the next, like what does it look like in a world of increasing project as 5 women stand up to discrimination? i know why people have plus and i'm like no with no. this isn't us challenging stereotypes. seeing that head scarf as a source of strength, faith and identity. so we say we will need to get involved in because we are involved in the community. we just don't see it. my job. my choice, coming soon on al jazeera, the jail found a leader of the p k. k tools on the curtis group to dispense that follows for decades of fund team. a tech here, costing 40000 miles to was coming now. and what impacts could it have on so, okay, i'm the region. this is inside story. the

other there and welcome to the program. i'm the clock. there is no alternative to democracy in the pursuit and realization of a political system. a reasonable statement base would agree, but when those very woods come from the leader of a group that is for the bits of conflict for, for decades. well, it's world news and they were part of a statements. but at the atlanta founder and leader of the code has done work as ponti or p k. k issued from his jail cell in a prison on a tucker signed. and he's being behind boss, since he was abducted in kenya by tucker, special forces. just over 26 years ago. i man revered by his people but reviled by many and took a he now wants his group to lay down at toms and despond. his coolness of major regional political significance reverberating across not just took a but serious a rack and the wrong to so why now could it and decades of conflict? and what might the political implications for chuck a, b, and the region will discuss. so this and more with i guess,

but 1st this report from make assume shutting of culture and addicted to conflict that's claimed tens of thousands of lives up the level of children. the leader of the code is focused potty a p k. k says it's time for the group to lay down its arms and to spend. nothing of the statement was read by politicians from the protocol dish, people's equality and democracy party of to be visited him in a prison on an island in the sea of my motto of is steinberg. so you and he's the groups congress to rectify his deficient. lucky i put you on the big deb, that's the total all great. so you should laid down that um and the p k. k most dissolve itself. took as president jeff tire and other ones a party has called on the groups the heat or challenge calling the message of the p k. k is found to was created with celebrations in southeast and told key the

country's code to hop land the if what you learned beams this appropriate. we will it be him because this issue cannot be solved with weapons and force because we do not want to see blood on all those steps anymore. enough is enough. turkey and the p k. k, have been at war for more than 4 decades. but the talk is from industry attacking targets within the country and the neighboring iraq. and sylvia and colorado has designated the p k. k as a texas group, as has the us and it's best and allies. at least 40000 people have been killed in the conflict as the b k. m to establish an independent code, the state of the wind. recent times, the focus has been on the retail autonomy and rights for pets, of which helen has been serving a life sentence since 1999 of to being convicted of treason. and his school comes

months of to enter a suggested he could be drawn to parole. if the p k gave renounces violence and dispense a peace process between the p k k. and the token state collapse a decade ago. the group has since launched regular attacks in the country. some believe that will challenge called may bring historic changes was the, the on started the picture of the late that the curtis struggle for stripe and liberties wouldn't be given a more legitimate internal than it started really despite being in jail. a challenge remains a huge, the influential leader for many cuts. his coal for bees could have major implications for the region. by the p. k. k has flits and syria, iran and iraq, and his announcement was met with a pulse in syria co disposes whole significant touch trees. but what

instance of children has over them is not care. they come on the region. welcome of children statement saying this call is not directed at his forces. any uh, the issue is related to the p j. k. the issue of laying down arms and it has nothing to do with us and it's nothing directed at us and our forces. turkey is will with the p k. k has led to a sweeping crack down against pro kurdish parties in recent years. the to cause government has accused them of the links to the group for tenants called for peas is being seen the many as a challenge to reset ties, but others kept because of the outcome we'd be positive on the consumption, which is 0 for inside story. as well, this all started when the peak of a launch, a non insurgency against tech, a back in 1984. but as far as the zeros that presents in the neighboring region, no freights from mountain strongholds in northern iraq and is linked to the y p g

fight is in syria, a key ally of the united states. the p. k. k also has forces in iran. all right, let's get into this with, i guess, straight away in anger. we have um, a who's gainesville j, a non resident fellow at the atlantic council's middle east program director of tucker studies at the on the center for strategic studies. in colorado is a heavy, a senior fellow and geo politics, international security, and middle east studies at the role united services institute of defense and security. think time and in the united states in virginia, or indeed, my habits tyler, non resident senior fellow at the foreign policy research institute. here's what laws. the focus is on regional kurdish affairs. a very warm welcome to you. it is a big deal and date the story and actually highly i'd like to start with you for decades of almond struggle, 40000 killed. and now the prospect to pace. before we delve into the nitty gritty

of old is, could you just contextualize as far as just how much of a turning point in history could this be if the p k k and they do laid down their own? thank you for having me on the program. so i'm glad you said could because of course, there are multiple possibilities and potentiality is here. but in the event that this does actually leads to a genuine piece and the, the lang donna barnes by the p k. k. then i think the ramifications are quite significant, not simply for turkey, but also in syria, a somewhat in iraq as well. and i think that that's the, the key is through here over the past few months. there been a number of, frankly, seismic changes in the region and they were unrelated but will interact with each other in quite significant ways. so the fall of the said regime, for example, keeping in mind that for example, when it comes to the p, k, k, many of their leaders had saw a refuge in,

in this area under the said regime going back many, many years since i also learned himself was based out of syria and very. ready early on until the mid late ninety's, right. when you think about the coming to power of a president, trump in the united states, that has had an impact in terms of support for produce forces in north east syria. so there are a number of things that have happened over the past few months that i think it will come together. okay, well, we'll get into those things that shortly. i do have. busy short, we'll get into all these things shortly, but know how to sell it 1st. what does this mean at this moment if it goods of to 40 is this to, is this, the feats is this disappointment? is this dissolution. mental is this moments and moments of opportunity that the struggle of 40 years has yielded to really depends on who you are asking the but

the, the consensus among the majority of curves, the in the region is that uh, you know, this is the moment of the hope uh, maybe it is offering a glimmer of hope that the longest sending conflict that as you said, has claimed uh over 40000 lives so far across a period of uh for the case of conflict up and might be actually uh, coming to an end that houses are also, you know, given the complexity and complications of this situation, people are old. so treating this uh with quiet uh, you know, a significant amount of a skepticism. it is not that people are expecting. there is going to be a new sort of a quick and easy fix is the, this is definitely not going to be a straightforward, smooth, and leading air process, but will be most probably, even in the best case scenario, if uh, some sort of a, uh, you know of an agreement is actually going to be achieved and peace is going to be

realized. we're going to be witnessing ups and downs us throughout this process. and it's not going to, you know, be something that will happen in a matter of weeks or even months, probably. and a mile from your point of view, from where you're sitting and, and career from your perspective. uh, do you agree with that? that is not going to be a straightforward process that perhaps this is being greeted with skepticism skepticism too and took a so yes i'll use the to get is breaking out to see how to pick your kids. come, did you, this should be, where do we x and how to protect the serial branch? most of all could do with the way to this is the creation. however, we have done that. i knew was think this, the statement about a 100 on does not come out of nowhere because the 2 contractors and strategic has pushed this to happen in the past. in 2015. the key was function cooper, nebraska into cities in the southeast. so the 2 here, now the peak,

it has no operational cap of the 2 types of security level for introduced. se the peak case is per line of infiltration from you. walk into to get, has to be crushed the ticket and see some of the huge pressure with losing all of the code to know on the rest of the site to do freight service. so with all of these coming to get to the turkish concert has some stuff that he has a sheep quite a lot. and now the callback, la jolla then gets the opportunity to do p k, k and pull the cookies probably to get spill only together to get with of the terrorism aspect and to engage phone mean products. this is the may the thing that type. why do you hear the most? because even if the key doesn't they don't it's weapon. now we have the chance that the tool could, this is according to can pop this may dispense themselves from the p k. k. and it was technically it does. so it's a possibility that this might be right to kick it into 2 branches, documented quite the car link, and the movie as we speak, park might be green. well, if you could give me accepted the despond and discernment the sofa and said,

we have yet to see how the ticket keeps coming to the district. good way to this, but don't let me be clear. if this fades, the turkish made it to recount a 1000 equations with only be facilitated after this and took it has now to move and how you ground, much more than it has, it has a deep ever before. all right, which leads me ha ha to the quote that i read at the beginning of the program. there is no alternative if to democracy in a procedure and realization of a political system as well as one has said. and it's not something that he would have said back in the 19 eighties and nineties is nothing, not something he would have written today here. think that the channels of democratic politics on now a newly open so i'm not sure that it's about it being newly open as much as i think a pragmatic assessment of where the kurdish question actually is given everything

that your, your other guests have mentioned. and also, as i described, visa viewed the fall of the acid regime and frankly, a change in what remains of the rules based international. ready under which has of course become incredibly fragmented following russia's invasion of ukraine as well as of course, israel is more on gaza. i think that there's a recognition not simply within the b k k. but more generally, throughout the region, the look we're, we're not going to be able to count on external forces at all. we're going to have to rely on engaging within our own region in order to try to find solutions for particular problems. and i think that that's part of what's going on here. i think that the, i think the or chill on and probably the quite a few among the, the, the kurdish leadership more generally. because he wouldn't have done this simply on his own. i recognize that, you know, the,

the balance of power has definitely shift bids and in order to get the best possible outcome for their people for their cause. this is the way to go in the habit because we don't know if the p k. k will accept the system has to be reckoned ratified by the p k. k party congress does not. yes, absolutely. and that was also mentioned in the abdul load yolanda announcement. yes sir, the party leaders in the mountains can do a little racket. curtis, um, i have uh said over the past couple of weeks that while let you know, they will come this kind of initiative from the old yolanda and you know, the possibility of an agreement of a peace agreement between the old yolanda and the turkish government. above defaults, have been very much clear that uh, there has to be some sort of a uh, you know, legal and constitutional uh, solution to the uh, you know, a longstanding curtis conflict uh an issue in the country. in fact, a few days ago,

more odd career language, the one of the senior military commanders of the p k k. a. so do you know that there have to be also a steps addressing the faith of the groups fighters and leaders in the mountains. and you know that this was not the kind of group that would be um, you know, just the spot and that upon an order from college along that there need to be there needs to be practical steps agreed upon by all sides for this process to actually move forward in practice and you know that that is what also a lot of people have been pointing out basically since yesterday that as much as they or chill on the announcement is important is a historic and offers an opportunity for peace. this needs to be followed by uh, you know, practical steps on the ground in terms of, um, offering uh, you know, certain uh rides, uh to the curtis people in turkey in for writing these arrives inventory cuz costs

that you send. and also uh, you know, other important details such as, um, issuing an amnesty for the to take a flight or is on leaders. uh, facilitate team or allowing uh, you know, refuge for the part of the senior leadership in other countries. the in any, either in the region or in the west. so there are all these, the important details that, that need to be worked out on. so just looking at the announcement itself, i should not really, you know, give the impression that the piece has been achieved them. you know, that everything is going to fall into place automatically from here on. there is a lot in terms of the need to greet you of the process of an agreement between the, the p k k. and the more broadly the curtis movement in turkey and the turkish government that needs to be worked out. and i'm a, we've something we've already alluded to, how much do you think the changing dynamics in syria are affecting this?

yeah, i think so. yeah. it's a huge part of this because in the past the peak instructed us quite well, came out and see where they were. almost the grew close to establishing an ultimate sweden den northeast in the pre dawn. thank you. i'm up area which was quite the one that the tradition majority of the pgp try to step just what they try stuck on the wash. that's a protection and they trusted the americans support the trusted and payment for the desktop publishing and the one in reference. christ, now that you are new investing supplies on the adapt, russia is no longer adapted protected by p p k, k 2 in branch to y, p g and see if there is not on that desktop resume, that kind of name. but it appears that the top optimization but eventually also bit talk i'm serious with the patient is not the 1010 ship and the not sustainable. so that this is something that made me and i do not think that uploads and then posey this quote may result in a change of attitude probably to come

d the ship and the assuming branch of the p t k by his code can be used as an excuse for internal voices who think that despite that should not continue any more . i probably heard from the later the i still have to be saying that this does not apply to us or law. yes, it did say does, but she wants also to reach a deed with the muscles and so far the can be leadership was quite a game. so speed with the must was now with a large amounts calling his hands had been in power against his own support phase, who did not agree to proceed with that. my school said it's, there's a the between the stiff and that must cause this it, but also facilitate the post this in to get. but let me be k about one particular thing in the past and the piece process. we tried to negotiate to supplement between 2 can to predict k. as of now we don't have to negotiate to set them up to something similar to that. there will be no tit for tat. they wouldn't be, as i've said, no separate stage, no for the tournaments each. oh,

not even culture writes, especially in the book codes. but this is a government victory. and to get a basic, you know, put uploads or if he can succeed this, that he can get into how service and need to code this put, it's good movement in to get within the limits of to, to, to stomach and key. okay. i think, yeah, that's the see. i think the best thank you i'm, i was in the how much is, is that something that's going to be satisfactory to cuts across the region? because effectively what we're saying is that this is the end of the dream of a avenue independent cody state. sure, well, it is important to realize that the p k. k has the, you know, officially given up uh on demanding, i mean, defendant curtis of state in turkey does not even been asking for federalism up until recently. you know, it made the mass for some sort of autonomy. yeah. within the borders of the state of turkey. but the, it's also important to really realized that the origin lines message was quite

general. and in some ways also a cryptic which allows a lot of room for interpretation. it can be a stretch in terms of what it contains, what it implies, and what a, you know, things to achieve. and we have already seen signs of that. for example, you know, the 3rd case, a government and the ruling party officials in turkey have said that, um, oh jill ons, coal for disarmament and there's illusion of the p k. k should also include the sds, is also uh, you know, important to note here that the following the press conference or the event to yesterday were or july announcement was a read out. that the one of the damn party, which is the pro curtis part in $31.00 of their m p is the service already a on there. that or deal on had also told them verbally, that this announcement can not really, you know, be realized without

a democratic and legal framework to support that. and so there will be a lot of detail that has to be worked out then even though or jolanda in these announcement. uh, you know, said that the curves are no longer even asking for autonomy, which was, you know, sort of the bare minimum of the curtis, the minds a, at least up until recently. there is going to be a certain degree of resistance to that within the broader current aisha public and political move mine. so there has to be some sort of a trade off for otherwise this announcement would be, you know, practically nothing but just some announcement or declaration of surrender and calculation. and i doubt the given you know, the long history of the curtis issue, inter key which goes in a way beyond m d for the p k. you can tracy back to, to the late autumn and times event. and in particular, you know,

sense displacement of the 3rd category of probably given this a historical def, historical dimension. and the roots of this issue that neither of july nor the p k, k. really, or for that matter, if and you know, the curtis empties in the chart, this problem and we'll be in a position to say that they are going to accept all the conditions of the product. let's go over there in terms of that, does it lucian, of the p k. k. i, thanks mohammed for nothing. concret in return. really. right, well let's put that point to a hell. yeah. do you think that will, it will be possible to produce a satisfactory tradeoff between to k and the end the p k. k. that will enable because to continue with the dream of what's on them in some sense so that there are 2 things here that i think on part one of all possibilities are open. okay?

so you could see the, the, the p, k, k go forward to this, you can see it splits. and as you alluded to earlier, i don't see signs of that at the moment, but i think it's entirely possible. but i think that this and this is my 2nd point, there's a broader moment as a result of the fall of the acid regime and syria that i think is really sending ripple effects and not just the ne syria with the kurds. but more generally, it's a low um the, the conditions that allowed for this sort of armed struggle or this sort of fight within turkey and in the region more generally over what is considered to be a historical card. this done the, those conditions of fundamentally changed. and i think that when they see particularly as your other gus mentioned, the americans not being willing to support the c f in the northeast, syria when they see the uh, the, the, the empowering of

a new regime in damascus that is very clearly aligned with ankara in many ways, i think that they realize that there is a historic moments here and this one that they can try to take advantage of and salvage as much as they can, or one that they can fight against. and right now it seems that at least or to lot has chosen the former 6 ends um are as far as tech is concerned, what will uh, good ones position be on a p k, k affiliates say for example in northern syria, moving forwards now. so the tricks position is great, it took, you would not turn away, you have to be an autonomous region in syria, or to remain as a separate product with him to see. i mean it's when it's done, most of us would not accept this. and here we have done that stand as the from the speaker just it took, it has a stablish a new way you can reach different good. do to get as close. corporation become ask us would save you up to kissing good coronation ship and quote with the nation that the work he could this time. and you actually couldn't expect the support for the

genetics. cold. turkey has agreed with the iraqi government on the p k. k being a bent organization in the lock and key one has to be defeated tuchi and you want but one of the major support this of the p 2 k as what? so as this indicates, a ticket with enough to do it. that's a alternative. and po, separate entity within the army, that is only one grateful. and this is to this found this engage totally to key. and let's see here to key even though a test approach is spend the best them clicking the reason and look for them in this new atmosphere. if there is normal, the type of terrorism, there is no more the security aspect to the previous question. and to get, if there is no more the type of it to, to shut off the table includes politics into the society. i expect that the 2 people put it to this fabric open. not very much that the to cause even opened up pretty much. and we can be able to discuss many different things that i'm able to

discuss some things that i'm off of, that's a how to, to you at the agreement with the p k. k must include part of a laundry arrangement that includes equal status and, and the democratic rights of a tech is code is population. because if that doesn't happen at the very least, this could once again spill over into violence. couldn't. yeah, absolutely. i mean, uh, you know, it remains definitely to be seen what kind of details would be worth, uh, between both size uh, the kurdish uh, representatives and the turkish government. and uh, you know, whether, uh these kind of a discount of agreement or the points agreed upon would be actually given a legal and constitutional law legitimacy and framework. however, again, as i said before that you know where the p take a issue should be really seen as part of a dig around broader. uh, you know,

problem an issue in turkey. that goes back to the very origins of the target for republic. there is definitely a way forward in terms of a piece and that in terms of settling this conflict, it definitely depends on the uh, you know, good wheel and, uh, the, the understanding of the interest of both sides. but, you know, even though there has been, uh, conflict over the past several decades, or in the early republican era, between the curves on the charge of republic, the turkish government. that does not mean that, that has to be the, you know, the future, of course, of those relationships that there is a historical precedents which can be drawn upon cold upon in terms of charging and new passing term. okay. and i think, you know, as long as there is some serious good will. and if negotiations are being conducted in good faith on both sides by the, in particular,

uh on the side of the turkish government, given that it did the dominant party in this conflict, that there is a very good and decent chance for peace that he knows this may yet, harold, a new era of equitable peace, genuine, we're going to have to leave it there. thanks very much. indeed for joining us. i'm a risky little dick. ha, ha, i'm a how much self? thanks very much. indeed. i thought you tell you for watching 1st and all the story is recovering, just go to a website that out. is there a dot com? and if you want to take the discussion on guys, well facebook page, that's facebook dot com, forward slash a inside story. and of course, you can also join the conversation on x a handle is it's a side story for me, mccloud. and the whole team has. it's the box at the the

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