pretty much as i like old times, i didn't say that that would be for 40 years facing realities. what does donald trump's re election mean pretty tough. it is most important that we focus on how to work with president trump thought provoking on self. and your wife is dealing with the climate crisis is a crisis of crisis times perks. there's not just one price is up via the store on talk to how does era the london by rebels involves an eastern democratic republic of congo. they captured a regional capital and a value to each control. so the conflict is closing humanitarian crisis, come mediation by regional leaders. stop for fighting. this is inside store the

hello get on change phase. hundreds of people killed. hundreds of thousands falls from that homes a week long offensive by run than by rebels and eastern democratic republic of congo is spiraling into a regional crisis. un experts estimated last year close to full 1000 roman soldiers are involved. congestive says the m 23 group wants to control the area. those rich and minerals are wanting to deny supporting the rebels and says is to play trips to stop the fighting from spreading into its territory. leaders from south and east and africa trying to mediate between the 2 sides. will the efforts succeed or could the crisis expand into a wider conflict? we'll discuss all of this with a public spot shortly. but 1st the support from joe levins. in the last week, a decade long conflict has intensified as the rwandan back forever was captured, the city of go in the east of the democrats republic of congo. hundreds of

civilians have been entering the nose keys, who capital searching for safety since last year. when rebel forces led by m 23 began occupying territory in the province. now some of returning home fluid able to get the i'm going back home because m 23 asked us to come back. and they said our security was guaranteed here. and i believe it is now the hospital was in go struggling to cope with an influx of wounded people, days of to fight, to seize control. we screw ve the people who we have been facing civil cases of mass casualties. we are receiving engine people from o rosa, and we have treated more than 1000 wounded at this hospital among the women children and even pregnant women. come galleys, governments, spokes person says hundreds of people have been killed and thousands injured in the latest fighting sinus because the other method is it is not a single get was there on 1 pm on sunday when i was in my touch with other people

and a bullet hit me in the abdomen. i didn't know where it came from, not my friends immediately took me and brought me here to the hospital since sunday . they have been treating me and i have started to recover the m $23.00 is one of several groups competing for control of congress east, which holds huge deposits of minerals, critical to much of the world's advance technology. united nations expos say the group is backed by 4000 troops from neighboring ruined as they push forward. pressure is mounting on rwanda over the elect support. during the summer leaders of the southern african development community express concern over heavy losses suffered by it's combined task force and discussed next steps for the communities mission. in the d. c. the rwandan president polk ami rejected criticism over his country's role in the conflict of interest city. most of london's please.

rwanda is also facing by class from further afield. the united states has told the gully it is deeply troubled by the federal government. germany has canceled a talks with randa. well breton has said, $40000000.00 upon your assistance is on this right. the southern african development community, you have pledge to continue working towards the solution until the end, the future of tens of thousands of people remains on certain joel evans how to 0. so inside stores. well let's discuss this further with a panel of guests today who are joining us in robi, we have nickel davis, monday. it was such with the east africa peace and security governance program at the institute for security studies in k tenants, south africa, crystal oldest son as a journalist for the african report,

a quarterly magazine that focuses on african politics and economics. she spent a decade reporting from conflict zions on the continent and in new york you can get at a go k is editor of summit for africa, part of the seminal global news website. thank you. all 3 of you for joining us. maybe stop. i think about time with you crystal, because it's being a greeting situation in the eastern part of the democratic republic of congo for years and years and years. but rarely is it being as bad as this. absolutely. james . we see thousands of people being displaced. we see hospitals overrun, and i think it's a humanitarian tragedy that these unfolding last year, this time we were talking about this. it's been an issue literally for almost 50 years. and these being very little effort to actually deal with the issue. we know that in 2012 go my also file, but through mediation and tools to resort within um that the troops was due. and

now we seeing the absolute defensive and of course on the ground. absolutely atrocious. and you saw last week, of course, the big told case because we've got the law just contingent fighting in that side. big um, contingent in the d. r. c. but the still now at 14 sylvester console, just add 3 malawi and so it's a big domestic issue. yeah. as well, that be is a big issue one. so that because already preparing for the influx of refugees from the d. r c. i think secondly, mother kimberly a huge criticism. yeah. in south africa because these, the feeling that the southern tubes all ill prepaid feel a quote and they are not surprised at the days told being go a month. and they be expecting that the soul of soul, just a note. and the humanitarian crisis to actually increase. you can care where you have this situation and get him a, which is a city that's got a swelled population because already so many displaced, people had gone to get him a fee. is that you and say about clean water?

food medical supplies, because the added thing is the government was the regional humanitarian hub, dealing the old we came out of turn, a really was big distribution from government. yeah, i mean best, this is totally correct. i mean, for, for 4 months now people have been streaming into, to go by as a way to, you know, gets away from the source of the military. correct? the existence of the region. and the point you made was made in the report earlier about this spread. it is a real, it's a real concern. you have to understand that's a deal for you alone, but you include in the one that you've gotten to this list, this region spreads over a space that covers the size of western europe. this is a really serious concern. so it's, um, it's something that's uh, we're gonna have to see what happens next in terms of the way this is a,

this was addressed a good time is, can we just look back quickly? what happened militarily in the last week? because m 23 did get a pretty spectacular victory given the forces that were in coma. because you had the congolese army, you had militia that were backed by the democratic republic of congo. you had some bus and race, i believe that will remain in an french most and roost. it'd been hard by the congolese government. you had the soldiers from the room date, which were fighting on the side of the d. c. and then they also managed to bypass the regional p peacekeeping force. and the un peacekeeping force. i mean, it quite, quite amazing, really. yeah, you can understand from that question the complexity in the multiplicity of those that are involved in these concepts. and of course, in order for us to really ask right questions, it's also important to understand the story to call

a jewel political as well as the contemporary fuck does that. i've linked to this particular um setting up will be configured in the past week or so. so you look at the fee and the visa process is an attempt from the field or the fragile alonda process, which is an a you back to process which again, late december to the 24th. we sold this present government failing to attend this signing of agreement. and of course these ledge to these 0 a series of events that i've been experiencing, if in the beginning of the month of january, leading to then take all the other tunnels such as my cc me nova ultimate to suck. and then of course, would be so this week we've taken over gomez. so you can understand these doors, the story corps context or as well as the multiplicity of does that really existed meeting this situation. got entry, the crystal,

we still have present to gummy denying that his government supports m 23. he used to say that he had no trips in, in come go live up, but now they do admit they've got troops because the, even the you and the same estimate, the got about at least 4000 trips in the country. landon's government spokeswoman said recently, we're not interested in bull. we're not interested in amex ation. we're not interested in raising change. do you believe that? what do you think rolanda is realism is? no, i don't believe a james because since 3 to 12 different you we kind of little expects, which i'm sure every thoughts that you will have seen to have pointed out through one of these is involvement with in 23 and of course every time daddy's mention but one that makes it very clear that they are not supposed to in 23, we just saw in south africa best we could absolutely public relations offensive fire. why don't on i'll be waves every day. um,

from the foreign minister to the spokesperson. really denying this, but we know that you wouldn't expect to know has people on the ground? i mean, these reports are really investigated. so by the time it gets to the un security council, these be absolute factors. and so we've had the stripped foot test with the $139.00 supporting in $23.00. and i think the leaders and the you wouldn't in particular not being very soft. um we know that to the wanda we, we know the different reports coming out around the mendel balls being exported. it seems to i think the evidence is oh, big, but i think they spin and what's interesting this week we sold president silver. i'm also being very clear about saying that troops cannot be killed and if this continues, you know, they will be consequences, basically declaring war and we immediately, soulful, could god me getting so angry, taking to social media, look to the attacking civil ramos and stuff, and basically accusing him relying and also being split this rate. janine was, um,

it was really interesting this today of words between the 2 leaders. and i do think again, i think the, at least the way we see it is that clearly the civil ramos that have steps to know of pull comment, quoting out immediately down and what these different, i think the spec silverado, so it was part of the southern kids of states meeting that took place, eating her already. i liked to this like last week. and so we, so we see sided leaders coming very fun in terms of a support for the full, the subject group. so these cut made is thinking that the subject groups will be leaving eastern congo. that's not going to happen. i do think one of these very key is that sadie and especially saw that forget needs to put pressure on a bunch of shots. and critics that you're getting particular because he's absolutely keeping silent on this matter except for coming to you, you can get,

we'll come back to that very full diplomatic picture of what can be done in a moment. but i'd like to get to a very basic point, i think, for all of us who perhaps haven't been to the region i've only visited gotten during the day. i'll see once. and it's very evident when you get the government is right on the border with rwanda. and, and the distance between the running and capital k gully is just a 100 kilometers from gamma. whereas the capital of d. c contessa is about one to 5500 kilometers away. luwanda sees this is backyard. it's sphere. influence does it not? yeah. certainly does. in terms of, uh, goma, but obviously that's also, it's not just about a distance. it's also about, you know, the ethnic ties between the tutsis who thought if essentially lead lawanda. i think it said that from now that takes us back to the to the 1994

genocide which is still right. act a factor in this. yes. 100 percent. it is that the, you know, even though you will fall 2020 the, it's a benefit to you like to know more about that the later you look fault that's uh many of those people will have died and then you know, go comfortable. but this is very much a factor when you listen to the kinds of things that the leaders of, of the rebels talked about. they might be younger people, but it's still a huge concern in that, in that region. it's not just about the distance, it's about the fact that they are, they believe they are, they are not pressed people. and that they need to defend themselves that need to defend the region. and they also have support from their london's, even though the runs was denied. and even though they also a price on size, the claim that runs it has nothing to do with it that they all companies and that they simply want to, um, you know,

defend themselves. but they've now moved beyond that. and it's because in the end $23.00 themselves of no lines with the colorado river lines, this is becoming more of a nationalist move. but now that dale was now saying, we are going to keep track of that now. so it makes us feel free to have enough troops, but you know, quite frankly, in the military tubs, it could be more about their organization of the weakness of the deals, the government. so, and the all see organization. so we could be, this could become very quite, quite serious if they do move forward that it would just be about, or why the, it would be about, you know, who, who, who actually controls being talked. i'm 3 of the democratic republic of congo, nicodemus, on that point, as you've just heard from you can, could the, the m,

23 parts now of a wider alliance. is that just window dressing to make it look like it's not just the m 23 or is the, is that a real thing? do you think there was a real prospect of them going all the way to construct a vast distance in a vast country? but it is west reminding people that they were it was, it was a precedent that were wanda, helped. the former leader alone could be left in a campaign, the toppled mabood to the dictator back in 1997 as well. of course the that's these, the recording ones that i'm, i've of, i mentioned in metro duction that of course these, these historical subject to that stems from these other they mention 94 often most of the genocide and reached out to you though when you ask about the role of one day and all of these, they will notice claim that to them none. so these 1994 general said

a station to move to, to east on cold wind. rough organize themselves in the form of these if the latter forces, which is a whole daughter when we add one that uses the dfcs for the walk in that in go to the end. so you can understand the one that's fi as and of course you mentioned the estimate the estimate on was as well, is that geographical proximity and then you're going to go fuck does. but again, going back to the question of whether or not they would be, they would sprayed, sprayed, to be on the go i'm of course, it states that i've been given right now. we the, i of see that is the lines or the lines. the community for our lines is you could see the want to capture the cd is such as cover that easy and soft keyboard. and of course, that meant that straight to that they wanted to proceed and compare contrast. and you can see some form of geo political as well as in donald domestic, fucked as ranging from the stores. cool. uh, an image that came from the they,

uh they still go up to such as, you know, the 1st and 2nd goal that document relates to the the throne. you know, the, um, what, what does this, this vehicle in coming those lower on could be less. and you can understand is that a doubly that ease of cause of warranty? uh, kind and key. and of course, these regional f, what's is it lays international pressure is an attempt to really raining on the prospects which again, when the president's looking, do you know, you would definitely need to, or you know, that much to teach us is the, is we have actually and claimed crystal, whether the heading to control us or not. it does seem that now moving from government, which is a north key bu, towards south key. bu how worrying is that? and does it also have implications for the written de, because south keybo boat is burgundy, burundi has interests and soft people. who do you indicated already that base

cheapest as a see respect and they will be honest, which again is a major concern because as previous cutting safety per diem is, you know, we could see the scene, you know, in just in golf the entire region. i think my, my challenge is that this comes at a time. we go politics, these foss, changing with the trump presidency. we saw you with a being kind of we, we know the consequences of both a cuts or diet, not just income, go, but across africa. and with the dia, humanitarian situation unfolding, i think not just being in government and have a pods. these tend to be very level. i put type for humanitarian support. and this is where you really need actors like the you like the new a new case. and the new ways to really come out strong and false. one the end of the your seat to the mediation table. i mean we soul with can near and then go low

as the regional mediators. i think these, oh, these kind of system because we just, we see we never do tell moving on some aspects, but we don't see and goes up coming up strongly to get the policies, the law stokes welding the same bus. and we know that she said it didn't teach up, which of course cost some more and go between the wanda and the d. c. and i think ultimately for me, the concern is given the dice, state of geo politics in the world, it's ultimately innocent women and children and communities that aren't going to be continued being displaced. at least going to be very level appetite for large scale . you might have to read a foot to take place, and i do think this is really you, we need to come on board to force a humanitarian, colorado, so that food can be brought in because to be going to see stories in the next couple of days when people are,

i'm not going to have food to eat. and i think for me, ultimately it's the value humanitarian situation on the grounds that it's just going to become was and sold is all just going to continue picking up ons and countries will just sit back and allow a not good as all still unfolding right in front of my eyes, you can see when i listen to crystal at describing the diplomatic efforts. and we've also talked about all the different peacekeeping efforts that been going on. it seems very fragmented. that doesn't seem to be a coordinated regional international strategy. you have both the regional force and the u. n. force and go my only around you how to an east african force. you try to go see ations by and go live negotiations by can you doesn't, everyone's need to get on the same page. and this is it, in many ways the same problem that we have in, in terms of the response to another mind may try steam africa, so dom, a, me? yeah, very, very similar. and also just this idea of everybody walk is working separately. i

think actually my, my belief is that a lot of the pressure as happened in 2012 actually at least come from the international community outside of africa, particularly particularly the goes around the i'm putting pressure on that because so much of the, the patients in the economy outside to western powers, and the western pause could really happening. but now if you look at this moment way and a very strange moment to uh, to, to, to touch on that point that chris, to be there about the, the trump administration, which hasn't quite, isn't fully in place as far as far as the fast is concerned. they have, we have the executive state, but we haven't got the africa team fully in place yet. but it seems like i know from reporting that the, the, the, the companies 4 minutes that will say that last week trying to meet each people and no one wants a really available based on the real attendance were ones. is it doing the same thing?

reaching out to lobbyist and all trying to have some sort of say on how that they can work together on this. but really there's a lot of as a real, sort of back to me feel like through which a lot of this. so if the confusion is happening and the regional powers will deposit it on the confidence will try and work together, but it's not in the way nothing to waive the international forces. could probably force everyone to the same table. and that's kind of what's happening. yeah, there's a little bit of a, of a vacuum. it's nikki davis. when we look at those western countries that you can to just mentioned who he says need to put more pressure on rolanda. and they all, perhaps st. tough the woods. but they seem tool in some of these countries, they seem to have a soft spot for, for a while. i'm the speaking to diplomats, they, they, they've said to me in the past, regardless, stable it's efficient is relatively not corrupt. well,

of course the wind has done its been, uh, shell, hold to the uh, international branding. and to these great extent as affected the, the, we run the as being able to be portrayed international standing. and it is working not for them. but of course, we can see from the united nations security council meeting that was convened when any emergencies um, you know, sessions the law of a hush criticisms of the rollover one. the previous countries that have taken a more subtle approached to these issue of not come on the very strongly including the united kingdom, the united states, as we should very strong. do you know statements against that one? the yeah. okay, well let me, let me, let me think, let me pick it up points out with crystal because the french and i was speaking to the french ambassador in new york just a couple of days ago about this. they are now proposing a draft resolution to the un security council. different from pass that to the un,

pretty clear the pressure needs to be put on the wind. but when you speak to diplomats, the un security council guess which countries are the ones that don't want to name or wanda. we african countries, the you with the u. k and the e u at frost in particular have been fluids. they can and they said that they are really looking at aid. we've not seen sanctions, we've not seen travel bags, we've not seen anything of real impact actually being done on middle wanda. it's always stakes, but it never happens. we need to also criticize philly gigi to the i think firstly he, he's government, we know he's also has his own opposition in control. so he's not being able to actually to the entire kind of way, the members of parliament, the teacher behind the. and so what those are do think that's the change to be very

emotional and you know, the doesn't it can be stalled. so we've got the teen mediation and i think that needs to be some pretty shopping. put on the critics, you kid. and i think this this way southern africa and south africa in particular. have cool felix richard. katy too old. yes. because you're ultimately what ever you what james? this can only be solved one way through mediation teaching, regional and dislike to doing the like to get and around the table, teaching the mediators, kenya, and then go, let's really to get to the wanda and um, can shop around one table and solve african psychics influence being kinshasa has to be that has to, they have to turn the caps, clothes, and, and forced you to get into the tables. because i think ultimately he is at the moment, not being he's got, i meant this week and he is weak and receive. the emotive response is coming from

him. and i don't think that is helping because the one thing that to the one that he's on a seat and they very clear, in fact, cook me just saying that the statement today, again, completely dismissing subjects view that they had at the subject summit on friday and it can be simply dismissed so, but you can also just have a data that's completely dismissed of a very t regional body in africa, all of the steps that they think needs to be taken to bring about some piece. but the big issue for me is, belmont is now in the hands of him 23. dr. how are we gonna ensure that you know, not the gum? well, do you, do you get another party to actually the through mediation, get the into and you 3 out. what's actually going to happen now that i'm in 23. ease of your know, taking over control of go my how do they take the sticks back that the central

government didn't control again, regain control and i don't think those are some of the issues that i think we have not seen a clia road map or any indications how that is going to unfold. a sign to very much indeed, science you too. all guess today, nickel de mussman, de cristo, otis, and i'm going to, i think, ok, if you've joined us late, don't worry. you can always watch the program again on the ions without a 0. don't call me if you have thoughts or comments on today's discussions or suggestions on what we should discuss in the future. please post them on our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story. with just using x or handle is at asia inside story for me training space and on the team here, please stay safe and well, bye bye for now the a septic. and it's designed to inflame and defensive the way that the story is

being told. it's not right. and it's not accurate from social networks to legacy media. the listening post explosives, the post is behind the headlights pulled out. the

a number of palestinians killed in gauze that increases to 61000 tops to extend the ceasefire due to get underway. the hello. i'm down, jordan, this is out. is there a life from dell also coming up the today, the army easily getting the population out to thousands of people have been kicked out. israel is accused of trying to clear the janine refugee camp of palestinians by carrying out major tax plus. i'm gonna see a newman in panama,

where after meeting with us, secretary of state much more move your government will be allowing the united states to deport.