crisis and delane meaningful action outside the logical reactions has been both intentionally and unintentionally quite a few ideas to create confusions. if we're confused to the power of psychology in booking climate action on out to 0. is anyone bought about human rights any more from israel? osborne gauze at the conflict and saved on the democratic republic of congo, me in law and elsewhere. activists say it's never been hot to protect the vulnerable donald trump transactional approach to international relations is also challenging traditional diplomacy. so how do you keep human rights on the agenda? this is inside store, the hello welcome to the program. and it's the global institutions meant to safe got

a rules based on respect for international law or in powell. i'm gonna stay internationally. so raising the alarm, saying the system is failing, and the whole notion of universal human rights might be on the threat. this time around donald trump has made it clear he intends to write his own rules, leaving the rest of the world. i'm sure where it stands, late as a gathering munich security conference. well, discuss the most stubborn ongoing conflicts. is the idea of mutually agreed rights and wrongs becoming irrelevant. what does trumps america 1st agenda mean for the future of international institutions? we'll get to those questions in a moment, but 1st this report by michael apple. i we haven't asked you this bank yet place since donald trump's return to the white house, it's been one executive holder after another. he's flashing federal jobs withdrawing the us from numerous agreements and international organizations,

closing down agencies and even declaring war on paper straws. we're going back to plastic. so as these things don't work, transactions or challenging traditional alliances and shattering international norms. thank you very much. is repeated, sanctioning of the international criminal court. only assign those things to come. says amnesty international. even if people don't try zip, full values, rise up for your, for your interest because you will be next. we all wouldn't be next. let's make it very clear. this is just the beginning of a process that's 62, and the late. what's left of the 1940 a 12 door will lead is, are in germany at the munich security conference, where discussions will interrogate the state of the international order. was in gauze, ukraine, sudan,

democratic republic of congo. me in my visa, just some of the crises, international institutions. and the united nations security council have struggled to make any headway in resolving there's been a tax on human dignity and human rights across the board. and the leader of the world superpower doubling down on his intention to own gauze and permanently resettle more than 2000000 palestinians. you can live in gaza right now. it's up to the, to point it to the will crime to, for some people out of their uh, places. uh and it could be a crimes against too many t. t t's a well organized it is internet should amongst 2 twins in this and the list says prompts comments have set the tone for his 2nd turning office. it's quite clear from earlier statements from the trumpet ministration. that's this administration does not believe in the weights the relevance of international law. and this

particular proposal because here the will be in foundation off a number of university great rooms. multilateralism and traditional alliances are being tested. the munich security conference could be a reminder of the fragility of the global load and the weakness of the international institutions meant to reinforce mike level al jazeera for inside story. let springing our guests joining us from melbourne, australia is jeffrey robertson, the human rights bar, as to unfold the united nations war crimes judge in doha is motorized lc gallery, the vice president of your med rights, a network of human rights organizations based in the your a mediterranean region and, and i rather be, as i say in hollywood, a human rights lawyer at executive director of focal africa network of human rights

activists and leaders across africa. welcome to you, old jeffrey robinson. i'll, i'll start with you. how precarious is the liberal international order, but many countries more or less subscribed to. it's under great pressure, the induced because it gives them uh, from the united nations security council of the united nations is closest to these, right? you have e should 5 country is with a veto. united states, the 2 is a reaction. allow his router and brasher wages, every action and tries to bring peace to the new crazy more. so there are 20 on, on 6 getting on the world. and the lawsuit life is very considerable. i'm the united nations cannot do and using the

box because we do know what is likely to happen. crane this piece towards the the truck ministration. these hostile ration justice each way, the painted crowd, the steps to ban. i'm see, see, international crew court judge is prosecutors from a treating america or even if they entered in order to report to 9 nations. so you have actively hostile countries who are prepared to rip off the international world war to say what and the russian was bought has moved up to united nations chop in

aging. and there isn't quite a rule uh united nations and so okay, it's a leak out from that point we must come up with all the way of searching, making cool associated with right. well, los as just the robust and touch that are on, on the weakness of the, of the us and then it's inability to really enforce human right. respect for human rights. and the u. s. doesn't want to be the guardian of this in the liberal international order anymore. so. so who will notice that when we have to consider that the post to the door, to the institutional arrangement that tries to buy, sit back, which continue with us. but over the last few years, it out, of course, in you, what do you intend to particular, these are just governments that used to support somehow support human rights in international relations. started to change your position. is this international human rights redeem in order for it to work you need to engine an engine,

usually is a forces which you can support to get a game and make it more coherent and make, make it functional. but we haven't been noticing over the last decade that there is a, he had a problem with and so which 10 is, here we go, right, arise of the right wing with the united states, a hostile execute stewart, international institutions. so all of that to the present and the incident to the sustainability as a function of the, of this international human acts as you have a 100 pounds remote us, it is. this is what i'm going to say actually existed, the gym continued to provide the space for activism. for people to convey that fully voice is i think we need to back to basics. and here, i mean by the basics that to human rights activists need to continue at conveying to the public why human rights values are read events. and why do we need

it to day motors at any time before? and this is actually, it requires some of the patient is effective and destructive of activism for, for the gates. you might have to organizational. busy because mainly on advocacy was big blue months on government and on the assumptions that the government will. but when you're pretty sure government, the government to achieve break through and humanize 2 days this, this system may not work like that. so you might have to activate, need also to move to more mobilization to the enlarge and it's an app constituency. and to focus on the different forces and different symptoms of a lot of even outsides that was done is few. so okay, without changes that the additional advocacy work may not achieve the same result is that we used to see since the late 19 seventies are saying you've said that you sort of feel a pain shall blow back more and africa from human rights violations. when that

committed elsewhere, nevermind in africa. why is that? why do you feel it more that i think uh, as a, as a continent uh for, for the kids we have been on the receiving end. particularly if you look to, for instance, the one published by, you know, that it's communities in africa, communities in different countries, within the continent. that's how high to like, you know, at the front of the migration, the way they seem to be changed. whether it's uh, you know, people coming in from other parts of the world to, to set to here. whether it's uh, you know, or say, and it being taken out, the munition settled like minerals that need to get out of africa to somehow find some of this was if you look at what's happening in ukraine, for example, we had such a rustic economic impact in africa because of the war in ukraine. so i the continental, you have a condition, i need a beating the bearing, the brunt. i mean, you know, some of the set of rules and for us it's a very,

very dangerous pressure times the real estate team. we have basically seen an open and clear front to international law, and for that we're seeing an upfront to international standards of human rights and justice. and this is the, you know, for us as africa, extremely warning, because we are now that imagine continent and we are supposed to come in now and to try and ensure that we are able to also have a voice of that international. i ran that the international stage, but then right now we're seeing particularly the western forces coming in this month. you know, these international instruments, these international institutions. and for us, these, these extremes, externally watering, because we know we wouldn't be able to products at the end of the day. or a jeffrey, you written about trumps a tax on the international criminal court. and it's on it's a judge is particularly acute in recent months. is the court thought very court

existence at risk now? existences known risk? $179.00 country, so called out of state 19 reply to trump's episode sanctioning stop p. every judge is the prosecutor from coming to new york to hold to the united nation and seizing any money. let's say it happened to have and stopping. the assistants has be given from time to time by the united states with investigations was the prosecution of coaches, which is partly in relying on c i a material uh this will not be available in the great as the great maintenance fact. beneficiary of mr. trump, sanctions of the i, c e is vladimir. so it seems to me that this is

just a continuation of a very strong screen in the republican party of american exceptionalism that goes back to jesse. so who was this? all right, we say that to who in the 19 seventy's us, but we call the bottom of the hey back, which is still in force, which gives the american president how to invade the z if any americans use ever he is in the hey, so this hostility to international justice is the core we need to so i think the may suffer a he is the american diploma. how can any american diplomatic be

taking so costly now with with the problem as his cost and direct. and so americans haven't made a match to the quote to the international world order from euro, but onwards. sure. okay. it's chad in a way that they know we trust. just very quickly though, jeffrey, can i just pick up on a, you know, you say the quote is not a threat, but when the rest more and we're issued for benjamin netanyahu and the chief, the military, the, some european countries with fairly equivocal on whether they would you know, execute those warranties. netanyahu landed on in london, particularly europe in countries. the whole hosted for it was a, this is any, the p, c, b flat, obviously. and it was the geography as a so called rogue a few years ago in relation to the c,

v. each president, we had an arrest warrant issued by the army, c. c. but it was the guarantee member states, man, because of a 123 states. the members isn't guys to see to arrest and the guy p. okay, comes with him and comes but i think on the cold that was showed last week by them. all right, you are a t o state does indicate ok. reinstate set rate will support the i c. c. you're expecting this to track on most as a jeffrey is the same. so retains confidence in the your ability the i c. c. how do you see the pressure that it's under at the moment because of the arrest warrants, but then yeah, i know other institutions like it. this is a pressure is uh,

unprecedented. but also at the at least take in perspective need to be given to international justice institution is this project is not all, isn't as a new one in 19 nineties, in the 20th century and towards the right time phone was a high days of international justice. the international giving that quote, establishing 2002 and right now is the $127.00. they stayed, birth is on the exam and, and i think i'm and 17 situation which is of course unimportant, unpromising sign photos of what goes i see. but the oddity is international justice is, is not to be seen in either the kind of politics. and this is very important to him, evaluating household work and how international injustice blood from work as well. while experience have been struggling for the case at to bring in between those 2 justice in before even though i see it was at the times before court was the

universe of eviction. it was not successful. and even some you will be on the government amended just 0 at laws in order to restrict as of this quote, the bible hosting and the organization. now it is, it is unprecedented. move the wins odyssey started really to look at the scene and situation and to release every support. and again, this is what are the top officials, is this something unimaginable and few years ago today, it is a attitude, and it is expected that it will, of course, that the present, the test to the international committee came up with all this would also be resisted it is just go into the inside now, is that medicaid is ruled by a donor from who has a very hostile attitude towards the i see. but i think europe has had room for play here at to counterbalance as american influence on the quote. and even that little by itself is that he added the now is that many out of countries, most out of countries, automotive state, but it is difficult. so it is also responsibility is to government the ends. i mean,

the least, the most advocate and sort of in sort of categories to support the support of the support of samples of justice. we are just the, even as a government in bins adhesion or somebody to be an institution. we should look just look at the wisdom of government and behave, but also how many things adhesion a been a little bit of both of these projects that oxygen, that motorists. but do you see any indication that governments in the middle east and north africa are stepping up to that to challenge use adjustments to take on those? unfortunately, because inconsistency and deputies tundra is also come on ends and maybe just on those. i think that we have seen how out of government been ways adjust this into them in the for, in syria and even some, some government in south africa. so i was ever double supportive to the city enclosed in international court of justice. but you know, south africa also protect it to them at for them to us. you see. so, but it's done,

but it's everywhere, not just things always, it is everywhere and you want us defender are confronted with this reality, but it just helps the system work. busy it does not yet published on a consistent the monarch and this is that entities that we need to deal with as human rights activist. jose and you've got the african shots assigned, i think by every country on the continent that gives the african union the right to intervene in case of genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity. have you ever heard of a tried to do that on how much to developing will countries take the lead from western countries on issues like this? yeah, that's true. um, we do have the african shuts when human and people's rights and the almost all country save for morocco, signatories for the surcharge, i think has been used on many occasions. for example, i know, sometime last year it is right and the applied to both of us teach us. and uh, you know, african countries go to that dentist that you know because of what was happening in

palestine and everything. so i believe that africa as a continent has to the file in the past, we've had that number of cases and i think, uh, my brother just mentioned the case of so that in some cases, african countries i've felt about the icbc has been extremely hard on that, but even so i would african countries off for countries have continued to abide by, you know, what has been agreed at the international level. and we quite strongly believe that there is made for us to have international standards because we o, you know, human beings and there must be some form of, uh, you know, bringing people together as you might need may when individual countries withdrawing when individual countries, things that you know, they cannot be monitored or they cannot abide by what has been that grid at the international level. that's when we begin to losing you. there's enough freaking commission on too many people's rights. how challenging is its work?

i think the conclusion on human and people's rights has tried to do himself. and in many cases we've seen them, you know, looking up at cases that we think the continent that are very important, you know, the displacement of individuals based douglas' niece of africa. i never done one big time and this is why we are very, very discouraged about what is happening. i think so much the level because we know most of the times when you leave the individual states to address issues at the local level. and then you know, countries particularly within the week of the been, you know, abuse even bell on low call the constitution and laws and all that. then that brings us to that international, strongly diving t. that's we can then for people to apply international standards because we know when we apply them, surely as my brother said, that very many double standards. so when we see that, those countries that have led in the past, you know, in terms of ensuring that there isn't national equivalence of course,

old days we have standards, we have 5, he was, you know, when those countries, particularly into waste bins, always cool or actually take away the powers are biggest international institutions . well then it becomes extremely painful, particularly for african countries. that's why we need to insist that to, you know, communities whereby the people allow me to sign up and onto the government to apply these international expenditure. expect to see how many times we expect to see our ups. my brother told me lisa, and all the african people must know supposed to be a government to apply these international standards. because that's the only way we can make sure we have financing across the what. okay jeffrey, the munich security conference, i guess column all the i must achieve said we're a 1930 scenario. nope, post 1948 will post 1989. all we know

that is very different data. you have him to the elected democratic play by the government, people preparing to take who but many countries today we have elected democratic clips seems by the people of russia in this way. you know, i'm not really clear on them just and you go over a gauge ukraine, which is already who will dismember about how familiar people. so when you have someone as weak as larry may have a screenshot to see, to see in the secure sheet codes. yeah, so united name the h t o n. okay. i mean it's possible to reform the security council that is all right. some dates is suggesting,

but they will know america will not be box. all right jeffrey. so i'm a risk guy came in 196. thanks jeffrey tom, back time against me. unfortunately, but most as, why do you, you can just kind of mazda comments, all we in a 19 thirty's, a scenario i know about the very sort of your weight, your p and way of looking at it. but you see is like that, i think right now your does it as a weak pulling to europe and toyota of getting union and especially on the drum administration. and we would see housing negotiation was russia will go on, but you would have need to stand up and the to have a i wanted to play into a little bit of politics. and i have seen over the last few weeks, some mobility happening in process. i'm going to be on a copy those and the statement there to just explain how is this moment this important for europe to depend on itself and also to stand,

to defend the month to let that needs to cushions and to be fine. uh, its rule is a little bit of politics. without that, i think it will be at the end of the electronics, but also we have to be realistic of the effect of domestic politics and you'll be and you'll be in companies. so i'm going to be in government are very supportive to this international project visit. that is a case with you today also and increasing the threat of a new uh term basis. and you know, that big bought a mini, it'll be under government. right. maybe at the shop for a day it'll be and project over as a short or make a okay and site. and then just lastly with you, if we're heading from the sort of us lead unipolar a era to a more multi polar wall kind of africa look after the human rights needs of the confidence on its own. even the weight of the support from, you know, euro for another country. but also if we strengthen down for time,

the commission and restraints and the human and people's rights commission, i believe we can do that. but just twice or the other question, i think compared to the 19 such as we know west situation, the water is now a global village, green one community and when internationally, those waterways get well the responsibility of providing lead issued by the outside during the international standards then we put the associate of very dire situation . so in terms of offering, i think we really think we can provide the necessary checks and balances required locally. but then again, we don't go, but i do not ask you. we are part of the global community and we need to see those standards being applied everywhere. otherwise we do have, he does always take advantage of the situation and say when they're about to face charges, where the communities want to check with them to the i. c, c, they then we control exciting as a power the postal withdrawing. so and yes we kind of released by then we also belong to the global community and we need to see the stand as

a blind wall. so that international. okay. other that's a great point. we have to leave it on his site and thank you very much. thanks to all of i guess to jeffrey robinson to motivated fee agree on the site and highlight on thank you to for watching. you can see the program again. any time by visiting our website, i'll just share a dot com for further discussion. go to a facebook page about facebook dot com forward slash h a inside story. you can also draw on the conversation on x. we all act h a inside story for me, but let's move on the whole scene here by the, the ceiling. the fact is very systematic and deliberate. destruction of causes we will to infrastructure has left more than 2000000 people in a state of color since from asking questions. what do you think will be the last thing? impacts on journal is reporting from the action when firefighters did arrive. there

wasn't sufficient with an in depth coverage. it's a gathering of intention to speak to wisdom teeth this out as it was, teens on the ground. when you closer to the heart of the story, a pod, his aim interviews could be interm, had for 4 years, which is pretty much of an actual times. now i didn't say that that that will be for 40 years facing realities. what does donald trump's re election mean pretty tough. it is most important that we focus on how to work with president trump thought provoking on self. and your wife is dealing with the climate crisis is a crisis of crisis times, but so it's not just one price isn't via the story on talk to how does era the

limit to how far a dream continue to study in your own adventure. now, counter arranged, as china ramps up to potations. if north korean defects is human rights groups say they face imprisonment, torture and even death in the country. in desperation, some involve dangerous journey. 101 east reveals north korea's plane defectors on al jazeera young women with a passion for space. so i used to change about working in the school sound like not sound good enough. so that's a small step of science jointly for women kind and cub installing the potomac, listed in high and as a scheduled time, the satellite could be sensitive space. women make science space school episode 5 on out to 0.

the, [000:00:00;00] the you're watching the news, our life from a headquarters and del, find a navigator coming up in the next 60 minutes. how about us names? the 3 is really kept us housing. dogs will have to be released on saturday in return. israel is expected to release 369 promising in prisoners and the chinese building life on top of graves, palestinians return to destruction in northern gaza and are forced to camp wherever they find flat grounds. for london, backed and 23 rebels, enter the key city of chicago,