of a game, china is challenging labor market. china is unemployed. on algae 0. we don't simply focus on the politics of the conflict, is the human suffering that you report to us? we brave bullet and bond, and we always include the views from all sides. the jail found a leader of the p k. k tools on the curtis group to this fund that follows for decades of fund team a tech here coffee for 2009 to was, is coming out and what impacts could it have on? so okay, i'm the region. this is inside store the other there and welcome to the program i'm to clock. there is no alternative to democracy in the pursuit and realization of a political system. a reasonable statement based would agree. but when those very

woods come from the leader of a group that is for the bits a conflict for, for decades. well, it's world news and they were part of the statements that at the auckland founder and leader of the code is done. work is potty or p k. k issued from his jail cell in a prison on a tucker shine. and he's been behind boss since he was abducted in kenya by tucker, special forces to say about 26 years ago. a man revered by his people but reviled by many and took a he now wants his group to lay down at toms and despond. his coolness of major regional political significance reverberating across not just took a but serious a rack and around to. so why now could and decades of conflict, and what might the political implications for chuck a, b, and the region will discuss all this and more with, i guess, but 1st, this report from may close in charge of culture and addicted. so complex that's claims tens of thousands of lives up to low. a chill on the lead of the co

dish will cause potty a. p k. k says it's time for the group to lay down its arms and to spend. nothing of the statement was read out by politicians from the pro co dish. people's equality and democracy party of to be visited him in a prison on an island in the sea, of my motto of east, on booth. so you and he's of the groups congress to rectify his deficient look you up, i jog. you did that to be a total grade, so you should lay down that um and the p k. k must dissolve itself tucker's president jeff type of the once a tea party has called on the groups, the heat or challenge is called. the message of the p k. k is found to was created with celebrations in southeast, in toad key. the country's code to hop land. the default alarm deems this appropriate. we will it be him because this issue cannot be solved with

weapons and force because we do not want to see blood on all those steps anymore. enough is enough. turkey and the p k g a had been at war for more than 4 decades with the turkish ministry, attacking targets within the country. and the neighboring iraq. and sylvia and colorado has designated the p k. k as a texas group, as has the us and its best and allies. but at least 40000 people had been killed in the conflict. as the b k came to establish an independent code the state. although in recent times, the focus has been on retail tournament and rights for pets, which helen has been serving a life sentence since 1999 of to being convicted of treason. and his goal comes months of to uncover suggested he could be grown to purely, if the p k gave renounces violence and dispense to

a peace process between the p k k. and the toughest state collapse addicted to go. the group has since launch regular attacks in the country. some believe that will challenge called may bring historic changes. was that the i'm starting to develop a picture probably that the curtis struggle post, right? and remember, this will be given a more legitimate for internal and external really, despite being in china, a challenge remains a huge the influential leader for many cuts. his goal for b is, could have major implications for the region by the p. k. k has flits and syria, iran and iraq, and very his announcement was met with the products and syria co disposes whole significant touch trees. but what influence of children has over them is not care. they come on the region. welcome, trelin statesman saying the call is not directed at his forces in yeah,

the issue is related to the p j. k. the issue of laying down arms and it has nothing to do with us and it's nothing directed at us and our forces. turkey is will with the p k. k has led to a sweeping crack down against pro kurdish parties and resent us the to cause government has accused them of the links to the group. for tenants called for peas is being seen the many as a challenge to reset ties, but others, a skeptical the outcome may be positive on the consumption, which is 0 for inside starting as well. this all started when the peak a launch, a non insurgency against tech, a back in 1984. but it's forces urls that presents in the neighboring region. no freights from mountain strongholds in northern iraq and is linked to the y p g fight is in syria, a key ally of the united states. the p. k. k also has forces in iran.

all right, let's get into this with i guess straight away in anger. we have um a who's gainesville j. a non resident fellow at the atlantic council's middle east program director of tucker studies at the on run center for strategic studies in car. oh, it's a heavy yeah. see me, a fellow in geo politics, international security and middle east studies at the role united services institute of defense and security think tank and in the united states in virginia or indeed. and i haven't saw a non resident senior fellow at the foreign policy research institute. here's what laws. the focus is on regional kurdish affairs. a very warm welcome to you. it is a big deal and date the story and actually highly i'd like to start with you for decades of almond struggle for 2000 killed. and now the prospect to piece before we . busy move into the nitty gritty of all this. could you just contextualize as far as just how much of a turning point in history could this be if the p k k and they do laid down their

own? thank you for having me on the program. so i'm glad you said good because of course there are multiple possibilities and potentiality is here. but in the event that this does actually leads to a genuine piece and the, the laying down of ours by the p k. k. then i think the ramifications are quite significant, not simply for turkey, but also in syria, a somewhat in a rock as well. and i think that that's the, the key is true here over the past few months. there's been a number of, frankly, seismic changes in the region and they were unrelated but will interact with each other in quite significant ways. so the fall of the i said regime for example, keeping in mind that for example, when it comes to the p, k, k, many of their leaders had saw a refuge in, in syria under the said regime going back many, many years since i alter, learned himself was based out of syria and very. ready early on until the mid late

ninety's, right. when you think about the coming to power of uh, president trump, in the united states that has had an impact in terms of support for produce forces in north east syria. so there are a number of things that have happened over the past few months that i think it will come together. okay, well, we will get into those things that shortly. the short will get into all these things shortly, but i'm having a solid 1st. what does this mean at this moment because of to 40? is this to, is this the feats? is this disappointment? is this a dissolution? mental is this moments a moments of opportunity that the struggling to 40 years has yielded? it really depends on who you are asking, but the, the consensus among the majority of curves, the in the region is that uh, you know, this is a moment of hope. uh, maybe it is offering you a glimmer of hope that the longest sending conflict that as you said,

has claimed the over 40000 lives so far across a period of uh for the case of conflict. uh. and might be actually uh, coming to an end that houses are also, you know, given the complexity and complications of this situation, people are also treating this uh, with quiet uh, you know, a significant amount of a step. this is, um, it is not that people are expecting, there is going to be a new sort of a quick and easy fix is the, this is definitely not going to be a straightforward, smooth, and linear process, but will be most probably, even in the best case. scenario if uh, some sort of a, uh, you know, of an agreement is actually going to be achieved and peace is going to be realized . we are going to be witnessing ups and downs us throughout this process. and it's not going to, you know, be something that will happen in

a matter of weights. or even most, probably i am off from your point of view from where you're sitting and incorrect from your perspective. do you agree with that? that is not going to be a straightforward process that perhaps this is being greeted with skepticism skepticism, to kentucky or so yes, i'll use the to get it's breaking out to see how the kids come to do this should be where do we x and how to protect the serial branch, most of all could do with the way to this is the creation. however, we have done that on your wife. think this, this statement about a 100 on does not come out of nowhere because the took is competing strategy has pushed this to happen in the past in 2015. the key was function fullborne fire into cities in the southeast to kia. now the ticket has no police and a cap of the 2 types of security level for introduced. se the peak case is per line of infiltration from you. walk into to get, has to be crushed the ticket and see some of the huge pressure with losing all of

the code to know on the rest of the site to do freight zivare. so with all of these coming to get to the turkish contest, some stuff that he has achieved quite a lot. and now the callback leverage and then gets the opportunity to do p k, k. and for the cookies, probably to disappear altogether to get rid of the terrorism aspect and to engage on the products the system may the think that type of why do you hear the most? because even if the ticket key doesn't they don't it's weapon. now we have the chance that the tool could, this is a pretty good product. this may discounts themselves from the p k. k. and it was technically it does. so it's a possibility that this might be right to kick it into 2 branches, documented credit card, wink, and then more. ready yeah, did you speak a card from? i think we well, if you could give me accepted, would the despond and discernment the sofa itself? we have yet to see how the ticket keeps coming to the district. good way to this, but know it, let me be clear. if this phase, the turkish made it to

a counter terrorism equations would only be facilitated after this and took you has now the more and how you ground, much more than it has. it has a deep ever before. all right, which leads me ha ha to the quote that i read at the beginning of the program. there is no alternate of to democracy in a pursuit and realization of a political system as well as one has said. and it's not something that he would have said back in the 19 eighties and nineties is nothing is not something he would have written today. he would think that the channels of democratic politics on now a newly open so i'm not sure that it's about it being newly opened as much as i think a pragmatic assessment of where the kurdish question actually is, given everything that your, your other guests have mentioned and also, as i described, visa viewed the fall of the acid regime and frankly a change in my. busy remains of the rules based international. ready under which is

of course become incredibly fragmented following russia's invasion of ukraine as well as, of course, israel's more on gaza. i think that there's a recognition not simply within the b k k. but more generally, throughout the region, the look we're, we're not going to be able to count on external forces at all. we're going to have to rely on engaging within our own region in order to try to find solutions for particular problems. and i think that that's part of what's going on here. i think that the, i think the or chill on and probably of the quite a few among the, the, the kurdish leadership more generally. because he wouldn't have done this simply on his own. i recognize that, you know, the, the balance of power has definitely shift bids and in order to get the best possible outcome for their people for their cause. this is the way to go in the

habit because we don't know if the p k. k will accept the system has to be reckoned ratified by the p k. k party. congress does not. yes, absolutely. and uh that was also mentioned in the lo jolanda announcement. yes, sir, the party leaders in the mountains can do you love your racket, curtis, um, i have uh set over the past couple of weeks uh that while let you know, they will come this kind of initiative from the old yolanda and you know, the possibility of an agreement of a peace agreement between the old yolanda and the turkish government. above defaults have been very much clear that uh, there has to be some sort of a uh, you know, legal and constitutional uh, solution to the, you know, a longstanding curtis conflict. uh, an issue in the country. in fact, a few days ago, more odd cray, along with the, one of the senior military commanders of the p k. k. a. so do you know that there have to be also a steps addressing the faith of the groups fighters and leaders in the mountains.

and you know that this was not the kind of group that would be um, you know, just the spot ended upon an order from which a lot that there need to be. there needs to be practical steps agreed upon by all sides for this process to actually move forward in practice. and uh, you know, that is what also a lot of people have been pointing out basically since yesterday that as much as the old yolanda the announcement is important is a historic and offers an opportunity for peace. this needs to be followed by uh, you know, practical steps on the ground in terms of um, offering you know, certain rights to the curtis people in turkey in for writing these arrives in the turkish constitution. and also uh, you know, other important details such as a issue and an amnesty for the 2 fighters, i'm leaders facilitating or allowing the, you know,

refuge for the part of the senior leadership in other countries. the in any, either in the region or in the west. so there are all these, the important details that, that need to be worked out on. so just looking at the announcement itself, i should not really, you know, give the impression that the piece has been achieved and the, you know, that everything is going to fall into place automatically from here on there is a lot in terms of the need to greet you of the process of an agreement between the, the p k k. and the more broadly the curtis movement in turkey and the turkish government that needs to be worked out. and i'm all we've something you've already alluded to. how much do you think the changing dynamics in syria are effectiveness? yeah, i think so. yeah, it's a huge part of this because in the past the peak instructed us quite well, came out and see that they were almost close to establishing an ultimate sweden den

north east. in a pre, dominic, i'm up area which was quite the one that the traditional majority of the pgp try to step by step. however, they try stuck on the wash as a protection, and they trust it on, i mean, it can support the trusted and payments with desktop publishing and the one in reference. christ. now do, i mean, but the supplies are no longer adapt. russia is no longer adapted protected by pgp, kate sewer and branch to y, p g, and d. c. it is not on their desktop resume. they kind of name, but it appears that the top optimization but eventually also bit talk. i'm serious with the patient is not the 10 times you but and enough to sustain it, so that this is something that made me and i do not think that uploads and then has the quote may result in a change of attitude, probably to come d, the ship and d. c, ma'am bench with the big box this call can be used as an excuse for internal voices who think that despite that should not continue any more. i probably heard from the

later the i still have to be saying that this does not apply to us very well. yes it does. he does, but he wants also to reach a deep but schools and so far the can be leadership was quite a game. so speed with the must was now with a large amounts calling. his hands has been in power against his own support based, who did not agree to a deed without moscow said if they say the between the stiff and them must cause this it, but also facilitate the post this into key. but let me be k, about one particular thing in the past and the piece process, we tried to negotiate the settlement between 2 cans to predict k. as of now we don't have to negotiate to set them up to something similar to that. there will be no tit for tat. they wouldn't be, as i've said, no separate stage, no for the tournaments each. oh not even culture, writes is fish the need for codes. but this is a government victory. and to get

a basic, you put the how would you like if he can succeed this that they can get into how service they need to code this put each kid movement in to get within the limits of the 2 piece democratic and key. okay. i think, yeah, that's the thing like i think the best thank you i'm, i was in the how many is, is that something that's going to be satisfactory to cuts across the region? because effectively what we're saying is that this is the end of the dream of a avenue independent cody state. sure, well, it is important to realize that the p k. k has the, you know, officially given up uh, on demanding, i mean, defendant courtesy state in turkey does not even been asking for federalism up until recently. you know, it made the mass for some sort of uh, autonomy. yeah. within the borders of the state of turkey. but the, it's also important to really realized that the audio on message was quite general . and in some ways also a cryptic which allows a lot of room for interpretation. it can be a stretch in terms of what it contains,

what it applies and what a, you know, things to achieve. and we have already seen signs of that. for example, you know, the 3rd case, a government and the ruling party officials in turkey have said that, oh, jones, coal for disarmament. and there's a lucian of the p k. k should also include the sd if that is also uh, you know, important to note here that the following the pros conference or the event to yesterday were or july announcement was a read out that the one of the damn party, which is the pro curtis part in $31.00 of their m p is the service already on there . that all gilan had also told them verbally, that this announcement can not really, you know, be realized without a democratic and legal framework to support that. and so there will be a lot of detail that has to be worked out then even though or deal on in these

announcement. you know, i've said that the curves are no longer even asking for autonomy, which was, you know, sort of the bare minimum of the curtis the minds uh, at least up until recently. there is going to be a certain degree of resistance to that within the broader kurdish public and political move mind. so there has to be some sort of a trade off for otherwise this announcement would be, you know, practically nothing but just some announcement or declaration of surrender and calculation. and i doubt the given, you know, the long history of the curtis issue inter key, which goes, you know, way beyond m d for the p k. you can tracy back to the, to the late autumn and times event. and in particular, you know, sense the sub placement of the 3rd category, probably given this a historical def, historical dimension. and the roots of this issue that neither of july nor the p k,

k. really. or for that matter if and you know, the curtis and piece in the chart, this problem. and we'll be in a position to say that they are going to accept all the conditions of the product. let's all right, in terms of that, does it lucian, of the p k. k. i thanks for how much or nothing concret in return really. right. well let's put that point to a hell. yeah. do you think that will, it will be possible to produce a satisfactory tradeoff between to k and the end the p k. k. that will enable because to continue with the dream of what's on them in some sense so that there are 2 things here that i think are important. one of all possibilities are open. okay? so you could see the, the, the p, k, k go forward to this, you can see it splits. and as you alluded to earlier, i don't see signs of that at the moment,

but i think it's entirely possible. but i think that this and this is my 2nd point, there's a broader moment as a result of the fall of the acid regime. and syria that i think is really sending ripple effects. and not just in ne syria with the kurds. but more generally, the low um the, the conditions that allowed for this sort of arms struggle or this sort of fight within turkey and in the region more generally over what is considered to be a historical card. this done the, those conditions of fundamentally changed. and i think that when they see particularly as your other gus mention the americans not being willing to support the c f in ne, syria when they see the, the, the, the empowering of a new regime in damascus. that is very clearly aligned with anchor. in many ways, i think that they realize that there is a historic moment here. and this one that they can try to take advantage off and

salvage as much as they can, or one that they can fight against. and right now it seems that at least or to learn has chosen the former ends um are as far as the tech is concerned, what will the 3rd one's position be on a p k, k affiliates say for example in northern syria, moving forwards now. so the tech's position is cracked, the ticket would not turn away if you have to be an autonomous region in syria or to remain as a separate product within the c. i mean, that's when that's done. most of us would not accept this. and here we have done that stand as the from the speaker just it took, it has a stablish a new way. you can reach different good you to get as close cooperation with muskets, which sylvia to kissing. good coordination should include the nation. but the rocky crew this time, and you are concerned, isn't it the expect the support for the genetics code to get has agreed with the iraqi government on the p k. k being event organization in the lock. and key one

has to be defeated. huge. the new one, but one of the major support this of the p 2 k as what? so this indicates that ticket would not to do it as a alternative and po, separate entity within the army. that is only one grateful. and this is to this found this um, engage totally to key and click speech key here to key even though it has a pro se is spend the best them clicking the reason and put them in this new atmosphere. if there is no more of the type of terrorism, there's no more the security aspect that could occur discretion and to get if there's no more the type of it to the shuttles to encourage politics into the society. i expect that the 2 people put it to despair open not very much that the tooth was stupid, opened up pretty much and we can be able to discuss many different things. pick them up, able to discuss things that i'm off of that to have it to you at agreement with the p k. k must include part of a laundry arrangement that includes equal status and,

and a democratic. right? so if take is curtis population, because if that doesn't happen at the very least, this could once again spill over into violence. goodness. yeah, absolutely. i mean, the, you know, it remains definitely to be seen what kind of details would be worked out between both sides of the kurdish a representatives and the turkish government. and you know, whether these kind of a, this kind of agreement or the points agreed upon would be actually given a legal and constitutional law, legitimacy and framework. however, again, as i said before that you know where the p take a issue should be really seen as part of a dig around broader. uh, you know, problem an issue in turkey. that goes back to the very origins of the targeted republic. there is definitely a way forward in terms of uh,

keys and in terms of settling this conflict it, it definitely depends on the uh, you know, good wheel and, uh, the, the understanding of interest of both sides. but uh, you know, even though there has been, uh, conflict over the past several decades, or in the early republican era, between the curves on the charge of republic, the turkish government. that does not mean that, that has to be the, you know, the future. of course, of those relationships that there is a historical precedents which can be drawn upon cold upon in terms of charging and new passing term, okay. on, i think, you know, as long as there is some serious goodwill and if negotiations are being conducted in good faith on both sides. but in particular uh on the side of the turkish government. given that it to the dominant, the party in this conflict, that there is

a very good and decent chance for peace that he knows this may yet harold, a new era of equitable peace gentlemen, we're going to have to leave it. the thanks very much indeed for joining us. i'm a risky little dick. ha, ha, i'm a habit seller. thanks very much. indeed. i thought you'd say if we're watching for this and all the stories we're covering, just go to a website that i'll just share a dot com. and if you want to take the discussion on, go to our facebook page, that's facebook dot com, forward slash a inside story. and of course you can also join the conversation on x a handle is it's a inside story for me mccloud. and the whole team has escobar a challenges with

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the . ready ready i'm rarely carlson in doha. these are the top stories on al jazeera ukraine president loading their zalinski has cut his visit to the white house short after a war of words with us president donald trump. tension between the pair started after zelinski demanded a us security commitment as part of the weapons for minerals agreement that was due to be signed from board zalinski. he was gambling with world war 3 and called him disrespectful zalinski left abruptly without signing the deal. that was aimed at helping and the war with russia there.