land upon discovering his unsuccessful how could be a gold mine but to benefits his community from the minerals beneath the land, he must navigate the age o tribal disputes. a buffet. witness golden light. on now to sierra us president donald trump is accusing south africa of human rights violations against its white farmers. he's count assistance that includes critical h, i v medication. but why is he targeting south africa and what role the south african bone a long must claim. this, this is inside story, the

hello welcome to the program. i'm adrian sent it to us president donald trump assigned an executive order. suspending direct assistance to south africa. he cited a law that allows the south african government to seize farmland and its genocide case against israel. at the international court of justice where his decision trumps or also directs the state department to help afrikaner has an ethnic group descended from european settlers through refugee programs. south african born 1000000000 advised that the trump little musk is also accusing the country of what he calls openly, racist, land ownership laws. the president several rum opposed to assess the facts on the ground. tell a different story. white south africans make up a little over 7 percent of the population, but they own 70 percent of all privately own farmland. so what's behind trump's move to go off to south africa? is humanitarian. they've been weaponized. we'll get to a guest in just a moment, but 1st, a report from joel evans and numerous friends have been covered before within hours

of taking office president donald trump signed an executive order, freezing over an aide. for 90 days. his pen stroke turned the lives of 8500000 ag patients who are receiving treat from that us a id funded clinics in south africa. upside down, we are concerned about the potential impact of the decision by the united states government to assess spend some of its funding for each of the n t b programs in african countries. previous us administrations that prioritized widespread free access to entry retroviral treatment in 2003 president george w bush established pep file. that's the presidents emergency plan. age release is considered one of the most successful 4 and 8 programs in history and is estimated to save more than 26000000 lives and 55 countries. high calvary logic. that is not

just h, i v funding. that's at the heart of the dispute between the us and south africa. trump also for those direct assistance to the country. so i think the controversial that allows the south african government to seize farmland in rec cases without compensation. and those that donald trump says is unfairly targeting white from its terrible things are happening in the terrible thing. horrible. diamond white south africans who are a small minority stella in the vast majority of farmland which has been a source of racial tensions for decades. a president rumble post says whose country is resilient and will not be bullied, pops has this resilience and decades of apartheid rule that underline south

africa's most recent moves on the international stage. in late 2023 south africa. lawrence, the case that the international court of justice accusing israel of genocide and gaza. the court concluded that it was plausible that as rose actions in gaza could amount to genocide and trump used the case to accuse south africa of taking an aggressive position towards the us and its allies, ro, joel evans, out to 0 to inside story the. so let's bring in a guess since today they're all joining us from south africa in johannesburg. it's mark, hey, what national and global health specialist in stolen bosh turn the a g. well, a specialist on constitutional prophecy. little i didn't cape town, metal meat for a political analyst and formed a member of parliament for the amc on the president, nelson mandela. welcome to you, will melanie? let's start with you. is humanitarian aid being with an i isd by the trump

administration? oh yes, clearly it is because, you know, we are a sovereign nation. we are a democratic nation and we have to ride shortly to determine some of our domestic policies. but what makes us even more troubling is the fact that it's concrete table based on voltage. and, and it's completely arbitrary, and there has been no expropriation of land in south africa since 1994. of course there was a large scale reformed expropriation from colonial times. and under a package there has been 0, compensate, and postal code, any form of expropriation or profit lined in south africa since 1994. and it would have been one of the most popular things for the end to government to have done more if they wanted to. but they didn't, they chose not to. so it is just completely an attorney falls and i'm sure some of the other kids will show it to today too, as well. it isn't completely in line with the constitution. there was no change in

the government's policy of keeping up with a willing by a willing solace. and it is also in line completely with the most democratic countries and the roost. is expropriation roles including that of america. i'm a u. k. and ireland and your opinion a so to use a, in such a crude arbitrary manner to apparently on each the south african government. but of course actually just punishing the purpose of the for is really, really the wrong thing to do. and he's talking you with an eisen premeditate, what's keep punishing south africa full. what, what, what's your suspicion here? what, what's the motivation behind this? well, i think 1st of all, what happened is that a very sole lights when a grouping install, that africa does change to be on the also for, for cons people. and can i just say i'll for cons and they certainly don't speak on my be off and, but that they have had your writing st. james in america. and then of course,

president trump is one of the 1st time things like this happened. it also happened under trump one and, and presumably that are pretty long. and, and they, so, you know, that's the 1st thing that i think happened. they pushing pushing their own agenda or whatever that might be. i think that's now that's probably a little bit because i've seen that this is not like working out the way they wanted it to. i mean, possibly they could be other things such as the i see the case was, you know, that's been rolled up a number of times and this is also a punishment pulled up. mark, what does the freezing of a mean for anyone dealing with the an h i v. positive. so states was in south africa, or indeed those suffering with a, it's well, most simply, it is a stretch to the life and health of tens of thousands of people living with h. i v in south africa, you know, 2 weeks ago, a whole range of organizations that have been receiving, stable funding from pitfall we received. let's was ordering an immediate cease to

work the day off to 15000 health care work cuz and then additional number of people who provide that administrative support stopped providing health care services up on the order of the us government because of the fund. those people were working in 27 high, but the high prevalence districts, those institutions provide critic critical research, critical training, critical monitoring, and critical infrastructure. and you know, so that for guys, the biggest i tried the epidemic in the world. 7.8000000 people. we've had a very successful h i v treatment response with that supports of the united states. i must say, we've managed to get nearly 6000000 people onto treatment, but know, providing perhaps one that was biggest

h i b a one of the walls because medical programs overall is always very fragile ways, very vulnerable. and this threatens to bring pots of its crushing down. so, as melanie said, this is what, but not using a few monetary, an aide ends hitting the most vulnerable, the most defense, less and is going to cause a lot of illness and suffering of a feeling. if you bounce a, by my next question boxes, which is, can south africa a continue to afford to treat those who are h, i v positive? could it, could it absorb the shock? does it need external funding? a spine actually it could possibly absorb the shock, which is very different from a neighboring countries, legs and bob later on, malawi. well, that's one who i was so dependent financially. yes. but as i tried to explain, you know, the health care workers who have been ordered to stop work,

i'm not replaceable, you know, you, you can, you can, you can, you can replace the money for medicines, but you can't replace the expertise the institutional memory, the understanding of the health care system and that's where we are going to pay a heavy price. you know, if i can just say i, i'm on the board of directors about an organization include the treatment action campaign, which was nominated for a nobel peace prize for its work on a try. the 20 years ago, the t i c has received substantial funding for clinic monitoring and to try to make sure that the quality of clinics is maintained to enable people to take that treatment regularly as we speak. now, the treatment action campaign is under an order which we received on friday to put a $140.00 stuff on immediate suspension to stop old programs and it is a threats to the life and the future of the, of the treatment action campaign. that's how multi dimensional and serious this

punitive, inexplicable measure is, let's bring it in terms of you then. thanks for your patience tunzia. why is this land expropriation act so controversial? important to remember the background of the act, right? it's obviously bead into place as a boat for the past 5 years though, but also trying to remember the fact that it's been into place in a different form of a bill from 2008. so it's being really contentious, but there's one main section that seems to be putting a lot of people in the sort of discomfort. and that's the section that relates to the compensation. right. and that section talks about the new compensation, the fact that you can expropriate with no compensation. and that seems to be put in a lot of people with discomfort because it talks about just and equitable compensation. and it also has no compensation under certain circumstances. it's

important to not listen to propaganda and to list those circumstances. one of those examples would be if the land is abandoned in the circumstances we would be looking at where people haven't paid rates, we just sold the rates for us on ends. or if it can be proven that the land has been abandoned, or if the land disposing some sort of risk, right? so they are not. we're not looking at farm land. in those cases, even though donald trump seems to be constantly talking about light and land owners in terms of farmland, that's not what we're looking at here. but yet, because it has been so much propaganda about these farm owners, this seems to be the main issue with the act at the moment being the compensation in this case. so let's get something straight. a time that is south africa confiscating land to quotes. president trump from sucking classes, which are treated very badly, he said the 02 main parts of the statement,

right? a south africa confiscating land. absolutely not. right. expropriation of land is not, can you neither in south africa no around the world. expropriation of that exists in america as well, and it happens very routine. b, like in the, in south africa, under the new act, then has not to be an expropriated gate, and suited me when we read the act, which i need to stressed as many people have not done in south africa. and i would be surprised if the donald trump, himself has actually bid the act because the act does not refer to race, right? it does not refer to specific race of land owners. it talks about the kind of property. there seems to be a sort of inference from people around the world talking about the fact people in south africa talking about the fact that it's referring to certain kinds of land

owners. it doesn't refer to base. so no south africa is not confiscating that there is a procedure that needs to take place. the procedure almost has 18 sorts of steps the test to step in practical. what has to measure the compensation that goes in? there are so many steps that goes in and it has to comply with the constitution. that is absolutely no all be true. the confiscation of land that is going on in expropriation is a very routine in every democratic state around the world to very normal. whether they are so you laughing when i was quitting, some president trump the yes because it is so upset. i mean, and i think also the africans we con, decide to resolve about it, or can we cry about it if it wasn't for the rest of the military and effects that it's having, it's actually lawful because of anything. this other african government has been bending backwards to make sure that there is no discrimination based on race since

1994. and today, if you look at this country, still disproportionately white's and also that includes african speaking, what have to benefit from the reading. and so the intergenerational benefits that they can re, um, from above take those, they are still it proportionately from african afterwards. and the majority of, of black, silver africans, sage black south africans still hasn't been the burden of not any pharmacy, but also violence of bad health. care, etc, if there are certain classes in this country, which is treated badly, it is certainly not the wife's quite the opposite. and, and it's, you know, it is, it is with, like i said in the beginning, just completely based on, on photos and also you know, about formatting. and i also am glad that the, the previous speaker was, are corrected. the fact that this is not about phone and it's, you know, i have both, my families come from farming background, skip this act does not have

a phone. and in fact, the government is follow a show of urban inferior urban man. so to create this impression that the world wide farmers are now being attacked by government is just why it's in general is just not correct ability. i'll be back with you in just a 2nd. let's just put a break away to, to, to read you a tweet. that on wednesday, us secretary of state, marco rubio posted on x, saying that he would have 10 to g 20 summit to drive his book. he wrote south africa is doing very bad things. expropriating private property using g 20 to promote solidarity equality and sustainability. and other was d, i and climate change. my job is to advance america's national interests, not waste tax pay on money, or cuddle anti americanism. what do you make of that relations between south african, the u. s. has been to, to a rating for, for, for quite some time. if this, if this didn't stop under the but the trump administration is that in may 2023. the

us side by side of the south africa accused the country of supplying weapons to russia for its war against ukraine through a cargo ship. the doctor, a naval base near near cape town. this has been going on for some time, has net. yes it has. and i don't think it is so that if it goes to values, relationships with america, it's not that. so the guys, you know, they are major trading partners are partners. oh, so it is important for us to keep relationships. but i think what needs to be very cautious and when it, when it becomes quite a power and sets everything around the foreign policy to comes transactions from one party, an adult person and said, where they then becomes the, where you say it's a very distinct possibility. but there's, it's just being bullied in, in a certain direction. and so therefore, guns as most americans very sensitive about the idea of being us too big, full, full aid. and i, and i think this has been something that has been bugging south africa the lot. and

yes, you are right that the previous and passages accusations which according to our governments research and it's deep investigation since it was not true cost a lot of damage because it also caused a lot of economic damage to our country within a couple of days. so yes, relationships are not being that strong, but i think so africans talking to, to both of those relationships, bus driver position of strength, not from a position of weakness. and uh, you know, like i said, having to go to the, in the sense of being, you know, wanting to bank, they wish the american government for a to know what are we to buy, cuz they don't bucks claims that only 10 percent of foreign assistance dollars actually reach the reaches the communities that are intended to help the implication being but the remaining 90 percent is diverted, stolen or wasted? it sounds from what you were saying earlier. every penny of the money that south africa gets from the us is being spent incredibly wisely. yeah, i mean,

i don't know where the loan must get his fax so cool. thanks strong because they are totally wrong and statements like that's frankly, that's a nonsense and he should be but prove them. um, i can say, you know, with the h i v program that that money is very well spent and that it does save lives and it plays an absolutely critical role in our health care system because you know, so that for co, as with many developing countries have a much higher but in the disease than many developed countries, you know, pop from h i v with dealing with malaria, we're dealing with to bucket losses. we're dealing with more rare and neglected diseases. we've got academics of non communicable diseases like cancer like diabetes. so we really are in

a well wind. so this type of global support from the united states and from other countries really helps. and it helps as well at the time when our country is financially constrained, all our house budgets cannot meet the demands of people and health is a global issue. as we've seen with cobit 19, actually it's in the united states interest to support disease prevention and disease treatment all over the world because in the 21st century, disease no longer stakes within national boundaries. so this type of approach ultimately, and also needs it based on lies in this information, but it will prove to be self defeating of the american people as well. and that that will be an opposite tragedy. what and what kind of impact will and you, you've outlined how it's going to go to affect people in, in south africa. what, what kind of impacts will the cutting of aid have upon people throughout,

throughout the region. but it will be devastating. people are already going to clinics and they are no longer able to get the treatment that they know that the medicines are no longer being purchased. it strengthens a very, very serious set back in the a try the academic, you know, we have been gradually, gradually gaining control over h. i the globally for the last 20 years. this comes perhaps as the biggest threats . and remember, you know, we, we've been focused on cobit 19 and other threats, but the h, i, b and demick has not gone away. h, i, b has not seized and it's very, very lens. it does not seize, then it's infective. it see if people stop taking on to retroviral treatment, then they become more infectious because one of the benefits of energy retroviral treatment, which is paying for in many countries by the pitfall pet file program, is it reduces what's called viral load or infective,

a t. so treatment that has of prevention benefits, it has a containing benefits on the a try the epidemic. and again, you know, in an era of pandemic threats, one of the things the world does not want to have to deal with is a research and h i v epidemic. and super close insipid that make that goes, goes with it. so it is just so tragic and so stupid to take measures like, like, like this it's, it's home is enormous. somebody, let's go back to this issue of the, of the land. expropriation, why is land ownership still is such a contentious issues 30 years off to the end of the policies. that's because of something you've mentioned earlier when we started, which is the fact that basically there hasn't been much of a dent in land ownership brought if they must be skewed towards the wide population at the moment. so obviously in 1994, when a positive ended, there was

a higher level of land ownership with the white population and not so much so with the black population. and that's including with the indian relation and colored population. as time went on, the indian population has managed to kind of a little bit higher over the, a social cost extra lawns and manage through the financial market to be able to buy more land, but not so much. so with the colored population and the black population, dr. unfortunately, land reform has failed. it has been way too, so and the same can be said about the housing program. and it has been left with black people having defend their way through the private so. so the part of the mach housing market, they have been having to buy their way to the market, and that's been absolutely impossible with the rates of inflation. and with the saving housing market, it has absolutely been even possible for them to be able to make it so full. and what has happened is the fact that now we are absolutely left with in full

settlements, and i rate, so they're no longer patient. which then means that we have absolutely millions of people who are lenses in south africa. so what this means is that we have very high rates of land ownership amongst a small white population, right, and highlighted. so glen, listening amongst the black population and the failing laundry full program. so obviously it's allowed to choose a very contentious install of africa and would even we have something as minor as water tools. and then expropriation active seeks to make a minor dent, and none of those metric is called a so much of people that we have right wing groups going to other countries to try and close some a peebles in this side of africa. it obviously is causes even more attention, right. it's some sort of contention in the psyche of south africa that we can absolutely not detached from the person melody. let's come back to south african

bone, a loan mosque. i think we, we, we will, we will have the suspicion that perhaps president trump is being influenced by find mosque out of people. the in south africa feel about him and his motivations. before i get to 9 months, maybe just 2 points. the one is, of course, that it is so important for us to deal with all land issue because if we don't, we so what happened is about that. and so it is really, really important to us all african for this deficiency of south africa. and also the region deals with its lives issues in a job straight away, which will continue to do, but it has to deal with it because be like some of the way it was dictates off to democracy. i'm still a house is always in charge of land and the ends author of the privileged minority groups. and secondly, i just also want to say, even though k 4 makes out the majority of funding in south africa, it's also going to note that there are other funding of $65.00 days, for example, wildlife crime funding has been cancelled from now as part of the package and,

and that is a very big program for us is wanting to fix the whole region equally so. so funding changes have been costs. and then also we've seen a very rapid decline in philanthropy funding, which is not through the state, but following the 9. 0, you know, that sort of same straight as the government around, you know, mass quote. i think so. the africans. oh, it's hard to say what sort of africans in general think there are definitely some people in i came of course i'm but they are such a huge amounts of africans. and i think that is growing dramatic to you since the weekend. um, who really do not appreciate it. um, what are you saying about so that i forget what he is um, what is, what is the now closing southern africa? i mean he had listings of african for a very long time. the fact that his grandparents cancel coming to them apparently, you know, to dubious political, it is a problem. and so, so never comes on. you can knock a final and say, hey, what global platform. okay, you're on. i'll just say we're right now,

what is your message to the trump administration and the people of the us who think that somehow company aid like this is a good idea. my message is simple. again, it is receiving this executive order in co tablets. he immediately resumed funding to south africa and 2 of the developing countries resuming funding to the world health organization which place an absolutely critical coordinating role within the world and my message to the people of america. if the president chooses not to listen to us is use every means within your democratic power for false change because we all one weld. our pain will become your pain before too long. we depend upon your solidarity and support as countries that have been historically disadvantage,

and we stand with you in all of your efforts to restore genuine democracy, to the united states of, of america, of the we must end to manufacture. indeed, not caywood's, tabio, g. well, and then on the forward thanks for watching the continue the program again at any time by going to the websites at all, just 0 dot com for further discussion. join us on our facebook page. you'll find that at facebook dot com forward slash ha inside story out. of course you can join the conversation on x a handle that is at a j inside story from me, adrian sitting on the team here in the still watching. we'll see you again. bye for now, the for us is always of interest to people around the world. this has been going on for

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h it became theory is here, the be students, natalia, the timeless journey. the hello on sort of hired us in the top stories on al jazeera, you as president donald trump has once again been commenting on the situation in garza. and the last few hours he suggested cancelling the ceasefire on saturday. if all of these ready counts is on reduced is that's israel's decision. but as far as i'm concerned, if all of the stages are returned by saturday at 12 o'clock, i think it's.