to the latest news throwing strikes. so us boots on the ground is a really red line. mexico has a long, often painful history with the us military, with detailed coverage. this drama is playing got in the cold. the country remains in a kind of political and diplomatic limbo from the hoss of the story. so things keep saying he's willing to do a deal on his presidency for nato membership shows perhaps just how much is changed in recent weeks. and the jail found the leader of the p k. k tools on the curtis group to this fund that follows for decades of fund team, a tech you close the full 2000 lines to was coming out and what impacts could it have on so okay, i'm the region. this is inside story. the

other there and welcome to the program and the clock. there is no alternative to democracy in the pursuit and realization of a political system. a reasonable statement base would agree. but when those very woods come from the lead of a group that is for the bits a conflict for, for decades. while it's world news. and they were part of the statements, but at the atlanta founder and leader of the code has done work, is bought t o p k, k issued from his jail cell in a prison on a tucker sign. and he's being behind boss, since he was abducted in kenya by tucker, special forces. just over 26 years ago. i man revered by his people but reviled by many and took a he now wants his group to lay down at toms and despond. his coolness of major regional political significance reverberating across not just took a but serious a rack and the wrong to. so why now could and decades of conflict. and what might

the political implications for chuck a, b, and the region will discuss all this and more with, i guess. but 1st, this report from michael soon, sharp of culture and addicted to conflict. that's claim tens of thousands of lives up the level of chill on the leader of the code is focused potty or p k. k says it's time for the group to lay down its arms and to spend notes in the the, the statement was read out by politicians some to, to dish people's equality in democracy, party of to they visited him in a prison on an island in the sea. of my motto of is steinberg. so you and he's of the groups congress to rectify his decision. lucky i put you on the big they've, let's be a total all great. so you should lay down that um and the p k. k most dissolve itself took as president jeff type of the once

a party has called on the groups, the heat or challenge, it's called. the message of the p k. k is found, the was created, the celebrations in southeast and toad. key. the country's code is how plant the default yolanda themes. this appropriate we will it be him because this issue cannot be solved with weapons and force because we do not want to see blood on all those steps anymore. enough is enough. turkey and the p k. k had been at war for more than 4 decades with the turkish ministry, attacking targets within the country and the neighboring iraq. and sylvia and caroll has designated the p k. k as a texas group, as has the us and its best and allies. but at least 40000 people have been killed in the conflict. as the b k date came to establish an independent curtis state. although in recent times, the focus has been on retail autonomy and rights for pets. which helen has been

serving the lives sent in since 1999 of to being convicted of treason and his school comes months of to enter a suggested he could be drawn to really if the p k gave renounces violence and dispense to a piece process between the p k, k and the toughest stage collapse and directed to go the group has since launched regular attacks in the country. some believe that will challenge called may bring historic changes was the, the i'm starting the. busy picture of the late that the curtis struggle for stripe and labor, this will be given a more legitimate for internal and external really, despite being in jail, a challenge remains a huge, the influential leader for many cuts. his goal for b is, could have major implications for the region. the p. k. k has flits and syria,

iran and iraq. and his announcement was met with the prompts and syria co disposes whole significant touch trees. but what influence of children has over them is not care. they come on the region. welcome a challenge, statesman saying the call is not directed at his forces in yeah, the issue is related to the p j. k. the issue of laying down arms and it has nothing to do with us and it's nothing directed at us and our forces. turkey is will with the p. k. k has led to a sweeping crag down against pro kurdish parties and resent us the to cause government has accused them of the links to the group. for tenants called for peas is being seen the many as a challenge to reset ties, but others kept to close the outcome be positive on the consumption these arches 0 for inside story as well. this all started when the peak a launch,

a non insurgency against tech, a back in 1984. but as far as the zeros that presents in the neighboring region, no freights from mountain strongholds in northern iraq and is linked to the y p g fight is in syria, a key ally of the united states. the p. k. k also has forces in iran. all right, let's get into this with, i guess straight away and then go, we have um, uh, who's gainesville j. a non resident fellow at the atlantic council's middle east program director of tucker studies at the on run center for strategic studies in car. oh, it's a heavy yeah. see me a fellow in geo politics, international security, and middle east studies at the role united services institute of defense and security. think time and in the united states in virginia are indeed my habits. tyler, non resident senior fellow at the foreign policy research institute. here's what laws, the focus is on regional kurdish affairs. a very warm welcome to you. it is

a big deal and date the story and actually highly i'd like to start with you for decades of almond struggle, 40000 killed. and now the prospect to pace before we. busy move into the nitty gritty of old is, could you just contextualize as far as just how much of a turning point in history could this be if the p k k and they do laid down their own? thank you for having me on the program. so i'm glad you said could because of course there are multiple possibilities and potentialities here. but in the event that this does actually leads to a genuine piece and the, the laying down of ours by the p k. k. then i think the ramifications are quite significant, not simply for turkey, but also in syria, a somewhat in iraq as well. and i think that that's the, the key is through here over the past few months. there been a number of, frankly, seismic changes in the region and they were unrelated but will interact with each

other in quite significant ways. so the fall of the said regime, for example, keeping in mind that for example, when it comes to the p, k, k, many of their leaders had saw it refuge in, in this area under the said regime going back many, many years since i also learned himself was based out of syria and very. ready early on until the mid late ninety's, right. when you think about the coming to power of uh, president trump, in the united states that has had an impact in terms of support for, for this forces in ne, syria. so there are a number of things that have happened over the past few months that i think it will come together. okay, well we will get into those things that shortly the. busy short will get into all these things shortly, but not having to sell it for us. what does this mean at this moment for goods of to 40 is, is this, is this, the feats? this is disappointment, is this dissolution mental is this moment,

moments of opportunity that the struggle of 40 years has yielded. it really depends on who you are asking uh, but the, the consensus among the majority of curves, the in the region is that uh, you know, this is a moment of hope. uh, maybe it is offering you a glimmer of hope that the longest sending conflict that as you said, has claimed uh over 40000 lives so far across a period of uh for the case of conflict. uh. and might be actually uh, coming to an end that houses are also, you know, given the complexity and complications of this situation. people are also treating this uh, with quite uh, you know, a significant amount of a skepticism. it is not that people are expecting. there is going to be a new sort of a quick and easy fix is the, this is definitely not going to be a straightforward, smooth, and linear process, but will be most probably,

even in the best case scenario. if uh, some sort of a, uh, you know, of an agreement is actually going to be achieved and piece is going to be realized . we are going to be witnessing ups and downs uh, throughout this process. and it's not going to, you know, be something that will happen in a matter of weeks or even months, probably. and i am well from your point of view, from where you're sitting and incorrect from your perspective. do you agree with that? that is not going to be a straightforward process that perhaps this is being greeted with skepticism skepticism, to kentucky. so yes, i'll use the to get is breaking out to see how duplicates come to do this should be where do we x and how to protect the serial branch most will keep due to act or this is the condition. however, we have done that on your wife think this, the statement about a 100 on does not come out of nowhere because the took is competing strategy has pushed this to happen in the past in 2015. the key was function woburn,

nebraska into cities in the southeast to kia. now the peak, it has no pollution, a cap of the 2 types of security level for introduced. se the peak case is per line of infiltration from you. walk into to get, has to be crushed the ticket and see some of the huge pressure with losing all of the code to know on the rest of the site to do freight civic. so with all of these coming to get to the turkish contest, some stuff that he has achieved quite a lot. and now the callback leverage and then gets the opportunity to do p k, k n for the could be fully to disappear altogether to get rid of the terrorism aspect and to engage on the products. this is the may, the thing that type of why do you hear the most? because even if the key doesn't, they don't, it's weapon. now we have the chance that the tool could, this is a pretty good product. this may discounts themselves from the p k. k. and it was technically, it does so it's

a possibility that this might be right to kick it into 2 branches, documented credit card, wink, and then move. yeah. did you speak a card from? i think we, well, if you could give me accepted, would the despond and discernment the sofa itself? we have yet to see how the ticket keeps coming to the bishop. good way to this, but know it, let me be clear. if this fades, the turkish made it to recount a 1000 equations would only be facilitated after this and took you has now the more and how you ground, much more than it has. it has a deep ever before. all right, which leads me ha ha to the quote that i read at the beginning of the program. there is no alternative of to democracy in a procedure and realization of a political system as well as one has said. and it's not something that he would have said back in the 19 eighties and nineties is nothing is not something he would have written today. he would think that the channels of democratic politics on now a newly open so i'm not sure that it's about it being newly opened as

much as i think a pragmatic assessment of where the kurdish question actually is, given everything that your, your other guests have mentioned and also, as i described, visa viewed the fall of the acid regime and frankly a change in the. busy remains of the rules based international. ready under which is of course become incredibly fragmented following russia's invasion of ukraine as well as, of course, israel's more on gaza. i think that there's a recognition not simply within the b k k. but more generally, throughout the region, the look where we're not going to be able to count on external forces at all. we're going to have to rely on engaging within our own region in order to try to find solutions for particular problems. and i think that that's part of what's going on here. i think that the, i think that what you learn and probably of the quite a few among the, the,

the kurdish leadership more generally. because they wouldn't have done this simply on his own. i recognize that, you know, the, the balance of power has definitely shift bids and in order to get the best possible outcome for their people for their cause. this is the way to go in the habit because we don't know if the p k. k will accept the system has to be reckoned ratified by the p k. k party congress does not. yes, absolutely. and uh that was also mentioned in the lo jolanda announcement. yes, sir, the party leaders in the mountains can do you love your racquet, curtis, um i have uh set over the past couple of weeks that while let you know, they will come this kind of initiative from the old yolanda and you know, the possibility of an agreement of a peace agreement between the old yolanda and the turkish government. above defaults have been very much clear that there has to be some sort of a uh, you know, legal and constitutional uh, solution to the, you know,

a longstanding curtis conflict. uh, an issue in the country. uh, in fact, a few days ago, moran cray, along with the one of the senior military commanders of the p k k. a. so do you know that there has to be also a steps addressing the faith of the groups fighters and leaders in the mountains. and you know that this was not the kind of group that would be um, you know, just the spot and upon an order from college along that there need to be there needs to be practical steps agreed upon by all sides for this process to actually move forward in practice and you know, that is what also a lot of people have been pointing out basically since yesterday that as much as the old yolanda the announcement is important is a historic and offers an opportunity for peace. this needs to be followed by uh, you know, practical steps on the ground in terms of, um, offering uh, you know,

certain uh, rights to the curtis people in turkey in for writing these arrives in the turkish constitution. and also uh, you know, other important details such as a issue and an amnesty for the 2 fighters, i'm leaders facilitating or allowing the, you know, refuge for the part of the senior leadership in other countries. the in any, either in the region or in the west. so there are all these, the important details that, that need to be worked out on. so just looking at the announcement itself, i should not really, you know, give the impression that the piece has been achieved and the, you know, that everything is going to fall into place automatically from here on there is a lot in terms of the need to greet you of the process of an agreement between the, the p k k. and the more broadly the curtis movement in turkey and the turkish

government that needs to be worked out. and i'm all we've something you've already alluded to. how much do you think the changing dynamics in syria at our effectiveness? yeah, i think so. yeah, it's a huge part of this because in the past the peak instructed us quite well, came out and see where they were almost close to establishing an ultimate sweden den northeast. in the pre dominic, i'm up area which was quite the, i want to get the tradition majority of the public. you tried to step by step what they try stuck on the wash, that's a protection and they trust them. i mean, it can support the trusted and payments for the desktop publishing and the one in reference. christ. now do, i mean, bremerton supplies are no longer adapt. russia is no longer adapted protected by p duplicate syrian branch to y, p g, and d. c. it is not on their desktop region, they kind of name, but it appears that the trump optimization, but eventually also be to come see us with the patient is not pen pen. jupiter and

the not sustainable so that this is something that may need and i do not think that uploads and then posey this quote may result in a change of attitude probably to come d the ship and d. c. ma'am branch of the p t k box this call can be used as an excuse for internal voices who think that despite that should not continue any more later the yes to me saying that this does not apply to us or law. yes, it did say does, but see once also to each of the schools and so far, the con, the leadership was quite against the speed but the most with now with a large amounts calling his hands has been in power against his own support based who did not agree to for deed with that my school said it's, those are the between the cf anthem us cuz this it but also facilitate the post this into key. but let me be k, about one particular thing in the past and the piece process, we try to negotiate to supplement between 2 can to predict k. as of now we don't

have to negotiate to set them up to something similar to that. there will be no tit for tat. that wouldn't be, as i've said, no separate stage, no for the tournaments each. oh, not even cultural rights, especially in the book codes. but this is a government victory. and to get a basic, you know, put uploads or if he can succeed this, that they can get into how service they need to create these put, it's good movement in to get within the limits of the to dis, democratic and key. okay. i think, yeah, that's the see. i think the best thank you i'm, i was in the how many is, is that something that's going to be satisfactory to cuts across the region? because effectively what we're saying is that this is the end of the dream of a avenue, independent cody stake. sure, well, it is important to realize that the p h k has the, you know, officially giving out the on demanding, i mean, defendant curtis of state in turkey does not even been asking for federalism up until recently. you know, it made the mass for some sort of uh,

autonomy. yeah. within the borders of the state of turkey. but it's also important to really realized that the audio on message was quite general. and in some ways, also a cryptic which allows a lot of room for interpretation. it can be a stretch in terms of what it contains, what it implies, and what a, you know, things to achieve. and we have already seen signs of that. for example, you know, the 3rd case, a government and the ruling party officials in turkey have said that, oh, july is cold for disarmament and there's a lucian of the p k. k should also include the sds, is also uh, you know, important to note here that the following the pros conference or the event to yesterday were or july announcement was a read out that the one of the damn party, which is the pro curtis part in $31.00 of their m p is the service already on there,

that that's old yolanda had also told them verbally that this announcement can not really, you know, be realized without a democratic and legal spray and more to support that. and so there will be a lot of detail that has to be worked out then even though or deal on in his announcement. uh, you know, i've said that the kurds are no longer even asking for autonomy, which was, you know, sort of the bare minimum of the curtis the minds, the police up until recently as there is going to be a certain degree of resistance to that within the broad, their current aisha, public and political move mine. so there has to be some sort of a tradeoff of otherwise this announcement would be, you know, practically nothing but just some announcement or declaration of surrender and calculation. and i doubt the given, you know, the long history of the curtis issue,

inter key, which goes, you know, way beyond the m d for the p k. you can trace it back to the, to the late autumn and times event. and in particular, you know, sense this sob placement of the 3rd category, probably given this a historical dp story code. the motion and the roots of this issue that neither of july nor the p k, k. really, or for that matter, if any, you know the curtis and pieced in the chart this problem. and we'll be in a position to say that they are going to accept all the conditions of the product. let's all right, in terms of that, does it lucian, of the, to take a long time and we're not saying concret him in return. really. right. well let's put that point to a hell. yeah. do you think that will, it will be possible to produce a satisfactory tradeoff between to k and the end the p k. k. that will enable

because to continue with the dream of what's on them in some sense so that there are 2 things here that i think are important. one of all possibilities are open. okay? so you could see the, the, the p, k, k go forward to this, you can see it splits. and as you alluded to earlier, i don't see signs of that at the moment, but i think it's entirely possible. but i think that this, and this is my 2nd point, there's a broader moment as a result of the fall of the acid regime. and syria that i think is really sending ripple effects and not just in ne, syria with the cards. but more generally, the low and the, the conditions that allowed for this sort of arms struggle or this sort of fight within turkey and in the region more generally over what is considered to be a historical card. this done. so those conditions of fundamentally changed. and i think that when they see, particularly as your father goes to mention,

the americans not being willing to support the c f in ne syria when they see the uh, the, the, the empowering of a new regime in damascus that is very clearly aligned with ankara in many ways, i think that they realize that there is a historic moments here and this one that they can try to take advantage off and salvage as much as they can, or one that they can fight against. and right now, it seems that at least ought to learn, has chosen the former ends more as far as tech is concerned, but will a 3rd one's position be on a p k, k affiliates say for example in northern syria, moving forwards now. so the troops position is great, it took, you would not turn away, you have to be an autonomous region, and so we are all to remain as a separate product within the c. i mean it's when it's done, most of us would not accept this. and here we have time to stand as the from the speaker just it took, it has a stablish a new way you can reach different good you to get as close corporation with them.

ask us which sylvia to kissing good coordination, ship and quote with the nation but the rocky crew this time. and you actually couldn't, isn't expect the support for the genetics quote. to get has agreed with the iraqi government on the p k. k being a bent organization in the lock and key one has to be defeated. you one, but one of the major support this of the p t k as what? so this indicates a ticket with not to do it as a alternative and po, separate entity within the army. there is only one grateful. and this is to this found this um, engage totally to key and click speech key here to key even though it has some pros, is spend the best them clicking the reason and put them in this new atmosphere. if there is no more of the type of terrorism, there's no more the security aspect to this question and to get if there's no more the type of it to the shuttles to encourage politics and to be society. i expect

that the 2 people put it to despair open, not very much that the to cause stupid, opened up pretty much and we can be able to discuss many different things. pick them up, able to discuss some things that i'm off of that to have it to you at agreement with the p k. k must include part of a laundry arrangement that includes equal status and, and a democratic. right. so if a tech is curtis population, because if that doesn't happen at the very least, this could once again spill over into violence. couldn't. absolutely, i mean, uh, you know, it remains definitely to be seen. what kind of details would work between both sides uh, the courteous uh, representatives and the turkish government. and uh, you know, whether uh these kind of a discount of agreement or the points agreed upon would be actually given a legal and constitutional law legitimacy and framework. however, again,

as i said before that you know where the p take a issue should be really seen as part of a bigger and broader. uh, you know, problem an issue in turkey. that goes back to the very origins of the target republic. there is definitely a way forward in terms of uh, keys and in terms of settling this conflict it, it definitely depends on the uh, you know, good wheel and, uh, the, the understanding of the interest of both sides. but uh, you know, even though there has been, uh, conflict over the past several decades or in the early republic, an era between the curves on the charge of republic, the turkish government. that does not mean that, that has to be the, you know, the future, of course, of those relationships that there is a historical precedents which can be drawn upon cold upon in terms of charging and new passing term. okay. and i think, you know,

as long as there is some serious good will. and if negotiations are being conducted in good faith on both sides by the, in particular, uh on the side of the turkish government, given that it did the dominant party in this conflict, that there is a very good and decent chance for peace that he knows this may yet, harold, a new era of equitable peace, gentlemen, we're going to have to leave it there. thanks very much. indeed for joining us. i'm a whiskey little dick. ha, ha, i'm a habit seller. thanks very much. indeed. i thought you'd say if we're watching for this and all the stories we're covering, just go to a website that i'll just share a dot com. and if you want to take the discussion on, go to our facebook page, that's facebook dot com, forward slash a inside story. and of course you can also join the conversation on x a handle is it's a side story for me mccloud. and the whole team has escobar the

pond, causing the costs to crane, a breeze to grant the us access to its mineral wealth. but is it really a win win deal is germany's business model in danger of breaking up from camden? you've government fix it. plus 1000000000 is, or i'm asking mountains of money will be in a policy gap at will be breached counting the cost on al jazeera. when did use in from the truth, the fact hanging the balance. he's going after the media in a way that's unprecedented. the narrative is being rewritten, these choosing to amplify. when voices of silence agendas prevail, the tax on the press or an accident, the part of a broader effort to suppress the story. systemic emissions mean control. what has this discussion looked like in a right wing media circles? again, it's for 50 is being labeled with the situation. the listening post decoding, the media analysis era. this is a region that is likely to be develop thing, but it's one also that is afflicted by conflicts political upheaval. some of those

we talk to elsewhere is saying that they sled update hearing that other villages had been a talk. what we do in all just sarah, is try to balance the stories, the good, the bad, the id tell. it says it was, and he's the people allow us into their lives, dignity into minus. he asked me to tell this story. the the the us presidents doubles down off to, for racing, ukraine's visa in front of the world's press. the new ways of helping this is al jazeera life from terry hall, also coming up. busy the 1st

prize of ramadan now held in garza as negotiations about the future of the sci fi.