that the system trapped simulation easy is it the level as all the ancient traditions pass down through generations may offer a valuable solution to this window homes to your rooms though. okay, it will show to him that he found his era exclusive persistence and ingenuity of helping the country to overcome a major challenge of its time. africa's new directions that goes of water. on al jazeera us president donald trump causes ukrainian counterpart, a lot of sleep successful comedian and a dictator. modem is that landscape, jesus trump, of living in the russian made this information space. so tell me the relationship. be safe, or does the lensky need a new strategy? this is inside story. the

hello again, i'm james bays. on tuesday, the president of ukraine was shot out of tools on the future of his country. and during the next 48, as a war of words erupt to the new us administration, reveal the stunning reversal of america's policy on the will in ukraine. trump launch the tirade against lensky, accusing him of misleading the us. about spending millions of dollars in a war that couldn't be won. he also blinds ukraine for starting the war despite the fact. it was russia that invaded framing the ukrainian president as the main obstacle to peace. trump claimed zalinski, his approval rating had plummeted to full percent. and won't he better move fast? he's not going to have a country left. all this adding to mounting concerning t, but trump's idea of ending the will is exactly what russian president vladimir putin has been hoping for. so is the oldest about what's best for you crying? oh, more a personal, don't think that's a dating back to trump's 1st time in office. we'll be discussing those questions

with i'll guess. but 1st, this report from alexandra buys a war of words between long time allies escalating over a week. the tensions between the american and ukrainian presidents 1st broke out on tuesday with donald trump declaring he had started the war in ukraine. despite the fact russia invaded, you should have never started it. you could have made a deal. i could have made a deal for ukraine that would have given him almost all of the land, everything, almost all of the land and no people would have been killed and no city would have been demolished. trump was making the comments shortly after the us and russia held their 1st high level talks in 3 years hosted by saudi arabia and aimed at ending the war. on wednesday, zelinski hit back criticising trump for spreading lies. so i said see, for unfortunately president trump, who we have great respectful as the leader of the american people on whom we

respect very much supports us constantly, but unfortunately lives in this disc. information space is a key. thank you. thank you for that comment led to trump launching his most spinning attack to dates on the ukrainian president in a long and scathing social media. post cues zelinski of talking to us and to spending $350000000000.00 to go into a war that couldn't be one. and he branded zelinski a dictator. despite him being elected in a landslide in 2019 elections, judged free and fair by international monitors. from double down on those comments later in florida, it dictated with that elections. so lensky better move fast or he's not going to have a country left. gotta move, gotta move fast cuz that was going in the wrong direction. in the meantime, were successfully negotiating and into the war with russia. the spiraling exchange

is fueling fears of an irreversible rift between the leaders. trump has previously spoken of his admiration for vladimir putin strength and blame to ukraine for allegations of russian collusion, the dog, his 1st us presidential victory. and all of this appears aimed at undermining. zelinski is credibility as a leader. and he's warranty, it would be very difficult for ukraine to survive. russia's continued onslaught without us support alexandra buyers out 0 for inside story the well, let's discuss all of this for the with august today. enjoying use in rochester, david k jumps and all 3 or 3 books on trump products. so when a and professor at rochester institute of technology, in this old off in the bows, zillow, co founder and research to german ukrainian think tank didn't nice. phillip showed a biographer of vladimir putin in

a form of foreign correspondent with the bbc sign to all 3 of you for joining us today on inside story. well, we're looking at this huge issue of ukraine again today. the way i want to run the discussion today is to look at the key players, the actions, the aims, and the motivations for that. let me start with you because you have the distinguished biographer. when you look at somebody like this, how important is it? not just to look at the policy positions, but the personality is i'm the temperaments of the key figures. i think in persons case, it's extremely important. he is patient, he's persistent. he doesn't give up once he's decided something. and i think we've seen this during the ukraine. more things did not go as he planned at the beginning . he kept package. uh and i think one of the key things is how long he wants to keep out it. because we talk about trunk, you know, wanting a deal. but for a deal you have to have 2 people. and the other person is scrooge in. how keen is

present to have a deal quickly. i think there are 2 elements pushing on the one hand once to keep trump in the game, is that what he wants to convince trump? so she actually will eventually do a deal. and at the same time, he would like to keep going because she, she tcs, that rusher in history you at least is, is winning. at the moment on the ground, russian troops are advancing and the more with a advance, the more progress he can make in practice. the best deal he's likely to get so he has to balance. david, let me ask you now about trump's aims and all of this. we know, i think by listening to what he said, his stay to dames, he wants to reduce all the money to us is paying to support ukraine. and he also says repeatedly wants to end the blood shed quite for them to stop the savage barbarism. but do you think those are all of trump saves no by no means whatsoever

. and the donald police were sending dollars to ukraine or not support for the wars and american jobs program. americans make the weapons and electronics that we've been give to ukraine. donald wants to nobel peace prize, he's very upset, but he didn't get it. and this is one of the ways he might achieve that. unfortunately, piece talks normally well, all the tardies and the talks and saudi arabia are between only 2 parties, russia and the united states, not ukraine. and then secondarily, donald, who was brought up with a monstrously horrible father. he is an empty vessel inside. he is always trying to fill the emptiness inside him, would flattery with money or claims of money, exaggerating things because of the way he was raised. and he really

believes that only donald trump can be president. in fact, he claimed a last friday tutorial, authority saying he can't do anything that would violate the law, but he's trying to save the country. and the white house put out a photo of him yesterday in which he was wearing a crown. of course, the united states was started as a revolution against the british monarch in a medium. and the thing is that donald trump is given out about how awful this is for the us, how much money ukraine is. go out. he says 350000000000. you look up the actual figures from the special inspector general. it's a 131100000000 and actually your up despite what trump says is giving more. and yet you have trump sending his treasury secretary to ukraine. one thing to take 50 percent of ukraine's minerals. how is that all of this seen in ukraine because i

put some commentators describing it as extortion or well, you can go and listening or like for a lot of ukrainian so it's feel like we woke up and to lick me. all zero's or the know don't look off or i any other, you know, until, until fan stories which were worrying about warning us about the such chase and fully politics to come. it's terrible because for someone it's a big lie for someone that it's uh, outside for political ratings, or would they have a desire for quick deals without looking into the essence or last such a deal for us? it's life. yes. for us ukrainians. this is pushing us to the back. when a sudden the, with the new president elected u. s. is not even neutral, u. s. is a more likely to take the position of the abuser of the aggressor of russia and

it's quite silvery. but luckily, unlike you up ukraine, i woke up quite some time ago. yes. for the rest of the world for an hour you were being partners. this is and you information that yes, the full of things can be this way. but alcohol, it takes us back. and there, there is no more uh, world of, i don't know, you can said they use a base or agreement base and so on and so forth. for us as you bring. and we are shocked. the situation is very, very serious. but we need to play with the cards we have. yes, our bed is may be already back to the wall, but we need to make the best out of the situation. okay, and it's kelly, i want to, i want to bring in david again because it's clear to me from the last 4 years that donald trump was in office in the 4 weeks he's been in office this time. but he

doesn't like ukraine and he doesn't like zelinski. can you drill down on that? because i mean, even if you go back to when he was supposed to elected in 2016, he was critical of ukraine. what does that mean? and it was cool. so part of his impeachment in 2019, tell us why he dislikes you crying so much because it seems evident the thoughts as well because ukraine is to vladimir putin in the area. the russia used to control and does no more and water recruiting has said clearly many times that he wants to essentially put back together the old soviet union. donald identifies with vladimir putin just as he does the dictators, kim and north korea. she in a china and others because donald doesn't really believe in democracy. he believes in power, and he's very transactional and blood work put in his brilliantly flattered him.

donald is very, very subject to flattery. and finally, donald doesn't know anything of it. i mean that quite seriously. he claims to be the world's greatest expert on $22.00 subjects. in fact, he didn't know what happened at per a harbor on december 7th, 1941. his chief of staff had to explain. he didn't know that finland does a country. he thought it was part of russia. he has no historical understanding. and it's one of the things in the nearly 40 years that i've known, donald spent many hours with him. that's always been striking. you see, people think he's some sort of genius, he's appallingly ignorant. so he looks at ukraine. latimer putting says that should be part of russia. he makes this false claim that rushes the mother country a 1000 years ago. she was a thriving city. moscow with some hudson in the woods and donald not knowing any of the history. he goes along with his fellow dictator vladimir put

of philip. i mean, are you surprised when you hear the comments from trump? because it seems that so many of these things as and then the sky is dictated. zalinski started it. these are all the russian talking points that we've heard for the last 3 years. and then now coming out of trump smells the road. that's true. but i think it's also something which it shows that the truck is not really concerned about ukraine. he doesn't regard it as a vital american interest. he wants to get out as a much as he wants to get out of afghanistan. and how he gets out ideas. i do think both is him too much, whether it's shining the gradients out to drive, which is, i'm afraid the home is says the what is going to happen, or whether it's pushing for us to some extent a more equitable agreement. let me just come in. that was one thing i think

disagree with is i disagree with strongly printing does not want to re constitute the soviet and kind of ukraine is a very special case for him. and you talk about key f, a having being a major city a 1000 years ago. yes. but it's also a, the old that history is for russians, a major product of their identity and not just for approaches. i remember back in the late 19 eighties when the saw the, you know, was breaking up. people saying russian saying to me, well, we don't mind if to the warranty or, i mean, you go, but you crate that question, that's part of our identity. so let's not under state the extent to which ukraine really is a special case. it's not the beginning of something bigger. it's something about which cruelty is obsessed. and if you look at what's happened so far,

we've only had 4 as of negotiations, but putin seems to have got a great deal already. he's going to get territorial, a great gains from these invasion. we don't quite know what they're going to be, but clearly is going to keep to treat you claims. not going to be a nato member. they started conversations not just on site should listening, but possibly historic economic opportunities rushes, diplomatic isolation has ended on these managed to split europe. i'm the us, i've been putting good into that for a better outcome. oh, well so, so far everything looks like we are playing according to the things work. indeed, but it's up to us now, how do we use this chance and how do we use the small this? unlike other countries, you are now and you create, we do not have a luxury opportunity to disappear. we do not have a luxury opportunities to re drum and i don't know, i'm pushing back with something the same uh,

aggressive as he talks to i know we need to transform this moment into action. i don't think any concrete. he feels cold peace plans from fulton or trump, rather than in some social media messages. so there is nothing to be discussed in the insect. and i just want to jump in to the previous speaker, but who talked about the ukraine, be a part of identity for russians. this is the part of history they want to steal from us. because without the they don't have their own thing for centuries. and they could, they could not claim that about being an empire, people to roam or whatever else and by they want to compare them with the ukraine is indeed the very important for them. and it brings us to the point that nothing show that's pushing says change. he's needed 3 goals in this war. so if one of the station about negotiations, peace agreements and so for even combination was he's

a blow, but success is on the field on the battlefield. it just the lease asked to do the same game as was mentioned to be she just wants the world to play this game. the fulton, is there ready to negotiate, then you grant for some reason is not ready to give up like you will take on that for that in terms of pollutants. a means puts in, i assume we now want this to move very, very fast as it is going his way. i'm not sure about that actually. um, if it's going his way, he may well want to, to drag it out to get more advantage. you know, as the russians are doing better on the battlefield, and obviously at the moment we're on the ukranian side must be very, very difficult because of that being they aren't being hung out to dry. that best ally is the most important ally is turning away from them. now, all that makes

a situation in which prevention the long he goes on pushing a miniature, the, the better position he may feel he's going to be in. so frankly, i don't expect these peaceful to going to lead anywhere in the next few days or a few weeks, a rather something within the next year. within the next year. i think that will be an an outcome. but i don't expect it to come to say, david, you are a trump, but what should i expect from what you're here? when you look so lensky, he tried diplomacy. he tried playing it calm. then last weekend up munich. you go to bit tough. and in recent hours, he's now says donald trump is living in his this information space. is that the right way to, to, to challenge trump o, o d. o, do you think that's going to get him anyway? well, i don't think she could get anywhere with donald trump. i don't think there's any

prospect of that whatsoever. and what she's hoping will happen is that the european countries, particularly poland, germany, the danes, the french in the english, will step up and help you, crane. and i disagree with solid, by the way a bottom are putting this on the record in numerous places saying that he wants, he thinks the worst thing that ever happened in the 20th century was the collapse of the soviet empire. and that he wants to bring back these countries. the world leads to the government leaders. i have interviewed in europe and family members. i have all say they expect if a farmer put in the succeeds and ukraine, the tanks are gonna roll into the baltic states. they're gonna roll into montalvo of uh, slovakia. uh not right away because the person has lost more than half his war material. and he's losing soldiers at the rate of $1500.00 depths per day. okay, david cable, that's all right. that ring very quickly. i'm seeing philip is disagreeing strongly

with you for that. it doesn't much so no, i think this is a pure propaganda spends. european leaders are indeed saying if we don't stop coaching, they do credit and then we're going to be next. but if you want tax payers, european tax pay is the public opinion to support a aid for ukraine. you have to give them a reason of the best reason you can get this a plastic. we don't support ukraine. we're going to be in the, in, in, in the target next. next, next time. it is propaganda, it's a spin and one sees now europe and lead is realizing that actually this, this whole war is going to turn out rather differently and not in the way they want that tremendous contortions in all the european capitals. how are we going to deal with this? because manufacturing unimportant, and of course,

philip the key european capital, whether watching this most is key. what is the lensky going to do? interestingly, of old people. but us, vice president j. d. vance has given his own advice. he said it's not a good day wait way to deal with president trump, of course the ukrainians. going to have that perspective, the way to surface that isn't a probably but discussion with american diplomats. he's attacking the only reason this country exist publicly, and it's this graceful. it's not something that's going to move trump. in fact, it's going to have the opposite effect in that. can you tell us your reaction to jag events giving advice and do you think that is the right advice? do you think is that a zalinski is actually just roiling trump and making things bus? i think this savanski is what you meant to say. uh, legitimate president of ukraine and he's trying to make the best of the situation without ceasing and dealing something directly without any security guarantees. us

is no, not giving us any guarantee is they plays a role piece making without actually which, which is not the both piece which about which is about do you what the deal guarantees of a piece. this is the most important question for you. k u. k. that's going to finish the war. believe me, this is what we want from the 2nd one. is it supposed to been test, which is what i know i get to what you're saying in it, but does he need to try something different? should zalinski in the next 24 hours, get on a plane, and go and speak to donald trump. should he reopen those negotiations on minerals and make it a transactional deal? i think because what he's doing right now seems to be making relations between the 2 man worse and worse, and that's not going to help you credit is it? i think what president and ask you should focus now is focused on you crate and present them top over just said that they will. he will eventually bring back that agreement on the euro on the table so it will come not from our side. we have our

red lines and disagreements. we would love to have american investment about. take your advice by, by some proper effect of security guarantees, right, protected. what do we need to do now? is i think closely corporate more was out. you were being partner because okay, this is the i thought i could bring you in david. do you think that zalinski should try something different, clearly is working with the europeans. is there anything he could do out of the box to change things? now, i don't see anything he can do with donald trump, that will change things because donald is to the point where he's spouting a russian propaganda like ukraine started the war that has no basis in fact. and so i, i just don't see any hope there. i think so when skis, principal hope would be to persuade the leaders of the major european countries to provide more military aid than they are providing now. and they're providing significant a but more and probably to appeal to the rest of the world by saying you're putting

succeeds. well, president g is going to continue. his expansion has plans to take over taiwan and various other pieces of land near china that we will see other dictators try similar moves if putting isn't stock, but okay. other than you have, it couldn't quickly on the pin on that, put on the point about what zalinski should do. do you see any clef? i move. i mean, china was mentioned should he reach out to china, for example, when, how um, you know, she and scrutinize it's going to be very difficult to divide them. and the great problem is all of your opinions in a position, do they have the capacity to step in? if, if america is not fair, i think that's a really big problem. and you want to choose me being people will accuse me of being very pessimistic. i just, i think this is a problem to which there is no real solution. is it c. lensky is backed into

a corner. i don't see any way in which he's going to be able to really, to change the situation wrong. david, i'm going to bring in what all the figure out, what all the current to in this, which shows that perhaps with donald trump, you can, you can have a successful outcome. and that's the host of this and re add the, the saudi crown prince. mom had been so mom he gets a lot of benefits out of oh, out of this, does he not? well, perhaps depending on how this goes, but i don't think the saudi sub position themselves as we're going to come up with the solution to this doesn't involve all of these parties. but it is that you hit the one area where i would tell you, i don't have a lot of defects for to use about the saudi government. yes, but i mean, you have expertise on trump, i'm just offering to host this may, may, may, may be maybe good news for the saudis, who were trying to get all those things,

for example, that very worried about the trump panel on casa, and this is a transactional presidential play one thing off with against the other warranty, were, were the salaries to offer to a, put a lot more money than the 2000000000 they already have with his son in law jerry crusher. that might well pick up donald's interest because of any mention of, of large sums of money. donald suddenly pays attention so, so they potentially could have an influence there. but beyond that, i don't, i simply don't know. david, thank you very much and thanks tool i guess today david k johnson. annabelle zillow and phillip schultz, remember we're here every day. and if you can't catch the program, when it's on television, we have a pod cost version or you can watch it online on our website whenever you want it out to 0. adult calm. if you have views, comments, even complaints, please post them on facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash a inside story, or find this on ex. look for at

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this discussion looked like? you know, right. wing and media circles again is for 50, is being labeled with the situation. the listening post decoding the media analysis era, the the one sammy's a. then this has been use live from dell coming up in the next 60 minutes. grief in israel as the bodies of full captives held him gauze and return home from us as they were killed by israeli strikes on this for a lot of crisis. and garza is, israel's will destroys most of the infrastructure including.