from the press on the part of a broader effort to suppress the storage systemic emissions. lean control. what has this discussion will look like? you know, right wing media circles again is 50, is being labeled with the situation. the listening post be coding the media analysis era donald trump size negotiations. it will start immediately to end the war in ukraine. the us presence has russia and ukraine folks, one piece. so we'll keep already say in a final deal on who will be responsible for maintaining the fix that is inside store the hello and welcome to the program. and it's, we're on the way to getting peace. that's what us present. donald trump said after speaking to the leaders of russia and ukraine, after

a lengthy phone conversation with vladimir putin on the show, it's a one with flooding is a landscape. trump seems confident a deal can be struck, but who will come out on top? trump imputing hop plans to meet 1st in saudi arabia and follow with mutual state visits. it's not assigned the landscape might be sidelined from the negotiations. how. what about europe with ukrainian nato membership seemingly off the table? how can the regions future secure to be guaranteed? we'll get to those questions in a moment, but 1st this report by michael apple. it will get the problem solved and he didn't end it as quickly as he promised on the campaign trail. and it will take me no longer than one day, but us president donald trump is swiftly moving the needle on the war in ukraine. it started with a 90 minute phone call to vladimir putin presidential and followed by a conversation with a lot of musicians. and i think were on the way to getting peace. i think president

one space and present into landscape wants peace and i want peace. i just want to see people stop getting killed. earlier that day. trump's new defense secretary was in brussels, delivering a blonde to message, and their assessment of what's in during peace might ultimately cost ukraine returning to ukraine's pre 2014 borders is an unrealistic objective chasing this. illusionary goal will only prolong the war and caused more suffering . more than a decade ago, russia antics crimea, and send troops into ukraine's eastern done bass region where they supported separatists movements in the nets and law hunts. since rushes full scale invasion on 24, february 2022. it's estimated that ukraine has lost nearly 20 percent of its territory with russia gaining over 4000 square kilometers last year alone. but we want to end

that or that was a disaster to really bloody horrible floor. since there's 1st time in office trump and couldn't have shared this somewhat cozy relationship. nice to be with. trump's relationship with zalinski on the other hand, has been fractured at times. trump labeling him the greatest salesman on us for his ability to extract hundreds of billions of dollars in us military a to credit with crumbs and food and seemingly in the drivers seat of these new negotiations. the landscape tried to spend the developments as a sign of american ukrainian unity. either much on silly america. we believe that americans power is enough to, together with us, together with all partners and pressure of russia and putting towards pc, which is not in the dawns of international diplomacy. so lensky increasing the finds himself with opposite partner isolates,

and with ukraine's aspirations of nathan membership now in tattoos. he's facing the reality of having to make concessions fall great to then his country and the hundreds of thousands who has made the ultimate sacrifice for it. would have a one like level elgin's era for inside store. okay, let's begin. august. joining us from moscow is vladimir certainly called an independent political scientist and an associate professor of international relations of the high school of economics. and brussels is to raise a fall on the founder and director of the center for russia. your age of studies. i didn't, keith is brother, may your malenko? he's chief editor ukraine. well, a media platform designed to explain ukraine's politics and society to an international audience. welcome to you will raise will start with us. i'm a european capitals have been blindsided by this. happen like trump says that

delegations would stop negotiations immediately. so we did cutting you crate into your opinions also that association as well jump has been announcing that he wouldn't do this in 24 hours. no, it's a 100 days. so the europeans should have been thinking about this. but before i go any further, i just want to be clear that these are my personal views and they don't represent any organization that i've ever worked for. so i think send, i'm based here in brussels. i'm at a conference today by chance, but you know, everyone has been talking about this big buzz about what trump has said and takes that's remarks. i called it the 4 knows that were announced yesterday at nato headquarters. so they're upset. your opinion, leaders and officials are extremely upset, but if we look at the stock market, it's been responding very positively in europe. let's face it. european. so have a lot of fatigue in regards to the war. we see right. wing parties grow in europe in response to all the spending needed to continue the war. and ukraine. there

doesn't seem to be an end in sight. we've also seen european leaders like, or bond tried to create that assignment for peace talks to china can undermine, did so excuse efforts to have peace talks in switzerland. so i think that trump has given the europeans as you to wake up call, even though they should have been expecting something because he said this very often that he would solve this problem. it's not clear yet what is going to happen . as you noticed, there will be meetings and sorry radio zalinski we shouldn't turn them out yet. he's very agile, and it's important that you create interests are also involved in all of this. but the main sticking points and all of this will be how is going to be maintained because the biggest fear for europeans, especially the central eastern european countries on the front lines, is they don't want in minutes, you know, to point out, they don't want to see rush, i'd use this opportunity to rest, we arm and then we invade, because they feel that they're the next ones um,

which is menu of all the main key. if you've heard theresa, give a long list of reasons why everybody would the welcome. this, the ending to this conflict is aligned skis in a difficult position here, isn't he? he said he's have a long conversation about the possibilities of achieving peace with trump. but do you think he's going to be contact cuts out of any talks? all right, some possible to cut out ukraine of any talks. i mean, we, we always forget about to create an agency, and we always forget when we're talking about is how you created was actually changing history and deposit the kids through, through the orange of a lucian in, into thousands through the mcdonald pollution evolution of dignity in 2013 and 14. and so it's resistance to the russian invasion. 2022. everybody was thinking ukraine, what use in able to do anything and to resist and it appears that it is ukrainians, ukrainian, ordinary people. you probably know soldiers will actually changing the geo politics,

so we actually don't know anything about this, this trump piece plot and we don't know how we to be implemented. we don't know how americans will respond to basically russian, and it will to model homes because what, what, so the russians put forward very much, some of the stick demands and, and the people commenting the yesterday's news just don't take into consideration. the subterranean agency brought him in moscow direct in the kremlin. he is very pleased with the phone call the folks in the had with trump good. yes. thank you very much for inviting me to the inside story program. in my uh, regards to the article its uh on the show. i think that the push it was very much placed uh, by the quote which you made. uh, the president trump made sure that your email this uh mine to midland long conversation. i think that actually uh, the 2 lead us uh, not made the 1st attempt off for 3 years to reinstate their

license, which were broken from the 2022 whether the special newish operation stopped. so i think that the, uh, this is probably a spot to offer. the, um, uh, relation side, what i'm saying, all the relations, i mean the, the, the close relationship between the united states and russians duration. and i think that the most probably they truly this will address, but a viable plan for useful cyber, but we're getting open in the future. theresa and germany criticized the us today of making public concessions to putin. the full a minute ago. negotiations of even begun that is nato membership, not being a realistic outcome. no troops in ukraine. on 2nd, the pre 2014 ukraine board is asked before the arctic station of crime. there are unrealistic objectives. what are the leave ridges is left in these negotiations?

and i think as you know, that most people were shocked because, you know, trump had to go straight and book the heart of the deal. so it seemed like they laid out for things on the table that could have been incense of some sort of leverage with the russians. other ellis have said that this was a way to bring brush it to the table. but let's not forget, you know, this was a word choice by putting in ukraine and that ukrainian says pay to her wrist, take cost for this work in terms of keep the data civilians soldiers and destroying of the country. so does he just want to be seen as rewarding pollutants moved? there was the last, most flores are ended through some sort of piece negotiation. so i think that's the leverage issue is key. i mean, the us can have economic and military leverage that something that they can bring to the table. but at this time she does kind of the elephant in the room. and all of this is that the us is showing that they prioritized china and that does work in

ukraine, is dividing attention, eating a valuable resources, and they want europe to step up to the plate and do something. i mean, there's no reason why europe can do more, and they've been really dragging their deals. so it's a bit rich that the german government is saying this. since the chancellor shows wouldn't do anything unless he was holding biden's hand. for example, in regard to uh, sending tanks to you. okay. so your parents have been moving extremely slowly, very carefully and worryingly. so the fact that europe was so slow and their response to the initial invasion and ukraine really was detrimental to their own security. now that the us has limited resources and trumpet, this has a very different approach. then the more trans, let's, despite it, administration. but we actually see europeans are starting to be more they have promised to percent. not even all the members state uh, the needle members have reached this agreed upon expenditure. now trump is asked for 5 percent spending of for nato. and now more the judge. secretary general of

nato, has said that 3 percent is the new goal. so your teams need to spend more, they've had the holidays from history. they haven't really been spending on defense for about 30 years, and it's going to take a long time to catch up. so i think it's clear the us has, there's a big concern about china and i think sometimes the messaging of european eaters, for example, the european commission precedent, or sort of underlined when she was a double signalled in her speech that europe was willing to work more closely with china to increase economic dependents on china. so i think that was maybe a red flag to the trump administration. so this idea of kind of sitting on the fence trying to benefit from both of us and china did not really help their position at all because of yes, they're going to have cute security concerns. but unless you're takes care of this to your, the us has made it very clear that they are concerned about china and that europe

is gonna have to take care of this. okay, so in kiva flooding it, is there an appreciation that a fair the yes, the us just go to the priorities now to right. they've mentioned china. i mean, doesn't the, once you have anything he has to negotiate with wasn't about the point of, of taking co scott, but of russian territory that i think the 1st it's not the ukrainian problem is, is your russian guest has commented is basically a russian problem. and the problem of the russian immediately isn't uh, which is, you know, very, very aggressive and, and goes into other territories in other countries. so there is a big navy to as ice as i see both in europe and america, that there will be a, some kind of seas far, and ukraine will not security go on. it will not get security guarantees. and we'll see what, what will happen. i will tell you what will happen, the directions will be on the actual weight, and that will be launch the invasion into your crating on may be in the baltic

states. and this will be, of course, the problem for the whole europe union. and so the whole nature, unless we uh and, and ukrainian partners help her to basically to achieve long term based on sustainable because this is the key objective here. the sustainable piece. and the sustainable piece means that the res, protection of your pain, goes over into independence. and look, if the capture of cherry trees recreate interpreters is legalized, then it means that you can violate and the initial law. you can, you can violate boulders. so expect, am more worse in, in, in the cold planet expect worse in the, in all the countries as well. and that would be very, very worried on the part of the conscious. another continues to be good because it basically opens the way of the pump, the books. okay. lot in it, it must go about is an issue, isn't it? can russia a be trusted in any piece? deal kind of rush would be to be trusted to keep the pace to maintain that these.

so i would thought it's another way, can you break the trust of the saying that the russia in the future will attack if you try and just like say you can't even get so fast. so i think that the 1st of all, the russia will benefit russia will be assisting, sorry to interrupt you. that's the way i left this on the ground should been recognized by all participants. so there before negotiations by the united states, by the unit and you know, by your brains. so that is what i think i would not get additional, but there will be no sense in doing a peaceful negotiation. so just quickly, the thing tell me, what's all those realities on the ground, they should be recognized from the, from the perspective before the, the news, the, the nation that the, uh, sort of scratch region, assault scared region don't, that's the people's republic and look out to people remotely our duty to this

office, whether i should just like it will stay just as the the rain stated, the russian constitution almost 2 years ago. the condition i think is that the ukrainians feel should be retreating. probably close scrooge of beth was a venture, which was undertaken by the ukrainian troops last august. so that means that they just seize upon the russian to the daughter. so they, they should be a to just, by least the condition without taking into consideration. i think, well anyway, but is deal could be reached. okay, so let me just quickly go the n k of yes, yes you can, but essentially pete's heading set a set the same thing, but the reality is what a lot emitted must go set. that is what you are and the is the last is going to have to accept in the yet no look, i don't see a point. so oh for a few. busy or give you general to divide people who just repeat, put his propaganda. but let's,

let's just say carefully about this in the russian constitution. there is much more territory is than roughly extra the controls and your guest knows that for example, international constitution, you have basically the center of the as a producer region and have somebody to the big see to zip. what do you think of so on? and what the actual demand for all of you, for you creating us to retreat from them. of course, ukrainians will not retreat then of course, recreating us will fight. but taking that big seat to russians were unable to take any big c d. during this war and i will remind you that they have actually taken care of something, but then the retreat is focused on under the pressure of the opinion tubes. so basically if they continue, they will work for these big stages. the war will continue, and that's one of those tiny details that i'm i'm, i'm afraid so neither trump, so many other people around him to wear all so the russian appetites are very, very big and they are showing that they are unable to compromise this, even when you, the russian guest says the village on the ground,

it seems that he doesn't really know what he's talking about. so, and, and this the tiny points which are very important to, to keep in mind on this, to teresa. can i ask you, is this going to be a big test of unit c for your and for nate? so your necessarily united on it's how the war in ukraine on the future of ukraine . is it going to be a big test as being to go see asians take place to? i think that there's been a lot of magical thinking in regard to ukraine. unfortunately, i've seen a lot of leaders say things that people want to hear. and behind closed doors, people say at different things. so the eu has promised that ukraine will become a member. so that would be a very important development, i think. and because that the match up the europeans as we have to pay, and we're never a player, but i think that they have stated many times they want to create to become a member of the you. that would be an important a starting point. but the big issue is europe's under spending,

and there was never a strategy for the end of the war. it was almost like, let's just give you kind enough things to survive but not with. and this has been something that the europeans have been criticized for. there's never been really a plan to when there was just a plan to just kind of carry on and people are forgetting things and they're getting resentful of lack of brushing energy. so i, it's a dismal experience from all points of view. there are too many negative lessons as you can. um, journalist has pointed out that countries will be see my, our seat this as a way to go describe territory. the words international law here. sorry tom is against is what can i ask me? do you think? do you think russia would even tolerate ukraine, membership of the european union? well, that was kind of the, the original problem wasn't it? it wasn't about data with all that was the, the attractive story that they used. it was that you came, was moving westward, turning towards the west, becoming a, designing an agreement with the you. people tend to forget that because the other

narrative is much more convenient. but it was really having the ukraine anchored in the west with the trade and values at the liberal democracy. and that is something that they must go, could not accept. they, they didn't lines as long as they had their liter running ukraine. but when they were kind of pulling closer to the west and with the institutions that is the red lines 1st are putting them in in moscow that the best has been enormous human cost for russia. from this conflict is not going to total according to the kremlin plan, which i didn't vision. did that last thing just a few days. so it's in moscow's interest. this ends quickly as well, isn't it? gotcha, is actually about the fall. i would like to say just for given that so to be very, i'm guess who actually played me that i don't know what they're talking about. i really go very well of what i'm talking about when i was saying it all be. the

reality is not like at all. so i think that actually it seems that so this is a great cost for both countries. spell, you're trading the for russia, and i think that the, it is within the interest of the national interest of both countries to stop these customers as well, if the truck will be going by about like in our program from the side, the trade. so i think the know, anyway, but again, i'm just repeating myself boy, and you want to have a disagreement couldn't reach because the 2 sides of the video shall not be like a stage. so i'm going to asian off of you would have been, you know, we've always actually amazing that your play should be a pop of major. uh, they should go to the, if they don't do so that will be a possible 3 chip is do. okay, what do you mean? can you just help us understand what is the feeling in of ukrainians?

at the moment you have people exhausted and relieved that the goal might soon be over or angry. that off to the depths of hundreds of thousands of young men, they gonna lose nearly 20 percent of the countries the landscape. not the old lot popular either at the moment, according to the latest pulse. well, of course, ukrainians are tired so the premiums are exhausted. but it's only one part of the truth and other part of the truth is that again, the army is there. russians has not made any big progress. the last here, just look at the map, look at them up, and you will see that the majority of those territories, which are now okay, by and by the russians have been taken just in, in, in the few weeks after the full scale invasion started. when ukraine was really not very much prepared, so seems to them ukraine, me rock to sleep, immobilized a big army too. and, and many of them, many of the people there are civilians to protect this huge,

huge territory and huge, huge boulder and the we are now you bring us are now a talking russia, russia very deep into its territory. and just russia would shoot, you should be worried because it has a huge territory, but this territory is really, really unprotected. so again, i mean. busy don't think speak ukrainian school retreats. don't think that you bring us will give up just because some statements of some of big political leaders . it's a razor is, is you're going to have to pay for all of this. in the end, reconstruction funds on supplies. peacekeepers, the americans don't seem to be wanting. want to be involved the toll. so what leverage what your path is, if it's the one that's got a for the bill at the end of all of this. well, that's the big question. that's what the europeans are horrified about. they want everyone to come in to pay. they want multiple countries to where is there? uh, you, in peacekeepers perhaps uh, showing up in ukraine. so with all these facts and details need to be worked out. it's early days. we don't know,

we don't have anything yet from the trump administration on that. so that is something, you know, pay or not player. this is something of what your plans are worried about. but this has always been described as an excess dental crisis for europe. and i, i sincerely don't think they took it as seriously as an accidental crisis. they should have been far more proactive and the hopefully, i don't know how, what it will take. there's been work going out a new claim for 3 years now. almost. we're almost up to the 24th anniversary of february 24th. so york has cut to get their act together. i mean, it still member states, i have not paid 2 percent of their towards nato. so i think so it is. there is like to say we woke up, but then we pressed the snooze button and i, it's really hard to get them out of this. and they always say they act better in a crisis. they'll pull together. europe is deeply fragment of right now. there are lots of issues and problems who's even been talking about

a piece plan in europe. we haven't heard that. we haven't heard anybody apart from victor or above the leader of hungry. a funny, i just would like to add to a lot of his comments about how bad things are for vasa. i mean ukraine has been able to fend off the russians for 3 years. so the russians are using north korean soldiers encouraged me. this shows how, how difficult the world has been kind of rush so that i actually have to use going to create and soldiers. thank you. are a lot in a quickly with you in moscow, nathan's got these buffalo groups in the eastern reaches of europe and the baltic states. moscow is not happy about them, but kind of under up understand those eastern countries and those bolted countries . nervousness about what must go might demand of nato and the west in these talks. okay. no, no, i can assure you this must go, has no address or us store voltage neighbors. and the most to really, you're right mostly is know, it's very much doris. about the drugs and so the nature troops in the baltic states

of the in the eastern europe. because if you remember the history about 2 years ago, the age of promise not states pro is that they will not touching boots on the ground forbid. the saul just close to the borders of russia. now we have different story. so that's why i would like to say the most one to the right. any beta troops which really closer to the borders of russia to the rich. okay. folks, i'm very sorry. we're completely out of time, but thanks to all guess the platinum is certainly called to raise a filing of lot to me. you have malenko on thank you to for watching. you can see the program again at a time by visiting our website address their adult calm. as a further discussion goes, well facebook page, facebook dot com forward slash a j inside story. you can also draw on the conversation on x. we all got a j inside story from me bonus smith and the whole team here by

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a dot q a the, [000:00:00;00] the hello i'm about to some of this of the news on live from. don't have coming up in the next 16 minutes. i'm a says it's committed to upholding the gaza sees 5 deals and will release 3 is really captives on saturday night. hopefully it's on a united front. as you train ones against dividing the world that follows a phone call between donald trump and vladimir putin. whatever they charge us,