it costs in the united states main for the rest of us, from global markets and economies to construction small businesses should that be beyond to asked if people have spent a lifetime working that part of the answer to understand how it affects the nights with still remain before we can truly say that we are in say, tax rate, counting the cost on o g, a 0 a from a now present in 5 areas. that's the don in what a senior un official says is a humanitarian by system side going proportion is millions address space. and the us now says, genocide is taking place. so what's the well doing for the people of saddam? this is inside story, the

hello and welcome to the program. i'm fairly bad. people in less than 2 years civil war has brought catastrophe to sit on a crisis of the med scale. there is only getting worse phase the united nations. i knew you in battery for says simon conditions. aust, spreading nearly 25000000 people half the population are facing acute food shortages. millions have been forced to move or flee the country, the world's largest displacement of people by conflict today and its last 10 days in office. the binding administration has announced the rapids support forces which has been fighting the sudanese army since april 2023 has carried out genocide. so how is the situation worse me? why i so many more people now in danger and what's being done to end the conflict will talk to our guest shortly. but 1st, this from victoria gave to me and warning her report contains images view as might find distressing. after nearly 2 years of fighting in sudan,

the scale of human suffering is catastrophic researches from the london school of hygiene and tropical medicine estimate more than 61000 people have been killed. 26000 as a direct result of the violence. the rest from starvation and disease the situation is worse than since the army launched and offensive to take banks of capital from the permanent tree. rapid support falls in september, december sofa. the escalation of the fighting, including exams, i'm displacement, come with civilians killed and injured by artillery, selling and reports of those seeking to leave the camp being blocked from doing so . do you and says move in 12000000 people have been forced to leave the home since april 20, 238800000 within the countries. boat is another 3300000 crossing into neighboring countries, including egypt, chad and south sudan,

a global hunger monitoring system, known as i p c says 5 areas of facing famine. more than 24000000 sudanese will experience high levels of food and security by may conflict and force displacement women in the primary drivers of this crisis, exacerbated by restricted humanitarian access, sustain violence. and deacon nomic turmoil have disruptive markets. and it also driven prices of staple goods to on affordable levels. fighting abrupt dude after a power struggle between the head of the army, abdel, such a elva, and just form a deputy mate. how many times on deck. lo, if the rapid support forces us all over the united states accuses the recess and its allies, its committing genocide during the capture of most of west of full states. it says the group has systematically attacked civilians targeting particular ethnic groups and carried out mass rate attempts by the us. saudi arabia i'm afraid to broke or

sustain ceasefire. i have sales sedan is now looking to president elect donald trump, the help we think. uh, president trump is a did rick who would be there ready to strike a deal with we would be ready there to select the deed was we are not coming to an empty handed rehab or a blueprint to engage with the u. s. at all times, as the conflict intensifies, most civilians are at risk that say for the international community has had little success in securing humanitarian access. oh, bringing the fighting to an end. victoria gates and b l g 0, the inside story. the best now bringing our guests from london, we joined by hollywood high, who was a political analyst who specializes in research on a policy on to don. and the horn of africa in geneva is dr. location capella, who was the united nations resident and humanitarian coordinator for so don in 2003

in 2004. he was vocal about the atrocities a he witnessed him down for and infinity goss capital. the car is out of my jang, the african union, especially in boy on the prevention of genocide. welcome to you all. thank you so much for joining us on inside story home to, to hire in london. if i can start with you, we have today one of the worst worst humanitarian crisis, a war that's creating mass funding as we've heard. and will be a, you know, delving deeper into that in just a moment. but i wanted to get your reaction 1st to the us declaring and determining that the, our assess. and it's all lies that committing genocide in to dot. and so dawn today, what do you make of that and, and what do you think has motivated this decision? now i think it's high time the united states made this designation. we have, we know that the us has been sitting on information about the atrocities being committed

by the hours of, for some time, the roll them bucks into the yale sedan bar tree and observatory, excuse me, the human rights watch, obviously, international. all of them have readings, reports that say that those atrocities were committed, effectively amount to genocide. um, so this is not exactly as surprising. what is surprising is the timing. i think it's very interesting that divided instruction chose to throw this grenade effectively in the jump directions, template ministrations way because they are the ones we're going to have to deal with the different magic full out with also naming the united arab emirates and their engagements with the r as s, all right, out of my jang. your reaction as the special envoy, the african union, special envoy on preventing genocide. how do you view this decision by washington? especially when itself the us itself has been accused of facilitating severe human rights abuses and genocide. in the gaza strip, what difference do you think this determination is going to make into that?

well, it is very sad. i mean, uh oh, do we have been c r, a big committee the last 21 months in. so that waiting today. wow. to leave these got, i think the station and does make a determination while trying to say of course, that they have been deliberating for management to me is, is kind of, i would say, to do that. this doesn't use those cities. we are not allowed to play with the lives of the sudanese, the students people have been suffering for so long. and i by says have raise this issue with many aspect of the this. remind me about the responsibility. it was in 2000 when they agreed that never they gave, they would allow genocide counts against matching what types to be committed under

the eyes when they see people are facing that reason they have the obligation to feed that piece out of the for it's but be awesome, can you can consider mr. adam a j i what way if i can ask you, miss adam a jane, what will this us determination of genocide do effectively, could it paved the way for additional international action? does it put the own is not on the different doctors in this conflict in so don b, u a for example, which has been accused of, of backing the our assess, well, i only hope that it will be applied in court for all member states of signatories of the general side convention about data of vacation, depth responsibility to prevent the crime of zillow site. and as you know, these conventions start with defense and before even refreshing the punishment. so

it is michael that the boards of, uh, just the bus man of the month. right. because such that as the stocking base, because what he's quoting for, awaiting the what impact fees to stop in the detroit and meant buffering notes of independent photos to make sure that sidney and the boat police an output to get into that. i mean, to me, uh we, it is very unfortunate because what happen guys uh, which ease of genocide and i made it clear in your tv at the time. and i was just select by some of the particulars of the icy see i have been insisting on so that the investigation be carried in a way to enable the prosecutor to get the evidence. and it said what's that?

i would need both general behind and commit to about step responsibility. i asking clearly to hand where is see if today is in the documents and mean what is extremely important is to make sure that the perpetrators of these crimes ones identify investigation being carried on properly be brought to justice and the less not to be taken at post page just talking about the tools and supplies. yes. to have has to be done, but we need also to address the group policies of dissertation instead of 20 years ago in the will remind us. yes. and let's bring one more cash on that to get the cash to double cash copy. that was indeed there in 820032004 location i.

i wanted to get your thoughts about the situation today and how it compares, of course, to what you witnessed when, when you were in. so don, but more specifically about this us action location could be that when announcing the designation of genocide on to the blinking, the us secretary of state said that the us does not support either side of the call face. but he specifically pointed the finger at the r a says, and it's our lives in the are itself, of course, as you know, image of the notorious from the notorious dungeon weed, munitions that committed atrocities and on for in 2003. how do you view this, you a section and do you think it's going to make any difference on the ground in? so dawn, today it was in the us statement. do so well come in stating what i think most of the actors have completed the some time ago, but it is politically too late. coming to the tail end of this administration, a point, it's already been a part of being made. i think the us is ability to actually extract any uh,

any action is so limited and i honestly don't get the drum administration is going to make this the prior year due to the beginning to come to an earlier question on the how is this different from could you a just a good one of the you and the chief, the well, the situation this part was today that it was put 2 years ago. good 2 years ago when i show to the terrible things ever going on and in that full, it's like the security constitution. it like to refer to the stuff to come have goals, a leg to, uh decide to just type in declared. and the documents are being made. it elects to you in the ask in union, the peacekeeping forces on the ground while uh, how did you do that in the $100000.00 sir? displaced the, there's been this, i bring the dentist, i did come toilet today. none of the fact that i mentioned apply the security council needs to finalize the supervisor are distracted. can union dues,

what's the use list? i'm sorry to say adama and the i think the we have a, uh, it just does pulling across purposes. it just says people supporting different sizes to join agencies themselves. what did the task got to be done? what do you think of the response this time has been so effective and ineffectual? is it a case that the international community doesn't care box to dawn or more a case when you look at the humanitarian situation, for example, of not being able to physically get aid on the ground. what, what, what is the root cause of this neglect? from the international community you think? i don't think the word doesn't to get i. i really believe that people don't. i'm going to get enough for go elsewhere around the peace of mind to give them the front of them in the world as well. and then why doesn't bring the most attention is what they've reaching months? no, i don't think it started. i think what did you lose at the options available to make

an intervention are much more difficult ones, for example, on the humanitarian side, which is a very germane to this whole level of discussion. i think i'm like, previous there is whether you haven't had more robust approaches where it had a notification approach to getting a into conflict areas of to officer done with the seem to move now to a permission seeking approach. because turner through the contested. then even in our as a controlled areas, that's uh, so disney's armed forces. but if i put them in how to get permission before you can use ads, right, and so on. so that's one thing that you run into bold enough. secondly, i think there's not enough support just because you might have getting not just to do a lot of the of the, of the lifting it all of this. that's one thing. i'm on the political side. i think the point is people are a people are more interested in doing deals with incoming them. us presidents,

when they deal has to be done between the 2 sides. and that it has to come from within, from civil society involvement from disability and like this process is which i know i mentioned in passing, but quite honestly, nobody take some very seriously. so a whole lot of, of the political inconsistencies as well as i think you might, you might have to, to how this on behalf of the international matters in is, is a plane. you decide the millions on the verge of starvation incidence. okay. and allow itemizing to respond in just a moment to, to the you, you saying location to figure out that the african union has been, are useless and to slice in this crisis. but let me bring in a whole load for a salute. the finding that you and says that's finding why conditions are now present in 5 areas of. so dawn, even though the, the government has denied this, what do you know is the reality of the situation on the ground today? what, what can you tell us about what's happening on the ground? and do you agree with location about why the reasons behind this, this neglect,

it would seem from the international community? i think, you know, the institutional barriers that add up to more cash layouts are all very validated by do think the sit on is seen as a low priority area. and more importantly it's, you know that, that what is happening. and so that is sort of refracted through the lens of allies of either the us or russia, etc, in the region. and so, so down is not really seen on its own terms. and it seemed very clearly that the amount of terry catastrophe incident does not move political decisions. you know this, for example, done side. does it, does it nation determination excuse me? it was not made because, and you know, of anything that was happening on the ground necessarily, but more to do with the political dynamics in washington. and what we have seen when it comes to the humanitarian aid, you know, obstacles, and lots of pop human has created those obstacles for itself by recognizing one of the pleasure in parties at the cities on forces of the government. and therefore,

instituting a whole set of blockages for its own state for its own self. it is not to move that for 5 and needs as a mentor and imperative to act, but rather by some kind of state member states. and uh, you know, push towards about having some kind of government in place. so you were saying, what are you saying hold on that the un itself is obstructing this delivery of a to is that the case today? i'm saying the un is how stringing its own efforts by recognizing might have to be during policies as the government. and this means that it cannot override any of the different types it gets from, for example, pull to then, of course, by that same token, the reputable sources also want to be recognized as a government because they see this a symmetry. and now there's also talk of a rapid supports of forces, setting up a government in the areas as soon as this week. and obviously this to just genocide determination puts a huge dent in, in the ability to do so, because the credibility is shots and it has been soft as it needs people for awhile

. but any legitimacy that might be able to cool from the international community has been dented by this genocide determination. had that been done early, i think it could be potentially in a better place in terms of some standing in the way of the what looks like the almost inevitable splits of the country. now what i think needs to happen is exactly what we're catch, that there are local actors on the ground who have been delivering monetary in a. but the united nations again, has put a lot for, you know, the large part. we even know of them a has multiple leaned into the playstation agenda as much as it should have, but the blame doesn't stuff that, you know, i totally agree with the cache of the african union has been completely to this in many ways. it has also listed in the way of its own action, primarily by sort of capitulates. and if you will, to the political interest all for example, regional acts of especially in the gulf. okay, let's allow adam. i jang, the african union, special envoy on the prevention of genocide, to respond to that. and i don't know as well. uh, it is very unfortunate that the opposite. the union has been failing the

people of sedan when it comes to protecting the civilians. and that he may know that at the time i got even suggested that for us to be deployed. but we, oh no. that's uh when we speak about the rights of the asking union the, you know, it's not very clear where to it. i have to uh receive the go ahead, the green light from the 6 the got the button not by my own view is that had the being strong political. we a to disagree in doing so that it would have been possible we have seen in the past when the in the 2000 when one that decided to probably it's to, to do to do that for me. and i think it is simply the shame that said

in this, yeah, we have come a more thinking the 31st. i mean, for us, we a big enough side separated against the season one to which prompted in fact the asked them union in 2000 the $77.00, both and optic of for each of the consent to difficult to remain. so that's the, i mean, why this bescedy t, i mean, we all know that there are also these, you know, uh for the seas around, we know that sometimes when it comes to making a bow, a decision, it is not that easy, right? that is why the chip doesn't have to asking them himself during the come or isn't of the 25th to any but sort of the committee, the piece and the beast, johnson of gaps communion made. it said

a t o showing clearly the difficulty is not only regarding the relationship between the rex and the asking, you know, but also if i'm the member states, i'm going to be honest. okay? unless i can lead this coming. somebody in february, look each other in the arms and say, let's go back to adkins cushion. less feels obligation. otherwise just thought to be just of course, those lead to who will be failing this, what it needs to be. but again, i should pay them either as a matter of fact. so donna is a classic example, and look at situation now, is an indictment try to our humanity to have the collective output to failure, to use a mind 90. okay, people of so let me ask more cash cappella then about the way for the v i. p. c. simon review is projecting that 5 additional areas in. so don will face simon in

2025, and that there is a risk assignment in 17 additional areas. so what can be done now today you've talked about some of the reasons the causes. what can be done now to avoid a further humanitarian catastrophe? is there no easy answer so i'm afraid i think the 1st we have to uh, but i don't actually have trouble is that the humanitarian i'm going to good tracks have to be dissociated. not to be comfortable. dr. for me to actually say that when we know that they're only political solutions, it's crisis. but my point here is that to, by spinning out the public dixon, spinning of the diplomacy, both the us own boys, the un on boys and all the on by the original boss. i've actually made the situation worse. what we need to do is to go back to some of the tools that put the plug pretty as go with the high level to manage duty and leadership both with you

in the, in the us administration and regular gain into complex vision which are focused on the humanity and it shows, regardless of the ability to go a context based on the number one objective being to post a true in whatever way possible from all particular directions into the country. and that to make it the top priority. and the politics will slow from that, not the other way around, which we have traditionally believed, because that's really, that's what the traditional, the thinking is. i think i'm afraid hundreds of thousands are going to die in regards to what you say admission pulled ourselves in that, but i really do think you need to update humanity not on the one that it's a general has not shown the district in this particular area. and then, you know, who my 10 coordinator wrote me a yet as he is, i can still have to find him on. i don't think they're doing what they should be doing. and i think the us administration to us the id and the state department for

salt quite take much themselves and put the monitoring on top of the political agenda in the back of the to say. but so please like more that it's more important than saving the student needs mission, hold high. do you agree with location compete or that the humanitarian and political tracks need to be dissociated? we've heard also from this sort of nissan bassett, or a to you in a few days ago who, who expressed face an incoming trump administration, that the us would be able to strike a deal to end to end this conflict. do you, do you believe that this new administration will be more successful in brokering a lasting ceasefire? so there's a difference between the fees, fire and piece do i think that the trumpet ministration can negotiate to cease 5 potentially until i think the jumping to ministration can negotiate that piece deal . not very what much? and the reason for that is that the top administration, you know, in the past, um, as we say, the pos is per log. it hasn't really paid much attention to sit down all the way

down through the lens of the abraham codes. and it will probably continue to do the same, this time, average musical, very much defy to us our lives in the region side. you read the egypt and you have to have average to cut couple together. some kind of sees 5 deal. now that them, by no means means that there's going to be any kind of peaceful resolution to this, to this complex. and it also means that most likely, you know, civilian, active democracy just as accountability. those things will be very much left by the wayside in favor of some kind of military deals. now, even if that happens, i think what with what, what we've seen very much is that the us government is in many ways. so up till now i'm not done actually anything that is very, you know, positive towards moving sit down towards a peaceful resolution by not the linking humanitarian aid from the political track, asthma cache. a said, we have now this sort of hodge podge of approaches that don't really make sense and what it has allowed. the pleasure in the policy is to do chiefly the are assessing

the staff, is to use 8 as a political football is to dictate the terms of aid. and that by also dictate the terms of the peace process, which is why none of them have gone very far. now the since didn't even bother to, to the one who takes is or does very much from the city. news on falls is, is a part of that act to is, you know, in right now, i'm taking pots and, and contributing to simon denial. and this is very much where you want to keep the conversation. they don't want to have a conversation about any piece, do not want it. so the dry season. and that's why they hope to take that call to them into 0. and they want to use this monetary to access the block, which is that they're putting in place the farm and denial as destruction away from the political track. that's why it's essential to the link, the to all right out of my jane, your thoughts as it essential last hold. and we'll cache to de link for humanitarian crisis with the political one. and what decisive actions are needed now, to create, to think lasting patience is on. we need quickly to take a decision. i mean the, the, the, i'm talking about the asking, but i, the pro,

asked him doing an end the united nations 2 days in may get action to really go and take disability. but they can start as well if they want it. we're going to have to leave, it's a, uh, it is an important conversation that we're having and i'm sure that we will keep having it in the next 2 weeks here on alger 0. thank you so much for joining us. who would hire out of my ging and location could be that. thank you for joining us on inside story and thank you to for watching. you can always watch this program again any time by visiting our website at all, just sierra dot com for further discussion. go to our facebook page at facebook dot com forward slash a great inside story. and of course you can join the conversation on x. i handle. is that a great inside story for me, please back to going holstein. thanks for watching by from the

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