a surveillance text is key to sustaining israel's occupation. you don't necessarily know who's watching you at the training. it's called the official intelligence, the use of a simulation object sort of, they have technology that can then so around the globe, very, very sophisticated a, i can collect them cube the palestine, the barre, 3 upon one on a just, you know, an explosive diplomatic val, between the us and columbia over the deforestation of army with wise immigrants on military plains, its main quickly the fuse for now for further action to be made. what does the city note about the new donald trump presidency? this is inside story, the

hello and welcome to the program. i'm elizabeth put on a route that blew up almost as suddenly as it ended columbia and president, the style of petro y'all, came home with his us count about donald trump, the full backing down off the u. s. military plains carrying deported. colombians with bod, from landing by petro trunk, reactive swiftly with terrorists and sanctions. retaliatory measures were announced by columbia before and a pound climbed down by president petro deportation. flights with military plains, to be allowed in with columbia promising dignified conditions for those on board. the speed of the escalation of hostilities between the 2, alec allies of surprise, many if the spot former left to scovella, petro being at the other end of the political spectrum from trump. so what's to be learned from this episode about the new trump administration and how it plans to do business and what might be the impact on undocumented immigrants and these you, wes, as well as the countries of origin. we'll discuss all this without paddle of guess

shortly, but 1st this report from michael some cities the us, preston don't need some claim. speak to you in a stand off with columbia or with tablets and migration. the white house says the colombian government has agreed to receive flights, getting migraines devoted from the united states. it comes off to from trenton to both sweeping, tightest on all goods from the country. the columbia new for my columbia, as government has resolved its impasse for the government of the united states, we will continue to receive colombians, that return as deep ortiz ensuring dignified conditions for them as citizens with the right side on the stand up again of to columbia, in preston, gustavo federal refuse to allow to us ministry at croft, kevin depold and my friends to land in boca time from for a tally, a tid by threatening to play, sweeping tablets on own goods from one of the reps as close as allies in south

america. he also threatened to impose restrictions on visas within us. the 2 leaders engaged in 2 foot tap measures through social media. it left many people watered in the country, the county us as its biggest trade park. now, the other thing can be failed to pull to that must be received here because this is the country. if you come to your own country, how can you not be accepted? it's not locked in on a single papers unless mr. petro is at least to think with a cool hit, not ideologically, but regarding what space for our country. i think he needs to think more, to preserve, protect, and defend the showdown came less than a week and took from 2nd time. in his 1st day, he signed more than 200 executive orders, including declaring a national emergency on the southern border and ordering the military to help detain funds,

both migrants decision to option his election campaign promise to front down on illegal immigration with mos depredations has led to buildings and homes being rated and migrant arrested in separately, american cities. that's raising tensions with latin american countries. places. so for region, for up to 14000000 undocumented margins in the us. i'm a consumption these obviously the inside story. the. well, let's forget, i guess in washington dc, is nile standards. a political analyst and white house calling us for the hill newspaper in bullets on colombia is, says you guzman, the director of columbia risk analysis, that's a political consultancy and an alexandria virginia is rachel schmidt, to k, the senior advocate for latin america at refugees international a very warm,

welcome to all of you as soon as you, i'll start with you in bold as to why the stunning turnaround from president petra, who went from saying to trump on twitch a, you'll be ok. doesn't scan me to as the white house pushing it, accepting difficulties, even those arriving on us some of the tree across without limitation or delay. do well, and 1st of all, thank you for hobby. i think president federal made a rash decision at 3 am on twitter, 2 not receive a deportation flight. breaking with president that's put on the album. she'd be protection place. that interview says, however, president federal has decided alongside other law meters to try to be much more forceful about the thing of the people that are being deported or be treated as they are by the united states customs enforcement agency. i have to say, however, i think the president federal miscalculated to see how the truck would react

because tom and the white house issued very stern set of measures against columbia that would be completely detrimental to our economy. so the miscalculation was a huge gamble and it didn't pay off. and so petra was brought to the table by the trump administration, the talk in a position of relative weakness. and now these are the consequences for pictures raising response titles. name as a miscalculation because the us, as colombia as the largest trading partner, of course. so you're just a quick question. what you're saying when you say that columbia has accepted deportation flights before, has it accepted deportation flights on military planes? because that seems to be the that seemed to be the issue here for president petra. during the last 3 years, the president, petro isn't necessary. she has accepted nearly $17000.00 deportees in the, in the previous year, up to the, you know,

in january almost $24.00 deforestation flights of taking place mostly on ice plains brand. and so the use of military aircraft, this is a different different issue, but it doesn't change the fact that these are cool goods and by right, they should be welcomed in their own. okay, now the white house put out a statement saying, today's events make clear to the world that america is respected again. do you think that that's the message that the us was trying to send to the world and how, what do you think the message the world is guessing? from what unfolded. the drug administration is certainly trying to send a message off. strang, son of our willingness to flex american muscle in respect of immigration and respect all everything else. and so this is a victory for president trump. i don't think there's any doubt about that. the lessons that the rest of the world will take from what i think could be a little more mixed. i look, i think president, petro has done really significant damage to the general spectrum of

nations. so you have issues or resistance are problems with president trump policies. because petro, by striking this very strong pose, and then folding within about 6, ours has just made up the less credible when other nations seek to resist prism trumps or genes in these ways. so i think it knocked respect, it adds to trump's momentum floor. it also the rooms, the resistance to his wishes from, from other nations because it looks so ridiculous. i'm petrified. rachel, and one of his tweets before backing down, petro spoke of the need to treat the 40s with dignity, and who shed a video of a brazilian deportees being sent back to the country with their hands and the feet restrained. and supposedly having been treated badly on the slide not being allowed

to use the toilet. i mean, does the columbia and presidents have a point? what does your assessment of how these difficulties have been treated in the last week? yeah, i think the use of military planes um, takes a situation where do parties already have not been always treated the best, you know, i have encountered 2 parties under the by and, and the trump administration who then, you know, shuffled at the hands and the 2 haven't been allowed to use the bathroom on the plans, etc, but putting them in cargo planes sort of accelerates this dehumanization of, of migrants, you know, treating them as if they were violent criminals, which we don't have any proof of. that's the case. i think it's sort of a, a pastry that, that these people are dangerous in some way and that, you know, america has the sort of a right to exert its military might, and in other facets beyond the military and places like migration, which i don't think is necessary and also i think the means and,

and reduces the humanity of people who maybe their only crime, quote, unquote was crossing a border. and in fact, i want to ask you about the point that, you know, trump said that he wants columbia to take back these criminals into what has actually said, trump expects all other nations to fully cooperate and accepting the deforestation of this citizens illegally present in the us, do we know about the makeup of the default? he's on the flight since trump took office, you know, do they include? do we know if they include people like asylum seekers, for example? who might have been to the us illegally but have a right to seek asylum regardless of how they end. it's a great question. i think at this point, we don't know the make up, but it is very concerning and very true at this point, that many people who entered legally under programs under the body to ministration . for example, we are now subject to the partition even though they follow the correct procedure is, you know, i've been, i've interviewed colombians who passed through the dairy and gap all the way

through central america to get to mexico. they use the cbp one application as they were told they entered through a c h and the parole program that was legally a pathway that was available to them at the time. and now they're scared they're about to be deported. and then i think that is a true, fearful tactic for people who, who quote, unquote, did that the right way. i think that that's the point i want to emphasize is that there is not only a threat to illegal or an authorized emigration, but there's also now for to people who entered in a manner that was legal. and so that is very concerning a not, that is absolutely something we've seen isn't it. and the 1st week of the executive actions taken on integration, it's not just the crack down on and legal integration. it's a crack down on pathways to enter the us legally, including ending things like the refugee resettlement program. how would you describe those actions, and what is the trump administration trying to do? a specialist actions from an administration but believes in a restriction list,

all of that. now i think we do, we have to say in fairness, the immigration was perhaps the single strongest issue for president trump in november's election. it was a real vulnerability for democrats that they were perceived as, as less restriction. most certainly the southern border of the united states on authorized crossings reached their highest point in decades if not ever about a year ago. they have followed them since them. but look, i think that the issue that you mentioned over the end of the refugee, the chef on program dollars point to the issue that rachel raised up by the, the general lie used reluctance or resistance to permit migrants just generally now i of course, trust them trump appears to help us talk about different theories, all the classic style of, of migration that is fully legal, hunger employment visas for example. but when it comes to refugees, asylum seekers, and of course, people who are just flat out on authorized migrants, he has a very,

very different view of rachel coming back to you because we're talking about the refugee resettlement program that has been suspended indefinitely. and so many refugees who have been, you know, who have gone through the very long investing process and have been waiting some times for years, including those that have gone us down. who assistant, the u. s. military have had their travel plans suspended or even canceled. does isn't the us a signal treat to the refugee convention and does it have obligations? yes, the short answer is yes. the us is party to the 1951 convention. and so it does have international obligations, as well as the right to seek asylum is find an art domestic laws as well. and so, and i think from a moral perspective, we are a very wealthy prosperous nation that was founded on immigrants. and i think that people who have fled violence as stipulated in the, in the convention, should have

a right to see protection and elsewhere. and the united states has absolutely the resources. and i think the responsibility to do that, especially when we look at other countries in the region like columbia that have over 2000000 been as well as that they've received um that's much larger and columbia has much less resources, not much less, but less resources in the united states to do so and they're doing it. and so i think that united states, we could learn a lot from our lot in american neighbors in terms of what it means to actually welcome people. yeah, and colombian, on documented migrants from colombia, actually make up as a raw the, a small number of the undocumented, my friends from last america in the u. s. a. so is your, does tom's move? do you think to impose sanctions when columbia refused the military slides? does it show just how he sees to have as an economic with and you know, to use against governments that aren't going to play a part in his geo political goals? and i think the trump administration's tactics of always being to impose maximum

pressure on adversaries, regardless of them, be friends or phones to try to extract the concessions. and in this regard, petros acknowledgement of the terms that the us laid out is basically giving him the opportunities to do so in the future. so i think petra's lackluster and lack of cusick vision because you know, he's meetings a lot. the lock in american group of countries on thursday, and they're coming up with a joint policy to address the so i think this dispute is far from over. i think trump has one the 1st from clearly, but i also anticipate there could be a lot of friction between nothing american punched in the united states over the years come yeah, absolutely. that is something that we're going to be watching very closely. nile. it's future sanctions lead to say hi or prizes for us consume is. then we'll the

american public object do you think, will they be willing to tolerate some financial pain to advance trumps immigration policies? and i think there are 2 separate issues to keep disentangle their wellness trunk per port. i'd love for tariffs which almost. busy calling us consider potentially inflation rate on whoever he imposes those type of so on there is the chance that those will lead to rising prices. and voters, i think, would react very negatively to that. but that elizabeth has a separate issue from his argument and his allies argument that he sometimes threatens tire ups as a negotiating tactic. it appears to have worked very effectively in this case whether one likes it or not. and so the idea of, of using the throughout of tyler as a weapon to force other governments to change their policy. i think that is something that a significant number of americans would back actually. and also just wary of us

getting into a situation where we underestimate the degree to which the american population has shifted somewhat to the right on immigration, even within my good 2 years or so in this country. the fee for the more restriction of policies that mr. trump welsh. and rachel, why is that? because as niles said himself earlier, the spies the number of crossings having peaks during the trump administration. they did come down after the, the, off to the bite and administration, you know, impose restrictions on asylum in the last months that bite and was president and december 2024. they were 47300 migrant and count as in the last month of trumps 1st to illegal crossings. how that around $71000.00. so why is it that that's not something that affects the public sentiment. i think that the all is right and that there has been

a shift on our thoughts on immigration. and i think there's also somewhat of a disconnect between what we see a people arriving to the southern border and immigrants that we may see in our communities. who are business owners and contributing in many different ways, not only through their labor but through their heritage. and culture and, and personal connections. the people that are arriving at the southern borders and seek asylum will eventually become the people that we consider our neighbors. but i think that the american people have been sold a sort of billing this idea of immigration through much of trumps rhetoric and, and scapegoating them as the problem for some of our economic was. and i think the best misguided but is a very pervasive and powerful idea. and i think that those of us like myself or if it is international, are going to have to work very hard to show that immigrants are extremely a huge benefit to our communities. again, not only for their labor, as i said, but through their ability to, to contribute to our communities and so many different ways and losing that is not

only a material loss for our country and economic loss for our country, but also a cultural and moral loss for our country as well as soon as you are when latin american countries need to figure out how to deal with this trump administration going forward, especially on immigration. do you think that the administration is interested in working with its neighbors on this issue beyond cracking down on immigrants at the border and carrying out deportations as well? i think unfortunately, they're very short sighted about how to achieve success in terms of integration. then i think the byte and administration to how much more long term view of integration say, you know, if there is development in countries in latin america, there will not be as much immigration to the united states. whereas trump says, we need to project on the board or we need to close the border and we need to threaten with, you know, uh, economic terrorist or, or huge in positions that will,

in turn exacerbate the economic walls of each of those countries and produce more migrants going to the united states, and so i think in a way, they're not me, neither petro nor trump are thinking about this, strategically, much to the detriment of a bilateral relationships taking decades to, to strengthen decades to, to harden. and right now, is it please and knowledge they, anyone in the trump administration? do you think is looking at this issue strategically has pick for deputy secretary of state, for example, kristof alondo, he's long argued that working with other countries to start with what he calls such migratory flows, that they must be a global imperative for u. s. foreign policy, but do such spots, do they make working together more difficult? and i think that there are people who in the truck administration look at this issue strategically, they just have

a different strategy from the one that you're just i tried. i mean, there are people like steve and miller, for example, a very senior, pretty close age to donald trump, who has an extremely hawkish position on immigration, on how it's done for years and years and years of the strategy. so far as he is concerned is to you essentially come as close to your time as close to closing the border or with the exception of legal immigration that helps the united states economy directly. so there is a separate argument to be made, of course, about the broader strategy regarding pauses of immigration. what are the drivers of immigration, especially for mexico and latin america? of course those arguments can be made. but the idea that there was arguments get a significant hearing in the trumpet, ministration or tardy, and a real weight on the front put ministration, i think is a follow say i, i don't think they do at all. i think it's a much more my god, america 1st build the wall mentality that i'm

a makes the trump administration on this topic and says, you are dial mentioned mexico, mexico. it's been reported that mexico refused a request last week to let a us military a cough land with migraines, trade between columbia and the us as a tiny fraction of the trade between the us and mexico. could we see trump has long weapon to impose tariff even of 25 percent on mexico? he even mentioned february 1st as a possible days. i think that's this weekend. do you think that we could see trump go ahead with such tyrants on mexico? if it doesn't support his policies at the border as well, i say trump is not oblivious to the fact that mexico lays mexico and canada both play a huge role in the us economy as price setters right in that we'll have, as they all said before, a huge inflationary effect on the american consumer. and so i think trump wants to curtail that specifically. but at the same time, columbia was such a soft target,

one that was very exemplary one that was very easy to use without affecting the american consumer as much. and trump use of leverage, he took advantage of that opportunity, much of the detriment of the bladder race. that's hope that doesn't happen. canada and mexico as well. and right, so again, with so many on documented migraines, up to 14000000 in the united states from last in america. you know, what does this incident tell us about how latin american countries about what they're expecting from this administration. and in fact, what the people from those countries are expecting. and i think many are bracing for the possibility of increased deportation. you know, mexico strategy has been to start preparing for mexicans to retire. and you know, with a new program called mexico and that bras on mexico hugs new mexico and braces you . and so i think many countries are, are,

are bracing for that likely enough that ability. but i also think that there is going to be a negative impact on many communities that have sent my grants to the united states because they were live very directly on remittances. and in many cases, those remittances allow people to, you know, go to school, pay for health care homes. and so those, actually, those witnesses actually keep people in many cases for migrating. and so i think local communities may also feel the effect and may be worried about what the loss of that huge economic bood might be for their welfare and well being in their home countries as well. and says you dispatch as we're being reporting is over for now, the petro is not going to be hot headed. as we mentioned the other end of the political spectrum to donald trump, candace long standing relationship between the us and columbia. what are you expecting from the next for years? so i think for one, petro is going to begin looking at the birds flying for on guess set of lines.

we've talked about picture of strategic ambiguity with other countries, but now we saw for instance, yesterday, the chinese and basset to columbia, and the russian and bosses, the columbia, both pouting the benefits of joining the bricks as, as, as an alliance and columbia. as to is on the break of doing that, and this might just push us over the edge unfortunately. so now does trump the leave and allies? does it worry him that this relationship with colombia might be strained or that colombia might see close the ties with russia or china as a result of this? if any allies, the closer ties with the us is traditional photos. the only thing she comes, he is concerned about the allies ships and the normal fashion that we have expected of american president from both parties. the old idea of america 1st and a more go alone attitude speaks to that. no, he does get irritated. i would say by the expanding sphere of influence of china in

particular some of his arguments, for example, the idea of buying by your trying to force the buyback of the panama canal that's about trying to get curb to chinese influence. so i think to that extent t chairs, i just want to briefly return very briefly to what i think is really important. important here, which is the present petrow here, has done an enormous disturbance to what we might totally international resistance against prism trumping those measures. by trying to play tough bias. we said here, bringing a knife to a gunfight, flowing the shapes and then back in down within hours now has put enormous wind and trump sales on has really fun for those who would seek to make a more modulated version of the state of oregon. all right, if we would have to end the discussion on that very important point. thank you to on of i guess now status in washington dc says you guzman in boca, and rachel schmidt's case in alexandria, virginia, and thank you to,

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