would ensure that we consider that as an influence,

not only now, but later on. then it wouldn't be difficult to imagine how the process itself would be inclusive. so again we, i think the most important thing is to move beyond the headlines and right. so looking at the details of how things are implemented, go it. part of that seems to be a bit of a credibility problem, potentially for the likes of gemini, for instance, the have back to israel firstly throughout it's ongoing war and gaza. i'm in the country throughout and also given that israel has been hitting hundreds of targets in syria itself recently, well, the country is trying to get to its feet. i mean, does germany have the mo, 40 to request anything from the new city leadership right now. but i think this is the is and since, because of the governor's moral standing in the black in the world has been severe, the under mine, and i don't think that it is a moral sort, isn't with any significant moral towards it, that the germany can speak when it comes to the question of human rights in the,

in it list balls or, or, you know, the company context right now the question is more about the moral authority. the question is more above the practical that the end question or is more about the necessity? i think it was the question of the moral sort of the probably you would not see. you will not have much receptive if the listening to the general official positions when it comes to the end of a rise when it comes to, you know, the others a know much of payments in the middle is a part uses because of but right now the question is by simple the suit and his strong vision to see, and it's with instructional, rebuilding, the certainly is money. let's see what is the function way, but this theory and this, the question of the personal listing or the, the, the listing of the issue. yes is going to be a and that is on the top of that agenda and germany, europe is quite significant and active. that when it comes to frontier, the question of reconstruction and rebuilding and the final adjust to the at another point. unfortunately, the syria has been reduced to, to a tree,

a land since one of them is a recreation lenses and not also the read the colors and it's not right that says, i think i'm in some extent the controls are legitimate and it's a real rush. it is being reduced to this, the whole country might be, we all come back. we've got to go. if i want to jump in and talk about some of those concerns and the time that we have left behind, you are all syrian. is there anything higher that you have seen since the, the recent take habits is the full all of the show on the side. that gives you any sense of encouragement and encouragement to shed, perhaps by european leaders of the country is going the direction that you would like to see. some have cited the fact that students have been able to celebrate christmas, so openly, for instance, as a, as a positive side, your thoughts hyatt as well. i think again, we're looking at just the gender of things for sure. minorities and so yeah, should the rice would be uh, would like to buy things we need to move beyond just protecting the vice of

minorities and ensure that no one will harm them. we need to be on the in order to ensure, sorry, their participation. they are full of citizens in syria like any other citizen. so we got to start thinking about how we are unsure ensuring that they have the ability to participate in shaving the trends. it's not like a business then sir. yeah. but right now, are you looking to jump in and put a question to marie because they're having some concerns about a new, uh, educational curriculum. but so i was raised to an awful lot of concern amongst some civil liberties groups. it was starting to be ton, tentatively very back to the country and propose changes include apparently dropping evolution big bang theory from science less than some cutting out references to pre s y, make pagan gods from the history books. i mean, what does that say to you? i think these changes where propositions and not decided 1st of all and 2nd of all, what i see as very positive is that as soon as they have been criticisms and proof

back honda civic society, your thirty's back tracked on them and said that no one's nothing was decided that it wouldn't be on the with the technical committee. so of course, there are some consider that the dependencies with within the new authorities that are putting forward some of these ideas. but again, i, i see that as a very encouraging sign for the upcoming decision process, that's the concerns from this to be decided he's taken into account. and some decisions may be 1st, i did the movie, the new education minister, and as the outcast. we did say that the curriculum is mostly on change and design, 1st and foremost, to remove aside from the textbooks. of course, we have to wait and see what does eventually i'm much, i'm in the final minutes. a guy, if i want to ask about another worry that the west have as, and it's the presence of russian forces in syria. namely, as pulls and talk to us and it's all important based as well, given russia support for us side. what are the new leadership in syria thinking of

this current stage is in the interest to allow the russians to remain what's happening, given particularly the germans. the say they need to leave almost as a condition for our support. the only issue with the new government, the new administration with one so chipped, the russian russian presence ensued in one way or another, but it will not be in the previous phone. on the shade because of rush, i had the message and military rush. i have massive strategic presence in syria. i think the new administration will kick the restaurant as a hedge instructors as well. not knowing what is going to happen with the west, the so probably they would want to and also not to spend time when i was question further. right now, what i said they, they don't mind antagonize the wrong, but they still are careful when it comes to antagonizing russia. but i don't think that the russia would have the same ease in terms of having such a deep, strategic footprint in c, right. it is submitted to random and now as they did on the, the

a sufficient and one of the final thoughts i came to to the, into your account happened at the same time. what else on the syria? the issue is a good the last of march on uh, on uh, on the most, cuz we have a may just say in the syria, but this should not be an issue. yes, government is dominated government unless it includes the all the competitors along with all those try the new syria, the new digital political or the emergency. right? so, so, and so we have to be, it has to be just to summarize, it has to be a truly representative government covering off the countries patchwork of different groups memory. your last thoughts, obviously it will send a clear signal when it comes to russia's presence and looked in the country. whether it's the new leadership telling the russians they can stay all go well, whether it's outside power was forcing behind all the news to be leadership. your final thoughts from what i understand that the currency to she doesn't want to take any drastic decisions on it's alliance. with any foreign countries at the moment in

this transition period, and that can be the message to the interpreters and that was that it shouldn't be decided later on with a more permanent government. so i don't think that would be any decision right now . okay. many thank so 3, if you for joining an inside story memory for us to kind of july on hired, hired. it's been a pleasure having you on inside story and thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website alger 0. don't com for further discussion to get off facebook page. let's facebook dot com forward slash a inside story. you can also join the conversation on x. a handle is as a inside story. for me and the bulk of the whole team here in doha bye. for now, the report has retreat in a brutal civil war. if it hadn't been that the is ready and vision with no shipping

so well before the coming door had become generally extensive. you could be in the safe and safe, and then you went out into civil war. i started off leaving this, one of the grand suite, have to come to a hotel. the next room i was in was underground, tying the prison. so as a hostage, they was to commodore will hotels on al jazeera, a meeting of minds. truth is a back of feeling, i believe that the images have part in that buttons feel that i believe that the interpretation of images that also themselves part of that kind of more architect. yeah. advisement and photography. a travel pack then talk to every photograph is a photograph of environmental change. when you're making images at the kind of hedge of what's possible that becomes very pronounced studio. be on script data analysis era. the

the latest news, the heavy, what sort of the dust and left behind was collected and stored by the devil's boss into the mosque. other parts of city, though, is the following scenario. with detailed coverage, the origin time government has all fully lost. i know for ration controls, walk, trafficking, and contraband from the house of the story. the average syrian here is around 26

years old, off the age of the average german, meaning they can work from much longer. the, [000:00:00;00] the hello until mccrae. this is the news. hell, a live from dog. hot coming up in the next 60 minutes. the you in says goes that has become a death son. is road kills at least 50 for palestinians across the street. since don't have no heavy equipment to rescue the crabs several years from under this residential block, which has,

which has been targeted by these what your occupation forces domestic examples is it to resume international flights