the thing for support from far and wide, which are the signs back home. it's more than just a football club. anyone who says policy should be left out for football and you know, doesn't know about football, isn't about politics. and this is the stuff on the passion and the politics of the little pool, etc. the defiance joins part of the funds. who make football series on house. you see around the french president has described the artificial intelligence summit in paris as a wake up call. you searching, you're up to get more competitive in the field dominated by the us in china. so is this the beginning of a golden age of innovation or technology will of a new cost? this is inside store, the

hello can only james bays and the global a i o mas raise, the stakes couldn't be high up. the power summit is drawing nearly a 100 world leaders and representatives of tech firms with the consensus the 2025 is not the new a i regulations from says it's time to simplify the rules in europe to allow advances. so risk being left behind in january, the chinese stone top deep seek, disrupted wall street and silicon valley stokes published when it launched a cheaper and more efficient chat model to rival american competitors such as chat g p t. so who's winning the a, i will, or all the battle lines just being drawn, we'll get to, i guess, in a moment. the 1st this report from joe levins, tech executives, entrepreneurs, and world leaders are in paris for an international summit on artificial intelligence. it pains to lay the groundwork for governing the rapidly advancing technology which has almost limitless power. we have still in the early days that i

already believe a, i will be the most profound shift of our lifetimes. competition is fierce and global powers of racing to play leading roles. us president donald trump has and filed a half a trillion dollar a infrastructure plant. well, a little mosque is made a bit to buy open. a gallery larger an offer was declined. so in french president emanuel maxima has code for the removal of red tape and announced a $100000000.00 investment in the industry. and just last month, as tech executives attended donald trump's and no duration. the chinese thoughts out released a new version of it's a chat model. it's result succeeded. the of us arrivals delivering them at a fraction of the cost and processing power. the release of deep seek a i from a chinese company should be

a wake up call for our industries that we need to be laser focused on competing to n, cuz we have to greater side just and the world in china is being integrated into school curriculums. to ensure future generations can take advantage of the opportunities to technology offers fucking powers, military experts have debated as battlefield applications. you have uh well games. do you remember where the whereabouts we go to the computer? you have a all the, i did the, the tell me that's our series while the computers set up a, a war and nuclear war. so yes, it could happen as a eyes, on least on the menu, demanding regulations. others want assurances, the technology will use to sell bigger problems, such as climate change. joel evans, how does it or say inside stores the the, let's discuss this further now by bringing in today's guest and from washington dc

with joined by jody westby. the chief executive of global cyber risk of technology and advisory firm that provides cyber security services. in sydney, toby walsh, the chief scientist at the institute at the university of new south wells and sydney. i'm in geneva, adrian monk, a former managing director for the world economic forum, and now specialist in artificial intelligence and technology. he started his career as a journalist, full disclosure. he's a former colleague of mine, frank, to all of you for joining us here on inside story, jody. if i could start with you, we'll get to the summit in paris in a moment. but let's just talk about the big picture where we are on a i is what's really going on a bottle of supremacy between countries and also between companies. and thank you for having me. yes, most definitely is a race. the united states is in a race with china to dominate

a excel be the global leader. and it's comparable to the space race from way back when we very much are in a dead heat race with china. and that is driving a lot of the issues globally, adrian compassion that with the space race, how. ready revolutionary, disruptive transformative could a be, i mean, are we talking about the arrival of the internet, or perhaps even the, the industrial revolution? i think, to be pretty revolutionary, but you've got to remember the revolutions done. always happen to have annoyed we got the email, we got what pricing were your excel spreadsheets. we've had a soft line navigation, but you know, month and cab drivers are still driving around with all of that and only stored in their heads. so these things take time to come through. i think to the point my age

is, it's important to know that this revolutions also going to involve other people and not just the us and showing up, you know, there's, you're quite as someone's being held as the middle east. and there's all the children that he's which would like to have a site in this resolution at a pa and, and so i think is quite important that we look at this as a us charter issue. we look at this is a global issue. the needs of the country is not simply united states in china type . kimberly totally, and you agree with that is, is this a 2 holes race? so all the other, a realistic competitors in it. and donald trump has talked about the us becoming the will capital of artificial intelligence. i mean, do you think he has got a chance of achieving that for us in china? are in many respects leading the race at the moment the, the race isn't pover. and there's always the possibility that the towards the school to catch up with the hair. and we started seeing i would join to join or was destiny cool. it's out of everything is still to play for and that's,

that's what surprises me. i expect for he is working off intelligence is though the rates of progress, we've obviously the same as with any other technology. a $1000000000.00 is being spent all day i every day. that's 20 percent of the worlds are the budget on one second. all of that is pretty unique. we have never said that scale of investment being one single technology, but he's feeling the rapid progress. the fact that every day use meet multiple stores in the newspaper got new advances, bidding make made in a lie because the sky and the bird right is just so impressive. trinity, adrian told us not just to think about the us in china, but i do want to stay with those 2 for now. and the do seem to be between the us and china and the companies involved. notably open a i in addition, one that surprised everyone at the end of last month, deep seek, very different approaches. can you explain how the models of these to the way they

look is different? one is very dependent on the huge investment, huge energy resources as well. right? the u. s. has put a huge investment in to artificial intelligence, but it's also placed export controls around it for critical areas for chips for cloud access and certain uh, weight, uh, waiting on models. but it is very much um uh the control of resources to develop this. this is a key issue because after china came out with deep sick that they developed very inexpensively and that can operate much less expensively then chat g b t in the us. then open a guy who has chat g b, a accused deep sake of copying some of his flags language models. and if that's the case,

then i think we'll see more export controls. and we may see export controls on these large language model databases which primarily reside in the us that could have a global impact on the deployment of a globally, as well as research and development around the world. adrian, i mean the deep seek is, is, as we've heard that from jodi very different and doesn't require the same costs. that's uh the, the us models to is that one of the reasons that you think that all the countries come now compete when perhaps it was thoughts a few months ago that really the us had this whole setting up. yeah, i think the very interesting moment in the technology development has to be said, you know, this is a place where all the world's investment shifts being put down right now. and so that money brings with a lot of anticipated sion i brings with it a lot of change. but, but one of the changes and brings with it is innovation. and if you look at,

for example, we also have an industry in the 19 fifties and sixties us cause a very different from european cost. they were designed around a gas culture with gas was cheap. and you could have huge cadillacs, wonderful looking vehicles that kind of sold for americans. a lot of ways in europe, you have these tiny feeds. we don't use running around. we could be seeing something very similar in a light developing way. you have a kind of swing french culture. so i think there's lots of play for want. of course we haven't even mentioned india, which is where you have a huge number of very small educational establishment and researches. so there's quite a bit of stuff in a well, that isn't so not right now, and i think we should be quite excited by the prospect. so that having this technology in many, many places, which is one of the reasons why we need to think about a glow. ready gold uh, no solution, but it kind of global coleman's in the way we think about this technology and then the real cost with funds one of the co host of the summit,

this being taking place in paris, toby, before i get to the summit, there's another bit of a news which is quite significant and this involves a little mosque making, a bid for that leading us company can load some of it. it operates as a non profit, open a i, and it's exposed. but i think many, many in the industry knew the big, bad blood between a little mosque and sam, open the head of open a given the annuity of what's stage. we've had these 2 rallying and, and sharing spend some social media this and it will seem a bit patsy. it does, it does spin it, there's nothing stopping billionaire as being passed. as you say, there's very bad blood between time of money on most of the play. now i don't think the mosque was really seriously tried to buy, but i, i think actually is a 3 dimensional chess guy. but he's playing, he's actually got a lawsuit against over that to try and get open. i, i to be open

a not for profit as it was intended when he was one of the founders. and this is a way of valuing po for the i. so that it couldn't just be transist transits into a for profit. okay, jody, let's go to paris and talk about the summit itself. 1500 guess in the french capital and the magnificent crump pele in the centre of paris. what does the summit like this achieve? what could it possibly achieve throughout the southern and parents as opposed to achieve an agreement to deregulate on a i a, provide a smoother, easier business environment in europe for the development of artificial intelligence technologies. and so this is going to be the, is the talk there, but i think is going to be very difficult to achieve. i think they'll be

a lot of talk and very little walk because the european union has already enacted the most comprehensive, broad, overarching law on, on the use in deployment of artificial intelligence of any area in the world. and so it's going to be hard to unravel that has been adopted in some parts of it have already gone into effect. so there's a lot of talk about making it easier at to do business with a i in europe, but to face that they excel in developing regulation. and so it's, i think there's an idea of it's in, in conflict with what were the reality is in the european union, the agent, i looked up, the 5 main themes, public interest, a future of work, innovation and culture trust in i, and global i government. so now if you go back to 2023, the 1st one of these international a i summit. so it was held in the u. k. in blatchley paul comment. remember the time people were briefing on the idea that we needed to have proper international

oversight. over a i, the suggestion was perhaps you use the model of nuclear power where you have the international atomic energy agency, or the i a e, a, a, perhaps you have a, i, a, i, a, and that sort of thing seems now completely that the newest to designate i think it is, i think it's a fact that it's down to the law museum, the number 5 see one actually very close to some of the technological conferences with spreading about the technology. but i'm one of the things you mentioned there on that day is that is not on the agenda and really these economic growth. because if you think about it for us, for the economic growth we see in the past 25 years has come from the technology sector. you know, that's the difference when you look at the growth rates between europe and the us. the missing piece for europe is technology and in a site that's what we talking about now in terms of regulation is, can you develop

a technology cycle kind of develop a proper place in the sun if you're not with this new technology? and obviously it's not just you or is places like in the us, you know, this is the next phase of industrialization, which is one places on the middle east for investing so heavily in education, and also in some of the infrastructure needed. and to a lot of people out of that is going to be very, very difficult. i think that's one of the places where we're going to have to have the conversation where a manual man from say it's a weight cut cool is also on it is a way to talk. ready because it's about economic growth, and if we don't see the economic growth spreading out beyond the us to the rest of the world, then we're going to have a very rocky few years to come to already on the idea of global governance of a. i mean, do you think there is a role for that in any way, but certainly, i don't think donald trump would america 1st doesn't actually that that philosophy doesn't seem to really match with global consensus in any way. and of course,

international diplomacy works. so the glacial speed is, as we've discussed, hey, i is developing at such a very, very fast, right? yes. well i, i think is, i'm likely we're going to see any governance, global guide governance agreement anytime soon. as you know, i, i work in the area of cyber security as well, and it's taking us decades to try to advance global approaches to combating cyber crime. so in the, in the cooperation and an investment levels and, and since synergy that would be needed for a global governance framework. i think we're a long ways away. the good news is people are talking about that and, and as it's been pointed out as developing so rapidly that it may push diplomats to act faster than, than they have in the past. and to achieve some sort of agreement. and, and, and i think my colleagues right to, to bring up india because uh, india,

as always is the world's largest democracy. it's always been a pool, a very rich talent. and so we'll see what happens. but the go global governance is or a topic that will remain on the stage. i just don't think it will be achieved in the near term. toby monochrome when he spoke seems to accept the red tape needs to be taught, but you weren't solely put lots of red tape in place. and it's interesting the example that he gave what he talked about to be coming competitive he says, will simplify. think somebody gave baby, i'm thinking that on file, but was the painstaking rebuilding of a 160 year old gothic cathedral? i'm not sure, tom, i mean, is that a good example of have a turbocharged a i want to, i mean, to give the french credit and they have done a marvelous job at re rebuilding dr. down off to that rebuilding something i suspect is just for most the basement to say rebuilding something

ai is being invented as we speak. it's not being rebuilt indeed. and either the time was very much set on the 1st day of, of trumps a 2nd time or present the side an executive order. one of the 1st executive orders that he signed, which was to undo all of the regulation that bite and reported on i. and that really has set the tone for the difference. we had the vice president bonds took about, you know, accelerating tub by charging that that's what we can expect. so i suspect for the us moving fords and the year. yes, definitely. it has the very 1st regulation. it's hard to see them on doing that very quickly. so it really has puts the castle lots of pictures. how is your guy to keep ahead, paul, taking his race when they all, you know, regulate the guy on both both sides and then west. anywhere else. adrian, you will that in europe in geneva, but not in the you do you think the

e u was wrong to have gone so fast into regulation of a i the e u. a i act certainly met so which is the own of facebook, instagram and whatsapp. that chief level affairs officer, jo copland has said that rules and now unworkable and it's pushing you up to the sidelines. i think you have to 2 different strategies when it comes to your on the 1st place, they have to protect the marketplace. they have on the 2nd point, they have to build their own capacity and they have been very good at the 2nd one. they've been very good at this to us and the 1st one has it has gotten into way of some of those big technology companies. and actually, that might not be a bad thing, as we've seen, for example, facebook mentors, legal, thousands of employees that i know to you, or because actually your has protections in place for those employees. so there is something besides having rules and regulations and protections for people. but i think if you look at what yours doing to build capacity, you have to look at things like the chance which is nice trials at the chapel just

using that is all the news. and that's quite an interesting new development in the world of airlines. it's almost a goal, a written major announcement regarding a data center coming up in by just like for know to be followed by french nuclear power. so it has both things going for it. what it struggles with is the find a, this is a frame summit in europe, and europe is a single market on the 20 plus countries that full needs to be acting together in concepts to develop this new technology. and that's what we don't see and you are right now, and that's where you were nice to get his act together. jody does your not have some legitimate concerns. matt crawl, for example, was playing the green card, saying that donald trump keeps talking drill, baby drill. it's plug, baby plucky says a nuclear power is available in france. i'm not going to have the same damaging effect on the environment. the oh, well,

they environment is the environment and that's topics also going to stay on the table for quite a while but, but i think when it is it, we're in, we're absolutely talking about the key points here. the us is going to continue to push for an open, unregulated environment. 8 on most loves that and hates regulation. trump the same. i think we'll see a lot less regulation. but the export controls were not waved by, by a, by trump biden's export controls with a, i have remained in place, they may be review, but they remain in place. so i think we're looking at a situation where europe is talking and it sees what it needs to do. i think the reality is, is going to be hard to do it. my colleague mentioned the labor leaders there in europe. they have some of the toughest labor laws in the world. it will be hard to

have a dynamic environment. yours also doesn't have the risk of funding the venture capital funding. would that a willing to, to risk money like the us does. all of those factors are very important for driving innovation, so this will stay on the, on the table environment will stay there. but the us, i think you're going to say is going to clear a lot of that out of the way very rapidly. and the investment is huge, so i think you're going to see some significant advancements just because of the effort being put into it. to tell you about some dangers and getting rid of all the red tape means getting rid of all the god rails. i'll give you one obvious example that i have one raises, which is the middle of the tree sphere. things autonomous when i put in this robot was on maybe on venturing into the realms of side 5. but an a i that may 1 day decided doesn't want to serve humans and perhaps one that's why we need humans anymore. i mean, all the legitimate concerns that or is this just scam hungry?

there are very little, there's the director concerned the data i have spoken of united nations, half a dozen times, all these very conserves. and you only have to see video coming back from ukraine and other conflicts, items around the world to see how also fish intelligence, autonomous drones, decision support systems in israel, transforming the way that we go about war. and that is, know we have consequences and we do have to worry that it may make offer more terrible thing and how we, how we regulate that. he's going to be very important. so he is the real concerns to be had. it's the problem that i always do use technology. it can be used for post events, the very same thing will just be so negative ends. how do we ensure that we get the good we get the growth, we get the economic benefits of off intelligence. we spread those benefits around and we minimize the risks. how do you h in push it to the,

to the areas not yet to the areas that are doing good for mountain calling, for example, medical research, curing cancer potentially. and i think that research is going on right now. i mean, the university i work with has a leading role in the field precisely because it wants to apply those kinds of technologies to really cutting edge issues. i mean, it's trying to solve the problem of biology using all $600.00 is building on models that can actually interrogate proteins and r and a to get to the extent that you can actually have a kind of a biology model that will work to be sold a lot of the issues of medicine, pharmacology and other kind of disciplines have really struggle with. so this is very exciting and these are the kind of things which really will deliver the kind of revolution. we change the people. imagine a lie to bring into people's lives. but i also thing to toby's point, the, you know, look at the military useful. look at the diplomatic use. look at the way you can

use a light to come up with waiting, waiting solutions that you can come up with complicated, you know, negotiations that can actually deliver good results to numerous policies. and ways of previously, game theory would never have allowed us to kind of even contemplate, so all of these technologies happen possibilities we use the very good ends and very important ends. no, just for the kind of knowing mass scenarios as science fiction noises. jody. i mean, as we said, india was one of the co hosts of the powers summit. and one of the things that the, the indians wanted was a specific focus on the needs of the global south. and i think there's a concern here that in, in the past with new technologies, but it hasn't helped the poorest neediest on the planet. it's not a consent. it won't be in the us in the us is going to focus on the us and it, and the goal for a dominance will drive any other concerns. and you can see that trump

administration doesn't care about or are developing or less or develop countries in the fact of their dismantling of us say id. so that's unfortunate, but i don't see a i as something that's going to drive economies in developing countries any time in the near future. you'll, you'll view on that toby, do you see that this could be an engine of the global inequality rather than so it will help lots and lots of people in the ritual, but not necessarily help people in poor countries. it is an absolute risk in something we have to worry that we know we have one waiver colonization way. we can revise the, the physical well and we might be now doing the same with the digital assets. the to the west will come in the game with its digital a supremacy and, and take over. and those economy is in this, in the global south,

will be less further behind. and that will again amplify the tensions that we see with the what was easy about reducing our own interest to ensure that everyone benefits from this technology. i do why res, significantly does keep the apple night. they might as well be left behind, different or careful. adrian. yep. during this discussion you've been pretty bullish. i think about a i tell me what are your biggest concerns about a uh what, where are you most worried about what could go wrong? well, i'm, you know, i just want to pick up with the point if i could about the global sales and the concern that you would have a few like a lot of people at all. and i actually think what we could see is places like you can, the places like tenure where you go emerging technology house actually using very cheap i technology to actually 10 shop for you to leave. but my thing, that's one of the things where we really need to, you know, take the gloves off and take off the link is all about, hey, all i know, think of

a nice apocalyptic terms. is something that is going to absolutely destroy economies and destroy life. it's got a potential to lift a lot of people out if we left it. and if we let it help us. thank you very much indeed to all 3 of you all guess today. but jody westby, toby walsh, and adrian monk, remember this program comes to you every day of the year on television, on the phone app, as opposed costs, and it's on our website, which is 0 adult calm. we want to hear from you use our facebook page, that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story, or find this on x, where we are at asia inside story from the james page of the team here though, please stay safe and well bye for now. the if you really want to find out how effective a wallace, just ask israel from the technical in the us mexico border is riley made so violence towels to tear gas dropping drones and india on to the lowest 9,

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