except for his abrupt termination, we took a walk through the last padres national forest in california. this job to me was the 1st chance i've had to really build the legacy in that. um, i get to take the things they already love to do, which is spending time in nature and conserving rare plants and animals. and i really leave my mark on the world. this sprawling forest between los angeles and monterey was part of visits, arrows responsibility, the lowest padres, national forest is right in the middle of a global biodiversity hot spot. it's right, it's a transition between the central coast and the southern california climate and eco types. and it has some of the most endangered species of any forest in the national forest system. and that's all their agencies carrying on and back. he recounted the day he was fired over the phone on orders from washington. and when i got the call, i fear the worst. i heard my boss,

his voice before he even told me the news. i just blurted out, i'm fired. and he said, yep. and i'm sorry, and i just felt like i was going to vomit this job in so much to me. this was a career and, and the chance to build my legacy that just got suddenly ripped away in the name of government efficiency. it doesn't make any sense. so far, $3400.00 for service employees have been let go visit. gero says their absence will have consequences. we're losing a dedicated fire fighting force that protects communities. the people that support that force. people that protect our communities from land slides and erosion. people that make sure we have clean drinking water, people that protect our cultural heritage and tribal history sites. people that protect our wild life and the populations that live in it. we may not feel these effects for decades, but we're going to feel them. when we take away the land managers from the land

they're trying to manage. he's just one of more than 30000 public servants fired since trump took office and more cuts are coming every day of people and the services they provide. rob reynolds, l. g 0 in the last padres national forest, california to south career where hundreds of people have dressed in traditional costumes and have much to celebrate independence. yes, the procession took place on friday night to may 16th to and then march 1st as the anniversary of the beginning of civilian protest in 1919 against japanese lady over a different me walking on here and out 0. i'd often of the us president donald trump is set to address congress and the american people with

a flurry of executive orders. a departure from conventions on challenges to has a government, which one is transforming politics at home and abroad with his 2nd time on the way? what's next on terms of gender? stay with all just for the latest from the white house. as donald trump escalates of mass deportation plans and bullies and threatens leaders from mexico to columbia, to panama, or us latin american relations at an all time low. and how does washington's history of meddling in the americas inform the present moment? i'll ask those questions to fill with the prize winning author and history professor. right? yeah. university. great, great, great, great, thank you so much for joining me on upfront. thanks to thanks for having me. with donald trump, back in the white house, his administration is swiftly begun implementing its mass deportation agenda across the country were seeing res racial profiling. sweeping arrest by us immigration and

customs officials. uh, all of it is led to the detention and deportation of thousands of migrants as these crackdowns intensify. what is the surgeon ice rates signal about the broader direction of us immigration policy under the 2nd trump administration? yeah, it's a great question and it's hard to separate the spectacle from, from what is actually happening on the ground. and there's a lot of reports that the, that the, that they read the algorithms of google in order to bring up a raids that happened years ago. just to make it appear that they're doing more than they're actually doing. i mean, i just this week they announce and not releasing anymore numbers about about how many immigrants that they've detained, that are deporting. they're not releasing the figures, not really numbers. in many ways, it's a continuation of, of, of the, of the, of the tale under the bottom administration. we're seeing a couple 100 people de couple, you know, couple of 1000 people. we, but this is not significantly higher than what was going on. okay,

that's interesting. so joe biden, to all, or brock obama before the, you know, the, the puerto, and cheapest of people. yeah, yeah, yeah. the more stations that i've been part of us policy, just the question of, to what degree do politicize it to turn it into a spectacle. and that's, that's what donald trump thought. so, so it's, it would be fair to say the dial tone is not worse than that. his democratic predecessors, he just has a different rhetoric and actual numbers. i don't think so. i think the reality is the united states actually doesn't have the capacity to do the kind of mass deportation that he has promised his base. you have, you know, and it's the democratic but party mocker. that goes out of its way to one to the right code, but whatever the republican position is on immigration. and so you have your sensors like chris murphy tweeting out that donald trump isn't keeping up with buying his numbers on deportation. so in many ways, it's much more about the spectacle, the actual cruelty, the using, the military plains, the showing the people in shackles,

and lego ends being deported. that, that is, that is, that is what trump like. so, i mean, it was just to report that they, that, that they will, they were taking a press releases of rage that happened under the obama administration and, and changing the date and reload and uploading it. so therefore, anybody do the search, it comes up with what the current date put on february 3rd. reuters reported that a donald trump's administration had actually step up the arrest though picking up about a 1000 people per day, which was 3 times the daily average of last year. now, it seems that something, it least is happening here. that's different than what we then what we've seen before. is there at least a worry? do you have any concern that things could get worse? yes, i mean tom home and the director of, of ice has said that they're going to why didn't the aperture of who, who gets target? they're going to go from people who, who are a criminals to people who are in the country and pull it up and document the alien

enemies. yeah. waiting for, i saw, you know, but, but, but again, in many ways the reality is, is, is the, the rhetoric and the spectacle is far out. stripping the reality, you know, trumpet from campaigned on a mass deportation. i mean, we know the way he talks, we know the language he uses, we know that the numbers that he pulls out of the nav. yeah. you know, millions of people, you know, it, it's, it's, it's, it's the states capacity of deporting that. as many people as trump, as far as just doesn't exist, and we're already hearing reports that, that ice is releasing, releasing to jamie's back into the population with, with ankle bracelet. so show up at a hearing, but rather than, rather than deporting them in many ways completely. exactly what happened on the biden, and on the, on the obama. but, but again, it's the spectacle, it's the, it's the, it's the, and now that you know that there's 2 ways of thinking about it. it's the, there's the argument that the cruelty is the point. right?

and then we, we need to have spectacles of cruelty besides what beads. you know, the trump base doesn't matter if the reality is, is it doesn't match that people think it is trouble, say the cruelties. the point is an argument for this waiting people from coming as well. yeah. like if we we create the spectrum. yeah. we won't have the, the image, the undocumented alien crisis. i think so, but i think it, the spectacle is for domestic consumption. i think it's for his base. i don't think it's, i think people going to come. i mean, nobody takes that journey. nobody puts that children in that kind of jeopardy, unless the conditions of the survival where they are is worse than what, what, what's ahead and no, no rhetoric, no images of people being deported and back to home country is going to stop people from, from trying to get, get to a place where they can survive and have a hub of a, have a better life. that's an important point you raised it. let's drill down on that a little bit because there's an argument from trump and his allies,

that people do make a choice. and if we just make it harder, they woke up. if we can make it a difficult process, they will be dissuaded from showing up. i'm hearing you say no, the conditions are so bad where they are, but nothing could stop them from coming. how do we get there? how do we get to that point where people's conditions at home are so bad that they're willing to ban in their homeland their country, their houses, their farms, whatever, and come to this country? yeah. even with great peril. yeah. well 1st let me say that that calculation make it as difficult as possible. that's not that didn't begin with trump. it didn't begin with by and it didn't begin with hold on the be guy with the clint. they've been shutting down safe, border crossing roads to urban areas like el paso and pushing people out into the does that, why did they come? i mean, there's a lot of reasons you know, the united states is the most what the is the wealthiest nation in world history. it has jobs and people, and it has a demand for low skilled,

low pay with labor in many of these places it's, it's actually us policy which creates a hardship which drives the migration for. and i mean, we could look at, i mean, this goes back, we could look at the central american boys, we could look at economic policy, free trade policy map, the debit stated small farm is in mexico when it led to mass migration. you both into mexico city and north and, and again, the clinton administration knew this because the christian ministrations militarization of the border wasn't technically part of nafta. but it took place at the same time. they knew that the free trade agreement that basically gutted subsidies the small farm is it was drilled down that just yeah. or is, is a clear idea of national north american free trade agreement. right. it's imposed in 1993. really it's, it's, and it's, it's negotiated by the george h w bush administration, but clinton is the one who gets it through the senate and house and ratifies it and

signs it. and what it does is it, it, it allows capital and commodities to flow freely across the border, but it has no provisions at all for labor. but what it also did was it, it, it, it did nothing to take away subsidies to us agro industry. right. the 14 trillion dollar palm bill never. it is still in place. the multi phone bill which, which buttons cargo and phones one santo, when makes kansas con, you know, cheap that gets dumped into mexico and mexican mexican mexican bomb is mexican epicene. those can compete with it. and so, so within the 1st 5 years of nap the, something like 5000000 people lost their palms and mexico and, and the people sign after and design after new. it would create this dislocation. and that's why they simultaneously move, starting to get them to winter rise the border and shut down the board over as they've thought that that would keep that would last. so you'll post policies that

take people off there for. yeah. and then when they're fleeting, the goals go somewhere. we close the door. yeah. same thing with 80. you know, the policies, you know, when bill clinton return, john, but from the i received the power after the cool. he only did it on condition that iris steed adopt a whole set of policies that go into the rubric, neo liberalism, you know, cutting subsidies in tariffs that protected se haitian rice. volume is what haitian cement, build is, and a, and then devastated the country demonstrate the industry. and basically, yes, it's one. what, what, what falls under the rubric of neo liberalism with the washington consensus or economic restructuring, whatever you want to call, and reagan nomics is, is, is it has had an enormously devastating effect in poor countries. and the drives migrations added to that is the increasing reliance on sanctions. the sanctions we imposed on cuba, the sanctions reimbursement then as well. the reason why so many venezuelans are

coming is because, because trump and bite in a imposed very harsh economic sanctions in, in, because they were opposed to nicholas my little at all when they were hoping for, for reading check. so it, let's, let's start with it cuz we sort of talked about sections in as would have meddling in latin america in the past tense, but it's still happening, right? yeah, of course. yeah. sciences are all in play sections. it gives venezuela's still happening . they've devastated economies you've talked about. they fueled thousands of depths, they've supported bar. the united states supported the far right wing crews and places like libya and they funded security force is responsible for widespread human rights violations across the region. through the so called war on drugs and all of this stuff is happening. how is this different than the co, wherever? well, i would say it's different in, in one sense and that in, during the cold war era, i think that was some the, the, the existence of the, of an ideological competitor in the form of the soviet union, force the united states, to social socialize itself, a little bit to, to, to,

to not go full, full on in terms of, of austerity and pre market economic policies. you take away the soviet union. let me think about this. this will be union collapses in, in, in, in 1991. and the united states immediately starts to start imposes policies on itself as if it was a belligerent nation. so it's expanding the prison system. it's got to move with the rising, the police. it's d industrialize. it's such a gutting it's industrial base and you see this is as a response to the fall of the soviet union as opposed to just the kind of a negative abilities of new liberalism. yeah, i think the class, the collapse of this will be in union to allow the united states to imagine economic globalization on it's on it's full of scale and, and, and that include domestic restructuring and the think about what every, every major country, every walton country, restructured in the 1990s, to one degree or another as a result of inflation high energy prices,

no country gutted the institutions that could have ameliorated that restructuring as, as, as, as, as, as devastatingly as the united states to do it. so in terms of destroying unions, broken back welfare policies, anything that could have been mealy or aided the worst effects of restructuring, the united states con, no other western country, not even the u. k. did it to such a degree in united states, and that's what's, that's what, that's american exceptionalism. that brings me to the monroe doctrine, which you talk about in your 4th coming book america, america. this was the doctrine created under us president james monroe in 1823 as a response to latin american independence movements. uh, talking about this doctrine. how does it continue to implement us policy in the americas 2 centuries later? yeah, the actual monroe doctrine was just a couple of paragraphs. and in james monroe and state of the union address, you know, when it would, they weren't even continuous paragraphs. they basically said the united states was

going to recognize the independence of, of latin america, a south american nation, spanish american nations. and that it wouldn't, it wouldn't allow their re conquests by european powers. the latin americans liked that part. they, they, they read it, they thought they were hearing a kind of anti colonial sentiment. they would not be a recall on his ation of, of the americas by europe. but over the years, the monroe doctrine took on a different come, almost kind of a mystical power beyond the actual words that composed it. it, it came to signify that the united states had mandatory authority over the hemisphere. that wherever there was a threat to the united states has interest within the hemisphere to us had the right to act. and so the monroe doctrine became a symbol of this kind of informal empire. the united states has of taking the pond itself, the authority to police the hemisphere. and um, you, it's,

it's associated in many ways it can be associated with, with, with what we would call the kind of trump is store. national is, it's the idea that the united states is not necessarily responsible for superintending the globe, but that it's going to, it's going to, it's going to exercise mandatory authority within its own hemisphere, right. the latin america is the united states as backyard for so many ways it was this idea that there were regional powers which the use of influence that, that, that those powers had the right and obligation to police. it seems that trump might be doing that. now, in a warm and fuzzy or way right, was that it's not politically palatable to just say, hey, i'm taken over this place or hey, i'm controlling your, your politics. what he does do some interesting things to, i mean, since he's taken office, he's threatened, use military force against panama, but he signed an executive order renaming the gulf of mexico as the gulf of america about america. right, right. and he's threatened to trade war with mexico. some latin american leaders,

like mexico's president, a cloudy, or shined bomb, had stood up to trumps of rhetoric and home during president c. m. r a, a. capital has even threatened to shut down a u. s. military base. if he carries out the mass deportation plants, are us letting american relations at an all time low at this point as well. you know, trump, i mean it, it's interesting that they are at a low. i think the turn to latin america does, does go along with coincide with the that the kind of trumpets divisional world in which the united states is no longer the global head. your mind, trump is in some ways pulling back. we're seeing it in europe with european, with france and germany pushing back over trumps plans for a negotiated settlement over the war over the war. and ukraine was seeing it in, in, in, in many ways. and what it does entail is, is a kind of, is

a kind of recession back to a kind of hemispheric understanding of territorial power with the united states in projecting its power within latin america. but there's a couple of things going on yet. in latin america, latin america still overwhelmingly governed by let just a coalitions out of 620000000 people live in latin america. about 400000000 of them live on the presidents who call themselves the socialist or social democrats, shelley, columbia, brazil. but, but the, in many ways and, and the right is confined to countries like el salvador and, and, and, and, and, and origin. tina. but trump has the potential based within latin america. he has this, there is, there is the possibility of creating a kind of pen american trumpet, some the spread of culture war politics, anti woke as well as mo, with latin america. it's called the meal. the,

no, it's in every country and every country that's the, you know, just the anti anti and, you know, and tied gender. heather, a doc see, you know, this, this clamp down on, on the, on the expansion of, of gay rights and abortion rights. and in many ways it's taking expression that's very familiar within the united states. so to me, you basically brought trump to power this kind of conspiracy is this kind of cultural politics harvey a middle day in argentina says we have to fight the culture war every day. there is in the trenches going after the teachers going after abortion rights going after, you know, passing lawyers limit who, you know, the place severe restrictions on, on, on, on, on transgender people expressing themselves and transitioning. so there's, there's co trouble politics within latin america that, that is very familiar to the united states and,

and trump has the potential to kind of build on that. but at the same time though, he, by doing things like saying he's going to take back the panama canal by force that he's gonna rename. and you know, the, the gulf of the gulf of mexico, the gulf of america that he's going to seize greenland. it awakens a certain kind of man time period was sent in in latin america kind of reaction. and we've got the, the, the ideal of sovereignty is very cherished in latin america. and it's cherish because they had to live in the shadow of the, of an expanding united states that sees texas, that seized half a mexico that sees port puerto rico that took cuba and then administered it as an informal colony until 1959. so there's, there's, so there's, there's kind of come, it's unclear exactly which direction trump will go in latin america. there's the neo cons, luckily appointed secretary of state marco rubio, up until a few years ago he was down within the yo cottage and now he's down. now and now

he's adjusting himself and he sounding a little bit like an american 1st though. but, but it's a gender in latin america. what sort of yours agenda squeeze cube until it breaks? i was my daughter. oh and venezuela. i was taught tega in, in, in, in nicaragua, and forced brazil to lift the band. i'm also not a particularly job us, and i don't know, participating in the, in the election in 2026. he's banned from, from participating in the 2026 election because lives and mom and in the early a cool, an assassination attempt against lulu. so there's a whole new kind of gender in latin america if. if trump, let's rubio off leash. yeah. then then what we're going to see is, is, is a, is a, is, is quite a degree of chaos and crisis and latin america, the taking a significant actions to dismantle us aid. you know, the us agency for international development and the national endowment for democracy about ordering a near total freeze on all 4 and

a now of these cuts will lead to the getting of vital health care and education programs abroad. but both agencies have also been accused of operating as colbert instruments of u. s. foreign policy. as we see more america, 1st positives are often labeled. do you think us influence abroad is going to diminish? well, i guess the question is, how much the some of these policies get picked up by other, you know, other agencies within the state department? but yes, i mean, you, the, the gutting the targeting of usa id is fascinating this and really is a signal at the united states is, is announcing that it is no longer going to superintend the world. right. and any ideas, perfect expression of a kind of a kind of the fusion of heart and soft power. i mean, it does. all of it does it does, it does important and an m u main work and i think was funding the only work in the hospital left and gaza. things like that. and you know that,

and you have dispensing, you know, medicines in africa and, and, and, but it was also the agency in which that funded democracy promotion programs. and these were the, you know, when, when, when, when the national endowment for democracy which operates on the a i. d, was founded in 1983 under the reagan ministration. the 1st director of us that we do in the open, what the c i a used to do for berkeley, meaning that they fund oppositional groups and then countries where that are friendly, they just putting a whole range of civil society groups and countries that are kind of a problem, they fund those groups that are kind of parallel to potentially problem matic organizations. so if you have a left leaning union, you'll fund, you'll fund a us friendly union the but you know, you know, and then countries that are, that are out and out, you know, dissenting from us had gemini,

se bolivia, youth youth youth fund. these organizations that basically raise the law, that the country is heading towards the dictatorship and you know, and, you know, and then manipulates to press and go and book delivery. that was the reason why i mean, the reason why that cool didn't take cold is because at the moment i was kicked out a id and the getting the question as to what degree a lot of these programs will continue on to different rubrics. but as a symbol of us power, as a symbol of us had gemini, the, the, the, the targeting of a i, d, is, is, is very symbolic. i think what less than skin history teach us about how to kind of advocate for a just foreign policy in the americas as well. it's hard, it's hard, it's hard to say, but it's so much of us. what we call progress in the united states has been tied to

expansion and we'll write that. but basically, i think that the 1st thing is that liberals in the united states. and when i say liberals, i mean liberals that, that they have to, they have to come to terms with the degree to which liberal progress, the expansion of, of the, of, of, of the promise of, of, of a quality has been, you know, has been tied to has been tied to expansion, so we, during the jack sony in period the, the expansion of the suffrage to white unleaded and on property men when hand in hand with indigenous removal. um, you know that the, the, the abolition of slavery during the civil war when hand in hand with the pacification of the west and the expansion and the expansion westward. the progressive era of what you know, what hand in hand, with 1898 women's suffrage and, and the growth of the labor movement was tied to late b type tied to mainstream labor movement support for world war and the wheel

assessor. this is not the motivational speed, the more you're making me feel any progress requires there at the bottom of my gars that goes on and on and on. i mean, you know, and, but that's, that's broken. now. there is no, there is no, there is no going back to a world in which in which domestic. and which in which social justice at home is, is tied to empire is brought on the back of empire. and, and we've got to figure out how to operate in that world. a world limits the world a world of, of in which in which we have to we have to focus on on. we have to put forward a positive vision of the common good and mattress and not just defer and not just point to the frontier and say, that's the common good. so histories telling us what not to do, we have to imagine a kind of new future. yeah. wow, that's powerful. great, great, and thank you so much for joining us on upfront. thanks. hi.

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studies because of that. and this is that the variance of that is what it is, a close international filmmakers and world class journalists. this is an opportunity to consider what a collective values bring programs to inspire you. offer comes on the back, comes off with themselves. let's use this to retain my then to $1010.00 for it on and just the hard hit him in to be could be interim head for 4 years, which is pretty much it and the tool times, no, i didn't say that that will be for 40 years facing realities, what does donald trump's re election mean? pretty tough. it is most important that we focus on how to work with president trump thought provoking on self. and your wife is dealing with the climate crisis is a crisis of crisis good times. but there's not just one prices up here, the store on tools to how does era the

there's no limit to how far dream continue to study in your own adventure. now, the counter and the, the pedal until mccrae, this has been use how i live from coming up in the next 60 minutes. i've empowered you to be a tough guy at. i don't think you'd be a tough guy without the united states and the people are very great. but you're thinking of making deals for warehouse. the ukranian president arrives in london to really europeans what's 24 hours off the heated arguments with donald trump at the white house phase one.