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tv   [untitled]    January 30, 2025 11:30pm-11:54pm AST

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the history was written, the nature became a theory is here, the, the students and the total, the timeless journey. what are the risks of wine and from the east and democratic republicans condo spreading regionally, and 23 rebels have taken control of the provincial capital. the president has promised a, so give us response. so what role do neighboring countries play? this is inside story, the
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hello and welcome to the program on elizabeth put on them and 23 levels in the democratic republic of congo have taken control of the east and cities going uh, several international age groups and face the alarm about the humanitarian situation. with the un warning of mass displacement, food shortages and of foot and hospitals. since we moved in just over 3 years ago, the one the backed crew, has advanced steadily through the eastern biase, seizing towns and villages and forcing people from the hollins. and $23.00 is just one of hundreds of revel groups in the country. it has been fighting the army for years, but the laces escalation could mark a major shift with serious implications for regional stability. and go to a panel in just a few more minutes. but 1st sent in mont ahead has this report army uniforms and military equipment blowing to soldiers from the democratic republic of congo. abandoned on the streets of goma. the science of a roster treat as m 23 rebels supported by rwandan,
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troops advanced on the city. foreign military contractors were supposed to boost the drc. the defenses now many have been captured, taken across the border inter alonda, what your thoughts are, why we would let them go. we have told them if they even tried to come back to a different parts of the congo, but we will get them. and they will regret that many commonly soldiers were also captured. they've been battling the m 23 rebels for more than a decade. the d r c says the group is trying to seize control of mineral resources . but rolanda says the rebels are trying to protect the ethnic tootsie population in eastern d r. c. m. 23 is made of tootsie fighters who broke away from the categories army in 2012. the group is backed by rolanda, which in turn has enjoyed decades of military support from the west. the drc, these army is out mass, but the president says it will retaliate. you know, the bus does the vigorous, coordinated response against these terrorists and the sponsors is on the way out.
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valiant armed forces of the democratic republic of congo. symbols of courage and patry. it isn't fully mobilized, ready to defend every inch about territory. miss international attempts to stop advising happened unsuccessful dispute representatives of the r c, and rwanda had met with the un. however, a meeting of the 2 presidents men to be held uncanny of this week was canceled by regional groups have also been pushing for peace. but so far, diplomacy has failed. meanwhile, the people of goma are suffering. the un says water and electricity supplies up and cut off the thinking about this. it goes on need being able to come out because the guns have gone solid and we had to come out to find some water. in many homes, food is finished, the water is finished. the m 23 rebels to control the government in 2012, but were forced to retreat the following year. this time they may prove more difficult to push out,
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and there are concerns that the intensifying conflicts in eastern new york, cuckold instability across the great lakes region, vince and mountain al jazeera for inside story. the well that spring and i guess involve a template is the found a and she's campaign of save the congo, a grass roots campaign group working to end the conflicts and humanitarian crisis and the d. c. he joins us from london, which at moncrief is the project director for the great lakes region at the international crisis group. he's joining us from legal and friends and combining most of lee is an analyst at the center for research on the congo can shop. he joins us from the gun. they and capital opera a very well and welcome to all of you, richard. i'll stop with you and leo. this is not the 1st time the m. 23 has seized the strategic city of going uh, what's different this time to 2012, as well as the whole thing is small grades of the 20122013. so that's the 1st
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difference. no tiny of the i'm $23.00 and the runs and obviously it's government and, and output stream south into south cables. they've ceased vast areas of north kibo and they've been doing so for the last 3 years. so i think actually in very worryingly, the context is much more comparable to the civil war, is that the 1990 is why we saw the fighting spread it from north keybo across the hold of the commentary with the involvement of neighboring countries. so when 1st and foremost at the much greater scale than we were in 201213 unfortunately, i think also, you know, those changes in the international context as well. i think good as the i'm 20 three's back because include all the records that the international diplomats who in 2013 something across the rest stop. i roll the distracted by other issues at the moment and they can make that calculation for 3 years now. and i think i've been so far not actually proven correct. as i've expanded into the congo with
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fairly few codes, quite serious. um, on the random side. well, before we get to, if it's to de escalate the situation, i want to talk more about why the slicing has resurfaced once again valve of why is this regions so important to the m 23? is it about defending, you know, estimate to it, sees and the interest? so is it about the boss, middle welfare? oh, it's all about the bus, meaning it will well stuck. who has the reason to next, but still you need to, to come in, come to us, always sort of say, i've tried in junior was to bring us any evidence of any type of getting into the group even come go by the corners of all the countries police force over the past 12 months or 12 gauge. there isn't. because you know, there isn't an estimate issue income going is made up of some $500.00. it's new groups form of us. um,
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i know the 2 groups they're using to single group that is terminating over the people. be dynamics that'd be having run to it does not exist in color. so all of these states about natural resources and what is really critical for those who wants to understand these are the entities we could not have killed, rich abuse, displaced as many people as they have done. we thought to direct support from she gave me and see similarly we thought support money coming from milton, from the us, from canada, from germany. and that you countries, again, it could not have continued to so and write so much quasi said buttons incumbent. and the question is, what is the u. k, what is the us and canada kitchen? and we turn full funding and turning it in there being focused on these buttons in cold and combine a, it is cook ollie's role in the i. c. and it's support for m $23.00. that is such a big focus of this conflict. do you agree with valve,
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of that for the m 23. and even for bewanda, this is not about protecting ethnic tutsis. that this is about the vast mental wells. and what do you make of, you know, when for wanda says that the actions in the d i c r defensive because they are taking action against hooters that attack tutsis on both sides of the border. who to militias that full to them a the president of wanda says you is a threat to his government and for wanda. so let's look at the fact. the m $23.00 start of a at tech in 2021. has the to cover a few towns in controlled tunnel, but not gonna move forward to take it. if you more towns they took over by a, in rule by a, the reason my, the read by a might through why am i that is the largest quotes and reserve in the world. quote that he said, you know, research using electronic device according to the group of experts. they control
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all that. mine has generated a hardship, houses, and dollars a month in tech session. and these minerals atrocity institute got it. why don't we, we have such facts and then this is presented to the security council parking lot of say, the big plan is to protect the minority group into congo. the protecting mind workers in the coal tend by. so we don't know that's the reasoning of the justification, the run that may provide that the m 20 for me provide the extras does not show that this is why they are in the d r. c. we'll say by control of the land and the resources rich. and do you agree with that? the m 23 has a choose the call, the least government of not living up to the you know, the 2009 piece deal. and fully integrating candidly as to what sees into the army and the administration, do they have a legitimate grievance?
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i don't know, actually agree with the other guys, so i'm sorry, that's not great. so the device is it, but now i think i guess the other 2 guys are not to the right when you look at are one done and i'm trying to 3 justification subtractions. it looks very much like the austin based firefighter. there's a, an expression that smoke coming in french than an english, they own k b a whole month, which is someone who likes spies. the name comes along with a great because insides here. i can put them out of the to address this question of type sees um, as one of your best sides, there are many 1000 so many hundreds, at least sorry, of minority groups in the congo. perhaps some of them are under some pressure at different times, but it was very important to point out is that the actions of the i'm 23 as the last 3 years has made the position or company based totes these more difficult. and that's very important. i think to point out of the question of uh, reminder,
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taking defensive measures, well, defense the guys well because the rolanda this have been into the outcome go um, supporting them 23 since the beginning of 2022. when the, the m 23 about shortly space round to be up to 3 because i'm not sure what the history today by the way i'm at that time the s the law which is this nice the who to the group, albright so you know, keep it was up to low as a couple of years before that joint operations, but tween the role i'm done and they come release all of the we have succeeded in actually killing the leader of the state law. so the idea that based on how to invite the, i'll see in 202120 to 2, um uh, top down and the, the law, it simply makes no sense. it's simply the, the fit with the facts of the great. okay. so it sounds like all of you a saying whatever sweat the, who to munitions that in the d. c might be posing to a wanda. it doesn't justify the other ones and actions in the country. but given
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that they now control the biggest se in easton d, i see whether it's vast minimal wells and that they say that they are going to neighboring south tv province con release. president obama. let me come to you. the congress president felix just academy has said that he's going to have responded vigorously, but given just how quickly going myself to the rebels, who now control it, what are the prospects of the congolese all me re taken going on by force as the we've always known that the entrance is 3 and the all do yet are going to move from coma to become a b. c is not a great move relations to any commodities person and it was expected. and well, i'm expecting why? because these people are asking and i'm to the communities government encouraging phoenix, you think it is quite simple. the time is now to create an international cream and know try people come the one thing we know we have tried every single thing. we
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have tried piece deals, we have tried elections. we have tried to. um, so just print all the different, muddy should guns into the company's army. they have no work. they have not provided communities, people in the form of just the social security. well, we one student moving forward is to have more un, no, yes, but other than un trips, we need an international criminal tribunal for college. and the near total cost of infinity, which is purely any may bring people or could government to continue to fund. and to end up beat violence income. yeah, we know that bonus go, which was the, which is the, he wens peacekeeping force. in the d, i. c is one of the biggest un peacekeeping forces. and yet that hasn't been able to full stop the full of going to m 23 rebels. but when you talk about, you know, international criminal tribunal is these things take so much time. and $23.00 rebels are on the offensive. they are on the move, they are threatening to take of to go into south kiva of come
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body. do you think? can you see them? and we're wanda m. 23 rebels and jolanda facing the kind of africa and international, the mass of pressure. they faced last time a it is possible i was reading this morning that germany is requested during our eas financial support to run the we know in 2012. ready was able to rand name and $23.00 when the united states we felt a little bit of aids to run, but it wasn't even much. she was $200000.00, all the out of a training that they were supposed to do. we've run down the officers, us taking that action, allowed all the european nations to full assault. so then you had skipped imagine countries most suit, another land you had the world bank. you add the the african development bank. we've holding a to rhonda that single action of mission by king randa,
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supporting the financially made the wrong desktop supporting the n 23. and then these up here for almost a decade. oh, so we know what works. international pressure works when these apply on the aggressive mission, and that would give the space for them. what is the deal we've whatever issue the 2nd best buy. what is less than eddings is that we not seeing the same level of pressure in 2025 as it relates to run does action. we've seen the usual combination . we've seen step event where there was say, run that show. we've drove the soldiers from the call with the statements on not sufficient. yeah, that's really interested in what you're saying. we're not seeing the same level of pressure because as richard said earlier, this is much more serious than what we've seen in the past. he said that it's reminiscent of, you know, the beginning of the con, the leaves civil was in the late ninety's in early 2 thousands that resulted in the death of more than 5000000 people before talking about more,
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more of the efforts to try and de escalate the situation, which is how much to have it treated using the m $23.00 has its site settled as well? that's the question that was like 6, how follow up regarding the i'm 23 guys. i'm just like to re address a couple of points that you are the guys tonight to be made earlier. i agree entirely that maximum pressure on k godly is absolutely necessary this point to pull us back from a very precarious and worrying situation as the m 23. and we're wondering, is pushing to soft people but, and also a lot of pressure on the burdens, the burn, the, a government is already very in a very fragile state, but of floundering economy and so forth. we really are in a very, very difficult situation. and the maximum pressure underwent the is clearly a very necessary part of the equation. however, i have to say that we have to look at the other side. and we have to note that, wow, morally and in terms of international law,
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we can very much sympathize with contrasts or we've accomplished government. they have showed such, we close on the ground, they have been militarily unable to stop the invasion of that country. and that is, of course, a very difficult thing for them to accept and president to study. you know, not surprisingly, last night went on television and talked about continuing award, extra one dot net despite the fact that he's all be i'm going to put up some resistors effectively when it comes to defending government town. they sell state, they more or less melted away. so we go, the i real time i between the morality here, where did i i would agree, but the calendar has been the victim of aggression. but at the same time, on the, the stronger pops that he is imposing, practiced on the ground, which will necessarily speed into
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a negotiating position. so what influence on the international diplomats? so we're trying to sort this out. i mean, they need in a short time to try to stop close to before you're of the best of raise the question of international tribunals. but as you mentioned, that's not something you set up in a few weeks. whereas at the moment we really have the question in front of us and in front of international diplomats, whether africa, no or western of stopping the regional here, i don't think that's a long historic saturated baba. in the meantime, m. 2020 has merged with 17 political parties, several groups to form the congo river lines if led by former election commission chief, who's from weston, interested in the, from west and the see, i mean, how much of a growing threat is this alliance to the congolese government? they seem to have national aspirations here even of over throwing the congolese government a well, the, the reason such thing as dan 23, we need to be company funk while we are facing. what are we going to see but basing
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it all and yet the see through london of the co name, then go and everyone else behind doing tools of puppets. i'm fighting on behalf of the gun. me why the side except to reach a point and this is up so that you've got to and is an open secret that felix the security, the company's president is completely incompetent and it has failed to rise to the child and he has failed to, you know, pay soldiers accordingly. i spelled to create a molded on it. yeah. spoke to so many things. but we must also remember that because these government to communities owe me to call these people are fighting against the country that receives $1000000000.00 every single year from there was in 2021. when and 23. we had management pulled together, begun funding, and 7 soldiers going to kill, to break through the space. people being too much the criminal to the west. cape polk, i'm the one p,
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then another 1000000000 was different in 2000 and try to do another one between 2023 another 1000000000 in 2024. and in 2025, you would also receive another 1000000000. you cannot fight against someone who is receiving so much support. how much training so much goes from the worst and also being protect, expose that was from spacing of my comfortability, which i talked about international. pretty much the take things to know. but how, how, how long did you take us to indulge uh, front of it puts you anything but shuffle. jennings, white people in ukraine. somehow when it comes to black, people being killed when it comes to drugs for being killed, been to national just the system takes longer. but when it's what lives we talked and then just somehow we found a way to indulge. but let me put you in english. uh, and some of these people we've been in less than a year is this is what we think international committee to combine a as vasa has pointed out,
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there has been billions of dollars that have been that have gone to rwanda. a lot of it from western nations. bewanda is the strongest military in the region, and we have to talk about it's not the only country, of course that's involved in the d i. c, which it has been talking about, you know, troops from devonte. and in fact, we have the warranty and government troops that are supporting the con, the lease army, and they are fighting for warranty and rebels and south keeping province on the border with balloon. they talk to us about the real danger of this conflicts building of the d. c. many board is the different trips or they have uh they have 4 different plans that we have. we have so far for kind of my lot we, we have funds in the world that part of the mission of the united nation and also the mission of subject. and i think brewing these there for the same thing for his own security and the context of what we are talking about. we have the versions of
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rwanda, even though we have spent a lot of time with the camp by rhonda is that we cannot talk about one that we buy uganda. and the pens. me is the most people who may be watching this may not be able to take the time to read a 160 page report from the united nation group of experts about when you open the human group of experts, you and the stands of why we are all almost sounding the same, right. and then we use this per military using drones using a bit system as weapon of these all the evidence that the you and group of experts are presenting. yeah. richard, we, i, i want to put this question to but should, because we only have about 5 minutes left in the program. richard bos, rolanda and uganda have had a history of military interventions in the d. c. they, as you know, therefore, in the 1st colleagues will on the same side in the 2nd call, these will support and rival groups. do we know what the relationship between those
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2 countries as now and how that might affect the m $23.00 and it's advances they will that to 5, but it's, we need ahold of the program and the one you don't get the whole 5 minutes. a good, i shouldn't be lost to speed and that's what i was just gonna say. are you going to run the relations is always fluctuates him. but at the moment we see some very worrying signs of very seeing the people in uganda or including the son of the president, making some noises in support of the 23 ever wanted evaluation of no. okay, but i'm not sure where he is. so all right, bob, up can the underlying, the political, the social economic issues that have fueled instability in the d. c for so long. how can they be solved? is a military solution can, can that be part of the solution? you know, he's speaking, this is justice. we've all just is chromeboys. no,
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they're stopping to see any piece. and that just this would only be safe in the form of an international frame. you know, type, you know, so come with that needs to be done at the moment. so my mind, my hope to my prayers, i really wish the people the around the clock. this is a use on life. and so how it coming up in the next 60, the is extraordinary, unemotional seems to me occupied westbank and gum a $110.00, promising in prisoners are released after a delay imposed by his radio for the 3 is really captives. and 5 times.

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