the the . ringback the from a now present in 5 areas. that's the don in what a senior un official says is i see 90, terry and 5 system side going proportion is millions address space. and the us now says genocide side. so how is the situation worse? me why i so many more people now in danger and what's being done to end the conflict will talk to our guest shortly. but for us this from victoria gave to me and a warning. her report contains images view as might find distressing. after nearly 2 years of fighting in sudan,

the scale of human suffering is catastrophic researches from the london school of hygiene and tropical medicine estimate moving 61000 people have been killed. 26000 as a direct result of the violence, the rest from starvation and disease. the situation is worse than since the army launched and offensive to take back. the capitals from the permits re record support forces in september, december sofa, the escalation of the fighting, including exams, displacement come with civilians killed and injured by artillery, selling under reports of those seeking to leave the camp being blocked from doing so the you and says moving 12000000 people have been forced to leave the home since april 20, 238800000 within the countries. boat is another $3300000.00 crossing into neighboring countries, including egypt. chad and south sudan. a label hung the monitoring system known as

i p c says 5 areas of facing famine. more than 24000000 sudanese will experience high levels of food and security by may conflict and force displacement limited in the primary drivers of this crisis, exacerbated by restricted humanitarian access, sustained violence, and he cannot make turmoil have disrupted markets. and there's also driven prices of staple goods to on a fordable level fighting abrupt dude after a power struggle between the head of the army, abdel, such a opa, and just form a deputy mahogany termed on deck. lo, if the rapid support forces applied story the best. now bringing our guests from london, we joined by hollywood high, who was a political analyst who specializes in research on a policy on to don. and the horn of africa in geneva is dr. location capella, who was the united nations resident and humanitarian coordinator for so don in 2003

in 2004. he was vocal about the atrocities a he witnessed in, don for, and infinity goss capital. the car is out of my jang, the african union, especially in boy on the prevention of genocide. welcome to you all. thank you so much for joining us on inside story home to, to hire in london. if i can start with you, we have today one of the worst worst humanitarian crisis, a war that's creating mass funding as we've heard. and we'll be of, you know, delving deeper into that in just a moment. but i wanted to get your reaction 1st to the us declaring and determining that the are assess. and it's all lies that committing genocide in to dot. and so dawn today, what do you make of that and, and what do you think has motivated this decision? now i think it's high time the united states made this designation. we have, we know that the us has been sitting on information about the atrocities being committed

by the hours of, for some time, the roll them bucks into the yale sedan bar tree and observatory, excuse me, the human rights watch. honestly, international. all of them have readings, reports that say that those atrocities were committed, effectively amount to genocide. um, so this is not exactly as surprising. what is surprising is the timing. i think it's very interesting that divided instruction chose to throw this grenade effectively in the jump directions, template ministrations way, because they are the ones who are going to have to deal with the different magic full out with. also naming the united arab emirates and their engagement with the r as s. all right. out of my jang. your reaction as the special envoy, the african union, special envoy on preventing genocide. how do you view this decision by washington? especially when itself, the us itself has been accused of facilitating severe human rights abuses and genocide in the gaza strip. what difference do you think this determination is going to make into that?

well, it is very sad. i mean, uh oh, do we have been c r o b committee the last 21 months in. so that waiting today. wow. to leave these got, i think the station and does make a determination while trying to say of course, that they have been deliberating for management to me is, is actors in this conflict incident. but here a for example, which has been accused of, of backing diarra stuff. but i only hope that it will be applied in court for all member states of signatories of the general side convention about data of vacation, depth responsibility to prevent the crime of zillow site. and as they know, these conventions start with defense. and before even rich grabbing the punishment

. so it is my hope that the boards of uh, just the bus man of the month, right. staff responsibility. i asking clearly to hand where is see if today is in the documents and mean what is extremely important is to make sure that the perpetrators of these crimes ones identify investigation being carried on properly be brought to justice and the less not to be taken at post page talking about the tools can send a surprise yes to has to be done, but we need also to address the group policies of dissertation instead of 20 years ago in the will remind us. yes, and let's bring one more cash on that to get the cash to double cash copy. that was indeed there in a 2003 in 2004 location i. i wanted to get your thoughts about the situation today

and how it compares, of course, to what you witnessed when, when you were in. so don, but more specifically about this us action location to fill out when announcing the designation of genocide on to the blinking, the us secretary of state said that the us does not support either. so it was put, usable, good, you years ago when i show to the terrible things that were going on and in doubtful it, like the security confidence addition, you'd like to refer to the stuff but couldn't have goals. a leg to uh, decide to just had been declared that any documents be made it left to you in the esc in union. the peacekeeping forces on the ground. $1200000.00 sir, displaced the there's been this, i bring the dentist, i did come to an event today. none of the factors mentioned apply. the student council needs to finalize the supervisors are distracted. can union dues,

what's the use list? i'm sorry to say a comma under i think we have a uh it josh does pulling that across purposes. im just said people supporting different sized joint agencies themselves. what did the task got to be done? why do you think of the, the response this time has been so effective and ineffectual? is it the case that the international community doesn't care box dawn or more a case when you look at the, the humanitarian situation, for example, of not being able to physically get aid on the ground. what, what, what is the root cause of this neglect? from the international community you think i, i don't think the word doesn't to get i. i really believe that people don't. i'm going to get enough for go elsewhere around the peace of mind to give them the front of them in the world as well. and then why doesn't bring the most attention? is what they've reaching months? no, i don't think it started. i think what did they lose at the options available to make

an intervention are much more difficult ones, for example, the humanitarian side, which is a very germane to this whole level of discussion. i think i'm like, previous there is whether you haven't had more robust approaches where it had a notification approach to getting a into conflict areas of to officer done with the seem to move now to a permission seeking approach. because turner through the contested. then even in our as a controlled areas, that's uh, so disney's armed forces. but if i put them in how to get permission before you can use ads, right, and so on. so that's one thing that you run into bored enough. secondly, i think there's not enough support just because you might have getting not just to do a lot of the of the, of the lifting it all of this. that's one thing. i'm on the political side. i think the point is people are a people are more interested in doing deals with incoming them. us presidents from

the deal has to be done between the 2 sides and that it has to come from within, from civil society involvement from disability. and like this process is which i know i mentioned in passing, but quite honestly nobody take some very seriously. so a whole lot of, of the political inconsistencies as well as i think you might, you might have to to how this on behalf of the international imagine him is a plane. you decide the millions on the verge of salvation incidence. ok. and allow itemizing to respond in just a moment to, to the you, you saying location to figure out that the african union has been, are useless and, and to slice in this crisis. but let me bring in a whole load for a salute. the finding that you and says that's finding why conditions are now present in 5 areas of. so dawn, even though the, the government has denied this, what do you know is the reality of the situation on the ground today? what, what can you tell us about what's happening on the ground? and do you agree with location about why the reasons behind this, this neglect,

it would seem from the international community. and i think, you know, the institutional barriers that add up to my test layouts are all very valid. but i do think the sit on is seen as a low priority area. and more importantly it's, you know, that, that what is happening. and so that is sort of refracted through the lens of allies of either the us or russia, etc, in the region. and so, so that is not really seen on its own terms. and forces also wants to be recognized as a government because they see this a symmetry. and now there's also talk of a rapid supports of forces, setting up a government in the areas as soon as this week. and obviously this to this genocide determination puts a huge dent in, in the ability to do so because the credibility of shopping has been stopped as a new people for awhile. but any legitimacy that might be able to cool from the international community had been dented by this genocide determination. had that been done early, i think it could be potentially in a better place in terms of some standing in the way of the what looks like the

almost inevitable splits of the country. now what i think needs to happen and exactly what makes sense. uh, when we speak about the rights of the asked and union the fee, you know, it's not very clear where to it. i have to uh receive the go ahead, the green light from the 6 with the got the button not by my own view is that had the theme strong political we a, to protect the civilian, been so that it would have been possible we have seen in the past when the in the 2000, when one that decided to probably it's to, to do to, to that for me. and i think it is simply the shame that said in this, yeah, we have come a more thing that it 1st. i mean, for us, we begin

a site that separately too, against the season one to which prompted in fact the african union in 1000 to be $77.00, both and actually good for each of the concepts it takes about to remain. so that see, i mean, why this best of it t, i mean, we all know that, that out. so he's, you know, the policies around, we know that sometimes when it comes to making a bow decision, it is not that easy, right? that is why the tip doesn't have to asking them himself during become more reason of the 10 to 1500 bucks. it will be committed to peace and the discounts for the communion made it very clear showing clearly the difficulty is not only regarding the relationship between the rex and the asking, you know, but also if i'm the middle mistake,

i'm going to be honest. okay. unless i can lead this coming suddenly in february, look at each other in the eyes and say, let's go back to adkins cushion list for the field obligation. otherwise, just thought it'd be just of cause those lead to who will be failing this with the needs people again. and i wish i paid them either as a matter of fact. so donna is a classic example. and lucas situation now is an indictment. try to our humanity to out of the collective. i've clicked the state of the mind. indeed. okay, but let me ask more cash capella then about the way for the v i. p. c. famine review is projecting that 5 additional areas in so don will face simon in 2025, and that there is a risk assignment in 17 additional areas. so what can be done now today you've

talked about some of the reasons the causes. what can be done now to avoid a further humanitarian catastrophe? there are no easy answers. i'm afraid. i think the 1st we have to, uh, but a direction of trouble is that the humanity did. i'm going to go tracts have to be dissociated. now it's a bit uncomfortable doctor for me to actually say that when we know that there are only political solutions to this crisis. but my point here is that to, by spinning out the part of dixon, spinning up the diplomacy, both the us and boys, the un on boys and all the on by the original boss. i've actually made the situation worse. what we need to do is to go back to some of the tools that put the plug frontier go with the high level to monitor in leadership volt with you when i'm in the us administration and regular gain into complex vision which are focused on the state department to solve quite take much themselves and put the humanity on

top of the political agenda in the back of the se, but so please like more that it's more important than saving the student needs mission. hold. hi. do you agree with location container that the humanitarian and political tracks need to be dissociated? we've heard also from the sudanese and bassett, or a to the you in a few days ago who, who express faith in the incoming trump administration, that the us would be able to strike a deal to end to end this conflict. do you, do you believe that this new administration will be more successful in brokering a lasting ceasefire? so there's a difference between a cease fire and piece. do i think that the trumpet ministration can negotiate to cease 5 potentially do? i think the company ministration can negotiate a piece deal, not very what much. and the reason for that is that the trump administration, you know, in the 1st time we say the pos is protocol that hasn't really paid much attention to sedan other than through the lens of the abraham codes. and it will probably

continue to do the same. this time, average musical very much defy to us allies and the read inside your regular agents in united app average to cut a couple of together some kind of cx, 5 deal. now that them in by no means means that there's going to be any kind of peaceful resolution to this, to this complex. and it also means that most likely, you know, civilian, active democracy just as accountability. those things will be very much left by the wayside. in favor of some kind of military deals. now, even if that happens, i think what with, with what we've seen very much is that the us government is in many ways i'm up till now. i'm not done actually anything that is very, you know, positive towards moving sit down towards a peaceful resolution by not the linking humanitarian aid from the political track, asthma cache. a said we have now this sort of hodge podge of approaches that don't really make sense. and what it has allowed, the pleasure in the policy is to do chiefly the are assessing the staff,

is to use 8 as a political football is to dictate the terms of aid. and that by also dictate the terms of the peace process, which is why none of them have gone very far. now the since didn't even bother to, to the one who takes is or does very much from the city. news on falls is, is a part of that act to is, you know, in right now, i'm taking pots and, and contributing to simon denial. i'm, and this is very much like you want to keep the conversation. they don't want to have a conversation about any piece, do not want it. so the dry it is an important conversation that we're having, and i'm sure that we will keep having a, in the next 2 weeks here on alger 0. thank you so much for joining us. who would hire out of my ging and will cash copy that? thank you for joining us on inside story and thank you to for watching. you can always watch this program again any time by visiting our website that i'll just c o dot com for further discussion. go to our facebook page at facebook dot com forward slash a great inside story. and of course, you can join the conversation on x a handle, is that a j inside story for me,

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