stay combining accounts this refugees. danger to mid me, sir. perhaps worse than death is the package of survive the syrian refugees seeking officers, searches for disappeared sister. mine may suit a witness documentary on adjust. donald trump says negotiations. it will start immediately to end the war in ukraine. the us present says russia and ukraine, folk peace. but we'll see you don't have any say in a final deal on who will be responsible for maintaining the inside story, the

hello and welcome to the program. and it's, we're on the way to getting peace. that's what us present. donald trump said, after speaking to the leaders of russia and ukraine, after a lengthy phone conversation with vladimir putin and ida shultz, a one with one of them is a landscape. trump seems confident a deal can be struck, but who will come out on top? trump imputed have plans to meet 1st in saudi arabia and follow with mutual state visits. it's not a sign the landscape might be sidelined from the negotiations. what about europe with you? crazy and nato membership seemingly off the table. how can the regions future secure to be guaranteed? we'll get to those questions in a moment. the 1st is report by michael apple that i will get the problem solved and he didn't end it as quickly as he promised on the campaign trail. and it will take me no longer than one day, but us president donald trump is swiftly moving the needle on the war in ukraine. it started with

a 90 minute phone call to vladimir putin presidential and followed by a conversation with a lot of musicians. and i think were on the way to getting peace. i think president one space and presidential landscape one space and i want peace. i just want to see people stop getting killed. earlier that day. trump's new defend secretary was in brussels, delivering a blonde to message in their assessment of what in during peace may ultimately cost ukraine. returning to ukraine's pre 2014 borders is an unrealistic objective chasing this, illusionary goal will only prolong the war and caused more suffering. more than a decade ago, russia and ex crimea, and sent troops into ukraine's eastern done bass region where they supported separatist movements into nets and little hans. since rushes full scale invasion on 24, february 2022. it's estimated that ukraine has lost nearly 20 percent of its territory

with russia gaining over 4000 square kilometers last year alone. but we want to end that or that was a disaster to really bloody horrible floor. since there's 1st time in office trump and couldn't have shared this somewhat cozy relationship. nice to be with. trump's relationship with zalinski on the other hand, has been fractured at times. trump labeling him the greatest salesman on us for his ability to extract hundreds of billions of dollars in us military a to you, chrysler with drums and food and seemingly in the driver's seat of these new negotiations. zalinski tried to spin the developments as a sign of american ukrainian unity viewed them was so silly, a medicare we believe that americans power is enough to, together with us together was all partners pressure of russia and putting towards

pc, which is not in the dawns of international diplomacy. so lensky increasing the finds himself with opposite partner isolates, and with ukraine's aspirations of nathan membership. now incentives is facing the reality of having to make concessions fall great to then each country and the hundreds of thousands who has made the ultimate sacrifice for it would have a want mike level elgin's era for inside story. okay, let's begin. august. joining us from moscow is vladimir certainly called an independent political scientist and an associate professor of international relations of the high school of economics in brussels is to raise a fall on the founder and director of the center for russia. your age of studies, i didn't, keith is brother, may your milenko, he's chief editor ukraine. well, a media platform designed to explain ukraine's politics and society to an

international audience. welcome to you will raise roll start with us. i may your appear in capitals have been blindsided by this. happen like trump says that delegations would stop negotiations immediately. so we did cutting you crate into your opinions also that it goes to actions as well. jump has been announcing that he wouldn't do this in 24 hours. now it's a 100 days. so the europeans should have been thinking about this. but before i go any further, i just want to be clear that these are my personal views and they don't represent any organization that i've ever worked for. so i think send, i'm based here in brussels. i met a conference today by chance, but you know, everyone has been talking about this big buzz about what trump has said and takes that's remarks. i called it the for knows that were announced yesterday at nato headquarters. so there upsets you're, being leaders and officials are extremely upset. but if we look at the stock market, it's been responding very positively in europe. let's face it, european. it's

a have a lot of fatigue in regards to the war we see right. wing parties grow in europe in response to all the spending needed to continue the war and ukraine. there doesn't seem to be the end in sight. we've also seen european leaders like for bond tried to create the climate for peace talks of china can undermine so excuse efforts to have peace talks in switzerland. so i think that trump has given the europeans as you to wake up call, even though they should have been expecting something because he said this very often that he would solve this problem. it's not clear yet what is going to happen . as you notice there will be meetings and started to radiate. zalinski, we shouldn't turn them out yet. he's very agile, and it's important that you create interests are also involved in all of this. but the main sticking points and all of this will be how is this going to be maintained? because the biggest fear for europeans, especially the central eastern european countries on the front lines, is they don't want to minutes, you know, to point out,

they don't want to see russia uses opportunity to rest. we are and then we invade because they feel that they're the next ones um, which is menu. a brought in there and key if you've heard to race. so give a long list of reasons why everybody would the welcome this the endings, this conflict is aligned skis in a, a difficult position. here isn't the. he said he's have a long conversation about the possibilities of achieving peace with trump. but do you think he's going to be contact cuts out of any talks? all right, it's impossible to cut out ukraine of any talks. i mean, we, we always forget about to creating an agency, and we always forget when we're talking about is how you created was actually changing history and deposit decays through, through the orange of lucian in into thousands through the might donald evolution evolution of digney teen 2013 and 14. and so it's resistance to the russian invasion. 2022. everybody was thinking ukraine is unable to do anything and to

resist and it appears that it does ukrainians, ukrainian, ordinary people. you probably know soldiers will actually changing the geo politics . so we actually don't know anything about this, this trump piece supply, and we don't know how it will be implemented. we don't know how americans will respond to basically the russian and it will to model homes because what, what, so the russians put forth very much some of these demands. and um, and the people come entering the yesterday's news. just don't take into consideration the supreme agency flooding it in moscow. do you reckon the kremlin is very pleased with the phone call the folks in the had with trump good? yes. thank you very much for inviting me to inside story program. and my regards to the article except on the show, i think that the push it was very much placed by the call, which you made the i'm the president trump made to the team of this mind. you made

of lead loan conversation. i think that the actually, uh the to lead us, uh no, they the sort of turned off for 3 years to write and state their license, which were broken from the 2022 whether the special needs are priced in stock. so i think that this is probably a spot offer, the relation side, what i'm saying, all the relations, i mean the, the, the close relationship between the united states and reference the ration of, i think that the most probably like truly this will for dress, but a viable plan for useful cyber, but we're getting open in the future. theresa and germany criticized the us today of making public concessions to putin the full a minute ago. negotiations of even begun. that is nato membership, not being a realistic outcome. no troops in ukraine on 2nd,

the pre 2014 ukraine board is asked before the next section of crime. there are unrealistic objectives. what are the lea bridges is left in these negotiations? and i think as you know, that most people were shocked because, you know, trump had to go straight and book the heart of the deal. so it seemed like they laid out for things on the table that could have been incense of some sort of leverage with the russians. other ellis have said that this was a way to bring brush it to the table. but let's not forget, you know, this was a word choice by putting in ukraine and ukrainian says pay to her wrist, take cost for this word in terms of pete, the death of civilians, soldiers and destroying of the country. so does he just want to be seen as rewarding pollutants move? there was last, most wars are ended through some sort of peace negotiation. so i think that's the leverage issue is key. i mean, the us can have economic and military leverage that something that they can bring

to the table. but at the center that is kind of the elephant in the room. and all of this is that the us is showing that they've prioritized china and that this war in ukraine is dividing attention, eating a valuable resources, and they want europe to step up to the plate and do something. i mean there's no reason why you can't do more and they've been really dragging their keels. so it's a bit rich that the german government is saying this. since the chancellor sells wouldn't do anything unless he was holding by his hand. for example, in regards to sending tanks to ukraine, severe pants have been moving extremely slowly, very carefully and worryingly. so the fact that europe was so slow and their response to the initial invasion and ukraine really was detrimental to their own security. now that the us has limited resources and trumpet that has a very different approach, then the more trans let's, despite it administration. but we actually see your plans are starting to pay more

and they had promised to percent. not even all the members state of needle members have reached this agreed upon expenditure. now trump is asked for 5 percent spending of for nato. and now more because secretary general of nato has set the 3 percent is the new goal. so your teams need to spend more, they've had the holidays from history. they haven't really been spending on defense for about 30 years, and it's going to take a long time to catch up. so i think it's clear the us has, there's a big concern about china and i think sometimes the messaging of your can eaters, for example, the european commission precedent or sort of underlined when she was a double signalled in her speech that europe was willing to work more closely with china to increase economic dependents on china. so i think that was maybe a red flag to the trumpet ministration. so this idea of kind of sitting on the fence trying to benefit from both of us and china did not really help their

position at all because of yes, they're going to have fewer security concerns. but unless you're takes care of this to your, the us has made it very clear that they are concerned about china and that europe is going to have to take care of this. okay, so in kiva flooding it, is there an appreciation that a fair the yes, the us is go to the priorities now to raise have mentioned china. i mean, it doesn't look like you have anything he has to negotiate with. wasn't not the point of, of taking co scott, but of russian territory that i think the 1st it's not the ukrainian problem is, is your russian guest has commented, is basically a russian problem. and the problem of the russian imperialism. which is, you know, very, very aggressive and, and goes into other territories in other countries. so there is a big navy to as ice as i see both in europe and america, that there will be some kind of seas far. and ukraine will not security go on, it will not get security guarantees. and we'll see what, what will happen. i will tell you what will happen. the directions will be on,

on the actual weight, and that will be launch the invasion into your crating on may be in the baltic states. and this will be, of course, the problem for the whole you repeat union. and so the whole nature, unless we uh and, and ukrainian partners help her to basically to achieve long term fees and sustainable. because this is the key objective here. the sustainable piece. and the sustainable piece means that there is protection of your printer. so we're going to independence and look if the capture of cherry trees but you create interpreters is legalized, then it means that you can violate, since the initial law. you can, you can violate boulders. so expect i am more than worse in, in, in the cold planet expect worse in the, in all the contents as well. and that would be very, very words on the bar to be conscious. another continues to be good because it basically opens the way of the, from the books. okay. lot in it,

it must go about is an issue, isn't it? can russia a be trusted in any piece? still kind of rush, you be to be trusted, to keep the pace to maintain that these. i would put it another way. can you bring the trust? the one thing that the russia in the future will attack your brain just like so. you can't even guess those fast. so i think that the 1st of all, the russia will be in the 1st rush. it will be assisting, sorry to interrupt you. that's the way i left this on the ground should been recognized by all. but this has been so bad before negotiations by the united states, by the you'd have been, you know, by your brains. so that is with prostate. i would not click additional, but there will be no sense in doing a peaceful negotiation. so just quickly the tell me what's all those realities on the ground, they should be recognized from the, from the perspective before the okay, the news, the, the nation that the,

the software are strapped region assault, scared region don't. that's the people's republic and bluegrass people, remotely. our duty to this office, whether i should just like it was stages and that the arrange stated that the russian prostitution almost 2 years ago. the condition of the thing is that the attorney on the feel should be retreating prom because scrooge of beth was a venture which was undertaken by the ukrainian troops last august. so that means that they just seize upon the russian students order. so they, they should be able to just pcs'd the condition without taking into consideration. i think no anyway, but this deal could be reached. okay, so let me just quickly go the n k of yes, yes you can, but essentially pete's heading set a set the same thing, but the reality is, well, a lot of myriad must go set. that is what you are and the is the last is going to

have to accept. and yet, no look. i don't see a point of, of your tv channel to divide. people who just repeat pretends proof of the let's, let's just say carefully about this in the russian constitution. there is much more territory is than roughly actually controls. and your guess knows that for example, you know, russian constitution, you have basically the center of the as a put easy region and have some of these are the big stages of what do you think of so on and what the actual demand for all of you for you creating us to retreat from them. of course, ukrainians will not retreat then of course, you're creating us will fight. but taking that big seat to russians, we're unable to take any big c d during this war. and i will remind you that they have actually taken care of something, but then the retreat it focused on under the pressure of the opinion tubes. so basically if they continue that will work for these big seats as the war will continue. and that's one of those tiny details that i'm i'm, i'm afraid so neither trump, so many other people around him to wear all so the russian appetites are very,

very big. and they are showing that they are unable to compromise this, even when you, the russian guest says the reality on the ground. it seems that he doesn't really know what he's talking about. so and, and this causes the tiny points which are very important to, to keep in mind on the so teresa can i ask you, is this going to be a big test of unit c for your up and for nate? so your necessarily united on it's how the war in ukraine on the future of ukraine . is it going to be a big test as being negotiations take place to? i think that there's been a lot of magical thinking in regard to ukraine. unfortunately, i've seen a lot of leaders say things that people want to hear and behind closed doors, people say at different things. so b, u has promised that ukraine will become a member. so that would be a very important development, i think. and because that the match of the europeans is we have to pay and we're never a player,

but i think that they have stayed at many times. they want to create to become a member of the you. that would be an important starting point. but the big issue is europe's under spending, and there was never a strategy for the end of the war. it was almost like, let's just give you kind enough things to survive but not with. and this has been something that the europeans have been criticized for. there's never been really a plan to when there was a plan to just kind of carry on and people are forgetting things and they're getting resentful of lack of pressure to energy. so i, it's a dismal experience from all points of view. there are too many negative lessons as a ukrainian journalist has pointed out that the countries will be seen my are see this as a way to, you know, just grab territory up to the words international law here. sorry tom is against is, but can i ask what you think you think russia would even tolerate ukraine membership of the european union? well, that was kind of the, the original problem wasn't it?

it wasn't about data with all that was the, the attractive story that they used. it was that you came, was moving westward, turning towards the west, becoming a, finding an agreement with the you. people tend to forget that because the other narrative is much more convenient. but it was really having the ukraine anchored in the west with free trade and values that the liberal democracy. and that is something that they must go could not accept they, they didn't lines as long as they had their leader running ukraine. but when they were kind of pulling closer to the west and when you institutions, that is the red lines 1st are putting them in in moscow that the best has been enormous human cost for russia. from this conflict is not going to total according to the crumbling plan, which i didn't vision that, that lasting just a few days. so it's in most goes interest. this ends quickly as well, isn't it? yeah, to is actually about the fall. i would like to say just for given that so to be

very, i'm guess who actually played me that i don't know what they're talking about. i really go very well of what i'm talking about when i was saying it all be the reality is not working at all. so i think that actually, it seems that so this is a great cost for both countries for your trade in the, for russia. and i think that the, it is, we think the interest of the national interest of both countries to stop these customers. but if the truck will be going right back right in our program, probably find the trade. so i think the know, anyway, but again, i'm just repeating myself the way you want to have a peace agreement couldn't reach because the 2 sides of the video shall not be allowed to stay. and so i'm going to asian of you would have been, you know, without actually recognizing that your play should be a pop of major. uh, they should go to the, if they don't. uh, so that will be not a possible 3 chip is do. okay. well to me and can you just help us understand what

is the feeling in of ukrainians at the moment you have people exhausted and relieved that the whole might soon be over or angry. that after the deaths of hundreds of thousands of young men, they gonna lose nearly 20 percent of the countries the landscape. not the old lot popular either at the moment, according to the latest pulse. well, of course, ukrainians attire. the premiums are exhausted, but it's only one part of the truth. another part of the truth is that again, the army is there. russians has not made any big progress. the last here, just look at the map, look at them up and you will see that the majority of those changes, which are now okay, abide by the russians have been taken just in, in, in the few weeks after the full scale invasion started, when ukraine was really not very much prepared. so seems to them ukraine,

me rock to sleep, immobilized a big are me too. and. and many of them, many of the people there are civilians, to protect this huge, huge territory and huge, huge boulder and the we are now you paying us are now a talking, russia, russia very deep into its territory. and just russia would shoot. you should be worried because it has a huge terry too, but this territory is really, really unprotected. so again, i mean. busy i don't think speak ukrainian school retreats. don't think that to bring us won't give up just because some statements of some big political leaders. it's a razor is, is you are going to have to pay for all of this in the end, reconstruction funds on supplies. peacekeepers, the americans don't seem to be wanting. want to be involved the toll, so we'll leave, which would your pa, this, if it's the one that's got a for the bill at the end of all of this? well, that's the question. that's what the europeans are horrified about. they want everyone to come in to pay. they want multiple countries to work there. uh,

you and peacekeepers perhaps showing up in ukraine. so the, all these facts and details need to be worked out. it's early days. we don't know, we don't have anything yet from the trump is ministration on this. so that is something, you know, pay or not player. this is something of what your plans are worried about. but this is, has always been described as an excess dental crisis for europe. and i, i sincerely don't think they took it as seriously as an accidental price. they should have been far more proactive and the, hopefully, i don't know what, how, what it will take. there's been work going on a new claim for 3 years now. almost. we're almost up to the 24th anniversary of february 24th. so york has cut to get their act together. i mean, it still member states, i have not paid 2 percent of their towards nato. so i think so it is. there is like to say we woke up, but then we pressed the snooze button and i,

it's really hard to get them out of this and they always say they act better in a crisis. they'll pull together. europe is deeply fragment of right now. there are a lot of issues and problems who's even been talking about a piece plan in europe. we haven't heard that. we haven't heard anybody apart. okay . victor or by the leader of hungry a, finding dentist would like to add to a lot of his comments about how bad things are for vasa. i mean ukraine has been able to fend off the russians for 3 years. so the russians are using north korean soldiers encouraged, i mean the shows how, how difficult the world has been kind of rush or the actually have to use going to create and soldiers. thank you. are a lot in a quickly with you in moscow, nathan's got these buffalo groups in the eastern reaches of europe and the baltic states. moscow is not happy about them, but kind of under up understand those eastern countries and those bolted countries nervousness about what must go, might demand of nato and the west in these talks. okay, no, no, i can assure you this must go, has no address or us store, uh,

both neighbors and the most to really you, you are right. most of it is no, it was very much doris, about the drugs. and so the nature troops in the baltic states of the in the is 0. because if you remember the history, talk to you as i go, they to promise not it states pro is that they will be not touching boots on the ground for late the fall, just close to the borders of russia. now we have different story. so that's why i would like to say the last one to the right. any bates of troops which really closer to the borders of washington, the rich. okay. folks, i'm very sorry we're completely out of time, but thanks to all guess the platinum is certainly called to raise a falling of lot to me. you're malenko on thank you to for watching. you can see the program again at a time by visiting our website address their adult calm and for further discussion,

go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash a j inside story. you can also draw on the conversation on x. we all got a j inside story from me. bonus smith on the hosting here by the a secret agent claimed by both israel and egypt. well, any case officer who receives catch or double age, always assume the worst true to lies. fact or fiction. most of the documents are full to people of either of those on the, out of their well tells the story of the mind as many secrets shift motor one on elders era we're facing a future that we don't understand,

we can't predict fully. everyone has this. nobody knows what would happen the i need 60 percent, but i need to do more. we've mainly i was like, you know what? i don't like most of i want to change. why have i want to be trustworthy? i want to be responsible, but it keeps getting inspired to the story is on one of those, bringing the communities to contact me a great the 5 behind i move forward because on what we need is being able to move forward. and that isn't just a matter of science, that's a matter of what do you think about your fellow human beings because it is a matter of democracy the that they may not for the top of the table. they might not have the biggest

stages. but they stand as tightens in the face of the freshest fall right to move. next, you want to show the world that the good guys can sometimes when they are the force behind jim's poly phenomena. defined to make foot on the destiny because deep connection with nature. despite them to spread the message about the critical importance of protecting it, i'm traveling down the ammonia river with thank you to visit approach at 2 sides to within 5 to start up to seeing a vision in an i was concerned many. he was moved to take the action and cause wisdom beyond that tire tree to place is a pitch. somebody's in the disconnect from nature, fueling the destruction of the forest. he chose the nearest town and irish out time

a took on to fulfill his vision of 2018. he opened an institute which he named your rank passed through and see the . ready ready ready okay, it's all the same day while the top stores now and out, is there a master's degree to resume the terms of the goals of c spots out? and they'll have to previously saying it intended to suspend it. 3 is rarely caps is, are expected to be handed over on saturday and return for the release of putting in prison is being held in. is there any chance massachusetts ro, validating the terms of a deal by limits in aid, specifically housing and heavy machinery from getting into goals? or the change of stones comes off to him, asked delegation mets. the talks in colorado, egyptian, and contort immediate has the group set. the discussions,

doing all the things and contacts focused on the need to adhere to the implementation of all the terms of the agreement with on to.