stein, traverse the globe to shed light on this really exports with the 1st test to dump out a studio is rally filling model of way to separate and control on ones that populations the palestine. the bar 3 parts to adjust the to the french president has described the artificial intelligence so much in power as, as a wake up cold. he's the only thing you're up to get more competitive in a field dominated by the us in china. so is this the beginning of a golden age of innovation or technology will of a new cost? this is inside store, the hello can only james bays and the global a i of us raise. the stakes couldn't be high up. the power summit is drawing nearly

a 100 world leaders and a representative of tech firms with the consensus that 2025 is not the new a regulations from says it's time to simplify the rules in europe to allow advances are risk being left behind. in january, the chinese stone top deep seek, disrupted wall street and silicon valley stokes contest. when it launched a cheaper and more efficient chat model arrival american competitors such as chat g p t. so who's winning the a, i will, or all the battle lines just being drawn, we'll get to, i guess, in a moment. the 1st this report from joe levins, tech executives, entrepreneurs, and world leaders are in paris for an international summit on artificial intelligence. it aims to lay the groundwork for governing the rapidly advancing technology which has almost limitless power. we have still in the early days that i already believe a, i will be the most profound shift of our lifetimes. the competition is fierce and

global powers erasing to play leading gross us president donald trump has been filed a half a trillion dollar infrastructure plan. well, a little mosque is made a bit to by open a i hi gallery logic. an offer was declined. so it french president emanuel maxima, has code for the removal of red tape and announced a $100000000000.00 investment in the industry. and just last month, as tech executives attended donald trump's integration, the chinese starts out released a new version of it, a chat model. it's result succeeded. the of us arrivals delivering them at a fraction of the cost and processing power. the release of deep seek a i from a chinese company should be a wake up call for our industries that we need to be laser focused on competing to n, cuz we have the greater side just in the world in china, hey,

i is being integrated into school curriculums to ensure future generations can take advantage of the opportunities to technology offers fucking powers, military experts at debated as battlefield applications of uh well gains. do you remember where the, where routes we go to the computer. you have a all the, i did the, the tell me that the or series while the computers, uh set up a war and that was so yes, uh it could happen as a, uh, is on least on the well, many demanding regulations. others want assurances, the technology will use to sell bigger problems, such as climate change. jo evans orders are set inside stored the and let's discuss this the now by bringing in today's guest and from washington dc with joined by j. busy d westby, the chief executive of global cyber risk of technology and advisory firm that provides cyber security services. in sydney, toby walsh,

the chief scientist at the institute at the university of new south wells in sydney . and in geneva, adrian monk, a former managing director for the world economic forum, and now specialist in artificial intelligence and technology. he started his career as a journalist, full disclosure. he's a former colleague of mine, frankie, all of you for joining us here on inside story, jody. if i could start with you, we'll get to the summit in paris in a moment. but let's just talk about the big picture where we are on a i is what's really going on a bottle of supremacy between countries and also between companies. and thank you for having me. yes, most definitely is a race. the united states is in a race with china to dominate a excel be the global leader. and it's comparable to this based race from way

back when we very much are in a dead heat race with china. and that is driving a lot of the issues globally. adrian compassion, that with the space race, how revolutionary, disruptive transformative could a, i, b, i mean, are we talking about the arrival of the internet, or perhaps even the, the industrial revolution? i think to be pretty revolutionary, but you've got to remember the revolutions doesn't always happen to have annoyed we got the e mail, we got word processing or your excel spreadsheets. we've had a satellite navigation, but you know, month and cab drivers are still driving around with all of that and only stored in that head. so these things take time to come through. i think to the point my age is, it's important to know that this revolution is also going to involve other people and not just the us and showing up, you know, there's, you're quite as someone's being held as the middle east and the other children that

he's which would like to have a site in this resolution at a, pa, and so i think is quite important that we look at this as a us charter issue. we look at this is a global issue. the needs of the countries north of the united states in china, taking the lead totally. and you agree with that is, is this a 2 holes race? so all the other, a realistic competitors in it. and donald trump has talked about the us becoming the will capital of artificial intelligence. i mean, do you think he has got a chance of achieving that? us in china are in many respects leading the race at the moment the, the race isn't over. and there's always the possibility that the towards the school to catch up with the hair. and we started seeing that with join a joiner was definitely coats out of everything is still to play for that. so that's what surprises me. i've spent 40 years working off of intelligence. he's though the rates of progress we. we never said see this with any other technology.

a $1000000000.00 is being spent all day i every day. that's 20 percent of the worlds are the budget on one second, knology that is pretty unique. we have never said that scale of investment being one single technology, but he's feeling the rapid progress, the fact that every day used to be multiple stores of a newspaper. but new advances being made made in i because the state and the good right is just so impressive. jody. um, adrian told us not just to think about the us in china, but i do want to stay with those 2. for now, i'm the do seem to be between the us and china and the companies involved. notably open a i in addition, one that surprised everyone at the end of last month, deep seek very different approaches. can you explain how the models of these to the way they look is different? one is very dependent on huge investment, huge energy resources as well. right?

the u. s. has put a huge investment in to artificial intelligence, but it's also placed export controls around it. for critical areas for chips for cloud access and certain weight, uh, waiting on models. but it is very much um uh, the control of resources to develop this. this is a key issue because after china came out was deep sick that they developed very inexpensively and that can operate much less expensively then chat g b in the us. then open a guy who has chat, g b, k, accused dave sake of copying some of his flags language models. and if that's the case, then i think we'll see more export controls. and we may see export controls on these large language model databases which primarily reside in the us that could have a global impact on the deployment of a i, globally,

as well as research and development around the world. adrian, i mean the deep seek is, is, as we've heard that from jodi very different and doesn't require the same costs. that's uh that the us models to is that one of the reasons that you think that all the countries come now compete when perhaps it was thoughts a few months ago that really the us had this whole so not. yeah, i think the very interesting moment in the technology development has to be said, you know, this is a place where all the world's investment shifts being put down right now. and so that money brings with a lot of anticipating i brings with it a lot of change. but the one of the changes and brings with it is innovation. and if you look, for example, we also have an industry in the 19 fifties and sixties us cause a very different from european cost. they were designed around a gas culture with gas was cheap. and you could have huge cadillacs,

wonderful looking vehicles that kind of sold for americans. a lot of ways in europe . you have these tiny feeds, vw use running around. we could be seeing something very similar in developing what you have a kind of tweeting french culture. so i think there's a lot to play for want of course we haven't even mentioned india, which is where you have a huge number of very small educational establishment and researches. so there's quite a bit of stuff in the world that isn't so not right now. and i think we should be quite excited by the prospect so that having this technology in many, many places, which is one of the reasons why we need to think about a global uh no solution. but it kind of global coleman's in the way we think about this technology and in the low cost with funds, one of the co host of the summit that's been taking place in paris, toby, before i get to the summit, there's another bit of a news which is quite significant and this involves a little mosque making

a bid for that leading us company can, although some of it operates as a non profit, open a i and it's exposed. but i think many, many in the industry knew the big, bad blood between a little mosque. and sam open the head of open a, given the a know what see of what's stake. we've had these 2 rallying and, and sharing spend some social media this and it will seem a bit patsy. and it does spin it. there's nothing stopping billionaire as being passed, as you say it is very bad blood between some of my need on most of the planning out . i don't think the mosque was really seriously trying to buy open. i, i think actually is a 3 dimensional chess game that he's playing. he's actually got a lawsuit against over. they are to try and get over the i to be open and not for profit as it was intended when he was one of the founders. and this is a way of valuing hope for the i so that it couldn't just be transist transits into

a for profit. okay, jody, let's go to paris and talk about the summit itself. 1500 guess in the french capital and the magnificent crump pele in the centre of paris. what does the summit like this achieve? what could it possibly achieve throughout the 7 in paris as opposed to achieve an agreement to deregulate on a i a provide a smoother, easier business environment in europe for the development of artificial intelligence technologies. and so this is going to be the, is the talk there, but i think is going to be very difficult to achieve. i think they'll be a lot of talk and very little walk because the european union has already enacted the most comprehensive, broad, overarching law on,

on the use and deployment of artificial intelligence of any area in the world. and so it's going to be hard to unravel that has been adopted in some parts of it have already gone into effect. so there's a lot of talk about making it easier at to do business with a i in europe, but to face that they excel in developing regulation. and so it's, i think there's an idea of it's in, in conflict with what we're, the reality is in the european union, the agent, i looked up, the 5 main themes, public interest, a future of work, innovation and culture trust in i, and global i government. so now if you go back to 2023, the 1st one of these international a i summit so was held in the u. k. and blatchley paul comment. remember the time people were briefing on the idea that we needed to have proper international oversight. over a i, the suggestion was perhaps you use the model of nuclear power where you have the

international atomic energy agency, or the i a e, a, a, perhaps you have a, i, a, i, a, and that sort of thing seems now completely that a new or to designate i think it is, i think it's a fact that it's down to the law museum, the number 50 and actually very close to some of the technological conferences with spreading about the technology. but i'm one of the things you mentioned there on that day is that is not on the agenda and really these economic growth. because if you think about it for us, for the economic growth we've seen in the past 25 years, has come from the technology sector. you know, that's the difference when you look at the growth rates between europe and the us. the missing piece for europe is technology and in a site is what we talking about now in terms of regulation is can you develop a technology cycle kind of develop a proper place in the sun if you like, with this new technology. and obviously it's not just here is places like india, you know, this is the next phase of industrialization,

which is why places on the middle east for investing so heavily in education. and also in some of the infrastructure needed. and to a lot of people out of that is going to be very, very difficult. i think that's one of the places where we're going to have to have the conversation where a manual man from say it's a weight cut. cool. is spot on. it is a way of capt cold because it's about economic growth. and if we don't see the economic growth spreading out beyond the u. s. to the rest of the world, then we're going to have a very rocky 2 years to come. cody, on the idea of global governance of a, i mean, do you think there is a role for that in any way? certainly, i don't think donald trump would america 1st doesn't actually that, that philosophy doesn't seem to really match with global consensus in any way. and of course, international diplomacy works. so the glacial speed is, as we already discussed, hey, i is developing at such a very, very fast, right?

yes. well i, i think is unlikely we're going to see any governance, global guide governance agreement anytime soon. as you know, i, i work in the area of cyber security as well, and it's taking us decades to try to advance global approaches to combating cyber crime. so in the, in the cooperation and an investment levels and, and since synergy that would be needed for global governance framework. i think we're a long ways away. the good news is people are talking about that and, and as it's been pointed out as developing so rapidly that it may push diplomats to act faster than, than they have in the past. and to achieve some sort of agreement. and, and, and i think my colleagues right to, to bring up india because uh, india, as always is the world's largest democracy. it's always been a pool, a very rich talent. and so we'll see what happens. but the go global governance is

or topics that will remain on the stage. i just don't think it will be achieved in the near term. toby monochrome when he spoke seems to accept the red tape needs to be taught, but you weren't solely put lots of red tape in place. and it's interesting the example that he gave when he talked about becoming competitive. if he says, we'll simplify, think somebody gave baby, i'm being a little on file, but was the painstaking rebuilding of a 160 year old gothic cathedral? no, tom, i mean, is that a good example of how to turbocharged a, i mean to give the french credit and they have done a marvelous job at re rebuilding dr. down off to that rebuilding something. let's just use this for most the basement to say rebuilding something ai is being invented as we speak. it's not being rebuilt. indeed and you know, the time was very much set on the 1st day of, of trumps. the 2nd time a president,

he signed an executive order, one of the 1st executive orders that he signed, which was to undo, all of the regulation that bite and reports in on a lie. and that really has set the tone for the difference. we had the vice president voss talk about, you know, accelerating terabyte charging that that's what we can expect. so i suspect for the us moving fluids and the you are yes, definitely. it has the very 1st regulation. it's hard to see them on doing that very quickly. so it really has puts the castle on to the picture. how is your guy to keep a head pod taking this race when they all, you know, regulate the guy on both, both sides and then west anywhere else. adrian, you will that in europe in geneva, but not in the you do you think the e u was wrong to have gone so fast into regulation of a i the e u. a i act certainly met so which is the own of facebook,

instagram and whatsapp. that chief global affairs officer, jo copland has said that rules and now unworkable. and it's pushing europe to the sidelines. i think you have 2 different strategies when it comes to your on the 1st place, they have to protect the marketplace. they have on the 2nd point, they have to build their own capacity and they have been very good at the 2nd one. they've been very good at this the us and the 1st one has it has gotten into way of some of those big technology companies. and actually, that might not be a bad thing. as we've seen, for example, facebook mentors, legal balance of employees that i know to you are because actually your has protections in place for those employees. so there is something besides having rules and regulations and protections to people. but i think if you look at what you're doing to build capacity, you have to look at things like the chance which is nice trials at the chapel just using that is all the news. and that's quite an interesting new development in the world of airlines. it's all said go a written major announcement regarding

a data center coming up in by just like we're unable to be followed by french nuclear power. so it has both things going for it. what it struggles with is the part of this is a frame summit in europe, and europe is a single lawn care on the 20 plus countries that full needs to be acting together in concepts to develop this new technology. and that's what we don't see and you are right now, and that's where you are, needs to get a 2nd to get a jody does your not have some legitimate concerns. matt crawl, for example, was playing the green card, saying that donald trump keeps talking drill, baby, drill. it's plug, baby plucky says a nuclear power is available in france and they not going to have the same damaging effect on the environment. the oh, well, they environment is the environment and that's topics also going to stay on the table for quite a while but, but i think when it is it, we're in,

we're absolutely talking about the key points here. the us is going to continue to push for an open, unregulated environment. eat on most loves that and hates regulation. trump the same. i think we'll see a lot less regulation. but the export controls were not waved by by a, by trump biden's export controls with a i have remained in place, they may be re reviewed, but they remain in place. so i think we're looking at a situation where europe is talking and it sees what it needs to do. i think the reality is, is going to be hard to do it. my colleague mentioned the labor leaders there in europe. they have some of the toughest labor laws in the world. it will be hard to have a dynamic environment. yours also doesn't have the risk of funding the venture capital funding. would that a willing to,

to risk money like the us does. all of those factors are very important for driving innovation, so this will stay on the, on the table environment will stay there. but the us, i think you're going to say is going to clear a lot of that out of the way very rapidly. and the investment is huge, so i think you're going to see some significant advancements just because of the effort being put into it. to tell you about some dangers and getting rid of all the red tape means getting rid of all the god rails. i'll give you one obvious example that i have one raises, which is the military spear things autonomous wiping this robot was on. maybe i'm venturing into the realms of scifi, but an a i that may 1 day decided doesn't want to serve humans. and perhaps one does why we need humans anymore. i mean, all the legitimate concerns that or is this just scam hungry? there are very, there's the different concerns i did. i've spoken to the united nations off

a 1000 times all these very conserves. and you and you have to see video coming back from ukraine and other conflicts, items around the world to see how all of the pieces intelligence, autonomous drones, decision support systems in israel, transforming the way that we go about all of that is not without consequences. and we do have to worry that it may, may qualify a more terrible thing and how we, how we regulate that. he's going to be very important. so yes, there are real concerns to be had. it's the problem, but i always a do use technology. it can be used for post events, the very same thing will just be some negative ends. how do we ensure that we get the good we get the growth, we get the economic benefits of hospitality as we spread those benefits around and we minimize the risks. how do you h in push it to the to the air is not yet to the areas that are doing good for mountain calling, for example, medical research, curing cancer, potentially. and i think that research is going on right now. i mean,

the university i work with has a leading role in the field precisely because he wants to apply those kinds of technologies to really cutting edge issues. i mean, it's trying to solve the problem of biology using optics, unintelligence building on models that can actually interrogate proteins and renee to get to the extent that you can actually have a kind of biology model that will work to be sold. a lot of the issues of medicine, pharmacology and other kind of disciplines have really struggle with. so this is very exciting and these are the kind of things which really will deliver the kind of revolution. we change the people. imagine a lie to bring into people's lives. but i also thing to toby's point, the, you know, look at the military useful look at the diplomat to use. look at the way you can use a line to come up with waiting, waiting solutions that you can come up with complicated, you know, negotiations that can actually deliver good results to numerous policies. and ways

of previously, game theory would never have allowed us to kind of even contemplate, so all these technologies happen possibilities we use the very good ends and very important ends, not just for the kind of nightmare scenarios as science fiction noises. jody. i mean, as we said, india was one of the co hosts of the powers summit. and one of the things that the, the indians wanted was a specific focus on the needs of the global south. and i think there's a concern here that in, in the past with new technologies, but it hasn't helped the poorest and neediest on the planet. is that a consent it won't be in the us in the us is going to focus on the us and it, and the goal for a dominance will drive any other concerns. and you can see that trump administration doesn't care about or, or developing or less, or develop countries in the fact of their dismantling,

of us say id. so that's unfortunate, but i don't see a i as something that's going to drive economies in developing countries, any time in the near future. you'll, you'll view on that toby, do you see that this could be an engine of the global in the quality rather than so it will help lots and lots of people in the ritual, but not necessarily help people in poor countries. is an absolute roots concern. thing we have to worry that we know we have one waiver colonization way. we can realize that the physical well and we may be now doing the same with a digital assets the to the west will come in the game with its digital a supremacy and, and take over. and those economy is in this, in the global south, will be less further behind. and that will again amplify the tensions that we see within the world. since you're not using our own interest to ensure that everyone

benefits from this technology. i do very significantly, just keep me up all night but they might as well be left behind. different, not careful. i didn't you during this discussion, you've been pretty bullish. i think about a, i tell me what are your biggest concerns about a uh what, where are you most worried about what could go wrong? well, i'm, you know, i just want to pick up the point if i could have found the global sales and the concern that you would have if you like a lot of people at all. and i actually think what we could see is places like you can the place, like can you where you go, emerging technology house actually using very cheap i technology to actually 10 shop where you believe i had my thing. that's one of the things where we really need to, you know, take the gloves off and take off the link is all about, hey, all i know, think of it. and these are popular to times it's something that is going to absolutely destroy economies and destroy life. it's got a potential to lift the lot of people out if we left it. and if we let it help us.

thank you very much indeed to all 3 of you all guessed today, but jody westby. toby walsh, and adrian monk. remember this program comes to you every day of the year on television, on the phone app, as opposed costs, and it's on our website out to 0 adult calm. we want to hear from you use our facebook page, that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story, or find this on x, where we are at asia inside story from the james base of the team here though. huh . please stay safe and well bye for now. the, the so called el salvador is maximum security prison. the biggest in the world. bill to house the gang members that the government's cool. it's cracked. criminals who controlled entire communities have been put forward to use have no plans to ever let them know that in the almost 3

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