or the is anyone bothered about human rights anymore from israel? osborne gauze at the conflict. and so don, the democratic republic of congo, me in mon, elsewhere activists say it's never been hot to protect the drums. transactional approach to international relations is also challenging traditional diplomacy. so how do you keep human rights on the agenda? this is inside, still the

hello welcome to the program. and it's the global institutions meant to safe got a rules based order and respect for international law or in powell. i'm gonna say internationally is raising the alarm, saying the system is failing, and the whole notion of universal human rights might be on the threat. this time around donald trump has made it clear he intends to write his own rules, leaving the rest of the world on shore, where it stands, lead as a gathering munich security conference. well, discuss the most stubborn ongoing conflicts. is the high data mutually agreed rights and wrongs becoming irrelevant? what does trumps america 1st agenda mean for the future of all international institutions? we'll get to those questions in a moment, but 1st this report by michael apple or me i we haven't asked you to speak yet, please. since donald trump's return to the white house, it's been one executive holder after another

a. he's flashing federal jobs withdrawing. the us from numerous agreements and international organizations, closing down agencies and even declaring war on paper straws. we're going back to plastic. so as these things don't work, transactions or challenging traditional alliances and shattering international norms, thank you very much. is repeated, sanctioning of the international criminal court. only assign those things to come. says amnesty international. even if people don't try zip, full values, rise up for your, for your interest because you will be next. we own wouldn't be next. let's make it very clear. this is just the beginning of a process that's 62 and the late. what's left of the 1940 a 12 door will lead is, are in germany at the munich security conference, where discussions will interrogate the state of the international order. was in

gaza, ukraine sudan, democratic republic of come to me in my visa, just some of the crises, international institutions. and the united nations security council have struggled to make any headway in resolving there's been a tax on human dignity and human rights across the board. and the leader of the world super paula doubling down on his intention to own gauze and permanently resettle more than 2000000 palestinians. you can live in gaza right now. it's up to the, to point it, to the war crime to, for some people out of their places. and it could be a crimes against too many t. t t's a well organized internet should amongst to a sneak between this and the list says prompts comments have set the tone for his 2nd turn in office. it's quite clear from earlier statements from the tropic

ministration, and that's this administration does not believe in the way it's the relevance of international law. and this particular proposal, because here the will be foundation off a number of university great rooms. multilateralism and traditional alliances are being tested. the munich security conference could be a reminder of the fragility of the global load and the weakness of the international institutions meant to reinforce mike level al jazeera for inside story. let springing our guests joining us from melbourne. australia is jeffrey robinson, the human rights buyers to unfold the united nations war crimes judge in doha is motorized lc gallery, the vice president of your med rights, a network of human rights organizations based in the your, a mediterranean region,

and not robust site and highlighted a human rights lawyer at executive director of vocal africa network of human rights activists and leaders across africa. welcome to you, old jeffrey robinson. i'll, i'll start with you. how precarious is the liberal international order? but many countries more or less subscribed to. it's under great pressure. the induced cause it's new from united nations security council of the united nations is included stories, right? you have a show, 5 country is with a veto united states, the two's a reaction about who's route and russia wages and reactions and tries to bring peace to the new crazy more. so there are 20 on, on 6 getting on the world. and the lawsuit likes

is very considerable and the united nations cannot do, inducing the box because we do what is likely to happen. crane is these tools for the companies. ministration is hostile action justice. each way the pain can crowd the curio steps to ban. i'm c. c. international court judge is prosecutors from a treating america or even if they enter in order to report to 9 nations. so you have and actively hostile countries who prepared to rip up the international world war to say was and the possibly russian

was about each has moved up to united nations drop in beijing, and then he's in his credit room a united nation doing them so. okay, it's really helpful for them that's going to pre we must come up with all the way of searching, making cool. and so she was like, well, most as jefferson touch that on, on the witness of the, of the you. and then it's an ability to really enforce human retrospect for human rights. and the u. s. doesn't want to be the guardian of this in the liberal international order anymore. so. so who will notice that when we have to consider that the post world war 2 institutional arrangement that tries to buy, sit back, which continue with us. but over the last few years, it out, of course, in you, what do you intend to particularly use or just governments that used to support somehow support human rights in international relations. started to change your

position, this international human rights of game and all that for it to work you need to engine an engine, usually is a forces which you can support to get a game and make it more coherent and make, make it functional. but we haven't been noticing over the last decade that there is a, he had a problem with and so which 10 seer was the right rise of the right wing with the united states, a hostile execute stewart, international institutions. so all of that to the present and man, subject to the sustainability and function ability of this international human acts . as you have a 100 counts remote us, it is. this is what i'm going to say actually existed, the gym continued to provide the space for activism. for people to convey that a fully voice is, i think we need to back to basics. and here i mean by the basics that to human rights activists need to continue at conveying to the public why human

rights values are really events. and why do we need it to de motors at any time before? and this is actually require some of the patient is effective and destructive of activism folder for the gates. you might have to organization focused mainly on advocacy was big little months on government and on the assumptions that government will. but when you're pretty sure government, the government to achieve break through and humanize 2 days this, this system may not work like that. so he wants active is need also to move to more mobilization to the enlarge and it's an app constituency. and to focus on the different forces and different symptoms of a lot of even outsides. that was done is fear. so okay, without packing of the changes that the additional advocacy work may not achieve the same result is that we used to see since the late 19 seventy's are saying

you've said that you sort of feel a pain shall blow back more and africa from human rights violations when they committed elsewhere. never mind in africa. why is that? why do you feel that more that i think, uh, as the, as a continent uh for, for the kids we have been on the receiving end. particularly if you look to, for instance, the one published by, you know, it's communities in africa, communities in different countries, within the continent. that's how i feel like, you know, and the front of the migration, the we, whether it's an issue, whether it's uh, you know, people coming in from other parts of the world to, to settled here. whether it's uh, you know, or say end up being taken out, the munition settled like minerals that need to get out of a free got to somehow find some of this was if you look at what's happening in ukraine, for example, we had such a rustic, the economic impacts in africa because of the war, a new cream. so either continental, you have a condition that need

a beating the bearing, the brunt, i mean know for, you know, some of the set of rules and for us it's a very, very dangerous presidents that were the same thing. we have basically seeing an open and clear front to international law, and for that we're seeing an upfront to international standards of human rights and justice. and this is the, you know, for us as africa, extremely warning because we, uh, now the magic continent and we are supposed to come in now and to try and ensure that we are able to also have a voice of that international. i ran that, that the international stage, but then right now we're seeing particularly the western forces coming in this month. you know, these international instruments, these international institutions. and for us, these, these extremes extracting watering because we know we wouldn't be able to products at the end of the day. or a jeffrey, you written about trumps

a tax on the international criminal court. and it's on it's a judge is particularly acute in recent months. is the court thought very court existence at risk now? existences known risk? 179 country, so called the auto state 19 reply to trump's episode sanctioning stop. every judge is in the prosecutor from coming to new york to go to the united nation and seizing any money. let's say it happened to have and stopping. the assistants has be given from time to time by the united states with investigations was the prosecution coaches. when she's playing with via tom c, i a material uh this will not be available in the great,

the great maintenance fact and beneficiary of mr. trump sanctions of the i. c e is vladimir. so it seems to me that this is just a continuation of a very strong street in the republican party. all american exception with it goes back to jesse. so who is this? all right, we say that to who in the 19 seventy's us, but we call the bottom of the hey back, which is still in force which gives the very competitive power to invade the z. if any americans use m o c p is in the hey, so this hostility to international justice is decreased or willing to so i think the may suffer

a e is the american diploma. how can any american diplomatic be taking so costly now with, with the problem as his goals and direct. and so americans haven't made a match to the quote to the international world order from europe, but onwards. sure. it's chad in a way that they know comp trust. just very quickly though, jeffrey, can i just pick up on a, you know, you say the quote is not a threat, but when the rest more and where to shoot for benjamin netanyahu and the chief, the military, the, some european countries with fairly equivocal on whether they would you know, execute those warrens if netanyahu landed on it landed and particularly european countries, the whole hosted for it was a, this is any piece of the black obviously. and it

was the sheet as a south african cold rogue, a few years ago in relation to the c, v. each president, we had an arrest warrant issued by the young c. c, that it was the guarantee member states, members, the 123 states, the members isn't guys to see, to arrest and the guy p. okay, comes with him in coach, but i got the cold that was show last week by the all right. you are a t o state does indicate that reinstate certainly will support the i c. c. you're expecting this to talk to mr. all right. most as a jeffrey i the same so retains confidence in mid your ability the i c. c. how do you

see the pressure that it's under at the moment because of the arrest warrants, but not in yahoo and other institutions like it? or is it pressure is uh, unprecedented. but also at least take in perspective need to be given to international justice institution. this project is not all is in the new one and 19 nineties ends the 20th century and towards the end time phone was a high days of international justice. the international couldn't afford to stop listening. 2002. and right now is the 127 s date of birth is on the exam and, and i think i'm and 17 situation, which is of course, unimportant, unpromising sign photos of what goes i see. but the oddity is international justice is, is not to be seen in either the kind of politics. and this is very important to him evaluating how was a hold work and how international justice, black from work as well. while experience had been struggling for the case at to

bring in between those 2 justice in before even though i see it was a good way attempts before court was the universe as the restriction it was not successful and even some you will be on the government amended just 0 at laws in order to restrict as a. ready this quote to buy bought us thing in the organization. now it is, it is unprecedented move who ins, itc started really to look at the scene and situation and to release every store. and again, this is really the official jesus, something unimaginable and few years ago today, if there's any oddity and it is expected that it will, of course, that the present, the test to the international community by default would also be resisted. it is just go into the inside now that america is ruled by a donor from who has a very hostile attitude towards i see. but i think europe has had room for play here at to counterbalance as american influence on the quote. and even that little

by itself is that he had it now, is that many auto countries, most of countries, automotive state, but it is difficult. so there is also responsibility is to government incentives, the most advocate and sort of in sort of categories to support the support of the supported circles of justice. we are just the, even as, as government in india. and what was the public opinion is that even we should look just look at how wisdom government behave, but also how many things adhesion a been a little bit of both of these projects that oxygen, that motorists. but do you see any indication that governments in the middle east and north africa are stepping up to that to challenge you should just like to take on? so unfortunately, because inconsistency and deputies, tundra is also come on ends and maybe just on those. i think that we have seen how out of government been with a justice into them in the for, in syria and even some, some government, south africa selves of or double supportive to the city and cause insight,

international court of justice. but, you know, south africa also politically to then at for them to us. you see. so, but it's done, but it's everywhere. not just is always, it is everywhere and you want us defender are confronted with this reality, but it just helps the system work. busy it does not yet published on a consistent the monarch and this is that entities that we need to deal with as human rights activist. jose and you've got the african shots assigned, i think by every country on the continent that gives the african union the right to intervene in case of genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity. have you ever heard of a tried to do that and how much do developing will countries take the lead from western countries on issues like this? yeah, that's true. um, we do have the african shuts when human and people's rights and the almost all country to say for morocco, signatories truly. so try to think has been used for manual occasions. for example, i know sometime last year is right. and the applied to both of us

teach us and a, you know, african countries go to that dentist that you know because of what was happening in palestine and everything. so i believe that africa as a continent has to the file in the past, we've had that number of cases and i think a and my brother just mentioned the case of so that in some cases, african countries i felt about the icbc has been extremely hard on that, but even so i would african countries off for countries have continued. they have to abide by, you know, what has been agreed at the international level. and we quite strongly believe that there is made for us to have international standards. because we o, you know, human beings and there must be some form of, uh, you know, bringing people together as you money may, when individual country withdrawing when individual countries, things that you know, they cannot be monitored or they cannot abide by what has been that grid at the

international level, that's when we begin losing you. there's enough freaking commission on too many people's rights. how challenging is its work? i think the conclusion on human and people's rights has tried to do it yourself. and in many cases we've seen them, you know, looking up at cases that we think the continent that are very important, you know, the displacement of individuals based douglas myself because i never done what the time. and this is why we are very, very, this dis, coverage, but what is happening at the international level? because we know most of the times when you leave the individual states to address issues at the local level. and then, you know, countries particularly within the past the been, you know, abuse even bell on low call the constitution and laws and all that. then that brings us to that international, strongly diving t. that's we can then force people to apply international standards because we know when we apply them, surely as my brother said, that very many double standards. so when we see that,

those countries that have led in the past, you know, in terms of ensuring that there isn't national equivalence, that of course, old days we have standards. we have 5, you was, you know, when those countries, particularly into waste bins, we school or actually take away the powers are biggest international institutions. well then he becomes extremely painful, particularly for african countries. that's why we need to insist that to, you know, communities whereby the people allow me to sign up and the odd yeah, government to apply these international expenditures, expect to see how many times we expect to see our of my brother told me, lisa and all the african, the people must know supposed to be a government to apply these international standards, because that's the only way we can make sure that we have financing across the what . okay, jeffrey, the munich security conference, i guess column all the i must achieve said we're a 1930 scenario. nope,

post 1948 will post 1989. all we, you know, that is very different data you have hit to the elected democratic play by the government, people preparing to take who but many countries today we have elected demographically, it seems by the people of russia in this way, you know, a really clear, awesome just and you go over a gauge ukraine, which is all i need to for this man with about half a 1000000 people. so when you have someone as weak as larry may have a in shot, i'm sure we'll see 2 in the security codes. yeah. so united name and h t o n. okay. i mean it's possible to reform the

security council that is, or some states is suggesting, but they will not. america will not keep box or on jefferson. uh, risk. do you like me in 196. thanks, jeffrey, talking about time against me. unfortunately, about most as why do you is the view, i can just kind of mazda comments, all we in a 19 thirty's, a scenario i know about the very sort of your weight, your team way of looking at it. but you see is like that, i think right now your does it as a wake up pulling to europe and does your opinion. and especially on the drum administration. and we would see how it was, any confusion was russia will go on, but you would have need to stand up and the to have that i wanted to play into a little bit of politics. and i have seen over the last few weeks, some mobility happening in process. i'm going to be on

a copy those and the statement there to just explain how is this moment this important for you all to depend on itself and also to spend. the defendant must collect that needs to fusions and to be fine. uh, its rule is a little bit of politics. without that, i think it will be at the end of the electronics, but also we have to be realistic of the fact of domestic politics and you'll be and you'll be in companies. so i'm going to be in government are very supportive to this international project visit that is basically today also, and increasing the threat of a new uh from business at all. is that big bought a many, it'll be under government drives, maybe at the shop for a day, it'll be and project over as a short or make a okay and a site. and then just lastly with you, if we're heading from the sort of us lead unipolar arrow to a multi, multi polar wall kind of africa. look after the human rights needs of the confidence on its own. i believe the weight of the support from, you know,

euro phenomena, countries, but also if we strengthen the african, the commission and restraints and the human and people's rights commission. i believe we can do that, but just twice or the other question, i think compared to the 9th incentives are in the west situation. the water is now a global village, green one community, and when internationally, those waterways get well the responsibility of providing lead issued by the by study the international, the standards. then we put the associate of very dire situation. so in terms of offering, i think we're really, i think we can provide the necessary checks and balances required locally. but then again, we don't know, but i do know, fox, you, we are part of the global community and we need to see those standards being applied everywhere. otherwise we do have, he does always take advantage of the situation and say when they're about to face charges, when you have communities want to check with them to the i c, c they then we control exciting as a power the postal withdrawing. so again,

we kind of released, but then we also belong to the global community and we need to see the standards applied to goals. so that international. okay, other that's a great point. we have to leave it on the site and thank you very much. thanks to all of august the jeffrey robinson to motivated fee agree on the site and highlight on thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website. i'll just share a dot com for further discussion. go to a facebook page about facebook dot com, forward slash ha, inside story. your goal is to join the conversation on x. we are at a inside store for me, but it's smith on the whole team here by the the latest news as it breaks this, a free dial ceasefire offers a crucial life like 3 stations to cling to

a lot of thing during months without troubleshot, with detailed coverage thousands of pregnant women are suffering from malnutrition, the hydration and extreme stress conditions that with both their life and their baby actress from the heart of the story. these shots have been closed due to the fog. their owners have been forced on board, showed at this time as one of the highest instance mortality rates in the world and human rights was to which one dying every hour due to pregnancy complications, one east meets the breed midwife fighting to see the lives of pakistani mothers and their babies, pakistan's maternal mortality on l g 0. afternoon. democratic nations justified this kind of behaviors. collateral damage has collateral damage. that's why we all team is leading to what we're seeing that will allow me to push back for a moment is the us systems corporate is real effective. it's a little bit branding from the impact to the us selections,

the escalating conflict in the middle east, and the urgency of climate action upfront sets the stage for serious debate on out jersey or the full hails upon it, interrogates. well, i always think about climate change, the way they do this, the global issue is abstract. so whatever i do, it doesn't seem to make a dent. alley re reveals how with being and if you liked it into distancing also from the climate crisis and delaying meaningful action. as faculty for reactions has been both intentionally and unintentionally quite a few ideas to create confusion as if we're confused with the power of psychology in booking climate action. on l. g 0 the,

[000:00:00;00] the fellow i'm real about this and this is the news on life from joe. how coming up in the next 60 minutes. how about us names? the 3 is ready, captives held in gaza to be released on saturday in return. israel is expected to release the $369.00 palestinian prisoners of detaining the largest exchange of so far. the protests of how the