talk, what we do, and all just sarah is try to balance the stories, the good, the bad, the id, tell it as it was. and the people allow us into their lives, dignity into money. she asked me to tell the story. a us president donald trump, causes ukrainian counterpart, a motor slate successful comedian and a dictator. modem is the landscape. jesus trump, of living in the russian, made this information space. so tell me the relationship, be safe order. so lensky need a new strategy. this is inside storage. the hello again on james base on tuesday, the president of ukraine was shot out of tools on the future of his country. and

during the next 48 hours, a war of woods erupted, the new us administration revealed us standing with the soul of america's policy on the will in ukraine. trump knowledge, the tirade against the lensky, accusing him of misleading the us about spending millions of dollars in the war that couldn't be won. he also planned ukraine for starting the war, despite the fact. it was russia that invaded framing the ukrainian president as the main obstacle to peace. trump claimed zalinski, his approval rating had plummeted to full percent. and won't, he'd better move fast? he's not going to have a country left. all this adding to mounting concerning cheese, but trump's idea of ending the will is exactly what russian president vladimir putin has been hoping for. so is the oldest about what's best for you crying? oh, more a personal vendetta, dating back to trump's 1st term in office. we'll be discussing those questions with, i'll guess, but 1st, this report from alexandra buys, a war of words between long time allies escalating over

a week. the tensions between the american and ukrainian presidents 1st broke out on tuesday with donald trump declaring he had started the war and ukraine. despite the fact russia invaded, you should have never started it. you could have made a deal. i could have made a deal for ukraine that would have given them almost all of the land every day, almost all of the land, and no people would have been killed and no city would have been demolished. trump was making the comments shortly after the us and russia held their 1st high level talks in 3 years hosted by saudi arabia and aimed at ending the war. on wednesday, zalinski hit back criticising trump for spreading lies. so uh, to see if uh, unfortunately, president trump, who we have great respectful as the leader of the american people on whom we respect very much supports us constantly, but unfortunately, lives in this disc, information space is it keeps saying that comment led to trump launching his most

attract dates on the ukrainian president in a long and scathing social media, post cues zelinski of talking to us and to spending 350000000000 dollars to go into a war that couldn't be one. and he branded zelinski a dictator despite him being elected in a landslide in 2019 elections, judged free, and fair by international monitors. trump double down on those comments later in florida. it dictated with that elections. so lensky better move faster is not going to have a country left. gotta move, gotta move fast, cuz that was going in the wrong direction. in the meantime, were successfully negotiating and into the war with russia. the spiraling exchange is fueling fears of an irreversible rift between the leaders. trump has previously spoken of his admiration for vladimir putin strength and blame to ukraine for

allegations of russian collusion, the dog, his 1st us presidential victory. and all of this appears aimed at undermining zelinski is credibility as a leader. and he's warranty, it would be very difficult for ukraine to survive. russia's continued onslaught without us support alexandra buyers. alda 0 for inside story the well, let's discuss all of this for the with august today. enjoyed use in rochester, david k. johnson, all 3 or 3 books on trump products. so when a and professor at rochester institute of technology, in this old off in the bows, zillow, co founder and research to german ukrainian think tank didn't nice. phillip shows a biographer vladimir putin in a form of foreign correspondent with the bbc sign to all 3 of you for joining us today on inside story. well, we're looking at this huge issue of ukraine again today. the way i want to run the

discussion today is to look at the key players, the actions, the aims, and the motivation split. let me start with you because you have the distinguished biographer. when you look at somebody like this, how important is it? not just to look at the policy positions, but the personality is and the temperaments of the key figures. i think in person's case, it's extremely important. he is patient, he's persistent. he doesn't give up once he's decided something. and i think we've seen this during the ukraine. more things did not go as he planned at the beginning . he kept package and i think one of the key things is how long he wants to keep at it. because we talked about trunk, you know, wanting a deal. but for a deal you have to have 2 people. and the other person is scrooge. and how keen is present to have a deal quickly. i think there are 2 elements that routine on the one hand wants to

keep. trump in the game is sick. what he wants to convince trump, so she actually will eventually do a deal at the same time. he would like to keep going because she, she tcs, that a rush or an issue at least is, is winning. at the moment on the ground, russian troops are advancing and the more with a advance, the more progress he can make in practice. the best deal he's likely to get so he has to balance. david, let me ask you now about trump's aims and all of this. we know, i think by listening to what he said, his stay to dames, he wants to reduce all the money to us is paying to support ukraine. and he also says repeatedly wants to end the blood shed quite for them to stop the savage barbarism. but do you think those are all of trump saves no by no means whatsoever . and the donald police were sending dollars to ukraine or not support for the wars

and american jobs program. americans make the weapons and electronics that we've been give to ukraine. donald wants to nobel peace prize, he's very upset that he didn't get it. and this is one of the ways he might achieve that. unfortunately, piece talks normally well, all the tardies and the talks and saudi arabia are between only 2 parties, russia and the united states, not ukraine. and then secondarily, donald, who was brought up with a monstrously horrible father. he is an empty vessel inside. he is always trying to fill the emptiness inside him, would flattery with money or claims of money, exaggerating things because of the way he was raised. and she really believes that only donald trump can be president. in fact, he claimed

a last friday dick tutorial authority saying he can't do anything that would violate the law, but he's trying to save the country. and the white house put out a photo of him yesterday in which he was wearing a crown. of course, the united states was started as a revolution against the british monarch in a medium. and the thing is that donald trump is given out about how awful this is for the us, how much money ukraine is. go out. he says 350000000000. you look up the actual figures from the special inspector general. it's a 131100000000 and actually your up despite what trump says is giving more. and yet you have trump sending his treasury secretary to ukraine. wanting to take 50 percent of ukraine's minerals. how is that all of this seen in ukraine because i've had some commentators describing it as extortion. well you can go and listening

or like for a left, a few grand. yes. it's feel like we woke up and to lick, kneels, heroes or the know don't look off or i any other, you know, until, until fan stories, which we're worrying about. warning us about the such chase and fully politics to come. it's terrible because for someone it's a big lie for someone that it's uh, outside for political ratings or what the desire for quick deals without looking into the essence or last such a deal for us. it's like yes for us ukrainians. this is pushing us to the back. when a sudden the, with the new president elected u. s. is not even neutral, u. s. is a more likely to take the position of the fuser of the aggressor of russia, and it's quite filtering. but luckily, unlike you up ukraine woke up quite some time ago. yes. for the

rest of the world for our european partners. this is and you information that yes, the full of these can be this way. but alcohol, it takes us back. and there, there is no more uh, world of, i don't know, you can said they use a base or agreement base and so on and so forth. for us as you bring. and we are shocked. the situation is very, very serious. but we need to play with the cards we have. yes, i'll bet it may be already back to the wall, but we need to make the best out of the situation. okay, and it's kelly, i want to, i want to bring in david again because it's clear to me from the last 4 years that donald trump was in office in the 4 weeks he's been in office this time. but he doesn't like ukraine. he doesn't like zelinski, can you drill down on that? because, i mean, even if you go back to when he was supposed to elected in 2016,

he was critical of you cried. what is i mean? and it was cool. so part of his impeachment in 2019, tell us why he dislikes you crying so much because it seems evident to thoughts as well because ukraine is to vladimir putin in the area. the russia used to control and does no more and water recruiting has said clearly many times that he wants to essentially put back together the old soviet union. donald identifies with vladimir putin just as he does the dictators, kim and north korea. so she in a china and others because donald doesn't really believe in democracy, he believes in power. and he's very transactional and blood work put in his brilliantly flattered him. donald is very, very subject to flattery. and finally, donald doesn't know anything of it. i mean that quite seriously. he claims to be

the world's greatest expert on $22.00 subjects. in fact, he didn't know what happened at per a harbor on december 7th, 1941. his chief of staff had to explain. he didn't know that finland is a country, he thought it was part of russia. he has no historical understanding. and it's one of the things in the nearly 40 years that i've known, donald spent many hours with him. that's always been striking. you see, people think he's some sort of genius, he's appallingly ignorant. so he looks at ukraine. latimer putting says that should be part of russia. he makes this false claim that rushes the mother country a 1000 years ago. she was a thriving city. moscow with some hudson in the woods and donald not knowing any of the history. he goes along with his fellow dictator vladimir put of philip. i mean, are you surprised when you hear the comments from trump?

because it seems that so many of these things as a lensky is dictated. zalinski started it. these are all the russian talking points that we've heard for the last 3 years. and then now coming out of trump smells, well, that's true. but i think it's also something which sugar ever shows the truck is not really concerned about ukraine. he doesn't regard it as a vital american interest. he wants to get out of that much as he wants to get out of afghanistan. and how he gets out ideas. i do think both is him too much, whether it's shining the gradients out to drive, which is, i'm afraid the home is says the what is going to happen, or whether it's pushing for us to some extent a more equitable agreement. let me just come in. that was one thing i think disagree with is i disagree with strongly putting does not want to re constitute the soviet and part of ukraine is

a very special case for him. and you talk about kids having being a major city a 1000 years ago. yes. but it's also about all that history is for russians, a major profit, their identity and not just for pollutants. i remember back in the late 19 eighties, when the saw the, you know, was breaking up. people saying russian saying to me, well, we don't mind if to the warranty or, i mean, you go, but you crate that question, that's part of our identity. so this is not under state the extent to which ukraine really is a special case. it's not the beginning of something bigger. it's something about which cruelty is obsessed. and if you look at what's happened so far, we've only had 4 as of negotiations, but putin seems to have got a great deal already. he's going to get territorial, a great gains from these invasion. we don't quite know what they're going to be,

but clearly is going to keep to treat ukraine's not going to be a nato member. they've started conversations not just on site should listening, but possibly historic economic opportunities to russia's diplomatic isolation has ended. and these managed to split europe. i'm the us boots and couldn't have had for a better outcome. oh, well yeah, so far everything looks like we are playing according to the things work. indeed, but it's up to us now. how do we use this chance and how do we use the small this? unlike other countries, you are now and you create, we do not have a luxury opportunity to disappear. we did not have a luxury opportunity to, to re drum and i didn't know the answer, came back with something. the same of aggressive as he talks to, i know we need to transform this moment into action. i don't see any

concrete peaceful, cold peace plans from fulton or trump rather than in some social media messages. so there is nothing to be discussed in the insect. then i just want to jump in to the previous speaker, but who talked about the ukraine, be a part of identity for russian. this is the part of history they want to steal from us. because without the, they don't have the same percentages and they could, they cannot claim that stuff being an empire, people to roam or whatever else and by they want to compare them with the ukraine is indeed the very important for them. and it brings us to the point that nothing show that's pushing says change the military goals in before the end of the patient, about negotiation piece agreements. and so for even combination was he's a blow but success is on the field on the battlefield. it just the lease off to the same game as was mentioned today. he just wants the world to play this game.

the fulton is there ready to negotiate, then you grant, for some reason is not ready to give up a lot. you will take on that for that in terms of pollutants, a names put and i assume well now want this to move very, very fast as it's going his way. i'm not sure about that actually. um, if it's going his way, he may well want to, to drag it out to get more advantage. you know, as the russians are doing better on the battlefield. and obviously at the moment, barone on the ukrainian side must be very, very difficult because they're being, they are being hung out to dry. that best ally is the most important ally is turning away from them. now all that makes a situation in which pushing the long he goes on pushing a minute, surely the better position he may feel he's going to be in. so frankly,

i don't expect these peaceful to going to lead anywhere in the next few days or a few weeks, a rather something within the next year. within the next year. i think that will be an an outcome. but i don't expect it to come to say, david, you are a trump, but what you expect from what you're here. when you look at so let and ski he tried diplomacy. he tried playing it calm. then last weekend to munich, he got a bit tough and recent hours. he's now says donald trump is living in his this information space. is that the right way to, to, to challenge trump o, o d. o, do you think that's not going to get him anyway? well, i don't think he did get anywhere with donald trump. i don't think there's any prospect of that whatsoever. and what he's hoping will happen is that the european countries, particularly poland, germany, the deans, the french in the english,

will step up and help you, crane. and i disagree with philip, by the way, a bottom are putting this on the record in numerous places saying that he wants, he thinks the worst thing that ever happened in the 20th century was the collapse of the soviet empire. and that he wants to bring back these countries. the world leads to the government leaders. i have interviewed in europe and family members. i have all say they expect if a farmer put in the succeeds and ukraine, the tanks are going to roll into the baltic states. they're gonna roll into montalvo. uh uh, slovakia. uh not right away because the person has lost more than half his war material. and he's losing soldiers at the rate of $1500.00 depths per day. okay, david cable, that's all right. that ring very quickly. i'm seeing philip is disagreeing strongly with you for that. it doesn't much so no, i think this is a pure propaganda spends. european leaders are indeed saying if we don't stop

pushing, they do credit and then we're going to be next. but if you want tax payer's european tax pay is the public opinion to support a aid for ukraine. you have to give them a reason of the best reason you can get this a plus. we don't support ukraine. we're going to be in the, in, in, in the target next. next, next time. it is propaganda. it's a spin. and one sees now europe and lead is realizing that actually this, this whole war is going to turn out rather differently. i'm not saying the way they want the tremendous contortions in all the european capitals. how are we going to deal with this? because mander calling on the coast, philip the key european capital, where they're watching this most is key of what is the lensky going to do? interestingly, of old people, but us, vice president j. d. vance has given his own advice. he said it's not

a good day white way to deal with president trump, of course the ukrainians. going to have that perspective, the way to surface that isn't a probably but discussion with american diplomats. he's attacking the only reason this country exist publicly and it's disgraceful. it's not something that's going to move trump, in fact, it's going to have the opposite effect in that. can you tell us your reaction to check the balance giving advice and do you think that is the right advice? do you think is that a zalinski is actually just riling trump and making things bus? i think this savanski is what you meant to say, uh, legitimate president of ukraine, and he's trying to make the best of the situation without ceasing and dealing something directly without any security guarantees. us has no, not giving us any guarantee is they plays a role piece making without actually which, which is that the both piece which about which is about do you what the deal

guarantees of a piece. this is the most important question for you. great. u. k. that's going to finish the war. believe me, this is what we want from the 2nd one is it supposed have been said, we said look, i know i get to what you're saying in it, but does he need to try something different? should zalinski in the next 24 hours, get on a plane, and go and speak to donald trump. should he reopen those negotiations on minerals and make it a transactional deal? i think because what he's doing right now seems to be making relations between the 2 man worse and worse. and that's not going to help you crate. is it? i think, what is it into this should focus now is focused on you crate. and uh, president trump over just says that they will, he will eventually bring back that agreement on the euro on the table. so it will come not from our side. we have our red lines and disagreements. we would love to have american investment about take your advice by, by some proper effect of security guarantees, right, protected. what do we need to do now?

is i think closely corporate more was out. you would be partner because okay, this is the 2nd i thought i'd like to bring you in david. do you think that the zalinski should try something different clearly is working with the europeans? is there anything he could do out of the box to change things? now, i don't see anything he can do with donald trump, that will change things because donald is to the point where he's spouting a russian propaganda like ukraine started the war that has no basis in fact. and so i, i just don't see any hope there. i think so when skis, principal hope would be to persuade the leaders of the major european countries to provide more military aid them. they are providing now and they're providing significant a but more and probably to appeal to the rest of the world by saying you're putting succeeds. well, president g is going to continue. his expansion has plans to take over taiwan and various other pieces of land near china that we will see other dictators try

similar moves if putting isn't stock, but okay. other than just couldn't quickly want to bring the painting on that. put on the point about what zalinski should do. do you see any clap? i move. i mean, china was mentioned should he reach out to china for example, would help you know she and scrutinize it's going to be very difficult to divide them. and the great problem is all the europeans in a position do they have the capacity to step in? if, if america is not fair, i think that's a really big problem. and you're just me, being people will accuse me of being very pessimistic. i just, i think this is a problem to which there is no real solution. is that c lensky is backed into a corner. i don't see any way in which he's going to be able to really to change the situation wrong. david, i'm going to bring in one all the figure,

one of the character in this, which shows that perhaps with donald trump. you can, you can have a successful outcome. and that's the host of this and re add the, the saudi crown prince. mom had been so mom he gets a lot of benefits out of oh, out of this, does he not? well, perhaps depending on how this goes, but i don't think the saudi sub position themselves as we're going to come up with the solution to this doesn't involve all of these parties. but it is that you hit the one area where i would tell you, i don't have a lot of defects per teas about the saudi government. yes, but i mean you have expertise on trump, i'm just offering to host this may, may, may maybe, maybe good news for the saudis who were trying to get other things. for example, that very worried about the trump panel on cause. and this is a transactional president will play one thing off with against the other one key word word, the saudis, to offer to a, put

a lot more money than the 2000000000 they already have with his son in law jerry crusher. that might well pick up donald's interest because of any mention of, of large sums of money. donald suddenly pays attention so, so they potentially could have an influence there. but beyond that, i don't, i simply don't know. david, thank you very much and thanks tool i guess today david k johnson. annabelle zillow and philip, sure to remember, we're here every day and if you can catch the program, when it's on television, we have a pod cost version or you can watch it online on our website whenever you want it out to 0. don't. com. if you have views, comments, even complaints, please post them on facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash a j inside story or find this on x. look for at a inside story. i'll be back in this seat again next time until then for me, james space and the team here and the hawk. bye for now. the

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this is elders are. i'm getting you navigate over the check on your world headlines . israel's military says one of 4 bodies handed over by house on thursday did not belong to sherry, be boss israel's militarist as dna testing suggested. the body did not belong to any other captive. the bodies of siri bosses, children, fear and area will be boss, were confirmed to be among the for released from us has not yet commented on the claim. new to all day has more from jordan's capital. i'm on the captive these.