shows showing me mad the hospital with a live audience. here with conway home in london, i'll challenge from an kenyan politician kimani show on the his government's bonnet cracked down on protest as and its failure to address rampant corruption allows fullness to lung. can president run over it from a single, about a full out from the civil war and the, the bombing at the head coming soon from houses. is anyone bought about human rights anymore? from israel? osborne gauze at the conflict and saved on the democratic republic of congo. me in mon, elsewhere active sites never been hot to protect the drums. transactional approach to international relations is also challenging traditional diplomacy. so how do you keep human rights? so many agenda, this is inside still the

hello. welcome to the program. and it's the global institutions meant to safe got a rules based order and respect for international law or in powell, i'm gonna say internationally is raising the alarm, saying the system is failing. and the whole notion of universal human rights might be on the threat. this time around donald trump has made it clear he intends to write his own rules, leaving the rest of the world on shore where it stands, lead as a gathering munich security conference. well discuss the most stubborn ongoing conflicts. is the hi theater of mutually agreed rights and wrongs becoming irrelevant. what does trumps america 1st agenda mean for the future of all international institutions? we'll get to those questions in a moment, but 1st this report by michael apple or me i, we haven't asked you to speak yet, please. since donald trump's return to the white house,

so it's been one executive holder officer and other. he's flashing federal jobs withdrawing the us from numerous agreements and international organizations, closing down agencies and even declaring war on paper straws. we're going back to plastic. so as these things don't work, transactions or challenging traditional alliances and shattering international norms, thank you very much. is repeated, sanctioning of the international criminal court. only assign those things to come? says amnesty international. even if people don't try zip, full values, rise up for your for your interest because you will be next. we only wouldn't be next. let's make it very clear. this is just the beginning of a process that's 62 and the late. what's left of the 1940 a 12 door will lead is, are in germany at the munich security conference,

where discussions will interrogate the state of the international order. was in gaza, ukraine sudan, democratic republic of come to me in my visa, just some of the crises, international institutions. and the united nations security council have struggled to make any headway in resolving there's been a tax on human dignity and human rights across the board. and the leader of the world super paula doubling down on his intention to own gauze and permanently resettle more than 2000000 palestinians. you can live in gaza right now. it's up to the, to point it to the war crime to, for some people out of their places. and it could be a crimes against too many t, t t's a well organized if you internet should amongst 2 twins in this. and the list says prompts comments have set the tone for his 2nd turning office. it's quite clear

from earlier statements from the tropic ministration. that's this administration does not believe in the way it's the relevance of international law. and this particular proposal, because here the will be in violation of a number of university great rooms. multilateralism and traditional alliances are being tested in the munich security conference. could be a reminder of the fragility of the global load and the weakness of the international institutions meant to reinforce mike level l g 0 for inside story that's bringing our guests. joining us from melbourne, australia is jeffrey robertson, the human rights biased to unfold the united nations war crimes judge in doha is motorized lc gallery, the vice president of your med rights,

a network of human rights organizations based in the your a mediterranean region, and not robust site in hollywood, a human rights lawyer and executive director of vocal africa network of human rights activists and leaders across africa. welcome to you, old jeffrey robinson. i'll, i'll start with you. how precarious is the liberal international order? but many countries more or less subscribed to its under great pressure. the induced cause, it's due from united nations security council of the united nations is included stories, right? you have e should 5 country is with a veto. united states the, to the reaction allow who's traveled and russia wages and reactions and tries to bring peace to the new crazy more. so there are 20 on, on 6 going on in the world. and the lawsuit life

is very considerable. i'm the united nations cannot do and using the box because we do know what is likely to happen. crane is these tools for the companies ministration. these hostile to actually just as each way the painted crowd of purer steps to ban. i'm see, see, international crew court judge is prosecutors from increasing america, or even if they entered in order to record to 90 mentions. so you have actively hostile countries who prepared to rip up the international world war to say what and the possibly russian was,

but huge has moved up to united nation shop in beijing. and then he's in his credit room a united nations. and so, okay, it's a leak out from that point we must come up with all the way of searching, making cool associated with right well most as a general robust and touch that on, on the weakness of the, of the you. and then it's an ability to really enforce human right, respect for human rights. and the us doesn't want to be the god, you know, this in the liberal international order anymore. so, so who will notice that when we have to consider it, is that simple story door to institutional arrangement that tries to buy, sit back, which continue with us. but over the last few years, it out, of course, in you, what do you intend to particular, these are just governments that used to support somehow support human rights in

international division. i'm instructed to change your position. is this international human rights redeem in order for it to work you need to engine an engine, usually is a forces which you can support to get a game and make it more coherent and make, make it functional. but we haven't been noticing over the last decade, that is, it is a he had a problem with and so which 10 seer was all right, rise of the right wing. it was the united states, a hostile execute stewart, international institutions. so all of that to the present and the incident to the sustainability as a function of the 2 of this international human acts. as you have a 100 pounds remote us, it is. this is what i'm going to say actually existed, the gym continued to provide the space for activism, for people to convey that a fully voice is i think we need to back to basics. and here, i mean by the basics that to human rights activists need to continue at

conveying to the public why human rights values are really events and why we need it today. motors at any time before. and this is actually to quite have some of the patient is effective and destructive of activism folder for the gates. you might have to organization focused mainly on advocacy was big little months on government and on the assumptions that government will put when you're pretty sure government, the government to achieve break through and humanize 2 days this, this system may not work like that. so you might have to activate, need also to move to more mobilization to the enlarge and it's an app constituency. and to focus on the different forces and different symptoms of a lot of even outsides that was done is few. so okay, without packing of the changes that the additional advocacy work may not achieve

the same result is that we used to see since the late 19 seventy's. all right site . and you've said that you sort of feel a pain shall blow back more and africa from human rights violations when that committed elsewhere. never mind enough to go. why is that? why do you feel that more that i think uh, as a, as a continent. uh for, for the kids we have been on the receiving side and particularly if you look to, for instance, the one published by, you know, the, it's communities in africa, communities in different countries, within the continent. that's how high to like, you know, and get the front of the migration the we, whether it's an issue, whether it's uh, you know, people coming in from other parts of the world to, to settled here. whether it's uh, you know, for say, and of being taken out there, i, munitions, settled like minerals that need to get out of africa to somehow find some of this was if you look at what's happening in ukraine, for example, we had such a rustic economic impact in africa because of the war in ukraine. so either

continental, you have a condition that need a beating the bearing the brunt. i mean, no for, you know, some of the set of rules and for us it's a very, very dangerous presidents. the same thing. we have basically seen an open and clear front to international law, and for that we're seeing an upfront to international standards of human rights and justice. and this is the, you know, for us as africa, extremely warning because we, uh, now the magic continent and we are supposed to come in now and to try and ensure that we are able to also have a voice of that international. i ran that, that the international stage, but then right now we're seeing particularly there were some forces coming in this month. you know, these international instruments, these international institutions. and for us, these, these extremes, externally watering, because we know we wouldn't be able to products at the end of the day. or

a jeffrey, you written about trumps a tax on the international criminal court. and it's on it's a judge is particularly acute in recent months. is the court thought very court existence at risk now? existences known risk? $179.00 country, so called out from state 19 reply to trump's episode sanctioning stop. the re judge is a prosecutor from coming to new york to go to the united nation and seizing a money. let's say it happened to have and stopping. the assistants has be given from time to time by the united states with investigations was the prosecution of who to know when she's playing with i am tongue c i a material. so this will not be available in the great, the great man on fact,

beneficiary of mr. trump sanctions of the i. c e is vladimir. so it seems to me that this is just a continuation of a very strong street in the republican party. all american exception with it goes back to jesse. so who was this? all right, we say that to who in the 19 seventy's us, but we call the bottom of the hey back, which is totally false, which gives the very competitive power to invade the z. if any americans use m o c p is in the hey, so this a hostility to international justice is the crew are willing to so i think the

may suffer a. e is the american diploma. how can any american diplomatic be taking so costly now with, with the problem as is cost and direct. and so that americans haven't made much to quote, to the international world order from euro, but onwards show up. it's chad in a way that they know comp trust. just very quickly though, jeffrey, can i just pick up on, you know, you say the course not a threat, but when the rest more and where to shoot for benjamin netanyahu and the chief, the military, the, some european countries with fairly equivocal on whether they would you know, execute those warrens if netanyahu landed on it landed and particularly european countries, the whole hosted for it was a this is indeed the p. c. b flat,

obviously. and it was the she has a so called rogue a few years ago in relation to the c needs president. we had an arrest warrant issued by the honest to see that it was the guarantee of member states, maybe because of a 123 states. the members isn't guys to see to arrest and the guy p. okay, comes with him. it comes but i think on the cold that was show last week by the all right, you are a t o state does indicate that you are reinstate set. we will support the i. c. c. respecting this to the truck on most as a jeffrey the same, the retains confidence in the your ability the i c. c. how do you see the pressure

that it's under at the moment because of the arrest warrants, but not in yahoo and other institutions like it? or is it pressure is uh, unprecedented. but also at least take in perspective, need to be given to international justice institution is this project is not all, isn't is a new one. and 19 nineties, in the 20th century and towards the right time phone was a high days off, international justice, the international couldn't afford to stop listening. 2002. and right now is the $127.00, a state, but it is on the exam. and, and i think i'm and 17 situation, which is of course unimportant and promising sign photos of what goes i see. but the oddity is international justice is, is not to be seen in either the kind of politics. and this is very important to him evaluating how was a hold work and how international injustice blood from work as well. but experience had been struggling for the case at to bring the doors

to justice in before, even though i see it was a good way attempts before court was the universe as the restriction. it was not successful. and even some you will be on the government amended just 0 at laws in order to restrict as. ready this quote to buy this thing in the organization. now it is, it is unprecedented move who ins, itc started really to look at the scene and situation and to really he's every sport. and again, this is really the official jesus, something unimaginable and few years ago today, if there's any oddity and it is expected that it will of quotes that are present the test to the international community. but it's all, it's would also be resisted and it is just go into the inside. now that america is ruled by a donor from who has a very hostile attitude towards i see. but i think europe has had room for play here at to counterbalance as american influence on the quote. and even that little

by itself is that he had it now, is that many auto countries, most of countries, automotive state, but it is difficult. so is it is also a responsibility is to government, is that mean the least, the most advocate and sort of in sort of categories to support the support of the support accept goals of justice. we are just the, even as, as government and is that he's gonna order the public opinion is that he's gonna, we should look just look at the wisdom of the home and be hey, but also how many things that even a been a little bit of both of these projects that oxygen, that motorists, but do you see any indication that governments in the middle east and north africa are stepping up to that to challenge you should just like to take on? so unfortunately, because inconsistency and deputies, tundra is also come on ends and maybe just on those. i think i, we have seen how out of government built with a justice into them in the for, in syria and even some, some government, south africa selves of or double supportive to the city enclosed in international

court of justice. but you know, south africa also politically to then for them to i c. c. so, but it's done, but it's everywhere. not just is always, it is everywhere and you want us defender confronted with this reality, but it just helps the system work. busy it does not yet published on a consistent the monarch and this is that entities that we need to deal with as human rights activist. jose and you've got a african shots assigned, i think by every country on the continent that gives the african union the right to intervene in case of genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity. have you ever heard of a tried to do that and how much do developing will countries take the lead from western countries on issues like this? yeah, that's true. um, we do have the african shuts when human and people's rights and the almost all country to say for morocco, signatories truly. so try to think has been used for manual occasions. for example,

i know sometime last year is right. and the applied to both of us teach us and a, you know, african countries going to that dentist that you know because of what was happening in palestine and everything. so i believe that africa as a continent has to file in the past, we've had that number of cases and i think uh, my brother just mentioned the case of so that in some cases african countries, i've felt that the ac has been extremely hard on them. but even so, i would african countries for countries have continued. they have to abide by, you know, what has been agreed at the international level. and we quite strongly believe that there is made for us to have international standards because we o, you know, human beings and there must be some form of, uh, you know, bringing people together as you might need may when individual countries withdrawing when individual countries, things that you know,

they cannot be monitored or they cannot abide by what has been the grid at the international level. that's when we became losing you. there's enough freaking commission on to my new people's rights. how challenging is its work? i think the commission on human and people's rights has tried to do it yourself. and in many cases we've seen them, you know, looking up at cases that we think the continent that's very important. you know, the displacement of individuals based douglas myself because i've never done what the time. and this is why we are very, very this discouraged but what is happening at the international level. because we know most of the times when you leave the individual states to address issues at the local level. and then you know, countries particularly within the past have been, you know, abuse even bell on low call the constitution and laws and all that. then that brings us to that international, so the diving g that's we can then force people to apply international standards because we know when we apply them to a,

as my brother said that very many double standards. so when we see that, those countries that have led in the past, you know, in terms of ensuring that there isn't national equivalence, that of course, old days we have standards. we have 5, he was, you know, when those countries, particularly into waste bins, always full or actually take away the powers on the biggest international institutions. well then he becomes extremely painful, particularly for african countries. that's why we need to insist that you know, communities whereby the people allow me to sign up and the odd yeah, government to apply these international standards, expect to see how many times we expect to see our ups. my brother told me lisa, and all the african, the people must know supposed to be a government to apply these international standards because that's the only way we can make sure that we have financing across the what. okay, jeffrey, the munich security conference, i guess column all the i must achieve said we're

a 1930 scenario. nope, post 1948 will post 1989. all we know that is very different data. you have it to the elected democratic play by the government, people preparing to take who but many countries today we have elected democratic clips seems by the people of russia in this way, you know, a really clear, awesome just and you go over a gauge to crate which is already who will this man with about half a 1000000 people. so when you have someone as weak as larry may have a seen shot to see to see in the security codes. yeah,

so united name the h t o n. okay. i mean, it's possible to reform the security council that is or some states is suggesting, but they will know america and will not keep off or on jefferson on a risk give. i came in 196. thanks jeffrey tom, back time against me. unfortunately, about motels, why do you you got me, it's kind of mazda comments, all we in a 19 thirty's, a scenario i know about the very sort of your weight, your paying way of looking at it. but you see is like that. ringback i think right now your is, it is a week of pulling to europe and toyota in union and especially on the from administration. and we would see housing negotiation was russia will go on, but you would have need to stand up and the to have a i wanted to play into a little bit of politics. and i have seen over the last few weeks,

some mobility happening in process. i'm going to be on a copy those and the statement there to just explain how is this moment this important for europe to depend on itself and also to spend the defendant month to let that needs to cushions and to be fine. uh, its rule is a little bit of politics. without that, i think it will be at the end of the electronics, but also we have to be realistic of the fact of domestic politics and you'll be and you'll be in companies. so i'm going to be in government are very supportive to this international project visit that is basically today. it's also an increasing effect of a new term based and you know, that big bought a mini, it'll be under governmental right. maybe at the shop that day it'll be and project over as a short or me to okay and site. and then just lastly with you before heading from the sort of us lead unipolar us era to a more multi polar wall kind of africa. look after the human rights needs of the

confidence on its own. i've been getting the support from, you know, euro for another country. but also if we strengthen down for coming to commission and re strengths and the human and people's rights commission, i believe we can do that. but just twice or the other question, i think compared to the 19 such as we know west situation, the water is now a global village, green one community. and when internationally, those water is good to have the responsibility of providing lead issued by the outside during the international standards, then we put to associate of very dire situation. so in terms of offering, i think we really think we can provide the necessary checks and balances required locally. but then again, we don't go but i do not ask you. we are part of the global community and we need to see those standards being applied everywhere. otherwise we do have, he does always take advantage of the situation and say when they're about to face charges, right? the, our communities want to check with them to the i, c,

c. then we control exciting as a power the postal withdrawing. so again, we can kind of do these by then we also belong to the global community, and we need to see the stand as a blind wall. so that international. okay, other that's a great point. we have to leave it on the same. thank you very much. thanks to all of i guess to jeffrey robinson to motivate will be great on the site and highlight on thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website. i'll just share adult calm of the further discussion, go to our facebook page about facebook dot com forward slash ha, inside story. your goal is to join the conversation on x. we are at a inside store for me, but it's me on the whole team here by the in connecting communities. what would you like to see happen for a new syria to emerge?

there's no way we could live in a country again where i see it is for displacement is part of our presence. opening up the conversation representation methods. we haven't had the best representation of african. so for us, it's about solving that put it to representation for our kids, with fresh perspectives from less or heard voices. the stream explores the key issues of our time on algebra, injustice for me is the driving force of why i do this to show people what it's like to live in places where injustice isn't something you read in. the news is something that happens to every single day, whether it's a war, a natural disaster, whether it's political corruption, making sure they understand. and this simple language is absolutely crucial. the cities already 50 percent evacuated, most of those people actually left in the early days of the world. i couldn't do this job without the best time remained best produces the best spaces. and those of

the people the i rely on in order to be able to get that message out to the well young women with a passion for space. so i used to fuse about working in the school kind of any like, not sound good enough. so that's a small step for science jointly for women kind and kind of stop me, but don't place it inside. and that's a scheduled time. the satellite could be sensitive to space women mix science space school episode 5 on out to 0. on the pair, this journey is taken by countless refugees fleeing danger. to many meet there. perhaps worse than death is the survivor. the syrian refugees seeking officers searches for disappeared. sister. my

may so a witness documentary on a just the 3 more is rarely captive is a set to be released from the gaza strip and exchange for $369.00 palestinian prisoners and detainees onto the sci fi day. and with this right off the bottom and this is elena 0, live from doha. so coming up, sleeping amongst the dead, israel's destruction of northern gauze, or has fills palestinians to find shelter any way they can, including.