for a new syria to enlarge, there's no way we could live in the country again where it is. i see it as for this basement is part of our presence. opening up the conversations, representation methods we haven't had the best representation of african. so for us, it's about solving that puts a representation for our kids with fresh perspectives from less or heard voices. the stream explores the key issues of our time on algebra. donald trump says negotiations, it will start immediately to end the war in ukraine. the us present says russia and ukraine, folks, one piece, but we'll see you have any say in a final deal on who will be responsible for maintaining the piece that is inside store the

hello and welcome to the program. and it's, we're on the way to getting peace. that's what us present. donald trump said, after speaking to the leaders of russia and ukraine, after a lengthy phone conversation with vladimir putin on to show us a one with london is a landscape. trump seems confident a deal can be struck, but who will come out on top? trump imputed have plans to meet 1st in saudi arabia and follow with mutual state visits. it's not assigned as a landscape might be sidelined from the negotiations. how. what about europe with ukrainian nato membership seemingly off the table? how can the regions future secure to be guaranteed? we'll get to those questions in a moment. but 1st, this report by michael apple and i will get the problem solved and he didn't end it as quickly as he promised on the campaign trail. and it will take me no longer than one day. but us president donald trump is swiftly moving the needle on the war in ukraine. it started with

a 90 minute phone call to vladimir putin presidential and followed by a conversation with a lot of musicians. and i think we're on the way to getting peace. i think president one space and present into landscape one space and i want peace. i just want to see people stop getting killed. earlier that day. trump's new defense secretary was in brussels, delivering a blonde to message and their assessment of what in during peace might ultimately cost ukraine. returning to ukraine's pre 2014 borders is an unrealistic objective chasing this, illusionary goal will only prolong the war and caused more suffering. more than a decade ago, russia annex crimea, and sent troops into ukraine's eastern dawn bass region where they supported separatists movements in the nets and law hunts. since rushes full scale invasion on 24 february 2022. it's estimated that ukraine has lost nearly 20 percent of its

territory with russia gaining over 4000 square kilometers last year alone. but we want to end that or that was a disaster to really bloody horrible for since there's 1st time in office trump and couldn't have shaved, the somewhat cosy relationship. nice to be with. trump's relationship with zalinski on the other hand, has been fractured at times. trump labeling him the greatest salesman on us for his ability to extract hundreds of billions of dollars in u. s. military a to ukraine. with drums and food and seemingly in the driver's seat of these new negotiations, the landscape tried to spin the developments as a sign of american ukrainian unity viewed him was so silly, a medicare we believe that americans power is enough to together with us together was all partners, pressure of russia and putting towards pc,

which is not in the dawn of international diplomacy. so lensky increasing the finds himself with opposite partner isolates, and with ukraine's aspirations of nathan membership. now incentives is facing the reality of having to make concessions fall great to then each country and the hundreds of thousands who has made the ultimate sacrifice for it would have a want mike level elgin's era for inside story. okay, let's begin. august. joining us from moscow is vladimir certainly called an independent political scientist and an associate professor of international relations of the high school of economics in brussels is to raise a fall on the founder and director of the center for russia. your age of studies, i didn't keep his brother near your milenko, he's chief editor ukraine. well, a media platform designed to explain ukraine's politics and society to an

international audience. welcome to you will raise roll start with us. i may your appear in capitals have been blindsided by this happen like trump says that delegations would stop negotiations immediately. so we've been cutting you crate into your opinions also that it goes to actions as well. jump has been announcing that he wouldn't do this in 24 hours. no, it's a 100 days. so the europeans should have been thinking about this. but before i go any further, i just want to be clear that these are my personal views and they don't represent any organization that i've ever worked for. so i think send, i'm based here in brussels. i'm at a conference today by chance, but you know, everyone has been talking about this big buzz about what trump has said and takes us remarks. i called it the for knows, that were announced yesterday at nato headquarters. so they are upsets. you're being leaders and officials are extremely upset, but if we look at the stock market, it's been responding very positively in europe. let's face it. european. so have

a lot of fatigue in regards to the war. we see right. wing parties grow in europe in response to all the spending needed to continue the war. and ukraine. there doesn't seem to be the end in sight. we've also seen european leaders like, or bond tried to create, but the climate for peace talks to china can undermine, did so excuse for it is to have peace talks in switzerland. so i think that trump has given the europeans as you to wake up call, even though they should have been expecting something because he said this very often that he would solve this problem. it's not clear yet what is going to happen . as you noticed, there will be meetings and sorry radio zalinski we shouldn't count them out yet. he's very agile and it's important that you printed interests are also involved in all of this. but the main sticking points and all of this will be how is going to be maintained because the biggest fear for europeans and especially the central eastern european countries on the front lines is they don't want to minutes,

you know, to point out, they don't want to see, rush, i'd use this opportunity to rest, we arm and then we invade, because they feel that they're the next ones um, which is menu of all the main key. if you've heard theresa, give a long list of reasons why everybody would the welcome. this. the endings this conflict is aligned skis in a difficult position here, isn't he? he said he's had a long conversation about the possibilities of achieving peace with trump. but do you think he's going to be contact cuts out of any talks? all right, some possible to cut out ukraine of any talks. i mean we, we always forget about creating an agency and we always forget when we're talking about is how you create and was actually changing history and deposit decades through, through the orange of lucian in into thousands through the might. donnelly, pollution evolution of dignity in 2013 and 14. and so it's resistance to the russian invasion. 2022. everybody was thinking ukraine who is unable to do anything

and to resist and it appears that it does ukrainians, ukrainian ordinary people. you train your soldiers, what actually changing the geo politics. so we actually don't know anything about this, this trump piece supply and we don't know how we to be implemented. we don't know how americans will respond to basically russian, and it will to model homes because what, what, so the russians before, it's very much some of these demands. and then the people commenting the yesterday's news just don't take into consideration district training agency, plug them in moscow direct in the kremlin is very pleased with the phone call that boots in had with trump can. yes, thank you very much for inviting me to inside story program. in my regards to the article except on the show, i think that the push it was very much placed, the by the call, which you made uh from the prison from made to the team of this mind you made of

lead loan conversation. i think that actually uh the to lead us uh no. they the sort of turned off for 3 years to reinstate their license, which were broken from the 2022 weatherly specialties our price in stock. so i think that the, uh, this is probably a spot offer. the, um, uh, relation side what i'm saying, all the relations. i mean, the, the, uh, the close relationship between the united states and reference the ration of, i think that the most probably like truly those will dress but a viable plan for useful cyber. but we're getting open in the future. teresa and germany criticized the us today of making public concessions to putin the full a minute ago. negotiations of even begun. that is nathan membership, not being a realistic outcome. no troops in ukraine. on 2nd,

the pre 2014 ukraine board is asked before the next section of crime a are unrealistic objectives. what are the lea bridges is left in these negotiations? and i think as you know, that most people were shocked because, you know, trump had to go straight and book the heart of the deal. so it seemed like they laid out for things on the table that could have been incense of some sort of leverage with the russians. other ellis have said that this was a way to bring brush it to the table. but let's not forget, you know, this was a word choice by putting in ukraine ended. ukrainian says pay to her wrist, take cost for this word in terms of pete, the death of civilians, soldiers and destroying of the country. so does he just want to be seen as rewarding pollutants move? there was last, most wars are ended through some sort of peace negotiation. so i think that's the leverage issue is key. i mean, the us can have economic and military leverage that something that they can bring

to the table, but i go to the center that is kind of the elephant in the room. and all of this is that the us is showing that they've prioritized china and that this war in ukraine is dividing attention, eating a valuable resources, and they want europe to step up to the plate and do something. i mean, there's no reason why you can't do more and they've been really dragging their kills. so it's a bit rich that the german government is saying this. since the chancellor sells wouldn't do anything unless he was holding by his hand. for example, in regards to sending tanks to ukraine, severe pants have been moving extremely slowly, very carefully and worryingly. so the fact that europe was so slow and their response to the initial invasion and recreate really was detrimental to their own security. now that the us has limited resources and trumpet, this has a very different approach. then the more translates despite in administration. but we actually see your plans are starting to pay more on. they have promised to

percent, not even all the members state of needle members have reached this, agreed upon expenditure. now trump is asked for 5 percent spending for nato. and now more the judge. secretary general nato has said that 3 percent is the new goal . so your teams need to spend more, they've had the holidays from history. they haven't really been spending on defense for about 30 years, and it's going to take a long time to catch up. so i think it's clear the us has, there's a big concern about china and i think sometimes the messaging of your can eaters, for example, the european commission precedent or sort of underlined when she was a double signalled in her speech that europe was willing to work more closely with china to increase economic dependents on china. so i think that was maybe a red flag to the trumpet ministration. so this idea of kind of sitting on the fence trying to benefit from both of us and china did not really help their

position at all because of yes, they're going to have fewer security concerns. but unless you're takes care of this to your, the us has made it very clear that they are concerned about china and that europe is going to have to take care of this. okay, so in kiva flooding it, is there an appreciation that a fair the yes, the us is go to the priorities now to raise have mentioned china. i mean, does that once you have anything he has to negotiate with wasn't not the point of, of taking co scott, but of russian territory that i think the 1st it's not the ukrainian problem is, is your russian guest has commented is basically a russian problem. and the problem of the russian implicitly isn't uh, which is, you know, very, very aggressive and, and goes into other churches and other countries. so there is a big and they have it to as ice as i see both in europe and america, that there will be some kind of seas far and ukraine will not security go on. it will not get security guarantees. they will see what, what will happen. i will tell you what will happen. the directions will be on,

on the actual weight, and they will re launch the invasion into your crating or maybe in the baltic states. and this will be, of course, the problem for the whole you repeat union. and so the whole nature, unless we, uh and, and ukrainian partners help her to basically to achieve long term fees and sustainable . because this is the key objective here, the sustainable piece, and the sustainable piece means that there is protection of your printer. so we're going to independence and look if the capture of cherry trees but you create interpreters is legalized, then it means that you can violate, since the initial law, you can, you can violate boulders. so expect i am more than worse in, in, in the cold pass expect worse in other, in other countries as well. and that would be very, very words on the bar to be conscious. another continues to be good because it basically opens the way of the, from the books. okay. lot in it,

it must go about is an issue, isn't it? can russia a be trusted in any piece? still kind of rush, you be to be trusted, to keep the pace to maintain that these. i would put it another way. can you bring the trust, the feeling that the russia in the future will attack your train just like so. you can't even guess those fast. so i think that the 1st of all, the russia robina is russia will be assisting sorry to interrupt you. that's the way i left this on the ground should been recognized by all. but this has been sold there before negotiations by the united states by the unit the you now by your brains. so that is with prostate, wicked additional, but there will be no sense in doing a peaceful negotiation. so just quickly, the thing tell me, what's all those realities on the ground, they should be recognized from the, from the perspective before the okay, the news,

the, the nation that the, the software are strapped region assault, scared regional, don't, that's the people's republic and look out to people who are the students, what his options are there, i should just like it was stages and the, the arrange stated that the russians institution almost 2 years ago. the condition i think is that the attorney on the feel should be retreating. probably co scrooge of beth was a venture which was undertaken by the ukrainian troops last august. so that means that they just ceased upon the russian to the sort of so they, they should be treated pcs the condition without taking into consideration. i think no anyway, but is deal could be reached. ok, so let me just quickly go down by 2 of the n k of yes, yes you can, but essentially pete had excess a set the same thing, but the reality is, well, a lot of made, it must go set. that is what you are in the elastic is going to have to accept and

yet no look. i don't see a point of your tv channel to divide. people who just repeat pretends proof of the let's, let's just say carefully about this in the russian constitution. there is much more territories than the rough. uh, extra, the controls. and your guest knows that for example, you know, russian constitution, you have basically the center of the as a producer region and have somebody to the big seat as of what do you think of. so on and what the actual demand for all of you for you creating us to retreat from them. of course, ukrainians will not retreat then of course you're creating those will fight. but taking a big seat to russians were unable to take any big c d. during this war and i will remind you that they have actually taken care of something, but then the retreat it focused on under the pressure of the training and tubes. so basically if they continue that will work for these big seats as the war will continue. and that's one of those tiny details that i'm i'm, i'm afraid so neither trump, so many other people around him to wear all so the russian appetites are very,

very big. and they are showing that they are unable to compromise this, even when you, the russian guest says the reality on the ground. it seems that he doesn't really know what he's talking about. so and, and this the tiny points which are very important to, to keep in mind on this, to teresa, can i ask you, is this going to be a big test of unit see for your a and for nate? so your necessarily united on it's how the war in ukraine on the future of ukraine . is it going to be a big test as being negotiations take place to? i think that there's been a lot of magical thinking in regard to ukraine. unfortunately, i've seen a lot of leaders say things that people want to hear and behind closed doors, people say at different things. so b, u has promised that ukraine will become a member. so that would be a very important development, i think. and because that the match of the europeans is we have to pay and we're never a player,

but i think that they have stayed at many times. they want to create to become a member of the you. that would be an important a starting point. but the big issue is europe's under spending, and there was never a strategy for the end of the war. it was almost like, let's just give you kind enough things to survive but not with. and this has been something that the europeans have been criticized for. there's never been really a plan to when there was just that plan to just kind of carry on and people are forgetting things and they're getting resentful of lack of pressure to energy. so i, it's a dismal experience from all points of view. there are too many negative lessons as a ukrainian journalist has pointed out that the countries will be seen my are see this as a way to, you know, just grab territory up to the words international law here. sorry tom is against is what can i ask you, do you think, do you think russia would even tolerate ukraine membership of the european union? well, that was kind of the, the original problem wasn't it?

it wasn't about data with all that was the, the attractive story that they used. it was that you came, was moving westward, turning towards the west, becoming a finding an agreement with the young people tend to forget that because the other narrative is much more convenient. but it was really having the ukraine anchored in the west with the trade and values that the liberal democracy. and that is something that the moscow could not accept they, they didn't lines as long as they had their leader running ukraine. but when they were kind of pulling closer to the west and would you institutions that is the red lines 1st are putting them in in moscow that the best buy has been enormous human cost for russia. from this conflict is not going to total according to the crumbling plan, which i didn't vision that, that lasting just a few days. so it's in most goes interest. this ends quickly as well, isn't it? yeah, to is actually about the fall. i would like to say just for given that so to be

pretty, i'm guess who actually played me that i don't know what they're talking about. i really go very well of what i'm talking about when i was saying it all be the realities overall. so i think that actually, it seems that so this is a great cost for both countries, for your training and for russia. and i think that the, it is, we think the interest of the national interest of both countries to stop these facilities. but if the truck will be going right back right in our program from the side, the trade. so i think the know, anyway, but again, i'm just repeating myself boy. and you weren't able disagree with marriage because the 2 sides of the issue of united states. so i'm going to asian of you would have been, you know, without actually recognizing that your play should be a pop of major. uh, they should go to be able to, if they don't do so that will be not possible 3 chip is do. okay,

what do you mean? can you just help us understand what is the feeling in of ukrainians at the moment? you have people exhausted and relieved, but the whole might soon be over or angry. that off to the depths of hundreds of thousands of young men, they gonna lose nearly 20 percent of the countries, the landscape. not all what popular either at the moment, according to the latest pulse, as well, of course through creating so tired, the premiums are exhausted. but it's only one part of the truth. another part of the truth is that again, the army is there. russians has not made any big progress. the last here, just look at the map, look at them up and you will see that the majority of those changes, which are now okay, abide by the russians have been taken just in, in, in the few weeks after the full scale invasion started, when ukraine was really not very much prepared so seems to them ukraine,

me rock to sleep, immobilized a big are me too. and. and many of them, many of the people there are civilians, to protect this huge, huge territory and huge, huge boulder. and we are now you paying us are now a talking, russia, russia very deep into its territory. and just russia would shoot. you should be worried because it has a huge terry too, but this territory is really, really unprotected. so again, i mean. busy i don't think speak ukrainian school retreats. don't think that you bring us won't give up just because some statements of some big political leaders. it's a razor is, is you're gonna have to pay for all of this. in the end, reconstruction funds on supplies. peacekeepers, the americans don't seem to be wanting. want to be involved the toll, so we'll leave, which would your pa, this, if it's the one that's got a for the bill at the end of all of this? well, that's the question. that's what the europeans are horrified about. they want everyone to come in to pay. they want multiple countries to work there. uh,

you and peacekeepers perhaps showing up in ukraine. so the, all these facts and details need to be worked out. it's early days. we don't know, we don't have anything yet from the jump in ministration on this. so that is something, you know, pay or not player doesn't something of what your plans are worried about. but this is, has always been described as an excess dental crisis for europe. and i, i sincerely don't think they took it as seriously as an accidental crisis. they should have been far more proactive and the, hopefully, i don't know what, how, what it will take, there's been work going on a new claim for 3 years now. almost, we're almost up to the 24th anniversary of february 24th. so york has cut to get their act together. i mean, it still member states, i have not paid 2 percent of their towards nato. so i think so. it is. there is like to say we woke up, but then we pressed the snooze button and i,

it's really hard to get them out of this and they always say they act better in a crisis. they'll pull together. europe is deeply fragmented right now. there are a lot of issues and problems who's even been talking about a peace plan in europe. we haven't heard that. we haven't heard anybody apart. okay . victor or by the leader of hungry a, finding dentist would like to add to a lot of his comments about how bad things are for vasa. i mean ukraine has been able to fend off the russians for 3 years. so the russians are using north korean soldiers encouraged, i mean the shows how, how difficult the world has been kind of rush or the actually have to use going to create and soldiers. thank you. are a lot in a quickly with you in moscow, nathan's got these buffalo groups in the eastern reaches of europe in the baltic states. moscow is not happy about them, but kind of under up understand those eastern countries and those bolted countries . nervousness about what must go might demand of nato and the west in these talks. okay, no, no, i can assure you this must go, has all addresses,

let us store both neighbors and the most to really you're right. most of it is no, it was very much doris, about the drugs. and so the nature troops in the baltic states of the in the is 0. because if you remember the history, talk to you as i go back to promise and the united states pro is that they will be not touching boots on the ground for late the fall, just close to the bought us of russia. now we have different story. so that's why i would like to say the most one to the right. any bates of troops which really closer to the borders of russia to the rich. okay. folks, i'm very sorry we're completely out of time, but thanks to all august, the platinum is certainly called to to raise a filing of loading the malenko on. thank you to for watching. you can see the program again at a time by visiting our website address their adult calm. as

a further discussion, go to our facebook page. facebook dot com forward slash a j inside story. you can also draw on the conversation on x. we all got a j inside story from me. bonus smith on the hosting here by the february on as jersey to 3 years on from the outbreak of the war and you cream out of view. it explores the human cost analysis, whether politics or the battlefield will determine its outcomes for cause new direction looks at the challenges facing nations across the continent. as they move away from dependency. aiming to re define their futures after a vote of no confidence in germany's transfer people head to the polls with the sensor right christian democratic union party is expected to take power brussels shuttle on africa examines of russia's growing influence in the region through the

prison. the central african republic, ethiopia holds the african solutions as it chooses, leaders, february on a dizzy. what is the effect of the conflict on the environment? the impact is, is so much more than just emissions from tanks ships and will fight more than will say it has a devastating effect on people in the department of defense is emissions is as large as many countries. and every time ministry spent and increasing military emissions increased. and this war and this climate, christ all hail the planet on a jersey to the streets of damascus and look safe for children, the safety in numbers. but that doesn't always work. i was passing by the bridge and this guy came out. you asked me how much money i've got. i told him i didn't have any. just hit me in the class, spoke to afraid of being a doctor, 1314,

you don't use it. now sleeps in a different location in the night maternity. the often foundation estimate. they are 1200000, often abundant children. of course, syria. the morning, a cold winter night, 13 year old fucking on us and our friends hope to one day be able to go to school. but for now, the deadline is just to have 3 meals a day. the united nations say city is 15. yes, people, husky infected, it's to bring the most, affecting 80 percent of the more than $30000.00. what? 24 pages we are going to see the series of legend some gloves and the stories of civilizations that market history wants. this is where the story of savannah do you

have any stories to tell the the you're watching the news, our flight for my headquarters and so high and getting obligates are coming up for the next 60 minutes on us as committed to upholding the gaza cease fire deal and will release 3 is really captives on saturday. we must make nato.