we are to see the series of legend, some gloves and the stories of civilizations that marks history wants. this is where the story of vanity, how many stories to tell a social moment in austria's history the far right leader is invited to form a government for the 1st time since world war 2. will harvest kick will succeed in striking a coalition deal and provide stable leadership? and what could that mean? friendly chris? this is inside story. the hello and welcome to the program and 0 of any a austria could soon joined

a growing number of european union countries led by the far right. months of negotiation led by the conservative austrian people's party, ended with no coalition. and the president a left wing, former green's leader, had been left with little choice, but to look even further to the right. the freedom party or s p o is anti immigration and pro russian. it was founded in the fifty's, but one election to the 1st time in september, with almost a 3rd of the vote. a field leader herbert kick will is due to begin negotiations with the conservatives. he will be hoping to emerge as the chancellor. so will he succeed and if he does, what does the future look like? the austria is ailing economy and its significant immigrant population will address these issues in a moment for so sonya video has this update from vienna. the goal is family in the colts of the far right leader of the freedom policy hub. but okay, cool. okay, cool. has the task of trying to produce a coalition government with the conservative people's party. now it has been the

job of the people's policy to try and cover together a coalition with the social democrats and another policy, another liberal policy. those discussions had been in place since the elections in september with those talks collapse over the weekend, leaving it out to the task of the freedom policy to try and bring about coalition government. however, it was the freedom policy that one most votes in the election. but the problem was that the other parties refused to enter into coalition tools with the freedom policy for the people that we have been speaking to somehow even welcome. the idea of us are more doubtful about this prospect. i find the whole situation a bit dubious, and most of which policy comes to power. so we'll have to see where it takes the country. is it all shocked? is worrying especially for people with disabilities. it will take us banquets, they'll be no more inclusion to freedom party and people spots. he wants to cut

budgets for social services, it will take us back and alert to learn about it. they were far right. politicians and lots of countries. it's really, for example, and other places to politics is always changing and austria needs something new. that's what i think. the real question is of how stable of governments, with the far right freedom policy would be forced. this wouldn't be the 1st time that they would be in a governing coalition, but it would be the 1st time since world war 2 is that a fall right presents would be leading a government. and so people who have re reservations about this, especially around issues like immigration, will have a pickle has certainly made his use known about this. he has proposed a policy such as re migration and preventing people from bringing family members over from that countries of origin and also bringing about this idea of full

austria. and i say that who says also with all the nash just previously used in europe, such as victor over on man who is closely aligned with me in politics and suddenly of the issue of immigration. sonya got jago vienna, oliver's era inside story. so let's bring in or get cindy and michael boone by law as a journalist and author of the book about the po in bathroom a u. k. over the i'm on done as a senior lecturer at the university of bath or research extremism and racism in europe. also in vienna for and heart lab as a political consultant and experts and for right movements. welcome to all of you to inside story michael. let's start with you. herbert kick will seems likely. i think you'll agree to become the next chancellor of austria. he has the best chance of forming a coalition. it's his job now to form a coalition with the conservative. a couple of things for viewers to know about him

. he runs the p. o, a party which is founded by a former nazis back in the 19 fifties and he's referred to himself as folks counselor the people's chancellor, which is also how hitler was addressed and referred to at times. and beyond that, who is he and what are his political belief? the 1st song, silent d'angelo from the no. yeah. basically you mentioned that the freedom upon it was founded by noxious in the 1950s. by the way, i would say informing us, just because the informal not to me, that you really change you ideology. but basically what happened is a 1945, the national socialist party was forbidden. of these people who stayed strong was the believe so. and they then fold and you bought it, that was the freedom of the day of the and so this party is entirely um, i do logically of build within right from next to the framework and far i framework

. and that's for how much is coming from. have a teachers, so choose somebody who is really deeply rooted in deposit. he was a long time um uh, organizational secretary, she wasn't impala man for the answer for a very long time. and now he became the leader of the party. it seems that he is a little less erratic than some of the, of the, of the, the, the other uh on the latest pdf who has far, which one of them has cuz done stuff. he blew himself up in a big scandal. the so called scandal and she some small clearly by the case of because he seems very ideological and we'll see what we look at. but what a sure, i think it will come to that later on is that what we will see now? probably a really hard social causes against the big majority of the flight. for in what is

the policy on integration? he calls it her, but kick will cause that fortress austria. that's the umbrella term for his vision to australia. what is fortress austria? the other question is kind of really obedient, resent mytrasia big the policy um, being the age to talk about the nation i states. and so you can, you and you have to be helpful. so the specialist and migration within the european countries to be helpful. so the patient on how to deal, it's important to be something business man, talk seat 10 over the how to teen which is 10 inches. what are the policies and what are the main policies that he sold during the campaign on immigration last about this year? because people are seeing the changes in his societies and they don't kinds of societies. i mean from germany,

they seem to think chevy migration yourself. uh you show me see also the tan waste and they said that the issue is showing me at us. but the most successful, the type of yeah, and obviously the tailor space calling staff. we also have defined senior research ex, um in germany this year. and this as far as people uh, phase of the future. michael, my understanding is he had pretty specific policies which were a pausing asylum seekers from entering the country and banning asylum seekers from ever becoming citizens. yeah, that's true. basically what the freedom public does is a try to set up um, people who have migration be off by august. the asylum seekers escaped godes and then, and we've seen that when the end of the government is last time between 2017 of

2019, what they do is the general public. they talk about asylums because they talk about migrant. and was that argument, they then put forward social cups of those social cups that affects the entire population. so basically what they are doing is scape golding with mike ranch to build for strong social causes against the attractive the belief. well hey, yeah, you're a senior electra and you're research extremism and races and in europe, where would you place the ppo in this galaxy that you study on this sliding scale of racism and extreme is where are they on that scale? or should they not be put on that scale? but i think speaking in terms of scale, there's always probably not a crime because i think it's not necessarily yes spectrum, but we're looking at i think it's something that is much more likely. and the son of teaching of era asked me to tennessee in, in recent years and think he's in many ways to get this all right or weeks from right. but if we want to college exception lising to as way where we see them as

kind of like, doesn't do mine in a way and by we see them as like the, you know, you happy to be your politics. but i think what i've been looking at, and what i've tried to do with my research is that we will still need to look at the role of nature not to is. and the way mainstream not to is way that we want to prevent centuries moderates liberal or whatever. and the way these doctors are helped to normalize these politics. and the reason why we have the, like i said, you know, i talked to you that was founded by nazis. i think it's on our today. and of course it's probably about us changed over the years, right. it's not the same package that anybody within that i can just use, but it's still very much apologize for my apologies. bye bye. was the conditions. no, but we haven't gone to like the subject gave some power. but we have also some of the policies that they just bought. well, you know, in the countries in europe, any number of places in the world oh empower even think tells us a lot about how the do not allow us to come back to the main screen. of politics, you know, these would have been incredible to think about it about these kind of things like 40 years ago. even said to use it. but when you 1st started to rise again, 9 belong to ninety's with your high to my percent off. at the point us and i

transfer you understand that he doesn't, you know, be with, do you see and i told you man, and now they are accepted by mainstream offices, by mainstream policies. and, but when she brought into combinations, i think this is deeply worried and then i say the, they're not because can i jump in? i felt discuss this a little later. but since you bring this up, now i do want to understand what this is. you've written about this, the main streaming of the extreme right by the leads. okay. politicians, academics and the media. can you explain that to us? yep. right. and i think it's because okay, cool. i think something about pretend to, to leave towards the end of august of the base or to a, towards the end of a kind of closer to what the end of the sticker article and so on. but i think if we want to understand the research and so far i bought a diesel crisis demo, actually some, even, i think we really need to think about the who has our, who has power to say yes. and i was asked by what the frame of the debate and these power is not the same. the hands of all right back to is always product is this power is in the frame is in the hands of mainstream actors by right keys,

the mainstream media, including the broadsheet 0 and media, we are these mainstream publications from the center left, the center, right, and so on, you know, these people have opened the doors to file, right, by gig spike a big house sold by what, by, for example, putting the crashing issue from the center. you know what it looks like in my research is that actually, you know, people only concerns about about integration when they think about the accounts for you when they think about the day to day last, integration is not a consensus. and i think we need to question these ideas, how he, how he's with the company. how is probably going to be informed. you know, people don't answer, pause, don't go to vote. in fact, you have ideas, but i've been shared by the media by people around and by it used to be by religious institutions, by web pages, and so help inform it from that vision of the world. you ever think that here impact the debate? integration being thoughtful, that country and try to then they will start thinking, but yes, impression is a key issue. but actually when people think about the day to day nice, this is not

a key issue. the key issue is healthcare. the key issues box is the case with the patient, his patients, you know, and it's exactly what the other speaker on the final i said before, you know, it's all right, has no answer to the many crises. but we all, we, all the on the skate goes, but in that case, how do you explain that? yes, you can say, i mean, yeah, go ahead and just go ahead. absolutely. go ahead like what i said, i totally agree with what you said. and just to make that clear and then you know, maybe more concrete way. i did a research on like the real situated situation. yeah. and what we can see is that the crime rate, indiana is cost. i was thinking, since you used when you're off people on the streets, they won't tell you that the crime, especially the link crime that also to migration is a very big part because we can see that that was the sibling of true. oh wow. yeah . who does what i also some, some belie media do. and what also other apologies like the conservative trying to

a try to make people feel insecure and then try to gain something dollars isn't. that's the real problem. so i totally agree, but it's, but it's, i mean if it's working, there must be something there that people feel or believe if they actually go and vote for the parties that make this the main plank of their policy platform. no. to . i think uh, susan likes the, i know for example cause you will have some crime. so we are not one of the in the united states. but when we, when we have a look of how we develop overall life and 20 started 40 years. so we can see that it's really going to go, but many people offer open, remember really good. what have like 1020 years ago. but when you see the papers every, every day, you know, then you have lines. there was crime, there was crime,

there was crime. and so the people who get fewer and fewer, that's what the far right takes there. uh. successful of foot floor and i saw you raise your hand a couple of times. thanks for your patients. what did you want to say? yeah, so it's the for, it's very clear that a socialist site that she thought said very code on by this page. so there was an option and it was seattle data and coordination against. i mean, if he didn't talk to you about the test face, so we also have to talk about the establish 4 digit good policies and the underbrush. i know the percentage of, uh, democracy's in your office is receiving or stand show many and unfortunately, i mean, yeah, this applies this moment and certainly um, seeing unpredicted sealed show you don't know how it's going to show up. it's very

tough. it's actually one of those use to, to ask uh, to completion honest, i mean the thing is safe and then we also have to make something a couple of need send, send everything to the situation, is a public channel or also due to the disorder. and it should uh, yeah, maybe. so i think there's one question i have which is at the intersection of what you've all been saying. we said we said multiple times, this party, the po in australia was founded by nazis. this was decades ago in the fifty's of course, but that is still, those are the routes that is the origin. and they just secured almost 30 percent. right? 29th, 28.85 percent in the last election. so close to a 3rd of austria and voters voted for them over the left, over the social democrats, over the conservatives, etc, etc. and yet, i don't think anyone is saying we're thinking that almost

a 3rd of austria and voters or nazi sympathizers. so how, how do you square that circle floor and go ahead. yeah, this isn't because there's a big it is uh, biggest argument. but if i, if i, if i could follow the steps uh, was not as good as a nazi pocket. they also have, um, i know i to be documented with associate democrats, and it's the way you see which the i'm sure honey and it was scheduled to blame is that 40 different boxes. nonsense. but it doesn't bring us the fault because we have to deal with this issue. us know, i think the trying to understand the word choice or not to positive even if it is very difficult. no, i think what it is is certainly from the questions i'm asking is i think we kind of need to have a strong foundation of understanding where the support is coming from. why people are voting for them that's. that's what i'm getting a i think i think we need to understand that, but i think that's a bit of

a self fulfilling prophecy as well because for many years as the highest even. but my default right, doesn't do particularly well be of a center of attention. you know, for example, i mean it's quite a time in today as you all know who to then jumped on it and just just passed away . not but the 2002 in france went to the point us and that and reading made express the mass you break for which on the bank or to a 2nd around the presidential election. it was flashed over the use of the front page is what we're talking about talking about and about how curie was about the best way to just kind of see what we totally, these do 2002 by just looking at the boating and we don't we don't do looking at extension for example, we've got something that actually the trans emerging here was working and so on. what we talking about talking about in 2002 got normal 5, it's funny. going to 1995 owing 1998 in 2002 was back in 18. what happened in 2002? and it's very much similar to what happened being in australia, in the recent elections, but also in the countries around the world with about right, as well as microsoft to use all government all failing to for and i'll send it to

you by his defense. and so we only have to keep a suspect the right picture, he goes to increasing the multi point to each remains a minority of a population. keep in mind, but for example, there was almost a quarter of a certain, but this we did not turn of the election. and so the vast majority of streams to kind of go to did not vote for us to be what forced to go to talk if they don't like either solely, i'll send an option between the bad and the worse and the point of views by distinction all the buyer is less and less appealing. what we need is the proper alternatives. but at the moment we don't have these alternatives unfortunately. and when we do that, we have, for example, in france and the rest of the election in about one decided to inspect side with the, with the rock and the bar right from about to actually do. but if the chance. so i think, you know, again, you know, going back to the main screen of us, all right? a, as a result of the actions of nature not to is i think that's what we need to look at . the reason the far right is becoming more up to the limited way it is because of

the main street. i st you're, it's because the main street offices, it's one thing is i was researching this. i was looking at the pulling trends for the last few years of f. p. o, and it's quite notable. the rise occurs from early 2020. they were very low. they were the 4th party in opinion polls. they were the 4th party in austria. that by late 2019 and they did not do particularly well in the they were like 1213 percent forgive me. i don't remember the exact number and the 2019 legislative election. they were low at the time. and then starting early, 2022 basically next 4 years. it's an uninterrupted rise and you see them taking over the, the left and then the conservative. and i wonder, is there something that explains the rise starting early 2020 till now. till then becoming the winner and the main party, the 1st party in austria. michael, perhaps this is one for you. oh, well, basically the price touch the point of the for the vote,

numbers and the and then of course, yeah, but basically the freedom party was already at around sort of person 28 percent in the year, 2000. and then they took, the government was the, comes over to the 1st and then really big level within that. and then in 2007, 2. so the age of a really small that there were rising up again up to 2017 to 2016. let's say different, really strong. then the government again was the freedom positive. and then that exploded the can. so what you seem to so, so i think it's a total exposure of the party off the big scandal about the corruption about the financial issues. and then what happens is uh a frodo or the formula i have just desktop out of the on it. and then to rebuild it . okay. so basically, since uh, let's say 1999 to saw who we have is part of the for all 2528. so it is. so it is 2

percent, 2016 already at the presidential election. they had 49 percent of the vote, but then they really exploded in a corruption scandal. and now they are growing up against the people where there and also be because it was mentioned before. there is like a running gag in all students. money gig is called the so called a single case. it's info fair. that's always said when there was a new knox capital in the india food coming up. so people because they have good interest. yeah, well that's just this only case, but there are like oh we cases and for fe left. so we can really see the option not just have 2 choices that can either go to, to prison, where the out of the if, because then there is mueller some last which, which goes to have them, or they can go into the food that they can build maybe go to follow them and so the

reason is absolutely far corner of the body also with. busy may organization, the so called flu shots, the students organizations, fashion students, organizations, and they build the ideal watch for the car off the cottage till today and people oh, that's okay, that's the point. so we shall be, we should be very clear that we have about 5 minutes left. so i'll ask all of you to keep your answers a little tight. so i can hear from all of you on this. i'd like to broaden it out in the last 5 minutes that we have to a more europe wide perspective because you can't, you know, you can't miss the fact that the far right is on the rise across the european union . so today we're talking about australia, but the far right is in power in the netherlands. hungry is the poster boy, obviously for the far right and europe. the far right is also a partner and government is the block you. what am i missing? well, italy, italy, you could always to the georgia,

maloney has kind of mainstreamed her views, parties and policies since she came to power. and the far right has been on the rise in france, even though they're not in government. so this is, there's a europe wide, something happening. and my question is, what is that something florian, do you want to go 1st? and the problem is i try the migration and it feels i cannot make these design. russell, is that the issue with eating this a teacher to society and saying that i may also always going further in your home how strongly so you'll be doing. yeah, well try to be is it the end? okay, is this tendency of sound? so it's just very top's thinking, very difficult and i'm not sufficient mistake up on the next 510 years in this case . okay, so you're saying migration, seidel, questions, economic decline, and also questions about governance in europe itself. um for you? yes. and last, i'm sorry, go ahead. yeah, i can finish that goes to my,

my students on the 4th the year. so not reading the newspapers anymore. they're going to take talk moves until all the pharmacist is also the question of, uh, of a video saturday's information. unfortunately, okay, tell them to watch the houses are ohio. yeah, i would say i would say the easiest. i'm much deeper. and i would say that the issue is not very much to do we've. we've never bought the institutions at the moment, which i prove completely unable not to resist or either of us, all right, but also to offer alternatives for many crosses by to york in countries. but the wealth of facing, you know, we're going to be trying to change the rise of getting quantities advocate with crisis, providing new product response, no profit, hope, but something better could come up. of course, with bridge these kind of toxic politics and this kind of state coaching that we see on the far right. so rather than the rise over fluoride resist that you are measuring politics and of mainstream different institutions. michael was basically, uh, the, mainly the last and beginning is uh they are failing to give concerts to the social

cultural stuff many people have. and that was also mentioned on migration migrant. some of the problem people never a problem. so we should be very clear on that, but also under the law, i think the futures are written, so it's very unclear of what happens this new government. now if it comes to power, will make hard social cuts on the population. and we'll see people will stand out, people will goals, 5 people look all the streets and then we'll see how stable does the government list. well, to your point about the future being unwritten, i'll squeeze in one last question for really and i'll throw this one to you and there may not be, it may not be possible to answer this question. in fact, it isn't, but i just want your thoughts on. um, do you think this is a high watermark where we are right now for the fall right in europe, this is as you know, as, as, as strong as showing as we're going to see from the far right in europe. or do you think we're on the, at the beginning of things to come in but seems to get much with it doesn't have to

be for a be let you know. all right, boss is that sounds, but it could just be from the presentation. all right, going to expire by all right, so as you know we, we proceed, for example, we, we have to go to control also for media, other people who control on the job and so on. and i think i think much, much was gonna happen unfortunately. and i think it's very urgent but, but you know, registered says it is put against these. all right, gentlemen, thank you so much to all our guest. so joining us today as michael below oregon, london and floor in the heart live and thank you to for watching, you can see the program again any time by visiting our website down to 0 dot com. and for further discussion, good, our facebook page, that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. you can also drawing the conversation on x and instagram or handler at a inside store for lease, or was an old team here in the off by the

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