tv [untitled] February 25, 2025 10:30pm-11:00pm AST
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the age of 88, she was one of the great voices seventies rentals. looked back at her life on her career, the roberta flex luminous voice was the sound track of the 1970s. o, born in black mountain, north carolina, flexing hymns and spirituals as a girl. she studied voice and music at howard university in washington, and worked for a time as a teacher. she began her professional career with almost immediate success. for 1st of them included the single, the 1st time ever i saw your face, which became the biggest kid of 1972. with 6 weeks the top, the charts flack won a grammy for best album of the year. for next blockbuster came
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in 1973 winning a shower of awards and selling millions of records. it was flak at her best romantic, poetic, and poignant is worse, killing me. so killing me softly remains a classic, smooth, and sophisticated inflected with pop r and b. and flex training in classical music for 3rd and final number one hit was more up tempo and sexy. the killing me softly had a revival in the 1990s with a cover version by the q juice in 1999 slack performed the song for nelson mandela
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at his home. during a tour of south africa flak advocated for musical education for underprivileged children. she was a supporter of gay rights and work with the society for the prevention of cruelty to animals. she performed into her eighty's, roberta, flex music, brought enjoyment and romance to millions. she was said, always walk in the lights, and if you feel like you're not walking in it, you'll find rob reynolds, l g 0. okay, that's it from name on the inside you up today the
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or the a hi of steve clements and i have a question. can the us and russia in the ukraine were without europe or even ukraine? let's get to the bottom line. the 3 years into the war between ukraine and russia, or 11 years, depending on how you count this war, may actually be coming to an end, but not in a way that most folks expected us present. donald trump is telling the ukranian side that they never should have even started this war. and it's that great defense said that it's time to end the illusion that ukraine would become a member of nato, or go back to its pre war borders. at the munich security conference. european nations were told that their involvement was not needed,
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and they are shell shocked. now the us to started direct talks with moscow without key is to lay out a roadmap to end the fighting and ukraine. so is the trumpet ministration. rewriting the relationship between the united states in europe and is the old order just vanishing day by day to day, we're talking with melinda herring, a senior fellow at the atlantic council's eurasia center. she's just return from 10 days in ukraine and anatole, even director of the ration program at the quincy institute for responsible state crap. thank you both for joining us today. let me just start with the munich security conference. i was there in the middle of it. i sort of felt and saw the dynamics of a europe that said, wow, what just happened here? of course, we had great events, the vice president, united states, we had other major members, marco, ruby of the secretary of state, sending a signal that's very different that i've heard american leaders send and many people. melinda thought that this was neville chamberlain, all over again with a trump administration is essentially giving ukraine europe to russia and vladimir
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putting on a on a golden platter. but there are a lot of other people said, maybe donald trump's a mad genius. maybe there is something going on where he shaking off the global system so that europe is going to be stronger, more autonomous and a better player. i'm just interested in how you see this moment, steve. i think there's a plan there. i think judy vance or vice president went into munich with the plan to enrage the europeans. he didn't talk a lot about foreign policy any accuse, be europeans of hypocrisy. so europe is very awake and very angry as a result of the speech he gave this last week and it will, how do you see this moment? i mean, you've been in a way applauding, pete hex at the us secretary of defense for coming out in the public's publicly saying, hey, there's going to be no natal role in this. we're not gonna have us troops deployed in ukraine. sort of giving away the ending of the story before has been negotiated, but you applauded that. but how do you see the trump design right now and do you worry that it may create green lights for further aggression by russia?
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i didn't think that russia has either the capacity all the intention to go further than ukraine, ukraine, you know, as people have been writing quite accurate in many ways, is a particular russian obsession for a whole set of reasons and pollution ask obsession which certainly doesn't apply units people to the state. so i want um, in terms of giving things up in advance. i'm not sure that's true because you know, they're all realities you have to recognize. and also, you know, one has to keep in mind that the russians are winning slowly and very heavy costs, but they all winning time is on the side. so you needed something to unstick the whole process. but if i could just add on vance and your point, which i think has been taught to missed is which your and of course, which america because bands was also reaching out to the right wing in europe.
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i knew the very right way. well, by now, i mean, i mean i may say this carefully to the a f d in germany. right? yeah, said right, very, very right wing, which is they call it, you know, nazi proximate. and i think that's an exaggeration. but nonetheless, it is the way many people including re, le pen, sees it in france. she won't deal really pen, which is very, very depressed. basically believe that a, if the is gone over the line. so i just want to put this in the, in the, in the, in our, in our viewers understanding that amc has been considered and framed by many in the world as particularly repugnant of, of populace movement was yes. but then again, you know, it's, it's at some point down the line which is looking if you look at the whole passing of what's been happening in europe, highly probable, at some stage f, d forms, parts of the german government, as it's on the logs have those where you're gonna have to talk to them. and of course, as for the pen, there is a, i would say the olds must be strongly on a, one of our representatives becoming president of friends in 2027. and then of
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course you will have of north america against you. it was not the trump administration against the order. people actually have an idea, logical alignment between power off the list of the world united indeed. so benz has, i think, also looking, looking ahead here, but this is a, i mean, this is a symptom in the notion of the disappearance of the west, but of the disintegration of the west along the ideological lines. well, melinda, this is a really important, you know, issue and statement to, because of anatole is right. what is nato mean anymore, steve, it means that you're on its own and europe is preparing for that reality. nato is looking at adjusting its budgets. and we're, we don't know right now macro and called an emergency meeting in paris. and he got the heads of state together. and they took a lot of self ease. and are they wrong? their hands, but there's no actual output. and this is a problem there. the europeans are all over when it comes to ukraine. so the brits have said we would be willing to put boots on the ground. if there's in american
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counterpart, the americans are not in the polls. don't want to go in and so europe doesn't have it in the unit and they're not unanimous. and it will actually just wrote an article all in responsible stake, wrap them in to paraphrase that. be basically said that the, the paris convening of world leaders with essentially a lot of sounded fury signifying nothing. i mean, no, i think i got that right from you, but blended when you kind of get into it and you the fact that, you know, you're a call this emergency meeting in, in response to what happened to the trump administrations, you know, play and they're very you know, on the very front end of this leaving europe and ukraine, essentially out of the negotiations. right. but how is that beautiful inside europe at this moment? i think tremendously, a stressful in europe is freaking out, but all they're doing is talking. so you're a pass to call a real meeting and they need to decide, are we going to change our economies? are we going to put production lines into place? and steve, it's been 3 years. i and your readers should have a look at the keel institute. they keep a list of the difference between government commitments and then delivered military
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equipment to ukraine. and there's quite a gap, particularly with france and germany and a toll. you're an expert on, on global affairs and the history of relations with russia, et cetera. have you seen any negotiations like this, where you've got essentially 2 warning parties, ukraine, and, and russia and the united states and europe hope we have both been involved in this as have other nations, iran, north korea, etc. but it seems very interesting to me where the united states is the primary supplier of funding and armaments to ukraine, that ukraine itself, which has become, you know, essentially as a client of the united states is not at the table in the russian negotiations. but i think is the question of what's being discussed because, you know, you have to remember which people have too often forgotten. i think that for example, nature membership is not a question for you, craig. it's a question for the existing members of nato. each one has a visit, a veto of coal,
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so that by the united states. similarly, i mean us military supplies, deep writing exactly what the us will given future. and what, when those are questions that you crank questions to us. now of the other issues, which in which your crime will have to be involved down the line, just as when it comes to the reconstruction of ukraine and sanctions against russia . the european union we'll, uh, we'll have to be involved. but i think there is a, you know, a, a rational case for working some things out with, between american, russia 1st. if i only because the basic terms of the deal, i think must be that america will accommodate rushes. why does security concerns to seniors? and so pleasant about it, sort of the time. first thing in the pleasant way, i'm hearing you and it'll talk about it. i'm almost seduced by it. but donald trump is blaming the conflict on ukraine. listen to what donald trump said. i hear that,
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you know, there's upset about not having a seat. well, they've had a seat for 3 years. and a long time before that this could have been settled very easily. just a half a half baked negotiator could have settled this years ago without isaac, without the loss of much land, very little land without the loss of any lives in well without the loss of cities that are just laying on their sides to donald trump and a way of saying, hey, this could have been on before he blamed the invasion on ukrainians. it's a very different framing and saying, oh, we need to solve a few things for with russia 1st, and then come back to ukraine's equities. and this message comes blaming ukraine for this conflict and everything he said is flat out wrong. let me, let's go through and parse the statement rush. it began the war, not ukraine. he said that it would be easy. any have big negotiator could fix this . see, that's absolutely false. this is one of the most complicated wars right now. uh, 20 percent of ukraine is occupied by russia and then you have the crimea issue as
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well. you have 6000000 ukrainians living abroad. this is a very complicated problem. russia has nuclear weapons, we can talk about proxy. i mean, this is a serious, serious pro on, but i think what, what anna told miss. so with this format between moscow and washington is it's a massive change in u. s. foreign policy. so it has been the foreign policy of the united states for the last 30 years, that there will be nothing, no discussion about ukraine without ukraine of the room, for obvious historical reasons and be excluded ukraine. and they treated at the aggressor state, put in is a war criminal. he has kidnapped more than 20000 ukranian children. and they're treating him like a normal head of state. and they're saying, oh, let's get back to business. let's put in bassett, or is in each other's embassies. and let's pretend like none of this happened with that looks like where things are going up and it'll look nice on yahoo is a war criminal, but i wouldn't demand justice against and that's on yahoo! if this where to block a reasonable peace settlement between israel and palestine,
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you know, says lives also matter is vladimir putin willing to dance that dance with united states. and to give up his relationship was easing pain. who said to him that the china rush relationship is a relationship with out boundaries, but of course it has boundaries rusher is not going to fight for china. china is not going to fight for russia. china is driving. i mean, this is of cause one reason why the russians would be one to restore relations with europe. china is driving a very hard bog and with the russians when it comes to russian energy supply is because they think at the moment they were in the middle, you know, they are in a buyer's market. so i'm going to get russia to become an enemy of china, but i think the there are good grounds to hope, but this relationship can be weak. melinda, your recently in ukraine, i think you've just returned after 10 days there. what's the mood do they feel sold?
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out and they think this is game over for them, steve. i was there before munich and before president trump statements. so right. my observations are a few days old, but there's fierce determination. so i and out to har. tivo, blessed park. if it's the 2nd largest city in ukraine, and it's very close to the border and i met with troops. i met with volunteers and it's been 3 years, but people know that there's no alternative. and i asked a lot of people, why do you live so close to the russian border? and they told me over and over again. this is how we show our defiance. we are ukrainians, and we will stay here. so i saw a lot of determination. i also saw some things that were a reminder of what's at stake here, steve. i went out to zoom, zoom in 2022 was the, the city outside of harkey. both of us were over 440 bodies were found in mass graves by russian soldiers. and that was a, a reminder of what russia wants to do to ukraine, use our sort of underlying laying down
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a historical marker at that moment. that said, however rages, it would be to blame the victims in these, in these conflicts. and kind of here, donald trump, blaming the victims in the ukraine context. but just interested in, anatole, if you see it differently. um and, and to kind of unwind this not of narratives. how do you view it in a way that both sides can live with each other after it's done? because obviously, if we were to try to unwind, you'd have responsibility for the ukraine goals. while of course, acknowledging that the chief responsibility is, is boots, it, and springs aging. you know, we'd be here for a week. and then the origins of this are extremely complicated. and you know, there is a, there's some fault on those sites including america in the and the west. but i mean, funded lines. a analogy is completely full. it's due to the, the only issues involved in czechoslovakia and hungry. what were quite,
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quite different except one thing was the same, which is that the west led by the united states, so low as had great sympathy for the checks and hung guarantee and had of close indeed encourage the hung, gary adams in the revolution in 56 when not prepared to go to war with most domestic we, the west is these governments, the european governments, the bite and the ministration. i've said over and over again. we will not fight to defend ukraine. that by the way is what makes the idea of nathan membership. so, so empty it would, it, it, it would dissolve optical fault if, if you made a commitment to you crime that you have stated that you will not cheap. so we have to keep that in mind as you know, if we want to support a ukrainian hope of complete victory, which has been moved since the failure of the offensive in 2023. we'd have to go
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and fight for them ourselves. and we are not prepared to, i should say, that centered remark our senator, you know, secretary of state, marco rubio nonetheless. says that the goal of this is a sovereign, an independent and crane. so for those people, single fan is being sold out now, nonetheless, is keeping on the table that vision. now i'm not certain how much influence or power over the negotiations secretary of state rubio has, but that framing is still part of part of the picture. yes, but look, i mean, no, but she is talking as far as i'm aware in the trump administration of allowing the russians to march in to hod cuz left alone kit unit to change the ukranian government to, to take ukraine into the european union or whatever. i mean, what we're talking about is on uh, well, i think a bit like finished june of the um, lennox, we've been talking about at present 20 percent of ukraine, which would not be legally recognized as part of russia,
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which would simply remain under russia because the ukrainians. concrete. com, correct. now the risk is the way things are going. i mean, this is another reason why i think that actually, so the formulas autonomous regions doesn't know. the reason that the, the me was cypress, if you leave this territory on the russia because you called me concrete, but didn't recognize the international community, doesn't recognize that i know a china doesn't recognize it. india doesn't recognize it. but the, the point is, the reason why there is a case with speed is that if we leave this given the way things going on the battlefield, 6 months from now, it could be not 20 percent of ukraine's last. it could be 25 percent. you know, there is a risk series western miller family. so said that since the ukrainians could collapse completely. now at that point, you're looking at not too much of me to russian gains, but at present you're not talking about that right. so simply talking about the fact of ukrainians kind of re gain militarily the land that they've lost. sofa melinda. it all depends. steve, it depends on the kit and the troops that are given to ukraine. so he,
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he's right that the russians are winning and they are slowly but surely entering further and further west that that's a true statement that we're, i think we have a very of disagreement. real disagreement is about election. so what we thought in re i was a formula, steve, it's a cease fire agreement with a 20 percent stop the fighting at the next element is elections window hold elections and how do you do that in a legitimate way? and that's a huge problem because you have 6000000 ukrainians living abroad. do you hold elections in this 20 percent these for illegally occupied oh, boss of ukraine. what do you do with that territory? no single election expert that i can find says that it can be done legally. i interviewed the head of the central election commission and ukraine, and they laughed at me when i said, how do you, how do you organize something like this? and then the 3rd element is a formal cease fire. but steve, the real elephant in the room, and the issue we haven't talked about is not nato,
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because it looks like it's not on the table. but what's the alternative security agreement? how do we ensure that the russians will not come at you current again? and we don't have a good answer to that question. and if you wrote a book many years ago is ringing the period were, you know, invading afghanistan and rock after 911. and it was called america right or wrong and anatomy of american nationalism. and there's a line in that book that i quote over quoting you and, and, and basically said america was king of the hill and with kicking down its own hill . and how do you feel about this moment? has america been king of the hill still over this period of time? and are we continuing to kick down the hill or we building a new hill? i think you're building a new help. i think part of the explanation of all this is that, you know, trump does have a sense now that this is a multi, the walls and other countries, you know, just much more powerful than they was. so 2 years ago, i'm not, america must basically build its own hill, which it controls you know,
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completely and strength from that. as much as possible in a very, it must be said, crude 19th century way, you know, buying tired tree accompanied by threats. it'd probably not been real assets insisting on your in monroe doctrine sphere influence. but by the same token, perhaps, um, you know, uh, acknowledging that other great powers will do some of the same. the russians use the phrase monroe doctrine. so often you'd full inventive here. let me just ask you, you both. finally, you know in this i think when you're kind of looking at this part question, donald trump's support is surging right now. does that new nationalism of america, those new, the new social contract, whatever it will be between american, the rest of the world mean a band and in europe? no, it doesn't. so i just saw some new pulling before i came in. and even among republicans, there's still strong support for ukraine. so i think it's incumbent on those who support ukraine to make that message to margaret republicans. but if we try to talk
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about mazda republicans as one sort of soupy category, and it's not, there's a lot of different strains in it. and i think some of those strains can be convinced that us national interest matter in ukraine, us national interest matter in europe. and that we have to solve this because if it, this war goes on for a long time, it's going to have implications for us power abroad, that we are not going to like steve, i, i'm going to play it. i'm going to believe it's going to the garden pretty. i think there's a possibility that donald trump will get so annoyed at vladimir putin, that he could go in the opposite direction. i mean, this is one of the nice things about donald trump is he's so unpredictable. right now he's headed in a direction where he's giving the bird to, to europe. right. and it looks like it's as anatole described. but i can see a world in which he, to our audience just they know giving the burg means is the sorry little thing. yeah, sorry just because you medically so i can see a world in which donald trump says i've had enough of you. you
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a short little russian stooge. you, you, you want to, you want to screw with me and he can turn up the pressure on sanctions without issuing anybody any more orders. he calls treasury, it happens. he could of force, the confiscation of the $300000000000.00 in russian assets. he could really pressure the russians if he wanted to. and i'm not a big woman, but that is a play is what i'm looking at the scenarios that could happen. well, the animal is disagree. i mean, we have to see what the russians will demand and tools and what they're prepared to compromise on this unit. they stick by some of the things they've develop it uh that ukraine withdrawal from more territory, the presidency homes of that nature, withdrawal all its forces from eastern europe. that will be new to you. and yes, i mean from quick lube system. so we have to see, i mean, obviously other, you know, russian i'm list of said no, you know, if we, is there a danger just the final title. sorry. just a 2nd. is there
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a danger that this could be a neville chamberlain moment that that quote and reads the signals he gets from trump as permission to go further with in what he perceives to be his arena of influence. yeah, but it's similar to the interesting disconnect. uh because you said, is america going to abandon europe, right, and belinda, you replied, no, it's not going to abandon you crate. and now these are 2 different things, right? i actually said both and i will, i will put your credit in europe. i'm like you well, no, but the thing is, is fine. europe, as we've defined just in america, that means nato identifying for single seconds that america is going to have bands and they so within its existing borders, if only because they so is asked strip one, america needs the ramstein national space and the naples naval base. and then it kind of gives us ups, so america will continue to back need to, within this existing board is but i think the further expansion of nato that supports over yes or great discussion melinda herring,
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at the atlantic council in anatole, even at the quincy institute, really appreciate your candor and thank you both for being with us today. pleasure . thank you. so what's the bottom line? what is really clear at this moment? is it us president donald trump is we wiring americans? rules of engagement with the world is fundamentally altering alliances and changing the roster of who are friends and who are front of me is day by day. now trump is playing chests with other world leaders like seizing pink and white and recruiting, and he's using ukraine as a pawn in this trust match. and he's happy to sacrifice that pawn for greater goals . like what you ask? well, for one, if trump tilts america's affections more positively toward russia, then he might just be splitting russia against china, just like richard nixon did decades ago. back then the nation that america hug was china. that would very well could be russia. his critics would be saying he's giving a green light for russian conquests, but no one knows what the real outcomes for going to be. that's why every world
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leader is on edge at this moment. and they're hedging their bets. and that's the bottom line, the on counting the cost as donald trump's term, as policies begin to take shape. we took a look at that potential impact on american industry. consumers of the economy will increase inflation level of playing field portions of the rules of the global trading system. counting the cost on which is 0. how does the team from a smaller league drove the big crowd? why does the irish flag fly size discovery is club. what is it about celtics that has the world over sealing them all? all of texasfootball with, with the a pre estimate around the world. the defends,
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of the korean says it's agreed on a mineral steel with the united states, but there's no confirmation yet from washington. the main site is down to 09 from dough. so coming out, cold weather kills 6 palestinian children in dollars as well, refuses to allow mobile homes and this trend building a new future sierra wrap stuff. it's national donald conference. it's happening.
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