hurricane force winds, just like we saw last week, and we all know what that can lead to everybody here, not just in los angeles, but across the southern california, fully away. this may be fall from over phil as well. i'll just say we're in the pacific pilot sites nomination. hearing for donald trump selection a secretary of defense is set to begin on choose day. peace takes us as a form, a television personality, and the 1st of trump's cabinet nominees to face senate scrutiny. the hearing is expected to focus on questions about his qualifications and experience leading the pencil going. what kind of reports from washington? tv and army reserve officer and princeton graduates. p takes it is now i in the top seats at the pentagon. but the excitement toby is nomination was quickly tempted by a backlash of criticism from many that he is not fit for the job. there are

questions that some members have and, and we're going to be working for an inch among the many issue senators will raise a settlement to the woman who accused tech sits of raping hood 2017, an e mail from his mother calling hicks, it's an abuse of women, an e mail she'd like to said she apologized for sending allegations of financial mismanagement to, to veterans charities. he ran and on top of all this accusations from current and former colleagues at fox news that hicks, it drinks on the job choices in recent weeks excess has launched the charm offensive on capital hill. attempting to convince senators there's no basis to any of the allegations. i've looked at all the personal stuff. and again, i've known him for a long time, and i would, uh, there's not gonna be anything to this at the end of the day. others who decide or somewhat well guarded. he'll go through the process, it'd be ask about to see what happens. hicks with himself is confident you'll be

concerned saying the message from sent. it says he met with consistent, your job is to bring a war finding e. so it's back to your job is to make sure that it's the salary, the salary, we salary, everything else is going everything else that distracts from that shouldn't be happening. that's the message i'm hearing from centers in advising content process . even if picks it is confirmed, job security is not a given. you'll be saving a combined in chief who hired and fired 5 defense secretaries, giving his full years in office. my kind of, i'll just the era washington. right, well that's it to me side of side. so you can find more information on updates on, on websites, out there at the come and use continue say offer the stream the, the us is always of inside 50 for the world. people pay attention to this one here,

and i'll just do this very good that bringing the news to the world from here. welcome back to the stream. today we will be discussing artificial intelligence within the news industry and navigating the ethical implications of it, tuned in for an exciting discussion. i am on a lease board this and this is the stream, the. well thank you. ai analise, artificial intelligence is said to revolutionize our world and become faster and better than us and many things. defects and generative models have already had an explosive impact on journalism. the question is, can the news industry survive us to help us answer that and more we have joining us today, joe, i'm did is associate director at the center for cooperative media at long clare university. glenn will k a. i need a trainer, currently consultant for several major media networks on the i and john, not elma,

so money producer. so maker and research are in digital humanities and societies. thank you all so much for your time. thank you for being part of the stream. i'm very, very intrigued by this conversation, obviously, in gland. i'd like to start with you with an overview. if you don't mind because you've been helping several major outlets navigate these on, charted a i waters, can you tell us where to things stand as we speak today? is everyone experimenting? testing a i to a certain extent, how is that going? and i think we're in a, a really interesting situation that a lot of the big media organizations on, at least i think it's down to a kind of a polarization. i think a lot of stuff because of the exercise of those. a lot of the items are on the market, are experimenting privately. i think most of the big organizations i've dealt with at least start taking a much more pragmatic and cautious approach. so money or putting energy into to develop a kind of an, a. i ethic statement and

a set of guidelines for staff to try and make sure that they work within the parameters that are established as acceptable. and so it's an interesting kind of juxtaposition. and it's also fair to say that as soon as you publish your a, i think statements, there's a really good chance that you're gonna have to revisit that within just a couple of months. because the, i have a least thing so fast as it is very, very hard a top of it. hm. and we've been talking about how a guy is going really fast and pretty much all sectors. so i'm go from what you've been seeing and analyzing what specific new a i to or innovation has caught your attention lately. maybe give us a positive highlights if you will, and something that is worrying you as well as well. i think i appreciate the question and i do think that that is correct, that there are a lot of evolutions happening very quickly. i think the thing that people need to focus on, especially organizations of the small to medium size is not even so much of

generative a i. but even starting with basic automation, if this then that sort of trigger and response automation. and i think it really comes down to the, the adoption of these tools will be best if the process and the operations of an organizational already solid. these tools are really never meant to be all encompassing and integrated into everything that we do at an organization. and they're much better served as a layer as an additional feature or a tool. and i think that once these tools sort of start to fade into the background, the dust settles, the hype goes down a little bit. we'll start to see the, the evolution and maturation of their use in organizations and, and companies in a much more balanced and reasonable way. one thing that's been sticking out to me is just, you know, simple, simple tools that work only with the data that you give it. so for instance, google's notebook, l, m flat out refuses to give any responses that are not based in the source material that you upload to it. and i think that is where you'll see

a lot of growth and development and actually useful applications instead of sort of the, you know, anything that has they were to a i n a is just now, oh, that's the new thing we have to do. oh, very, very important points um and we're going to talk about some of them in length during the show. but, but john, i wanna, i wanna get your, your reaction here in terms of what you're observing right now. what aspects of a guy are you starting to pay attention to right now? because in your opinion, they may actually revolutionize the news industry. a definite kid i has been transforming their way really produce news. and what is really important now is that the analysis. so i've seen many platform or many and use the artist that has been using data analysis and then government major events. and i think it's like it's transforming hours into minutes, days into uh, to hours or 14. so it's, it's,

it's giving um many used to send towards through the enter the agenda is to, to just as through a vast amounts of data. and i think this is that it was, it, does it all right, a is changing. yeah. it's already revolutionizing our, our, our, our sector internet. it's totally taking out of that tedious part of on the work i would say. but when we think about a i in new these days, at least what most people may actually imagine is the fix and misinformation journalist i've done my own ball opposed to this about this topic. he said, research shows that nearly 90 percent of people struggle distinguish between the defect and a real video with even a detection tools failing to spot in the difference on multiple occasions. even though that animal, these, a guy that starts in the show might not be perfect yet. um, there is quite a lot of very impressive advancements in this in this area at least glen.

how would you say news organizations should be integrating this technology and the multiple aspects of it without damaging that holy grail on this relationship? the relationship between the news organization and the viewer or the reader. that is of course, trust. yeah, that trust is definitely as power lines. i think for every news organizations on that time of pencil, a massive erupt and indeed face, i think trust is the one thing that we have to all of dearest above all else. i mean, there are lots of a applications that don't necessarily come on scream or straight into the editorial outputs side of things like transcription, translation tools or a captioning for accessibility. and there's a huge suite of research tools which you can use behind the scenes. so to speak, for instance, if you're taking up like pam, why is that? like normal or reverse image search, this will actually identify a face and a photograph and then track that face and every context on the internet and their

tools like that that are transforming journalism and research and open research in particular is massively on the back side. i mean, saving hours for the average day for a journalist, i think the key thing is to know the checks and balances will lots acceptable in the organization before you hit publish. and then ultimately, full disclosure that you say if you've used a, i say it upfront so that the audience knows what to expect. and you can listen to the feedback because people appreciate that or whether they have concerns. that's a very interesting tank. uh tell what is your view on this, is it important for news outlets to be pulling the curtains and showing people how they're going about uncovering search and data tracing search and data? is that paramount here and keeping trust? i think generally speaking, yes, that is very important, but i think what a lot of folks here or think of when they think of disclosure statements, or at least in, from a cynical perspective, it often times feels like the a disclosure, you know, you know, language on the website is serving more as a c,

y, a or a, an accountability sink if you will. and i think if we're going to pull the curtain back, we absolutely should do that. we should, for instance, we should have all transparency on things like who writes the headlines. because often times, especially for op ed journalists are opinion journalists. they're not the ones writing the headline. so i think there are many layers within the journalism and specifically not just the reporting, but the publishing side in the back office side of journalism that we kind of in fact pull back the curtain. but i think if you're just putting in a disclosure statement at the bottom of an article that you publish, i think a lot of times it public can see that as a thing that reduces trust in many ways. because studies show that when people know that a guy was involved in making something that trust and, and respect sort of goes down. and so if you're going to pull back that curtain, let's do it in all areas where as many areas as possible, i don't think we want to get into a situation where half of the page on the article is just as, as

a breakdown of all the different filters, the different precepts and light room, the different prompts that you use to format the text or what, what images and so forth and so forth. i think it's very good to have an, a, assets and disclosure policy. but i think you have to go further than that and not just check the box, but actually go into and engage with your community and your audience and say, look, this is how these tools are use. they are just tools. but at the end of the day, as a journalist, the whole point is that what you put out into the public, you have to be able to stand by and defend. and what do you get that information from a freelance or a staff writer, a producer, or one of these tools? i think it's important to be able to stand there and have the bucks stop at the publication. so that regardless of what tools you use, the people can trust that if it comes out from you, then you stand by it and you can defend it. oh, i'm that. there isn't a major issue here that we've been discussing. as of late when it comes to a i,

the issue of bias is it's also something that we talk a lot about in media. obviously, i want to share this ted talk by a computer science students. i've done that, lola, and then get you guys to react to it. take a look. so when you and i think of bias, we're often thinking about human bias, which is one. we are prejudiced towards a group of individuals or a system of police, but bias in a i, even though it may propagate human bias use is completely different because it is quantifiable. we can assign a number to this. and more importantly, using this type of analysis we can mitigate algorithmic bias. and that's because algorithmic bias fundamentally results because of in balances and data that are used to train artificial intelligence models. so here's an example and over simplified one of a data distribution that we might use to train in our system. there are peaks in this distribution. so areas of high data under areas of lower representation places

where we don't have a lot of data. when we're training models that involve human data, the data that is at the peaks of this distribution tends to come from exactly as we just saw. white western men and data that comes from the under represented regions of this type of data set comes from women and people of color. glenn, so donna is obviously very, very bright there. and i find that fascinating the danger on any open harvesting motto is obviously copyrights, but also the bias that is inherent to the source that this model is using to learn from how ar username is ations currently addressing that as well. it's an interesting one actually because i was named jackson, but 2 of the organizations that i've been dealing with have decided to go for a close learning model based on their own data only. so as opposed to data

harvesting just random content and, you know, creating a massive large language model, what they're actually doing is training internal models. so using the technology but feeding their own data sets in to customize that so that they can stand over the quality of the data is gone. and the other thing i'm saying that i think is interesting is you can actually for instance, and try to be asked to identify potential bias and an article that will intelligent though it may be actually 12 red flags or when it can detect it. so it's an interesting one of turn it back on it so that that is, it is intelligent, but it's not as smart uh, so that it could lie. and you also mentioned when we transferred before the show, you also mentioned a very interesting example where you, you asked a question about a very contentious issue about gaza to a model. and you asked it in arabic and english and you had very different answers . can you share that story, that example with us? yeah, absolutely. so, i mean, this is a classic case study, again of the nature of the data inputs that are going in and whether language alone

can actually have that kind of in, in, in a bias on us. so there was a question asking about a statement in relation to kaiser and the english language response came back with a very pro western plastic american and positioning honors. and yet the arabic cancer came back to it was very, very pro palestinian and it in the classroom in particular. i think it actually last, most people quite shocked that it could be so radically different. and so just suppose, without any new thoughts, even the phraseology in the english language response would cause concern because of the nature of the bias of it as well. and so i buried this really example of our bias can, you know, pre been to the kind of news room environment and joe, your take your on devices of these models that we are seeing emerge and how unusual should work to mitigate these biases and ensure a fair representation to but that's a, that's a great example and i was going to use a similar one. but i think even with what concept about the news organizations

training on their own data as if that some kind of safeguard against us. and we know very well that media outlets have their own bias, ease imbedded in their coverage. um whether it's the source diversity and the audits that show that they over whelming li, interview white men, a straight man, western man. or it's the biased towards things like institutional legitimacy or coherence or deference to or should sort chevron deference if you will, towards the institutions, especially the intelligence communities or the allies or, or partners of, of us imperialism. and so whether those biases are coming from the training model, the training data themselves, or they're coming from the news organizations. again, i think it comes back to this idea that we need to hold ourselves accountable. and we need to in, to investigate internally, our own institutional and organizational and individual biases. and make sure that when we put something out, whether it is something that we've derived from these bots, or if it's something that's coming from inside the house, so to speak, that we are putting those kind of checks and that we're involving many,

many voices and perspectives. on these issues so that they are reflected in the output that we have. i mean just this panel alone, there's 2 white dudes on it for. so i was just going to say that and you know, we tend to be new lots more inclusive here. the stream i must say, i know i didn't mean that as a call out to you, we barely tentatively, mary. i'm mindful all of that. especially with gender representation. but it turns out that you guys have some pretty interesting things to say. so we were forced to invite you and i want to ask about, uh, some other ethical implications as we're kind of dissecting this here because we, we keep talking about the impact on our democratic models. i mean, with news rooms already adopting a models to predict and analyze data during elections for you. well, the dangers of a i and didn't fix on democracies cannot be understated. the $23.00 for london

mayoral election was an example of that. is it so recently released in documentary the fake mayor that addresses this issue? take a look. this information you submitted the photograph. what is the use barrier when you lower your spread factor? display 2016. so which be an okay, bring us permission to, to refresh facebook on the us in mind for your body's kind of dog. ok to i can do. what do they can do? the november doctors thursday, that sounds like a plane from joe biden, except that it is at the time when i should be invested in i have to try and reach out to doing so so. so that was

obviously around the episode where the cloned, the mayor is. i don't even know if that is a term, but let's from for the purposes of this conversation, they, they, they put out the statements that sounded a lot like the mayor, but it wasn't the mere. and i was to be honest, i was expecting a lot on that kind of situation, similar situations to come out of the us selections. and at least from here we can see that much. uh, why would you say the facts were not that popular? i would say in this particular race, so the white house as well, i'd say in one part because it's just not necessary to mislead people. and in most cases, the technology is, as the documentary from the tail pointed out, much easier to access a used to. i mean, these things are not new, they're not novel issues that we're dealing with. photo and video manipulation, audio fakes and clones. yes, that is the right word,

right parlance for these days. but in the past, you know, it took years or months, at least, of training and practice and education on how to use the various tools that allow you to manipulate these, these pieces of media. now it takes a couple of dollars of phone and some, some spare time and a maybe some malicious or, you know, the various intent um, but ultimately the reality is it just just not necessary to mislead people. you don't need to come up with these elaborate schemes to tell people lies. you can just say it's and the case is, especially in a regular that they're not looking for that they're, they're looking to confirm their own biases anyway. so all you have to do is sort of give them that red meat that they're looking for in the 1st place. and they're wrong with it. it's, it's not, it's not necessary. i was gonna say, especially in the race or donald trump is running. i mean, there's so much there. all right, and then i'm talking about the president elect of the united states. um, looking ahead, i'd like to to, to take

a moment now know as we are nearing the end of the show to, to talk about how do we go about experimenting again with these tools in a controlled fashion. some say for example that a, i should be regulated, take a look of 91 percent of people agree that we should carefully manage a i. so let's make that happen. we need to come together to build a global organization, something like an international agency for a i, it is global, non profit and neutral is critical that we have both governance and research as part of it. it's a very big ask, but i'm pretty confident that we can get there because i think we actually have global support for this. our future depends on it. joe was smiling at this statement, but before i go to joe, i want to have john us take on this on the future. should there be a body that overseas the usage all the i also in news in your opinion,

and i think it's, it's no, it just took, took to put like some strategies to what, what a great they use. okay. how i or the ethic of you know, so if you think a i, i would definitely agree with job and talk to you said the guards in 50 states. i think it has been use before the election, but i think now the fates are uh, from the old days that are new advanced way or funny, protecting the old, you know, so the, that i have to for again, the dissemination that like there are well, again, i is ation using a big and integrated in charge of it to you to just to get them a few points. i think, i think this also the align with the, with the ones glenn has mentioned before regarding the difference between uh as your schedule between english oh and not a big but also in english and english as your as charge of it. do you like disney? uh then you'd have price point of view it towards the fast from, from another organization. so i think i think that you would share a raise to,

to manipulate the dealt with terms other than the same, such a huge potential to manipulate, you know, to, into it's very scary. i mean, joe, i believe it was you that quoted stephen fry in our chat before the show. um i also spoke about this $100000000000.00 plan with the 70 percent risk of killing us all a i shouldn't be optimistic about in the future. all the i particularly in use i think ultimately the future of any technology, especially, you know, in the current climate is tied to the future of capitalism and the way that these markets operate. i think there wouldn't be nearly as many complaints about copyright and stuff of content if these tools were created with public value and public benefit in mind, but they're not there created to a mass and extract the surplus value for a small group of capitalists. and i think with regard to any kind of regulations, i completely agree we need them. i think there should be consumer and creative

protections. i don't think that it should be a a labyrinth in mays to go turn off the a i training and scraping for every social media platform retroactively. and i think that the regulatory challenge, of course, especially at a global scale is going to be, i mean we've had mass consensus, the palestinian statehood should be a thing. but there are a few detractors that prevented from going forward. so global or mass appeal does not necessarily result in global or mass enforcement. so we need consumer protections. we need creative protections. we need to rest back control of the value of these and to localize the extra nowadays, and the impacts of them to the people who are creating them. and we need to reorient the way that we develop technology to benefit public, the members of the public, and the people who create the value. and not just allow it to be hoarded and, and sequestered into a small group of international capital or capital s, which is happening right now. so no, we should not be optimistic. i mean, last, sorry, glen, where do you see there's going,

what do you think is going to happen to a i, i'm to journalism a whole lot of bad. well, i'm going to circle back to, to conversely use that already. the 1st one is about how, by perception a, i didn't seem to play as much of a role in the us selection, perhaps as the expectations starting that i would have been my initial take. but i think the one thing that have factored in the lot is that there were a huge amount of closed community groups like telegram, particularly being used by the republican party to reach their folder base. that wouldn't of necessarily being directly within the public line of sight. and we don't know because we're not in there. we don't know whether there was a lot of of cambridge, i noticed it looks like a style kind of messaging being pushed to be able to trigger them. that's the 1st thing to factor in. we don't know whether this was the i election we anticipated or not because not all of it was in the public domain. second thing is the outcome of the us selection, which i'm taking power again, is basically going to give a carte blanche to a guy in the us with you on most effectively by looks. it was at least taking up

a government position. i fully expect that he will lobby to try and actually de regulations that's even possible the i development. so there's a lot of very, very big vested ext 1000000000 dollar companies in the us who will benefit from the us to come to your question. i'm a little bit worried about us decided at the very top of the shopping list. the idea of the trust is probably our only us be going forward. and the time with people's behaviors are changing. people are leaning away from traditional media to get the new sources and sometimes looking to influence as who the best of respect can sometimes can be very easily manipulated. and if there's enough client in the deal m, i think that idea of being a single point where you can go and get verified information structurally, actress and you know, challenges. so that is accountability and as well. i think that will be our u. s. p going forward, and hopefully we can stick to that and continue to produce quality journalism. in the meantime. thank you so so much glenn, joe and donna for your time. thank you for being part of the stream today. and thank you all for to me and if you have

a comments about are so you can talk to us on social media, use the hash tag or they handle a stream and then we'll look into your feedback and suggest take care. and i'll see you soon. the in one of the last remaining ancient forests and southeast asia is a lifeline to hundreds of lumber jacks. i'm drive this we follow that treacherous journey as they walk through extreme conditions together and transport this dangerous, but precious cargo risk in your phone. you on al jazeera the search is all in for a treasure that's fallen from the sky. large media, right of approximately 4 cheetos was caught on camera as an into the atmosphere

landing in the flow. these are desert of northern charities. the news attract astronomers, geologists and treasure hunters from the world over knowing exactly when it fell is a major discovery because we can determine the conditions under which it arrived fresh without terrestrial alteration. then we do right, fill somewhere within a 6 square kilometer area where we are right now. they've only been able to search about 20 percent of it. we're always searching for where we come from. knowing our territory, the solar system is possible to sherry, meter writes that fall in a dry desert i particularly sought after because they degrade very slowly, providing pristine information about the composition and origin of our kind of tree system. the,

there's no limit to how a dream contains key stuff in your own event. you know counter avenue, the hello until mccrae. this is then use our line from coming up in the next 60 minutes . no list often is rosa tax. the crew scouts are despises. these 5 deal being close to that it's everything we have reached a point where the major issues that go preventing it from happening. what are the rest and we have a language but they need to be set.