for calculated strategies to dillman this, across the continent, they provide security and they take uranium, they provide security and we take time and rushes shadow and africa on which is 0. is anyone bought about human rights any more from israel? osborne gauze at the conflict in sudan, the democratic republic of congo, me in law and elsewhere. activists say it's never been hot to protect the vulnerable. donald trump's transactional approach to international relations is also challenging traditional diplomacy. so how do you keep human rights on the agenda? this is inside, still the hello welcome to the program. and it's the global institutions meant to safe. got

a rules based on respect for international law or in powell. i'm gonna stay internationally. so raising the alarm, saying the system is failing, and the whole notion of universal human rights might be on the threat. this time around donald trump has made it clear he intends to write his own rules, leaving the rest of the world on shore, where it stands. late as a gathering munich security conference, well, discuss the most stubborn ongoing conflicts. is the idea of mutually agreed rights and wrongs becoming irrelevant. what does trumps america 1st agenda mean for the future of all international institutions? we'll get to those questions in a moment, but 1st this report by michael apple. i we haven't asked you this bank yet. place since donald trump's return to the white house, it's been one executive holder after another. he's flashing federal jobs withdrawing the us from numerous agreements and international organizations,

closing down agencies and even declaring war on paper straws. we're going back to plastic. so as these things don't work, transactions or challenging traditional alliances and shattering international norms, thank you very much. is repeated, sanctioning of the international criminal court. only assign those things to come? says amnesty international. even if people don't try zip, full values, rise up for your for your interest because you will be next. we all wouldn't be next. let's make it very clear. this is just the beginning of a process that's 62 and the late. what's left of the 1940 a 12 door will lead is, are in germany at the munich security conference, where discussions will interrogate the state of the international order. was in gauze, ukraine, sudan,

democratic republic of congo. me in my visa, just some of the crises, international institutions and the united nations security council have struggled to make any headway in resolving there's been a tax on human dignity and human rights across the board. us and the leader of the world super paula doubling down on his intention to own gauze and permanently resettle more than 2000000 palestinians. you can live in gaza right now. it's up to the, to point it to the will crime to, for some people out of their, uh, places. uh, and it could be a crimes against too many t. t t's a well organized it's internet should amongst 2 twins in this and the list says prompts comments have set the tone for his 2nd turning office. it's quite clear from earlier statements from the trumpet ministration. that's this administration does not believe in the weights the relevance of international law. and this

particular proposal because here the will be foundation off a number of university great rules. multilateralism and traditional alliances are being tested in the munich security conference. could be a reminder of the fragility of the global load and the weakness of the international institutions meant to reinforce mike level l g 0 for inside store. so that's bringing august. joining us from melbourne, australia is jeffrey robertson, the human rights buyer, as to unfold the united nations war crimes judge in doha, is motorized llc. agree the vice president of your med rights, a network of human rights organizations based in the your a mediterranean region, and not robust site in hollywood, a human rights lawyer at executive director of focal africa,

network of human rights activists and leaders across africa. welcome to you, old jeffrey robinson. i'll, i'll start with you. how precarious is the liberal international order? but many countries more or less subscribed to. it's under great pressure, the induced cause, it's new from united nations security council of the united nations is, was please right. you have a should 5 country is with a veto united states the to say, reaction about his route and pressure wages and reaction tries to bring peace to you. crazy more. so there are 20 on on 6 getting on the world. and the lawsuit nice is berry considerable. i'm the united nations campbell do and using the

box because we do the walk is likely to happen. crane this piece towards the truck ministration. these hostile the nation, just the way the painted crowd, colorado steps to ban. i'm c. c. international court judge is prosecutors from intriguing america, or even if they entered in order to record to 90 mentions. so you have actively hostile countries who are prepared to rip off the international world war to say, what am the possibly rush it was. but it has moved up to united nations job in beijing. and they have, he's in his credit room

a united nations. and so, okay, it's a leak out from that point we must come up with other ways of searching, meaningful human rights. well, the most, as jefferson touched that on, on the weakness of the, of the us. and then it's an ability to really enforce human right. respect for human rights and the us doesn't want to be the guardian of this in the liberal international order anymore. so. so who will notice that when we have to consider that zip balls, toilet war 2 institutional arrangement that tries to buy, sit back, which continue with us. but over the last few years, it out, of course, in you, what do you intend to particularly use or just governments that used to support somehow support human rights in international relations. dr. to change your position? is this international human rights of the gene, an owner,

for it to work you need to engine as the engine usually is a forces which you can support to get a game and make it more coherent and make, make it functional. but we haven't been noticing over the last decade, that is, it is a he had a problem with and so which 10 seer was all right, rise of the right wing with the united states, a host i'd like to just word international institutions. so all of that to the present in an incident to the and so i'm going to be t as a function of the, of this. and the last thing he wanted to, she had a 100 counsellor at most. it is, this is what i'm going to say actually existed, the gym continued to provide the space for activism, for people to convey that fully voice is i think we need to back to basics. and here, i mean by the basics that to human rights activists need to continue at conveying to the public why human rights values are read events. and why do we need it to day

motors at any time before? and this is actually, it requires some of the patient is effective and destructive of activism for, for the gates. you might have to organizational. busy because mainly on advocacy was big blue months on government and on the assumptions that the government will put when. yeah, pretty sure government, the government to achieve break through and humanize 2 days this, this system may not work like that. so you might have to activate, need also to move to more mobilization to the in larger it's uh, 2320 and to focus on the different forces and different symptoms of a lot of even outsides that was done is few. so okay, without of the changes that the additional advocacy work may not achieve the same result is that we used to see since the late 19 seventies are saying you've said that you sort of failed pain, shall blow back more and africa from human rights violations. when that committed

elsewhere, nevermind in africa. why is that? why do you feel it more that i think uh, as a, as a continent uh for, for the kids we have been on the receiving end. particularly if you look to, for instance, the one published by, you know, it's communities in africa, communities in different countries, within the continent. that's how high to like, you know, at the front of the migration, the way they seem to be changed. whether it's uh, you know, people coming in from other parts of the world to, to set to here. whether it's uh, you know, or say and of being taken out, the munition startled like minerals that need to get out of africa to somehow find some of this was if you look at what's happening in ukraine, for example, we had such a rustic economic impact in africa because of the war in ukraine. so either continental, you have a condition that need a beating the bearing the brunt. i mean, you know, some of the set of rules and for us it's a very,

very dangerous pressure times the real estate team. we have basically seen an open and clear front to international law, and for that we're seeing an upfront to international standards of human rights and justice. and this is the, you know, for us as africa, extremely warning, because we are now the magic continent and we are supposed to come in now and to try and ensure that we are able to also have a voice of that international. i ran that the international stage, but then right now we're seeing particularly there were some forces coming in this month. you know, these international instruments, these international institutions. and for us, these, these extremes, externally watering, because we know we wouldn't be able to products at the end of the day. or a jeffrey, you written about trumps a tax on the international criminal court. and it's on it's a judge is particularly acute in recent months. is the court thought very court

existence at risk now? existences known risk? $179.00 country, so called out of state 19 reply to trump's episode sanctioning stop. every judge is a prosecutor from coming to new york to hold to the united nation and seizing any money. let's say it happened to have and stopping the assistants as me, given from time to time by the united states with investigations was the prosecution of coaches in which he's partly and reliant on c. i a material uh this will not be available in great as the great maintenance fact. beneficiary of mr. trump sanctions of the i. c e is vladimir.

so it seems to me that this is just a continuation of a very strong screen in the republican party of american exceptionalism that goes back to jesse. so who was this? all right, we say that to who in the 19 seventy's us, but we call the bottom of the hey back, which is still in force, which gives the american president how to invade the never z if any americans use ever he is in the hey, so this hostility to international justice is the core we need to. so i think the may suffer a he is the american diploma. how can any american diplomatic be

taking so costly now with, with the problem as his goss and direct. and so americans haven't made a match to the quote to the international world order from euro, but onwards. sure. okay. it's chad in a way that they know we trust. just very quickly though, jeffrey, can i just pick up on a, you know, you say the quote is not a threat, but when the rest more and we're issued for benjamin netanyahu and the chief, the military, the, some european countries with fairly equivocal on whether they would you know, execute those warranties. netanyahu landed on in london, particularly europe in countries. the whole hosted for it was a, this is any piece of the black, obviously. and it was the geography as a south african cold rogue, a few years ago in relation to the c, v. each president,

we had an arrest warrant issued by the army, c. c. but it was the guarantee member states, man, because of a 123 states. the members isn't guys to see to arrest and the guy p. okay, comes with the incomes. but i think on the cold that was showed last week by them. all right, you are a t o state does indicate ok. reinstate set rate will support the i c. c. you're expecting this to track on most as a jeffrey is the same. so retains confidence in mid your ability the i c. c. how do you see the pressure that is under at the moment because of the arrest warrants, but netanyahu and other institutions like it, this is a pressure is uh,

unprecedented. but also at the at least take in perspective need to be given to international justice institution is this project is not all, isn't as a new one in 19 nineties, in the 20th century and towards the right time phone was a high days of international justice for the international giving that quote to stop listening, 2002 and right now is the 127. they stayed, but it is on the exam. and, and i think i'm and 17 situation, which is of course, unimportant and promising signed photos of what goes i see. but the oddity is, international justice is, is not to be seen in either the kind of politics. and this is very important to him . evaluating household work and how international injustice blood from work as well, but experience have been struggling for the case at to bring in between those 2 justice in before. even though i see, you know, is that you were attempts before

a quote or was the universe of eviction. it was not successful and even some you will be on the government amended just 0 that lows in order to that district. as of this quote, the bible hosting and the organization, now it is, it is unprecedented move the winds ices. he started really to look at the scene and situation and to really he's every sport. and again, this is what i the talk official disease is something unimaginable and few years ago today, it is a attitude, and it is expected that it will of quotes that are present the test tools. the international committee came up with all this would also be resisted. it is just go into them. so right now is that medicaid is ruled by a donor from who has a very hostile attitude towards the i see. but i think europe has had room for play here at to counterbalance as american influence on the quote. and even that little by itself is that he added the now is that many out of countries, most of the countries automotive state, but it is difficult. so it is also responsibility is to government the ends,

i mean, the least, the most advocate and sort of in sort of categories to support the support of the support of samples of justice. we are just the, even as a government in bins adhesion or somebody to be an institution. we should look just look at the wisdom, government and behave, but also how many things, adhesion a been a little bit of both of these projects that oxygen, that mode tests. but do you see any indication that governments in the middle east and north africa are stepping up to that to challenge use adjustments to take on? so i'm unfortunately because inconsistency and nobody's thunder is also come on ends and maybe it is done. most ethically, i've seen how out of government been ways adjust this into them in the for, in syria and even some, some government in south africa. so i was ever double supportive to the city enclosed in international court of justice. but you know, south africa also protect it to them at for them to i c. c. so, but it's done,

but it's everywhere. not just things though. is it, is it everywhere and do you want us defender are confronted with this reality, but it just helps the system work. busy it is not yet published on a consistent, the monarch, and this is that entities that we need to deal with as human rights activist. jose and you've got the african shots assigned, i think by every country on the continent that gives the african union the right to intervene in case of genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity. have you ever heard of a tried to do that and how much do developing will countries take the lead from western countries on issues like this? yeah, that's true. um, we do have the african shuts when human and people's rights and the almost all country, it's safe for morocco, signatories for the surcharge. i think has been used on many occasions. for example, i know, sometime last year it is right in the applied to both of us teach us. and uh, you know, african countries go to that gain a sense, you know,

because of what was happening in palestine and everything. so i believe that africa as a continent has to the file in the past, we've had the number of cases that i think of my brother just mentioned the case of so that in some cases, african countries i've felt about the icbc has been extremely hard on that, but even so i would african countries for countries have continued to abide by, you know, what has been agreed at the international level. and we quite strongly believe that there is made for us to have international standards because we o, you know, human beings and there must be some form of, uh, you know, bringing people together as you might need may when individual countries withdrawing when individual countries, things that you know, they cannot be monitored or they cannot abide by what has been that grid at the international level. that's when we begin losing you. there's enough freaking commission on too many people's rights. how challenging is its work?

i think the conclusion on human and people's rights has tried to do himself. and in many cases we've seen them, you know, looking up at cases that we think the continent that are very important, you know, the displacement of individuals based douglas' niece of africa. i never done one big time and this is why we are very, very this discouraged by what is happening. i think so much the level because we know most of the times when you leave the individual states to address issues at the local level. and then, you know, countries particularly within the past the been, you know, abuse even bell on low call the constitution and laws and all that. then that brings us to that international, strongly diving t. that's we can then force people to apply international standards because we know when we apply them, surely as my brother said, that very many double standards. so when we see that, those countries that have led in the past, you know, in terms of ensuring that there isn't national equivalence of course,

old days we have done that. you have 5. he was, you know, when those countries particularly into waste bins, always cool, or actually take away the powers are biggest international institutions. well then it becomes extremely painful, particularly for african countries. that's why we need to insist that to, you know, communities whereby the people allow me to sign up and onto the government to apply these international expenditure. expect to see how many times we expect to see our ups. my brother told me lisa, and all the african people must know supposed to be a government to apply these international standards. because that's the only way we can make sure we have financing across the what. okay, jeffrey, the munich security conference, i guess column all the i must achieve said, we're a 1930 scenario. nope, post 1948 will post 1989. all we know

that is very different data. you have him to the elected democratic play by the government, people preparing to take who but many countries today we have elected democratic clips seems by the people of russia in this way. you know, a really clear, awesome just and you go over a gauge ukraine, which is already who will dismember about how familiar people. so when you have someone, as we, as larry may have uh screenshot to see to see in the secure sheet codes. yeah. so united name the h t o n. okay. i mean it's possible to reform the security council that is all right. some dates is suggesting,

but they will know america will not keep box. all right, jeffrey on risk came in 196 thanks jeffrey. time back time against me, unfortunately, but most as, why do you, you can just kind of mazda comments, all we in a 19 thirty's, a scenario i know about the very sort of your weight, your p and way of looking at it. but you see is like that, i think right now your is, it is a weak up pulling to europe and digital opinion and especially on the from administration. and we would see housing negotiation was russia will go on, but you would have need to stand up and the to have a i wanted to play into a little bit of politics. and i have seen over the last few weeks, some mobility happening in process. i'm going to be on a copy those and the statement there to just explain how is this moment this important for europe to depend on itself and also to stand,

to defend the month to that that needs to cushions and to be fine. uh, its rule is a little bit of politics. without that, i think it will be at the end of the electronics, but also we have to be realistic of the effect of domestic politics and you'll be and you'll be in companies. so i'm going to be in government are very supportive to this international project visit that is basically today also and increasing the threat of a new uh term basis. and you know, that big bought a mini, it'll be under governmental right. maybe at the shop for a day it'll be and project over as a short or make a okay and site. and then just lastly with you, if we're heading from the sort of us lead unipolar a era to a more multi polar we. busy kind of africa look after the human rights needs of the confidence on its own, even the weight of the support from, you know, euro for another country. but also if we strengthen the free time,

the commission and restraints and the human and people's rights commission, i believe we can do that. but just twice or the other question, i think compared to the 19 such as we know west situation, the water is now a global village, green one community and when internationally, those waterways get well the responsibility of providing lead issued by the outside during the international standards then we put the associate of very dire situation . so in terms of offering, i think we really think we can provide the necessary checks and balances required locally. but then again, we don't go, but i do not ask you. we are part of the global community and we need to see those standards being applied everywhere. otherwise we do have, he does always take advantage of the situation and say when they're about to face charges, when you have communities want to check with them to the i c, c. they then we control exciting as a power the postal withdrawing. so and yes we kind of released by then we also belong to the global community and we need to see the stand as

a blind wall. so that international. okay. other that's a great point. we have to leave it on his site and thank you very much. thanks to all of i guess to jeffrey robinson to motivated fee agree on the site and highlight on thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website. i'll just share a dot com for further discussion. go to a facebook page about facebook dot com forward slash ha, inside story. your goal is to join the conversation on x. we are at a j inside story for me, but let's move on. the whole scene here by the, the pakistan has one of the highest instance mortality rates in the world. and women are, it's was to with one dying every hour due to pregnancy complications. 21 east meets the breed midwife fighting to save the lives of pakistani mothers and their babies

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