to develop a comprehensive, sustainable tourism program in partnership with the global sustainable tourism comes this country homes more beauties that just looks like beaches, historical and cultural bureau, velo reach, and michelin, green star, restaurants come and discover the natural, historical and cultural beauties. m . 23 fighters are celebrating their latest success and eastern democratic republic of congo. they have taken 2 towns and as many days in north keeping province talks to end the conflict, we're abruptly cancelled last month. so what does this renewed? pushed by in 23 mean for the d r c. and it's people. this is inside story, the

hello and welcome to the program. i'm several then yay! the eastern region of democratic republic of congo has been in conflict some more than 30 years affecting the lives of millions of people. the most prominent arm group is the m $23.00, which is widely believed to be backed by a neighboring lawanda allegations that there were wondering government has denied and em $23.00 fighters have stepped up their offensive and recent months they have captured 2 towns and recent days there believe to be just 80 kilometers away from goma, the capital of north cable. providence houses here is a long way connie has this update from government a certain days after the fall of did this to my page again. second, the largest, the deal from i see, see them from the to like to now are trying to fulfill your data just to show you yesterday, in a public meeting with the population. them $22000.00. is that for them? it open new as an instructor in this area of my assistance, there is president of the former administration appointed by the president of the

republican decided lines of this tricia with sage. we have to remind you of this province of norfolk, it was still on the 5th of susie to declare the almost 3 is boston by the president of the republic in order to allow the army to 10 to 14 of this suggestion and also to stop the move where they bid them above the, beside all these syllables, fortunately to move and they gave them more ground. this is why many people are just probably so now expressing the apple sense on the ongoing situation. for now, they say no more than by that thing called a who they got somebody is governors. how many phone minnesota front you decide your phone, the code on the phone, communication fraud at the menu for all those products of age on these things that i can say to that i tend to the company is governance personally who the presented security. i think he must reside while you're brask. uh, i think to be honest, don't be difficult with the way you run the country specifically at this moment

when that country is facing a serious problem. if the president should be humbled and tries to meet other ladies who can help him to resolve this ongoing situation. just wondering again, pictures of the marriage and different social media. yeah. so we would have value on the probably out of most easy right now. we did hundreds of gypsies around and those are sort of just being moved on their way. and many people do believe that the rebels i know expressing more appetite of taking different areas. and in the absence of any dialogue between the governments of the stuff that we do, we value people are wondering now what does it not make on these which come stop these people from moving and to find another waste and all this because of the cost and stuff i still maintain that useful is if i'm saying that they wouldn't want to be any data dialed with a $2.00 bedroom, the choosing for paying support advice of 50 dollars. i don't know if the system does. one does always the night and we jumped it all in wake on. i'm does it all home for inside story?

let's take a closer look at m 23. the young group emerged more than a decade ago. it is primarily based in north keybo, a resource rich province in eastern d, r. c, and borders. rwanda and 23 meters are mainly from me to the estimate group. they say one of their aims is to defend themselves against who to lead forces for flood rwanda during the 1994 genocide. and in recent years, the m. 23 fighters have seized large areas of eastern d r. c. that's bringing our guests and government east and democratic republic of congo is reagan, the very a researcher who specializes in a conflict in the d. r. c in addis ababa, solomon durso, founding director of a money africa, penn, african think tank that works on peace, security policy and diplomacy in africa. also in gomez, david monthly, director of world visions response to the conflict in the eastern new york. a warm

welcome to each of you know, since we have a, we're speaking to 2 people who are in goma right now. i do want to get your feeling on the ground. reagan david is so goma, of course, is the capital of north q m, 23 rebels, as we stated or 80 kilometers away, they have in the past. this was some years ago taken goma before they've shown in the past that they could do it. it's not to say they could do it today, but they have in the past. what's the feeling on the ground for you? let's throw this one to you. first. 3. good. yes. on the ground its uh, every time we see an of the cd to can we ask ourselves what it needs to be? uh, but guess for, for, for myself it's me, it's people are print, preoccupied. people are here. oh uh, i think about what can happen to them, but so far, of course we didn't say that people's resilience in your mom, but so we know that's uh the suggestion has led another economic right says as

we can say or the gauge to go my heart or was, was so was to have access to the leg and to and to run off but the, the other kids are doing. so that's a big suggestion. and exactly these are a lot of for young people here. you can go ma as the cd. what is happening around them? yeah, david, anything you want to add to that? yeah, it says if you were to go around to the caps, the many camps that go all the way towards my cc up to the channel. there's an increase of pressure. there is a m pots which exists in these cabs is really already at a crisis level for us to see this conflict. whitening and growing further still has very negative implications on the hundreds of thousands of families who are already displaced with already black. who may have definitely further still solomon, let me, let me bring you in and, and let's go to the root of this conflict m 23 itself has only existed for,

you know, little over a decade a, the 1st and 23 rebellion or when they crashed. onto the stage was 2012 um but as i think, i think it's fair to say everyone agrees what's happening right now. in eastern congo eastern new york city has its roots in the, in the 1994 period of time after a london genocide. is that fair? and if so, can you walk us through that? so indeed, the genesis of this conflict uh, traces back to the 1994 genocide to get into the food scene dwanda following the perpetration of the dislodge of skating. my soccer. some of the uh, perpetrators, uh, actually are on hold for one to uh and took a huge in the eastern the odyssey. and some of them actually established that the de la, uh, which is uh,

on ottoman dribbling group operating from east on the odyssey. uh, made up pulse people who are suspected all having been engaged in the preparation of uh, the 99 for genocide. uh. and that one that has to be an accusing video or see off um, allowing its territory to be used by there for dental, which has actually, uh, i'm patient of, uh, over 20 the government in god. and uh uh, that's obviously wouldn't be suited kindly by the government aquanda life pulse the nature and kind of a policy to use the perpetrated in one day 1994. and this has been an issue of contention and pension between a wanda and data sheet for

a long period of time and decided that the mains police state is indeed one of the factors why we continue to have this got an situation kind of the, you know, the data see government that gives us a window supporting them to 23, but we're on solomon, i think in general. and if you, you've laid out what happened in 1994 and just softer, right? you've laid out, the rwanda accuse is d r. c of harboring a predominantly who's to who to group the, the lar, that want to bring down to keep go the government. but you haven't yet explained to us the birth of m 23 some 20 years after that. and so the, i'm trying to speed the march 23rd. uh the quote is on the on off sort of uh, an automotive group. uh, that's what the operating in eastern do you have see in 2009. that was an argument

between the government of data saying this automatic and that argument was uh, concluded in march uh, trace street and stopping and 9 uh the, and it, the, the collapse of the agreement. because following the agreement on the implementation of the agreement, that was that requirement and on the temp on the part of the government engaged as a tool to relocate the members of these items to group as part of that integration process into the national academy of the obviously and that creates a lift between this group and the depths of government. the members of bottom group didn't want to relocate from that or what they consider to be their uh, area of presence and the web,

the media and docs live to pull out leading to based publish most of the intern, sweet driven group. and indeed, the 1st time dr emerged and it launch it on a pluck and you know, uh, a fighting weave the data see army in 2020. that it's important really to remember, but also happened in 2012 straight is empty. when we talk about the coming state of things in eastern data, she and rigging, to just complete that picture, the m 23, they're predominantly tootsie. and they say that they're acting in defense of the 2 c estimate group in eastern d r c. and they say that they are protecting tootsie civilians from attacks, either by the con believe's army or by the f, the law or the predominantly quit to rebel group operating also in eastern

d or c. yes, officially, that's what they say. and that's the reason that they're there they are by but of course we know that it's much, much more complex than that because of a guy at this 2nd vision of 23 positive church. you know, a suggestion of a bridge, the action between uganda and ronda, and find out the door and read that to really sit for a suggestion and including with all of the communities, even the, the, the case of community enough give. so i got time you could've given justify that that's on there are lots of band 23 by saying that there is um, a deck some thoughts the especially enough to you. yes, of course we can talk about a teaching soft keeble was but, but yeah,

i'm willing to, but doctors in south carol enough cable doors are lots of really basic for situation. what's uh, what's good. explain the dodge of the editor to 3, dismantled age. the tension between uganda and rhonda and the reason that's yeah, she has chosen of that done to oh, to got that deal and we've uh we've gone down so that'd be made insight into the sea and they may have also going to leak um, but going to be getting the i see wild run the seas do it. that seemed to be uh, a foot by side. so i think that is what one of the reason of out there, those are in good faith but soft thought the suggestion has changed. you've gone to run that now the that close by lies and, and we know that they be good to 3 and getting out of control over the lens.

so ease, there is other reasons about of some the predicts that has been said at the beginning there is a reason that can explain now the continuation of the conflict so far. so david a, what's clear, i think what will be clear, the viewers were coming at the story perhaps of the 1st time or not very well versed. and the story was clear from the outset is that there are many layers. so this conflict, one of them is the to see versus who to admit the born out of the rwanda genocide. that is all there is now all playing out no longer and one to but in eastern new york, where both of those groups of parts of both of those groups fled to many years ago . another layer is the just the, the rivalry between neighbors of the r, c and rwanda. and as reagan was saying, there are other countries around rudy's one of them, uganda is another that are also have various interest. is that a fair way to characterize it? how would you complete this picture?

yes, this is incredibly complex. this, these issues are, are, are very complicated. multi layer. they go back decades baby with reference 1994. we can even go further back than that. but with all of these things going on with all of this complexity, it comes with with conflict. we see so much displacement. and what we're dealing with right now is a really humanitarian nightmare. because with that conflict, again, we're losing our access, our staff. so many humanitarians, they fall under greater and security, it's tougher to reach, a greater number of people and the resources are stretched. so all this complexity is leading again to a higher number of displaced children and families that really have access to so very little you hear stories of sugar needing once a day once every couple of days. a lot of negative coping mechanisms exist within the caps. so, you know, we look for a greater solution in terms of the complexity of this area. but in the meantime, there is a true price that says happening in eastern d r c,

in the camps around don't. and within government itself, which is facing really by the precedents of pressure criminality. and so many challenges that are really weighing down to city and really tip of finding this crisis advance. well, david, to your point about the humanitarian crisis, my understanding is that in terms of surface area m 23 no controls roughly half of north keep. so what's it like for a family, normal congolese family that lives in that half of north quito? what's it like for them under m, 23 control we've made reference to i think some of the social and economic challenges and gama is fairly large part by a large swath of shooting territory or must easy. so as these areas get cuts, um, you know, vegetables principal go right in the fields, prices go higher and goal not so really good on both sides that you're facing a lot of these challenges pertaining to a greater food and security, a poor economic picture, less money in the pockets of people

a greater strain on the family structure. so whether you're in one part of nor keybo or the other part of both sides are really dealing us. and i think both sides and that's when i talk about side they're talking about children. again and families and communities are really banging for a longer term, durable solution, because everybody is really feeling the effects either directly through having to flee or indirectly again from social economic end. and all these political kind of factors that make themselves known in the day to day reagan, who within the international community, if anyone is helping out. cuz i was trying doing some research before the show on the various outside forces that are in the region, trying to pacify extensively. the area, the, there's the new scope, the, the un force, but they were asked to pull out. they were asked to withdraw. so they started in 2024 just last year. they started withdrawing until this renewed m 23 offensive. and the government paused. the withdrawal of un troops. that's my understanding

right now. there's also the east african beg your pardon, east african regional force. that also appears to have been a failure in so far as the congolese government ask them to leave as well. so what's the status of outside groups trying to help? yes. oh yeah, that's the other. go back to us. so now do i say? yeah, actually, the reason monitors call back monday school has friends sofa. that's what we can say option it. and they, and they have failed for, you know, the situation. no, didn't say in the uh, adf crises, but also with the, i guess other i'm group, we just see that because here we are speaking are about attempting to see. but we, it's important to remember that there was a lot of i'm group activity in the sea and they are having a real impact on the, the lives of people. so that's really important to remember that ends when it's come to the original or false is of course we have the somebody of this it,

which is the mission from desktop africa, regional developments, the community. and so far we have um, south africa, honest, we have malawi on and uh they just called me where when the, the, the says find out was uh, negotiated, so certified. so it'd be difficult to uh, to evaluate the team back into the grout buds. i don't believe that the, we have a big are the boss that done new school who fed and is enough for garbage in order for us. so that's what reagan hold on to the very clear you're saying that you enforce has failed. you're saying the east african forces failed and you're saying it's too early to tell whether the south african, the, the southern african forces are having any impact. yes,

that's what i'm saying. and again, they, they are here, but they, they, they are not very, not the number, you know. so i don't know, we need to see the rest of that's a after, but i'm not even sure that they, we do the got involved on the ground does what? that okay, this is solomon. there has been multiple attempts at a piece deal, or at least at cease fire has multiple cease fires, have been announced over the years. and they've all broken down the latest, serious, robust attempt at securing peace for the region and finding some kind of political settlement between congo and rolanda was in december. but that broke down before the presidents of both countries even met. why is this particular conflict? why does it seem impervious to any and all attempts at, at making peace 1st, it's important to understand that there is a deep misplaced between the governments in contrast,

and got it. uh, and the regional and international effort for mediation, obviously goes all the way back to the 1st i'm time. see in a 1000000000 and drink prints, print 13, and if you do quarter from the time, i think it's important to remember that uh, been in a serious problem of defining what the nature of this program is. that is the problem, a political problem. and then for requiring opponents consultation for a week, there is a need for having and sitting down either mediation pulses in a piece talk. that's the, the 1st part of the other party. actually the kind of military or security major stuff may be taken in order to actually did with this activity dimensional because i don't think that there is agreement between the products about what the nature of

the problem needs and thoughts them together with the mistress created this problem, okay, want to share a timeline with our viewers on just the most recent attempts that at suppliers and peace efforts been several times in the last 12 months alone. so in december talks between the rwandan and kimberly's leaders were cooled off after disagreement on the terms of a deal. that's what we were referring to earlier. earlier in august, this is a 2024 and gold mediated a fragile truth, which temporarily these tensions along the front lines. but that com was short lived because by october m, 23 fighters had resumed their offensive against the con, believes army, and at least also something we mentioned earlier. 7000000 people have been displaced internally and another 1000000. i fled the neighboring countries in just the past few years. david, a, a nice question if you will allow me this. if you just look at the map of this region of africa, d r c is by far the largest country. it is 90 times bigger in terms of for

a surface area, then tiny ro, wanda edits doorstep, and it is almost 10 times more populous. then rolanda. how come and i understand this is a very basic reading of the situation, the outcome, congo, can't bring the resources the beer to secure a northeastern the northeastern part of this country. or you call that a simple question is actually, again, very complex. it's a profound question that again can go back to 1960 the independence of the country and even before bass with belgium's role within, you know, pre independence. just to understand again, congo as a very large countries, you say that there's kind of aspects that go to construct. so then you look to the south, which is more again, mining and industrial squared zambia. and then you have again the great lakes, which is which is eastern d r c. and i think the congo estate has always been again, kind of,

it's been kind of played with it's, there's been a lot of kind of external pressure towards the d. r. c. so i wouldn't necessarily call that week, but i can understand just the complexities of being able to, in an area with some limited infrastructure in a place that again, it is managed by can shots. so which is about 2000 kilometers wage. so there are some natural, i guess you can call them maybe socio economic or political blockages that have led to a situation which again has gone on for over 30 years since again, you can say 1994 or even before that. and part of it is really telling the greater history of, of the region itself. but again, we find ourselves in a situation with all of this story and complexity where we have hundreds of thousands of children and families suffering due to this situation. and i think that my colleagues have done a great job in explaining so many of the factors. i think that there is still where we find ourselves today. and that is that a situation which is increasingly precarious with greater displacement and,

and i would say a somewhat negative outlook for the future if my ccs being taken. what does this mean for so many families live in and around? i'm a cc. what are the implications, again, to the resources that are available for those that have been displaced? unfortunately, these are, you know, good answers to these questions. we're concerned about a great, great limited number of resources. and what this is going to mean for the future of the d r c. specifically for eastern b, a c. and 2025. is lady quite challenging for all of us? yeah, david, look where it will ended there. um and you, you raise obviously what is the central question here, which is the fate of the millions of people who live in this part of the r c and what happens to them and their safety and their access to the very basic necessities. um, i'd like to think or guess for joining us. there were a lot of threads to pull on and this conversation, reagan be very solemn and durso and david monthly. thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website. that's alpha 0 dot com

for further discussion, go to our facebook page at facebook dot com. forward slash a inside story. you can also join the conversation on x and instagram are handled at a j inside story from me. so then yay. and the entire team here in dole life the savannah's way, like columbia bu, just has become a stomping grounds for trespasses as desperate people transgress and illegal passage to feed an emerging fuel trafficking market. we followed the powerless journey unguarded through the line of fire risk, and it'll send as wayland columbia on al jazeera us servicemen and women swear an oath to defend the constitution. but military

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