that leads from his adopted husband to the country if he's bad. and the most unexpected re union witness in earlier on o. d 023 fighters are celebrating the latest success in the eastern democratic republic of congo. they have taken 2 towns and as many days in north keep of province talks to end, the conflict were abruptly cancelled last month. so what does this renewed, flushed by n 23 mean for the d r c, and it's people. this is inside story, the hello and welcome to the program. i'm several venue, yay! the eastern region of democratic republic of congo has been in conflict some more

than 30 years affecting the lives of millions of people. the most prominent arm group is the m $23.00, which is widely believed to be backed by a neighboring lawanda allegations that the rwandan government has denied and em $23.00 fighters have stepped up their offensive and recent months they have captured 2 towns in recent days. there believe to be just 80 kilometers away from goma, the capital of north cable products houses here is ellen, wake county has this update from government a certain days after the fall of the this to my page again. second, the logistics you from i see, see them from the to like to now are trying to fulfill your data just to show you yesterday in a public meeting we the population them $22000.00 is the appointment of a new us and me sort of in this area of assistance, there is precedent of the former administration appointed by the president of the republican decided lines of this tricia with siege. we ought to remind to view of this province of norfolk, it was still on the 5th of says it was declared. the almost 3 is boston by the

president of the republic in order to allow the army to technical total distribution and also to stop, to move what they've been doing. but beside all these syllables, fortunate to move and they gave them more ground. this is why many people are just probably some know expressing vehicle some on the ongoing situation for now. situation no more than 5, that's a good, a good. they got somebody is governors. how many front? minnesota front. you decide your phone code on the front communication front at the menu for all those products of age. so the only thing that i can say was that i tend to, the company is governance personally. who the present security. i think he must reside while you're broke. uh, i think to be honest, don't be difficult with the way you run the country. specifically, at this moment when a country is facing a serious problem and the president should be humble and tries to meet other ladies who can help him to resolve this ongoing situation. just wondering again,

pictures as he moved in different social media. yeah, so we would have value on the probably out of monthly. so right now we did hundreds of gypsy around and those are sort of just big moves on the highway. and many people do believe that the rebels i know expressing more appetite of taking different areas. and in the absence of any dialogue between the governments of the stuff that we do value before wondering now, what does another make on this? so we've come stop this people from moving and to find another waste and all this suggested the cause can stuff i still maintain a use for this. i'm saying that they will not be any data dialogue. we did a bedroom that they are choosing for paying support advice of 50 gully. it sounds like the system does. one does always the night and do we just, it's all in wake on. i'm does it all home for inside story. let's take a closer look at m 23. the old group emerged more than a decade ago. it is primarily based in north kibo,

a resource rich province in eastern d, r. c, and borders. rwanda and 23 meters are mainly from me to the estimate group. they say one of their aims is to defend themselves against who to lead forces for flood rolanda during the 1994 genocide. and in recent years, the m. 23 fighters have seized large areas of eastern d r. c. that's bringing our guests and government, eastern democratic republic of congo is reagan to vary a researcher who specializes in a conflict in the d. r. c. in addis ababa, solomon durso, founding director of amani africa, penn, african think tank that works on peace security policy and diplomacy in africa. also in gomez, david monthly, director of world visions response to the conflict in the eastern d. r. c. a warm welcome to each of you know, since we have a, we're speaking to 2 people who are in goma right now. i do want to get your feeling on the ground. reagan david is so goma, of course,

is the capital of north q m. 23 rebels, as we stated our 80 kilometers away. they have in the past. this was some years ago taken goma before they've shown in the past that they could do it. it's not to say they could do it today, but they have in the past. what's the feeling on the ground for you? let's throw this one to you. first. 3. good. yes. on the ground its uh, every time we see an of the cd to can we ask ourselves what it needs to be? uh, but guess for, for myself its me, its people are print preoccupied people are we are. oh uh, a few things about uh, what can happen to bob, but so of final close, we can save that peoples. i resiliency for mom, but so we know that the situation has led a not the economy prices as we can say, or the gauge to go my heart or was, was so was to have access through the leg and to, uh, uh,

and to run it out but the, the that gets uh adults, so that's a big suggestion and it's that these are a lot of for young people. here you go, ma as the cd, what does happening around them? yeah, david, anything you want to add to that? yeah, it says if you were to go around to the caps, the many camps that go all the way towards my cc up to the journal, there's an increased pressure. there is a m pots which exists in these cabs. it's really all ready at a crisis level for us to see this conflict. whitening and growing further still has very negative implications on the hundreds of thousands of families who are already displaced with already black. who may have definitely further still solomon. let me, let me bring you in and, and let's go to the root of this conflict m 23 itself has only existed for, you know, little over a decade a, the 1st and 23 rebellion or when they crashed on to the stage was 2012 um,

but as i think, i think it's fair to say everyone agrees what's happening right now in eastern congo eastern new york has its roots in the, in the 1994 period of time after there are ones in genocide. is that fair? and if so, can you walk us through that? so indeed the genesis of this conflict uh traces back to the 1994 genocide against the tooth seen dwanda. following the perpetration of the, this larger scale of my soccer. some of the uh, perpetrators actually are on hold for one to uh, and took a huge in the eastern data. and some of them actually established that de la, uh, which is uh, on ottoman dribbling group operating from eastern data. she made a pulse of people who are suspected of having been engaged in the preparation of uh,

the 1994 genocide. uh and that one that has to be an accusing but the our see off um, allowing its territory to be used by their fidelity out of which has actually uh, i'm vision of uh, uh, the towing the government, the gun and uh uh that's obviously wouldn't be suited kindly by the government to one the light poles, the nature and kind of a tool as it is. that's what perpetrated in 191994. and this has been an issue of contention and tension between a wand and data sheet for a long period of time. and the fact that it, the mains police state is indeed one of the factors why we continue to have this

gun and situation kind of the, you know, the data see government that gives us alondo, supporting them 20 suite. but way, oh solomon, i can jump on and if you, you've laid out what happened in 1994 and just softer, right? you've laid out the one to accuse is d r c of harboring a predominantly who's to who to group the the lar that wants to bring down to can go the government. but you haven't yet explained to us the birth of m 23 some 20 years after that. so the am trying to speed the march 23rd. uh, the group is on the north shore of an automotive group. uh, that's where they'll pay the, the eastern gmc uh, in 2009. and there was an agreement between the government of data set and this automotive. and that agreement was concluded in march

10th street and 2009 the end. it's the, the collapse of the agreement because following the agreement on the implementation of the apartment, there was that requirement and on the temple in the part of the government engaged as a tool to relocate the members of these out of the group as part of that integration process into the national academy of the obviously and that's created at least between this group and the depths of government. the members of bottom group didn't want to relocate from that or what they consider to be their uh, area of presence and the web. the media and docs live to pull out leading to the establishment of the intern suite driven

a group. and indeed, the 1st time dr emerged and the loan should on a pluck and you know, uh, a fighting weave the data see me in 22 twins. that it's important really to remember what all is still happening. 2012 straight is empty. when we talk about the coming state of things in eastern data, she and rigging, to just complete that picture, the m 23 there, predominantly tootsie. and they say that they're acting in defense of the to see ethnic group in eastern d, r c. and they say that they are protecting tootsie civilians from attacks either by the convoluted army or by the f d l. are there predominately who to rebel group operating also in eastern new york? yes, officially, that's what they say. and that's the reason that they're there. they are by

but of course we know that it's much, much more complex than that because of a guy at this 2nd vision of 23 positive emerge. you know, a suggestion of a bridge and the action between uganda and randa. and, and that, that, that, that time door and we would actively pursue it for a suggestion and including with all of the communities, even though that the case of community enough give, so at that time, you couldn't even justify that. that's on there. lots of ben, 23 by saying that there is a deck some thoughts the especially enough q. yes, of course we can talk about a teaching soft keeble was but but yeah, i'm willing to, but doctors in south carol enough do you will those that are real active, really basic for situation. what's uh, what's good explaining the results of the and the 33 this mandatory age,

the tension between uganda and rhonda. and the reason that's, yeah, she has the chopping of that done to oh, to got that deal and we've uh, we've gone down so that'd be made insight into the sea. and they may have also going to make a going to be getting gas. see why of a run the seas do it that seem to be uh, uh, boots by side. so i think that is what one of the reason of out there, those are good to preach but soft spot. the suggestion has changed. you've gone to run that now the that blows finalize and, and we know that they, they entered the 3 on getting out of control of, of the lens. so he's, there is other reasons about of some the predict that's has been said at the beginning. there is a reason that's explained now the continuation of the conflict so far.

so david a, what's clear, i think what will be clear, the viewers were coming at the story perhaps of the 1st time or not very well versed in the story. what's clear from the outset is that there are many layers to this conflict. one of them is the to see versus who to admit the born out of the rwandan genocide. that is all that is now all playing out no longer and one to but an eastern d r. c. were both of those groups of parts of both of those groups fled to many years ago. another layer is the just the, the rivalry between neighbors of the r c and ro, wanda. and as reagan was saying, there are other countries around burgundy is one of them. uganda is another that are also have various interest. is that a fair way to characterize it? how would you complete this picture? yes, this is incredibly complex. this, these issues are, are, are very complicated, multi layered, they go back decades, be with reference, 1994. we can even go further back than that. but with all of these things going on

with all of this complexity, it comes with, with conflict. we see. so much displacement and what we're dealing with right now is a really humanitarian nightmare. because with that conflict, again, we're losing our access, our staff. so many humanitarians, they fall under greater and security. it's tougher to reach. a greater number of people and the resources are stretched. so all of this complexity is leading again to a higher number of displaced children and families that really have access to so very little you hear stories of sugar needing once a day once every couple of days, a lot of negative coping mechanisms that exist within the camps so you know, we look for a greater solution in terms of the complexity of this area. but in the meantime, there is a true price it's, it's happening in the eastern d, r. c. in the camps, around gulf and within government itself, which is facing really by unprecedented pressure criminality. and so many challenges that are really weighing down the city and really tip of finding this

crisis advance. well, david, to your point about the humanitarian crisis, my understanding is that in terms of surface area and 23, no controls roughly half of north keep. so what's it like for a family, normal congolese family that lives in that house of north quito? what's it like for them under m, 23 control that we made a reference to? i think some of the social and economic challenges and gama is fairly large part by a large swath of shooting territory or must easy. so as these areas get cuts, um, you know, vegetables principal go right in the fields, prices go higher and go marks. so really good spot on both sides that you're facing . a lot of these challenges pertaining to a greater food in security, a poor economic picture, less money in the pockets of people a greater strain on the family structure. so whether you're in one part of north keeble or the other part of both sides are really dealing us and i think both sides and that's when i talk about side,

they're talking about children again and families and communities are really banging for a longer term durable solution because everybody is really feeling the effects either directly through having to flee or indirectly again from social, economic and, and all these political kind of factors that make themselves known in the day to day reagan who within the international community, if anyone is helping out because i was trying doing some research before the show on the various outside forces that are in the region, trying to pacify extensively. the area, the, there's the menus go to the u. n. force but they were asked to pull out, they were asked to withdraw, so they started in 2024 just last year they started withdrawing until this renewed and $23.00 offensive. and the government paused the withdrawal of un troops. that's my understanding right now. there's also the east african beg your pardon, east african regional force that also appears to have been a failure in so far as the congolese government ask them to leave as well. so

what's the status of outside groups trying to help? yes. oh yeah, that's the other part going back as soon as we are saying, yeah, actually the reason monitors call, but when you scroll hobbs friends so far, that's what we can say option it. and they and they have been for, you know, the situation. no, didn't say in the uh, adf crises, but also we've been a guess of the, i'm group. we've just seen that because here we have speaking our about attempting to see. but we, it's important to remember that there is a lot of i'm group activity and yeah, see, and they are having a real impact on the, the lives of people. so that's really important to remember that ends when it's come to the original forces. of course we have the somebody of this it, which is the mission from desktop africa, regional developments, the community. and so far we have the south africa, honest. we have my loudly on,

and then just call me where when the, the, the says fly out was a negotiated. so, so 5. so it'd be difficult to, uh, to evaluate the team back into the grout buds. i don't believe that the we have uh, a big uh, big boss that the new school fed and it's enough for garbage in order for us. so that's what reagan hold on to the very clear you're saying that you and forces failed. you're saying the east african forces failed and you're saying it's too early to tell whether the south african, the southern african forces are having any impact. yes, that's what i'm saying. and again, they, they are here, but they, they, they, they are not very, not the number, you know. so i don't know when into the dress and that's uh after,

but i'm not even sure that they, we do the got dropped on the ground as well. that okay, this is solomon, there has been multiple attempts at a peace deal, or at least at cease fire has multiple cease fires, have been announced over the years. and they've all broken down the latest, serious, robust attempt at securing peace for the region and finding some kind of political settlement between congo and rolanda was in december. but that broke down before the presidents of both countries even met. why is this particular conflict? why does it seem impervious to any and all attempts at, at making peace 1st, it's important to understand that there is a deep mistrust between the governments in contrast and got it. uh, and the regional and international effort for mediation,

obviously goes all the way back to the 1st i'm time. see a 1000000000 in print prints, print safety. and if you recall from the time i think it's important to remember that uh, the in a serious problem of defining what the nature of this program is. that is the problem, a political problem. and then for requiring a part of the consultation for which there is a need for having and sitting down eaten mediation pulses in a piece stock. that's the, the 1st part of the other part to actually the kind of military or security major stuff may be taken in order to actually did with this. like you did, i mention of the crisis. i don't thing the, there is arguments between the particles about what the nature of the problem needs and thoughts them together with the mistress, credit this, this problem. okay. want to share a timeline with our viewers on just the most recent attempts that at the suppliers

and p separates been several times in the last 12 months alone. so in december talks between the rwandan and calling the lead leaders were called off after disagreement on the terms of a deal. that's what we were referring to earlier. earlier in august, this is a 2024 and goal, a mediated a fragile truth which temporarily these tensions along the front lines. but that com was short lived because by october m, 23 fighters had resumed their offensive against the congolese army. and at least also something we mentioned earlier, 7000000 people have been displaced internally and another 1000000. i fled the neighboring countries in just the past few years. david, a, a nice question if you will allow me this. if you just look at the map of this region of africa, d r c is by far the largest country. it is 90 times bigger in terms of for a surface area. then tiny ro, wanda, edits door step and it is almost 10 times more populous. then rolanda,

how come and i understand this is a very basic reading of the situation, but how come congo can't bring the resources the beer to secure the northeastern the northeastern part of the country? as you call that, a simple question is actually, again, very complex. it's a profound question that again can go back to 1960 the independence of the country and even before bass with belgium's role within, you know, pre independence. just to understand again, congo as a very large country is you say that there's kind of aspects that go to construct. so then you look to the south which is more again, mining and industrial squared zambia. and then you have again the great lakes, which is which is eastern d r c. and i think the congo, the state has always been again, kind of, it's been kind of played with it's, there's been a lot of kind of external pressure towards the d. r. c, so i wouldn't necessarily call that week,

but i can understand just the complexities of being able to in an area with some limited infrastructure in a place that again, it is managed by can shots. so which is about 2000 kilometers wage. so there are some natural, i guess you can call them maybe socio economic or political blockages that have led to a situation which again has gone on for over 30 years since again, you can say 1994 or even before that. and part of it is really telling the greater history of, of the region itself. but again, we find ourselves in a situation with all of this story and complexity where we have hundreds of thousands of children and families suffering due to this situation. and i think that my colleagues have done a great job and explaining so many of the factors, i think that there is still where we find ourselves today. and that is it a situation which is increasingly precarious with greater displacement and, and i would say a somewhat negative outlook for the future if my ccs being taken. what does this mean for so many families live in and around?

i'm a cc. what are the implications, again, to the resources that are available for those that have been displaced? unfortunately, these are, you know, good answers to these questions. we're concerned about a great, great limited number of resources. and what this is going to mean for the future of the d r c. specifically for eastern b, a c. and 2025 is lady quite in challenging for all of us. yeah, david, look where it will ended there. um and you, you raise obviously what is the central question here, which is the fate of the millions of people who live in this part of the, or seeing what happens to them and their safety and their access to the very basic necessities um, i'd like to think or guess for joining us? there were a lot of threads to pull on and this conversation reagan be very solid and durso and david monthly. thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website. that's alpha 0. com for further discussion, go to our facebook page at facebook dot com, forward slash a inside story. you can also join the conversation on x and instagram are handled

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