kind of watching surveillance tech is key to sustaining israel's occupation. you don't necessarily know who's watching you at the training. it's about the official intelligence, the use of a simulation object sort of, they have to control as you can then. so around the globe are very, very sophisticated at a i can collect them q the palestine, the bar 3 point one on that just you know, what little shape syria's future it's new president has promised to unify the country in his 1st speech to the nation consists of a form of government that reflects the serious diversity, but after more than a decade of civil war, hope challenging is the road ahead. this is inside story, the

hello and welcome to the program. i'm several then yay middle. shara is syria's new president, and we're getting hints of what his government might look like. he has promised big temporary legislative council will pass laws for the time being, and that it will be inclusive of serious various groups infections. the international community is applying pressure to make sure he keeps his promises, but can sure uh, bring his country together and will his government be able to improve the last of the story and people who been battered by more than a decade of war. we'll get to our guests and just a moments 1st though, fenton monahan has this report that's our local and then from leader of an opposition, our group to syria is interim president, a lot. and l. shara says it may take 4 years before elections can be cold, but in that time, he'll prove that his government can unite the syrian people. and the need to call the you realize, this is a transitional phase and it's called the political process that will require the commitment of all the serial people inside and outside of the country to builds

that future with dignity and freedom without any marginalization sorry, note that we will walk on forming a transitional cabinet that will reflect the different categories and components of the syrian mation. we'll also build a new institution until we reach the phase of fat and transparent election. these are the people celebrate the beginning of the transition. shara has already abolished the constitution and does all parliament for moving remnants of the top of us government transitional council will pass laws until the new constitution is adopted. on thursday cut, there's a mirror shaped coming bahama autonomy became the 1st foreign leader to visit since the full of us up the cost where you government is price serious progress so far. let's go to come. have you click on add, add or not into the we truly thank you for the announcement you made yesterday about the end of the revolution phase and the transition to the phase of establishing the states reconstruction and unifying side by side with all the

children of the syrian people to build this nation, possibly they'll. shara was the leader of a sunni army group. syria is majority sunni, the smaller numbers of sheer christians, drew's and others. he's promised that the new syria will be inclusive and respect the rights of minority groups and women. but the us in europe have concerns. he'll need to win their support in order to ease international sanctions. the eu has laid out a roadmap, but the approach is cautious. we reached the political agreement to begin at using sanctions on syria. this cause give a boost to syrian economy and help the country get back on its feet. why we aim to move fast? um, you know, we also are ready to reverse the course. if the situation worse, since syria will need all the help, it can get many of it said he's lying ruins, a decade of war and sanctions has destroyed the economy. the un says around

13000000 people are going hungry, and more than 7000000 are displaced. whatever shape the syrian government takes, its ability to unify the country and approve the lives of the people may prove the most spiteful measure of its success. bins, monahan, elders, era for inside story. the so let's bring in our guests in geneva, denny, of ours, vice president of the syrian for him, for advocacy and public relations. he also led to cabinets of syria's deputy foreign minister. this was in the late 2 thousands in norman oklahoma. joshua land is director of the center for mentally studies at the university of oklahoma and in washington, dc mohammed, all of the executive director of the serial justice and accountability center on warm welcome to each of you, then any. let's start with you at this very moment, the future of syria rests, i was gonna say exclusively, not exclusively, but largely on the shoulders of the new syrian president ahmed. i'll show up in

your assessment of the man, is he up to the task? thank you very much for hosting and uh yes, so now what we have seen is that there is a vision. there is a plan on this guy is delivering quality is promising. saw been torn president, but much shut out. but was the fact to us since day one, acting as a president has all the power. so actually do all the steps needed to ensure security to uh, base the main main steps towards any kind of transition. how old are you seeing him basically, uh, meeting all these the does all these veritas are all around the world showing up in the military, um, the termination that he wants to continue making the best out of the victory that sees some t like so. uh, there were other scenarios that we might have anticipated,

or people who are wishing for. however, lets see clear. this is the most part of my check. yep. turn the toyota stick kind of scenario that everybody expect. now we have a hot shot power, and now we know who would be responsible for all these steps. and he's definitely going to be monitoring not on the internationally, but definitely by every single syrian how actually bolt the last 14 years to reach the moment of truth. which we hope to see soon by having the free elections that's he mentioned and has a speech to the timeline for those elections to happen is about 4 years per se, but that's the timeline that sharah has, has indicated joshua is sure i have dissolved parliament, dissolved the army cancel the constitution or these in your view, necessary steps to rebuilding syria or could it be a dangerous power grab? well, i think it's both. we don't know yet whether that's the real. that's the real answer here is we don't know in which direction is going to go in his speech, which was

a very moving speech. the 1st half was extraordinarily moving and talking about for the rest of the nice people. yes, and he, he, he but, you know, we've, we've seen syrian leaders come to power and speak and the name of the people that talk about helping the peasants, the workers, the, the, the people who've been discriminated against before. and then we've seen it turn into dictatorship, and we don't know which way it's going to go today in his speech. he talked about free elections, but he also talked about a government based on justice and consultation. so he's speaking to 2 different audiences. one audience is the more secular syrians who want democratic elections, much like the west and the other is an audience that's looking for justice. but

consultation also means something is long and context where you have a shorter and this. so he is, he hasn't really decided which way his government is going, whether it's going to go in a, in the past of a secular democratic western type government, or whether it's going to go in and his law mich passed with justice and consultation and, and that it remains to be seen because many of the people who brought him to power are expecting much more as long as the government is in a western type of government. mohammed them came to your point of view. here's sharah as stated, roadmap for the future of syria, the immediate future. one form a new transitional government that reflect serious diversity to form a small legislative body. small legislative body to make laws 3, hold a national dialogue for draft a dialogue. i'm serious future, right. what the country should look like then draft a new constitution, then go to elections. all of this should take for years. is this in your view,

a good roadmap for syria, both on paper and in practice. a good morning, while the mike list items that cdns have demanded from day one after the clock special i said, i have not seen that to be the most positive gland to be honest sort of loss reasons. one sort of has already been in the president of syria defect, all the bodies of parliament has been dissolved. the fact of the constitution has been suspended of council also. and the fact though, and of the life has a boss party or, or the security agencies or the meeting at all be gone. so what he announced after $54.00 days of being and by what i'm doing, all that things, he announced what's happened on the somebody, it would be some but then when it came from his lip to, to the muscle. that's, that was about the 2nd part to you is if you read the end between of the speech where the dialogue to discuss our vision of the government versus what was the day a look should look like a month ago when has 20 minutes stuff shaped by the state that enjoyed done the day

of love with look would, would set the nature of then you'll see the on the stuck shot or, or the type of, of the new cdn. the 2nd part is what's the, so i'm not sure i'm getting the new us. the video that he wants is the dialogue the day look should be an equal footing. shouldn't be with every one a get for there's some that you on the special voice, the invite that sort of, that they look from re up in front of the cdn for the minister when he was under the of the you on this things to bring everybody in a quote for thing versus what the sort of said yesterday. here's a speech basically that they love to discuss. our vision of the government has on visit and not the city. and so i have a concern i'll be coming here to newport 14, but be coming to be done for our last party inviting. the other part is to discuss that about spark is vision of power. that is the other parts quickly here. and if you, if you look at the, in general, the statements he made about making this transition to get on to something on the getting people to make it to representative. and again,

we have not seen the consultation. we don't know. what's that? again, if you have this, i'm not questioning and if he's very effective president, they'll see me on this. most of them haven't honestly 50 days before, but the promises he's making this is my concern. the promises he's making for syria was beyond the sort of deal for transitioning to president of the time period you are in prison transitioning president to be in office. you cannot speak about all these things. why do we tell us, you are in the same time just in the room, you're just appointed to take care of them, but over the country and you're waiting for it for this election. and the other 3 quick things. he decided to deal with the city of to be president shuttle that's not part of the military, not the other type of government and also inherently centralized states when he spoke about printing his authority to an over cdn every, like every single inch of cd or so give me just yeah, that's kind of already setting the stage for the chord saying decent the and for that there was a story that no decent organization is going to be presidential system. these should have been decided, a national dialogue, not the speech. okay there's,

there's a lot in there and i think that really lays the basis for, for this conversation that we're having today. danny, what i'm hearing when i listen to what mama just say it, is it really the devil is in the details? saying we're going to hold elections a national dialogue. elections a new constitution. ok. there's no real. there's nobody really that disagrees with the end goal of a new constitution and elections and an inclusive government, but it is how you get there. and what that ends up really looking like that i think is, is the question we're debating today based on the 54 days. and that's, i think it's fair to say 54 days is not a whole lot of time right after 50 years of the, of a side rule based on the 54 days that are metal sharah has been in power. what do you see there and does it give you more hope or more concern? so what's to come? it looks actually, i mean, we're seeing certain steps that show for example,

dealing with the regimes regime supporters for example, we have seen some uh, violations, human rights violations. as in areas, oliver, people were expecting much way why they're trying to violations and has been dealt with and, and i do to wait till now. on the other homes we have seen kind of a confusion about searching decisions, especially when it comes to economic calling and uh, financial. so it's clearly a doctor what they have. i mean, uh, foundation government when they choose to go for an outlet, that was the 1st on the space i sent you a graphical area with very limited resources, but also they themselves where like a kind of a small government that's running the day to day surfaces and, and how do they watch off and g o as that's used to also health and the same error . now they're facing reality. now the, the, the heavy weight of the big inheritance from the phone that solved regime is

facing them. plus we have this huge bureaucracy that is called state institutions that need 3 form that needs to work on. we, you can start, you cannot off to the ministry of for enough for us to stop, for example, and then rebuild. you have to break, they want to fire one sort of sort of surgery to, to begin with. they want to reduce the size there to, of the government and not the government. but i of the bureaucracy that's, that's, that's a choice. you do the acts, you assigned people home and then you wouldn't be facing another social problem from the other hand because these people names work. so unless you start connecting based on your run, i'm have enough jobs in the market. this would be only, i think, for the burden off the, the social or the social role of the government. so you don't really see the confusion, oliver has, you know, how much subjects take it step by step. i'm, let's see if i is the upcoming transitional government is inclusive. if to come across with a good sieves, um, good history of a pro 4 is

a bunch of as least investors in key areas within each technical ministry from agriculture to the communication, to power, to uh, uh, oil and administer the resources are appointed and make one then yes, this my task hold on, i believe they have no other force bought to go the off. the question would be also, if we're going to have this, the duration who is going to be there on the table in order to make sure that this declaration is in line, was the minimum standards, all international standards of human rights are 1st backed, all sorry. what's that for us? just give me an issue on some additional declaration. what would in effect be a new constitution going forward at least for the next few years? is that what you mean? yes, in that sense, at least to know how is the division of power between the 3 or 4 of these is there

we should see and the separation of clear cops respect for the traditional uh, therapy docs, the brass off the government to see this independent mixture specter then there is not a few assets this work. otherwise, if everything will come from the logistics of brash from the government to tell the judge is what to do, then we haven't done before. can do some chart for exactly repeating the mistakes on my side. so this is what we need to wait and see that kind of distribution between power and the bottom. and so was going to monitor how for sure. i know one thing the people are monitor and the people has their eyes open because they can not afford any more any delay and moving forward as syria. otherwise, there's a huge risk. everything must collapse. see, mohammad looked a little skeptical there. we'll get to you in a 2nd mohammed, joshua, how much of a runaway do you think i'm at all sure. has that he's been in it. he's been in power 50 plus days at this point. i think everybody can agree that is not a lot of time by any measure, by any standard to rebuild a nation,

but he is saying the timeline, the horizon is 4 years now, when you're starting to look at 4 years, there is plenty that leaves plenty of time for people to be disgruntled and for, you know, this transition to go off the rails in one of a 1000000 different ways and how much trust do you think there is ensure uh, how much of a runway as well. and this is a honeymoon period, and i think the syrians are extraordinarily thankful and grateful that he has defeated the outside bridge. him and so he has a tremendous amount. i think of this of capital for this honeymoon period, but it will run out and it will run out fairly soon because he's, he's being extraordinarily ambiguous about how as your other commentators have already said about how it's going to unfold. and he's talking about bringing together all the syrians and yet the entire kurdish northeast of syria is not under

government control. the drew's area is not under government control and drew's are saying, we're not going to go under government control until you give us a position in the government, which he has not done. the ally white's 12 percent of siri on the coastal regions are being purged from the government institutions as we speak and our it, it under considerable duress. they are very fragmented and disorganized now, but they won't remain that way forever. so he has a certain amount of time, but the siri isn't a dilemma as, as both of your, your speakers have have said it needs authority because 40 percent of the country is ruled by foreign armies. turkey has well, 13 percent in the north america, 30 percent, and israel's to grab the big hunk on the go along. and how do you, how do you consolidate the nation without a strong man? and yet at the same time, syrians have had it so many strong men, they want a constitution, they want rule of law. so he's torn between the still

a encrypted and, and it's, it's going to be a very difficult path ahead. but you ask, how long will it's honey moon last or rather you're hearing more and more voices that are critical and who want a share of power and they're not getting it. and, and i note that there was only a few days ago, a protest, a small one, but a protest nonetheless, that took place and there are against the plans to cut jobs in the civil service, right in the bureaucracy. and this, that's something you would not have seen under the charlotte side. people were protesting against what they called the arbitrary dismissal within the bureaucracy . mohammad whose supports can nominate, i'll show up count on for now. now this is a very important point to indeed because that's what i was just mentioned. that seems to address things to audiences on select easy, heavy bays that help him fight the sub. and when military may, but also his think that is the cd and people

a lot of the more of the why the stadium, the secular, the minorities, i'm more importantly to him and his vision and the west. because he's waiting for an international legitimacy listening sanctions of the building a reconstruction find out a single of syria. and so the point is, i'm going to shut it as nothing drains capitalize on the cdn public and the people who and called loved him. the people who are just mentioned that they're happy, they got the 1st time they just don't want it to be that story again. and if i'm going to shut out on for the election, honestly, if i missed and he was won by a vast majority, nobody would stand facing him. and this election, the pointy it is the dynamic of the, internally of high up the how do i some, how much i'm a set as willing to go to the international and the most multi lot. so i made shuttle for stage where he works with them. i know that the point to women in position we have split to can park participation of every other party. and the government versus have being just on bay is where they're demanding more share over the phone. wire to the, for the hard with him,

the stand it all that difficult to use of it live and the fighting against that. our son was on the see didn't minister me. so he's, he's, in my opinion, looking to get to visit, to miss the from the international visits coming to damascus for meeting with the international importance people versus the state. and i get very small example in my area for the human rights i'm of that sort. i met with the mother of austin times the american at present, that old hosting doesn't disappear, didn't see the on the team and us others even times easiest to meet with. any model for cdn missing is best on all those uninstall isn't easy to, to make a visit just not yet. but that's your 1st thing that you, what you became a symbol of, of basically the self funding of syria and the city i was doing the establish him, he's more things to gain the legitimacy. and so the legitimacy of the international, that's why we have to speech as we have the one of the rest of the, with the i see by me the for the minister stands in davos. but then when you come back to see that you get the phone administer and does nothing guessing much on the, on the vision of the see they've got the administrative justice to execute

a woman when he was the judge ends up. not the most fun, isn't it? but now he's is the head of the minister of justice and he is the one with the task . theoretically with the transmission of justice, profile cbs, you get the minute to suppose to change in the relatively short order, right? because the car right now we, we agreed to show ross team is the team that was running it live. and it's a point that danny was making earlier. it lives a very small specific corner of syria. small population in the north west right now. sure. us team is the same thing that was running. it lives is 2017, pretty much, but the prime minister has until march. and then as i understand it, the transitional government is supposed to be a different team. now this is very important to us. see if that's what happened honestly, because that was the very 1st initial announcement that this government is going to be there for 3 months and march. but then i said, i made a change on said the cost that use investing news 3 years that makes it needs 40 years and no one has a speech. he didn't take any of it for us and the promise of the city months,

positioning us. but it isn't gonna change the cabinet. i hope so. so i wish to i, i want him to change this cabinet. i want him to bring a government that to present all syrians. i want to bring people, as benjamin said, they cannot cross who has g. c, v is no human rights recognition. there's nothing better to swap less of that, you and the us and that you, we have a lot of problems with the way the city of govern today. but again, this is a very short period of time, as you mentioned, which this thing how he's going to respond to the actions of a lot of the cdns. what would be monday morning, the presence of government and motor functioning so that you can see why because then this would not change. there's going to continue and this way on. there is basically a lot of stuff on it and people going through cutting the civil service from the government is causing finance that it shows on the city of a shudder will be faced with a big dilemma. financially is unable to feed the cdns. if you look at the national visit so far, a lot of them came with the with, with condition they did not actually puts money on the table. yes. they're waiting for that. let me ask them to send it out is. yeah, your point is well taken on the,

on the financial difficulties that syria is in right now. the many western countries have sanctions, economic financial sections on syria. that is the case of the u. s. the u. k. the european union, the united nations, we heard earlier that use considering lifting sanctions, but they have done that yet. should danny and your of you should all these countries lift the sanctions or should be continue a pollutant can keep them on in order. this is what they're doing now to apply pressure on. sure, well, let's define the divide functions into 2 groups to boston suite. how that targeted functions, which is after the course, human rights violators, industries, as or entities as companies that has been involved in dot or chronic capital. this of, of, i thought functions for this should be there. it should be even research more the more for size and try to bring back to the same people, the money that we're starting from. now, the other bhaskar,

it's district tauriel functions, which was one. it was the post the link to gross human rights violations. if we do find all the citations president, at least, and faith stopped happening anymore, the main reason behind it and having a solve a power and i saw their human power dodge for them. the main reasons behind it is not. they are able to use it as a bargaining chip to make sure that the transition is in line or for the west long or what is the international community. one might not be fair to the serious people who has been suffering a lot because of the sanctions. and we've seen that people have been dom oscar for fee and how much the quality of life, caustic degrade it. so, and if we want someone to stand against any future authoritative version, let's make sure that the resilience of the same people is there that we empower them. and that's where i'm not fighting them off with their food with fi

electricity. with the 1st meal services was even a small transactions of money from the, the, the x xbox, and the, the extra into the country. let's open that there. and then the 1st result we can see is that the resilience of the people would be taught to be built again if we want to, to start their role houses as people monitoring or bolting or asking for, change the facts to be through lifting defections. now i do agree that more than you want to jump in because we have about a minute list. i want to make sure i want to make sure i get one last one in 2, joshua joshua, this is an unfair question, caveat, but if you have to guess with a minute left on the show, what do you think? syria will look like 5 years from now. well, 1st of all, i think america should lift sanctions, but in 5 years this government will never get off the ground, are difficult, with sanctions imposed on it and with its oil sequestered in the northeast. and

secondly, in 5 years, i think we'll have a strong man in syria. i think they'll be considerably improved over the outside regime of this government is going to represent a much broader part. syria is in the last government did. but on the other hand, i, i do think it's very difficult to see how this constitution is going to unroll, because syria is, remains extraordinarily divided. and you know, what do you and everybody says for years for it, for elections. but it was algebra 0. who asked him, how could there be elections and for years, and he said there could be, he didn't promise selections. and for years he said it was a possibility. and now everybody is clung to that for years. but we don't really have a firm and promise timeline. all right, that's the time we have for today. i'd like to when we think all our guests joining us will of course discuss syria again going forward. thank you. to danielle buyers,

joshua landis and mohammed i looked at the joining us. thank you to for watching. can see the program again any time by visiting our website. that sounds real 0. com for further discussion. go to our facebook page at facebook dot com, forward slash a inside story. you can also join the conversation on x r handle there at asia inside story for me. so then yeah, and the entire team here in don't bye for now. the there is no channel that covers world news like we do as a roman correspondence, i am constantly on the go covering topics from politics, to environmental issues. like nothing ever seen. what we want to know is how do these things affect people? we revisit places day even when there are no international headline houses there

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