was collected and stored by the devils bought into the muskets of fox, a city of those different scenarios with detailed coverage, the origin time government has also launched. i know for ration controls, rocks, trafficking, and contraband from the house of the story. the average syrian here is around 26 years old, off the age of the average german, meaning they can work from much longer. lifting sanctions in syria well, depends on how it's political future develops. that's the message from, from some japanese foreign minister to the companies, new leaders. sort of both sides, one from each other and what divides them. this is inside story, the hello welcome to the program, omni bach. only a month ago,

no one could have imagined the french and german foreign ministers visiting syria. we took them on once linked to al qaeda and wanted by the united states with a $10000000.00 bounty on his head. and that's exactly what happened on friday. for the president, the charlotte side has gone. the mine now in charge of charlotte is no longer wanted by the us greeting germany and from says top diplomats in damascus. little of any substance a much except perhaps the big differences between both sides. so you are desperately needs money to rebuild, but also the freedom to develop as a sovereign state. the opium business told the host of much depends on the political shape and direction the new syria takes. both represent strongly, pro is ready countries and the u. s. remains of the allies as well throughout the cause of genocide. and as it's launched, hundreds of attacks on syria. so what does you want from syria of syria, from europe in the time? and how much influence might your actually have would serious new leaders last call

. guess this lots more in a few moments, but 1st the support from, sorry, go this is 2nd a, a prison with thousands of syrians with detained, tortured and killed under the regime of the shot. alas, that it's viewed globally as a symbol of brutality. and these 2 senior european ministers, rootkits, waste, the french and german foreign ministers, all the soft, high level west and officials to visit the country. since the sap was toppled from power and they promise to help syrian seek accountability. we were struck, you know, souls by the barbarism that we discovered in the concentration like handle all the sudden i a prison. they can be no more real recovery for syria unless justice is saved. and for this we propose to the transitional authorities. then as soon as

today, frances technical expertise can contribute in a fight against impunity. series new need as well hoping the trip may see west and sanction being lifted. but the, your pain envoys have made play. that won't happen soon. instead, they came with a list of demands to the leadership, including holding elections quickly better future for syria means and inclusive peaceful transfer of power reconciliation and reconstructs. this requires the political dialogue involving all ethnic and religious groups involving men and equally women of med else are all the head of serious new administration. has acknowledged the need for elections, but says they may take up to full years to bring about. he says the focus should be on reviving serious collapsed economy modems, 13 years of civil war, corruption and sanctions have left syria and people struggling to cope. many of

barely able to afford basic goods. jihad is a taxi driver from damascus. he says his livelihood has been crippled by constant schultz juice of fuels. sure, there wasn't any fuel for 10 days, so it could not work. but today there are some so i came quickly to refill. rebuilding syria is the monumental challenge and one that requires international support. but for now, europe and lead to say they're working closely to see if the new administration to live is on the premises of stability and reform. sorry, gil algae 0, the inside story. the. okay, let's bring it out. i guess in london we're joined by hired, hired a city in columbus and consulting fellow with the middle east and north africa

program at chatham house. in paris is very for us to get a senior advise at the european institute of peace. and it's done. bull is kind of delight a non resident senior fellow at the middle east council in global affairs, a welcome to all 3 of you. welcome to inside story. so hi, let me start with you. want to your opinions have to offer in your opinion that will be most useful right now for the new leadership in syria. hyatt. sure. first of all, thank you for having me. i think they're the defend the for sure things the, the, the, you on an individual uh you're getting countries can provide, which wouldn't be not only important useful for sure. yet as one of them is related to the issue of support, the only showing that transition period was community and aid also was supporting the reconstruction of the story at the later stage when the situation is more

stable. that allows for, for the also the lifting of sanctions when the time is right for people to be able to rebuild their country. now there are issues relate to, to also some of the engagements related to the transition. and pretty is, and i think ensuring the, the transition page this is inclusive is fair, is transfer and is one of the key a sort of the issues that you could focus on at this stage. so these are just a few things to, to mention. but that, that, that this is waiting on them for sure. where you will talk about what your opinion leaders may want for, i'm from syria shortly. but what do you see is the major priorities for this new city and leadership when it comes to support help and all the things the new country needs from your well,

i just said house education, the basic needs are necessary to fuel right now. especially if we want to see reduce returning to, sorry, which is one of the main goals off europe in the countries and this kind of happen without meaningful reconstruction and services improving in syria. so these are urgent needs and at the same time, at the start of the political transition, we've an inclusive dialogue that can lead to the, the, the, the emotions also re present it to the institutions. kind of this seems to be an awful lot of groundwork that needs to be done if the new syria has a chance of turning into the country that it's people definitely wants. what do you see as being the immediate priorities for the new state to do? let's not forget, this is like and source conflicts, the country and the challenges are in most and the task ahead are the most

effective of what you need. you need the post on the transition unit, state building, unit nation building, all at the same time. i'm definitely twice the level of investment, the capital investment, the politically invested in the economy, the investment, the social investment, and they're not only do your peen countries, but the neighboring countries, the us, the turkey little stem have responsibility. i would say not only the, not only does this dish, but this is in just a choice, but a responsibility to how to make sure that these transitions succeed, that this transition is effective is delivering. but it's also inclusive at same time for days why. what is needed at this stage is a, uh, obviously the rebuild, the reconstruct officer is vital visit post conflict country and for the rebuilding heavies. but the function unit money and the money or whatnot, probably kind of provided mainly either for the. busy or, or the european countries on the international, the institution or the donor,

a conference is all done with the queue. but also you need to pass the unit, the expertise, you need the expertise at all levels from technical to the constitutional process to the political foundation process. so the challenges are in most and the europe. at this stage, there seems to be leaning more towards the speak, done the carrots, the approach to syria, but it should not be just stick. it should not be the you're telling what needs to do in order for your country and gauge, but you're also intensifies. so a form of conditionality should go on the table should be offered. so it's not only rely on speak, but it's also relying on the camera because the transition in syria is not only about syria is not only about to we just think of it is especially the your basic or the syria is a middle island country. minnesota is the, your pin, the immediate neighbor with the southern enabled. what happens is to yeah, not only go into effect to your pin for impose it, but essentially it's domestic voltage. there's an income up link between the rise,

the rise or fall right in europe. and the state collect the kind of work to what we'll talk about, that's a shortly. but a interesting point, of course. so that needs to be, in your opinion, more carrot than spic. hi, it's a, there is still a major obstacle when it comes to what you are count, potentially offer by way of investment of the country. and of course they all sanctions are to last those sanctions on syria as a states and also on the h t as a, as an organization. i a to be a house um, just to remind a few as a list knows what might take annual view for the you to abandon those sections. what for no, the, the, you country, the, the, you as an institution or you can, countries under you as institution have been repeating the same message. they're saying we need an interest of a transition of for you. we need the protection of minorities. we need the, the, the sort of thing close of the process that will allow different aspects that would

ensure, uh, women rise on all of those aspects would need to be implemented and guaranteed for those sanctions to be listed for the group itself. they are saying that they would need to see more actions that wouldn't match the words of being sort of uh, spread or by the group itself. when it comes to allowing others to uh, share power and not allowing more sort of the toner into approach to the diversity of the different components in order to ensure that no one a group would have its vision. especially knowing that that group has its historical ties to of tied on ice as before on now they're trying to present themselves and the different, more sort of, uh, and what do it and ways now i think the, the china is right now is not,

was the listing those sort of headlines or be about to be able to come up with clear sort of plan to be able to understand if the changes the that the mind that a you is listing uh, wouldn't be able to be delivered on how they're able to measure those uh, sort of achievements or the progress on those issues. for now, it has been cleared the discussions. i, the roommate, in general, um broad. i think this is the concern that many people have the only inside. so yeah, but i noticed as well because if you keep it abroad it would be difficult to really move forward. and um, this is something we we, we have to for sure. keep an eye. oh god, i'm sorry. well precision accuracy when it comes to understanding what the roadmap

should be for syria way, be one way of allying west and concerns about the direction the country. it's going, i got up something fonts and some other countries have been asking for is clarity precisely over the status of the goods and full kurdish forces to be assimilated into this a much a new joint syrian armed forces. i mean, given, took a steel bench on controlling the codes aspirations for an independent homeland, a bench on curbing on groups operated by the codes. i mean, how realistic of their mind is that to normalize relations with the cousin to bring them into the fold? the joining b. c in a military. that's what i think, i mean, the curtis group itself, like the, i mean muslim kowana himself is on the record saying that, but i'm not looking for independence. i'm not looking for a set of states whether they are 1st and foremost,

assuming we're interested in curtis group, but as a group. and they are open to will be reading too great and one way or, and other decisions a good architecture always. so that will be a cumbersome process, obviously that will gamble quite many negotiation. but in principle, the bus for the city, the muslim, combined himself, has declared that it opened the see in cartridge fight. the of the soon to defy to or within is group are ready in one way around and to the integrated into, to the, into the city and space structure provide that's it, get on the roof. but obviously it is the cube question is, what is a rope not a 2nd paint the main world in turkey, the main but as a trojan, believe it works in terms i'm not looking, i'm not asking for independence. so i think there's this misperception, the main political route to me and political leaders should be including the leader of the p. j. k. upload join himself. they renounced,

i don't the state long time it will decades ago. so right now it's more for the coverage that you're in charge. it is more in the formal democrats vision and the input. yeah, the broadening of the political, legal calls of a federal life. and there's more of the process that has been recently unleashed. and if this process defense, i think that will ease the process or that little bit been the syrian curtis groups with the, with the syrian uh, with a new, at the station in damascus. an obvious of the truck it would be pushing. i wouldn't be very much pressure on the idea of the non cillian codes, meaning that you know, the p k k of the month within the p y d y, p g, or the s the actual live syria. and i can do that condition, that seems to be the resist, put a lot of consensus be from that's a j, a from chart give from the new administration, damascus, but also a muslim combining hoops offset that. yeah, they are also in the support of, of this idea. so i have these come with somebody to the, on the,

on the understood the road ahead. does most certainly sound cumbersome. marine turning to you because when it comes to what the west can offer, a frances foreign minister said this to the cannot be a moral recovery for syria unless justice is served. he went on to his guest from going off of the new bill, thought he's technical expertise when it comes to, to, to meeting out just this. i mean, how we're set to my, the new suit and lead to ship be to an offer from, from sly that to essentially help set up some sort of judicial framework in the country. mary. that's what i think the additional charges have said that it's important that there is an accountability process so that there is reconciliation in syria and the country can move forward. so i think in for us to intersects here, i'm friends also this to have some of the expertise on the digital side. you might remember that's a specialist that has been evicted by a fresh quote for crimes against humanity. so that has been experts also on the

international that you need to jason side taking place in france. and also i would like to underline that there is a symbol in the visit of the french foreign minister and the german foreign minister, who in the middle of the 20th century, where a positive sides in the world well too. so it's also conveying a single up frequency nation as a visits, as a joint visit the page, and that must cause that frequency. jason cannot take place and people can work and live together again. i'm every stay with you because it's vital that germany gets its support for the new city leadership. right, isn't it? i mean, given the rise of the far right that's being attributed to germany's handling of the arrival of hundreds of thousands of cb and the refugees over the years and the solemn claims in the country. i'm reminded of what's at stake for germany if it doesn't get this right. of course, there is a election is coming up in germany this year, and the far right is rising. so richard cheese and sorry, and richard hughes,

leading into the country is an important issue. there are 8, a 800000, a surrender, which reducing germany, germany, the 3rd country in terms of the hosting refugees. so the perspective of having richard use return interesting is very important for germany, but that's to where it's important to do some something on the sanctions. and these are some of the sanctions to allow the economy to recover because we bought the economy recovery, there won't be a substantial of return officer and richard cheese. so it's important that your opinions understand that it's also in their interest to ease sanction. so that's the kind of you can recover high to germany's foreign minister and really the bad bulk said you were bull support syria in his transition, but you are poor. not finance. new is limits structure. so was she also told of women's rights being a yardstick? hired how much of what lead to bab oakside was full. this new city leadership,

a little full voters by kind of in germany. do things to well, i think it was be again, i think it's the matter of going into the details because if you look at the statements. sure, by hey, you definitely just show the dean saying that they wouldn't be leading an intrusive process. they wouldn't even insure human rights on all of the and they will not try to impose anything that is not a sort of a us for would you mind that by the certain people? however, i think that the real issue right now is related to the transitional period on how the transition would be managed. if you allow that group to be the main architect that would determine who would come to the national diet of the supposed to take place. one and then, and sort of a design processes that would ensure that we consider that as influenced,

not only now, but later on. then it wouldn't be difficult to imagine how the process itself would be inclusive. so again we, i think the most important thing is to move beyond the headlines and really start looking at the details of how things are implemented go it. part of that seems to be a bit of a credibility problem, potentially for the likes of gemini, for instance, the have back to israel firstly throughout its ongoing war and gaza. i'm in the country throughout and also given that israel has been hitting hundreds of targets in syria itself recently, well, the country is trying to get to its feet. i mean, does germany have to mow or 40 to request anything from the new city leadership right now? but i think this is the is and since, because of the governor's moral standing in the line in the world has been severe and the under mine, and i don't think that it is a moral sort, isn't with any significant moral towards it, that the germany can speak when it comes to the question of human rights in the,

in release both or, or, you know, the company contacts right now the question is not about the moral authority. the question is more above the practical that and the question or is more about the necessity? i think it was the question of the more alternative, probably you would not see. you would not have much receptive if the listening to the general official positions when it comes to the end of a rise when it comes to, you know, the other, a normative payments in the middle east of funds uses the gaza. but right now the question is by simple the suit and his strong vision to see, and it's with instructional, rebuilding this in this money the see what is the function way. but this theory and this, the question of the personal listing or the, the, the listing of the staff is going to be around that is on the top of the agenda and germany, europe is quite significant. and after that, when it comes to frontier, the question of reconstruction and rebuilding, i'm the final adjust to a at another point. unfortunately, the syria has been reduced to, to a tree,

a land since one of them is a recreation lenses and not also the red colors. and it's one of them that says, i think, i mean, she'll make some of the construction are legitimate and it's a real brush. it is being reduced to this. the whole country might be, we are coming. we've got to go up. i want to jump in and talk about some of those concerns and the time that we have left behind you are all syrian. is there anything hired that you have seen since the, the recent take over since the full all of a shot on the side. that gives you any sense of encouragement and encouragement, said perhaps by you are the leaders of the country is going the direction that you would like to see. some have cited the fact that students have been able to celebrate christmas, so openly, for instance, as a, as a positive side, your thoughts hyatt as well. i think again, we're looking at just the gender of things for sure. minorities and so yeah, should the rice would be that i'd like to,

i think we need to move beyond just protecting the vice of minorities uninsured, that no one will harm them. we need to be on the in order to ensure, sorry, their participation. they are full of citizens in syria like any other citizen. so we have to start thinking about how we are unsure ensuring that they have the ability to participate in shaving the transition. that like a proposals and sir, yeah, but right now are you looking to jump in and put a question to marie because they're having some concerns about a new uh, educational curriculum. but so i was raised to an awful lot of concern amongst some civil liberties groups. it was starting to be ton, tentatively very back to the country. among propose changes include apparently dropping evolution big bang theory from science lessons from cutting out references to pre s y, make pagan gods from the history books. i mean, what does that say to you? i think these changes where propositions and not decided 1st of all and 2nd of all,

what i see as very positive is that as soon as they have been criticisms and push back honda civic society, your thirty's back tracked on them and said that no one's nothing was decided that it wouldn't be on the with the technical committee. so of course, there are some consider that the dependencies with within the new authorities that are putting forward some of these ideas. but again, i, i see that as a very encouraging sign for the upcoming decision process, that's the concerns from this to be decided he's taking into account and some decisions. maybe we 1st did the movie, the new education minister, and as the outcast. we did say that the curriculum is mostly on change and design, 1st and foremost, to remove aside from the textbooks. of course, we have to wait and see what does eventually i'm much, i'm in the final minutes. a guy, if i want to ask about another worry that the west have as, and it's the presence of russian forces in syria. namely, as pulls and talk to us and it's all important based as well. given russia support for side,

what the new leadership in syria thinking of this current stage is in the interest to allow the russians to remain what's happening, given particularly the germans, the say they need to leave almost as a condition for our support. the only issue with the new government, the new administration with one so chipped, the russian russian presence ensued in one way or another, but it will not be in the previous phone. on the shade because of rush, i had the message and military rush. i have massive strategic presence in syria. i think the new administration will kick the restaurant at the edge instructors as well. not knowing what is going to happen with the west, the so probably they would want to and also not just spend time when i was washing powder. right now, what i said they, they don't mind antagonize the wrong, but they still are careful when it comes to antagonizing russia. but i don't think that the russia wouldn't have the same ease in terms of having such a deep, strategic footprint in c, right. it is submitted to random and now as they did on the, the

a separation. and one of the final thoughts i came to to the, into your account happened at the same time. what else on the syria? the issue is a good the last of march on uh, on uh, on the most, cuz we have a may just say in the syria, but this should not be an issue. yes, government is dominated government unless it includes the all the competitors along with all this, correct? the new syria, the new digital political or the emergency right also. and so we have to be, it has to be just to summarize, it has to be a truly representative government covering all of the countries, patchwork of different groups, memory, your law schools. obviously, it will send a clear signal when it comes to rushes, presence in the, in the country. whether it's the new leadership telling the russians they can stay all go well, whether it's outside power was forcing behind all the news to be leadership. your final thoughts from what i understand that the currency to she doesn't want to take any drastic decisions on it's alliance with any foreign countries at the moment in

this transition period. and that can be the message to the internal peters. and i suppose that it shouldn't be decided later on with a more permanent government, so i don't think that would be any decision right now. okay, many. thank. so 3, if you for joining an inside story memory for us to kind of july on hired, hired. it's been a pleasure having you on inside story and thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website alger 0. don't com for further discussion to get off facebook page. let's facebook dot com forward slash a inside story. you can also join the conversation on x. a handle is as a inside story for me in the fall and the whole team here in bo huh. bye. for now, the, the red one is the world's wherever screeching numbers are

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they're plentiful and they're calm like this one is, then you know that the system is coming back and that they feel no surrender. and that's why you're not re wilding patagonia on, i'll just say era. examine the feedback. today's headlines, know for empower, liberated decisions, and it's in syrians hands to determine how the future looks like setting agenda for tomorrow's discussions. if you all people from across the world can collaborate, why can't our world leaders international filmmakers, them? world class journalists bring programs to inform and inspire too many to justin pratt and much as it should be on the agenda. barnowski sierra the the, the,

there's no limit to how far a dream contains stuck in your own adventure. now, counter arrange the i'm on the inside in doha, he had told stories on al jazeera, a high level syrian delegation, including the new foreign minister aside, all shape bonnie has arrived in the contemporary capital though. huh. so new administration, 2nd foreign visit of to trip to re add on wednesday. i bonnie reiterates it is governments cool for the united states to lift sanctions on syria. he is expected to travel to several countries to establish relations, including the united arab emirates, a neighboring jordan, stephanie deck.