for a new syria to emerge, there's no way we could move into content again where i see it is for this basement is part of our presence. opening up the conversation representation methods. we haven't had the best representation of african. so for us, it's about solving that putting to representation for our kids. with fresh perspectives from less are heard. voices the stream, explores the key issues of our time on algebra. it was meant to pay the way for a c spot and ukraine. but the public meeting between presidents, donald trump, and let them is of and speak to and contentious, and the us presidents has threatened to withdrawal his support. what does this mean for the war and ukraine will washington forced a settlement with most coach? this is inside story, the

i love that i am james bays. a visit that ukraine's president zalinski hope would secure us support in the face of russia's invasion. instead ended in a very public route. the meeting with president trump at the white house was supposed to be about signing the rights to some of the cranes read us minerals. chief hope that would keep us assistance coming to spike not containing any guarantees of security against russia. instead of presidents the landscape, go to dressing down from trump and he's vice president j. d bounce. who accused the wartime lead of showing disrespect and ingratitude. now, trumpets threatening to pull support from ukraine unless it accepts in principle, a peace still, the us has yet to negotiate with most scope. european leaders who thought they had brought trump back from on the side. now face the prospect of supporting ukraine alone, we'll get to a guess in just a few moments. first, for the a call has all report arriving to sign

a deal on the extraction of ukraine's rare earth minerals with united states. president vladimir savanski is meeting at the white house with his counterpart, donald trump appeared to begin quarterly looking for the cameras in the oval office . what kind of diplomacy? gigi, us began involved with what started as a disagreement between so landscape and vice president cheney events about russia's willingness to engage in peace, aggressive respect. i think it's disrespectful for you to come to the oval office. try to litigate this in front of the american media to send it into a very public ground. you're allowed to be in the position in that example has to be right around the word beginning of the war, not in a good position. it was you don't have the cards right now with us. you. so i'd have to arrange car right now, you're being so nice for you to you again later with relied similar vision to people seeing you gambling with world war 3, your gambling with world war 3. and what you're doing is very just disrespectful to

the country. the do you offering to us access to ukrainian minerals, but without security guarantee sought by keith was left on the table assigned. and so lensky was told to be quite as if it would be difficult to, with all of your support. he later told us media the relationship could be salvaged, but ukraine's biggest supporters in the republican party, skeptical we want to be health. hospital in the oval office, was disrespectful. and i don't know if we can ever do business with the let's see. again, the drama appears to have up and efforts by european allies to patch up relations between the us and ukraine. as washington pushes for direct peace talks with moscow . during a meeting with the u. k. prime minister care storm earlier this week. trump walk back and review which he called the landscape a dictator. did i said, i can't believe i said the next ration shocked to european leaders have again

rallied behind to landscape. i think we all know the situation using the grocer, which is russia and the people attack, which is ukraine. i think we all were right to have helped ukraine and sanctioned russia 3 years ago. the trump administration has been and talks end up mending relations with russia and a sign of progress. moscow appointed a new investor to washington on friday. do you think the inspect alons to come to the oval? the oval office right, has high language. what's being seen as a major shift in traditional us allegiances, as washington, preparing for peace talks with russia without ukraine and you're at the table. keith says it won't agree to any peace without security guarantees. now trump is threatening to post support from ukraine. if it doesn't back his peace plans. he's got to say, i want to make peace. he doesn't have to say there is say about a book this book that all the negative things. you've got to say i want to make

peace. i don't want to fight a war. the longer these people are dying with the prospect of america withdrawing. it's the 4th. you're may have to decide if it will, for if it can support ukraine alone. for the car, how to 0 for inside story the well, let's bring in all guess today to discuss this further from odessa and ukraine with joined by michael best, a q a global affairs analyst and senior fellow of the atlantic councils erase has sent up in week clo island, we have scott lucas, who is professor of us and international politics, a university college dublin, and then also live in no way. glen decent is profess of international relations at the university of south east, no way, an associate editor of russia in global affairs. welcome to you will well, we saw something, i think pretty unprecedented. yes, that'd been lots of tough. come the sections before in the oval office,

but not one like that played out in front of the cameras. scott, a disastrously bad template summit. would you agree? you're being very tiny with the word tough. let's cut to the chase in terms of what happened and analyze it. this was effectively as long as the landscape following a manual macro, a cure storm, or was seeking a central security guarantees against flushes full scale. indeed, russians attack since 2014. the sign in the middle of the agreement is the 1st stage. i'm not. he was amish like charity batch. i. yeah, we'll probably play the full conversation, but what it happened is that j. d, that had said, president job, i was terrible. you know, we just did awful things. president trump is wonderful. she does diplomacy and wants to. lensky heard, quite rightly is justification of these us russian talks cutting out in print, cutting out drugs. and he responded by saying, trying to explain, in fact,

how russia, in fact, has negotiated. they have negotiated with russia and russia has bought away from attempts that agreement since 2014, including 2019 and russia has continued to kill him. and russia has continued to seizing a territory and tried to split off your plan, all of which is true despite what we might hear from you. we're just in just a minute. uh, j events, then even a straight events. uh so what kind of diplomacy you're talking about in shady vance rather than answering that question, just jump them, stroked and said he was being disrespectful. he was playing to the cameras. he should be grateful to donald trump. in other words, val, down before the king, trump for the go had been stolen, key drops, and it devolves from there. the effect of this is to fold, and i'll set this up the discussion 1st is, is it immediately means that the trump administration is walking away from ukrainian security and indeed european security. they're walking away from the immediate guarantees to protect your friends energy installations, your kind, strong manufactured and but they're also walking away from aspects of cooperation

with nato and working with, for example, the european union. and secondly, what the truck ministration is doing this effectively outlined with the current one not only with the direct costs, but with the criminals propaganda lines propaganda lines that we measure in just a 2nd about how this is all bladder. recruiting is the victim of a proxy, or he is the victim of nato in the west. he is just defending himself, all of which is likely i'm true, which we can take a part if those propaganda line to replay. the question here beyond those 2 fundamental points is, can europe and the international community staff thought to ensure that you credit the resistance that it civilians continue to be protected and half of security and sovereignty that every country should have. thank you, scott scott. so they're saying it was planned bush glen, he's not the only person saying that 2 against one j events and trump, they planned this, they've been,

they've planned to take on. so let's get in that way. do you agree with that assessment of why this went off the rails? well, the way they saw it was not the he was selected schools 1st seemed to be a. yeah. to be disrespectful the way they see it. but i have to agree that what, what, how, how do i define like, like if it was really what was what i meant to, let's just take that point because that is the point that they repeated repeatedly made made that he didn't respect to the oval office did you, hey, run the thing just the way the tone off. so let's see. that was disrespectful. well, the argument from savanski was massive. was criticizing vance for how for vance was calling for diplomacy. now i think this strikes to defend from it to which was that the united states is pushing very hard for it to time some basic negotiations which takes into account some of the realities on the ground. now again, the,

the reason why this conflict again in, in, in the oval office was because it was, i think i've been poorly planned in advance. that is, that the documents for the natural resources into us a very ambiguous. and i think one of the reasons for this was that i'm actually going to resolve some of the issues, which was, what would the ukraine getting the return? so the security guarantee, so, so a key issue that is student and the crating and so wanted security guarantees for, for, to some extent, for these resources. while the trump administration did not want to give these resources simply because they see it as being a pathway to world war 3. and the way the american see it is that the and that the security guarantees can provide the terms for russia. but it can also create incentives for, for a ukraine to restart the war, so they will get americas support on their side if they want to re conquered territory. so i think we saw this happening from both sides. this are

a bit to yeah, i'm the blow magic language that okay, both i can see stories, golf, or the trauma to just verbally disagrees with you. i'll bring him in in a moment. but michael, that points about this being badly planned. i mean, the planning for this really was old on from the american side. was it not? and trump is really the one who holds the cards when someone comes in into the oval office is trump who let the cameras stay to watch what normally would be a behind the scenes close go me to or yeah, you, you, when you hit the nail on the head, i mean this is clearly an opportunity for trump to throw red meat to his maggot base and you know, project himself with strong and powerful and the deal maker. but i, i think actually, as i wrote in my world briefing blog today, i think there was more here than met the eye. and our 1st contact list i think was indicating this is that it looked like a little bit to script

a little bit too much. like a set up. i think it was actually a truck for the landscape. what might have been happening in the background is that rare, or the elements deal that was being negotiated from the truck point of view. perhaps they've got to water down. they didn't, they didn't have what they wanted in it and they decided let sabotaged it. and at the same time, let's humiliate the leader of ukraine, who is also very popular in other countries as well. but it's, it's absolutely despicable behavior. i think this was the trump school yard bully diplomacy on display. having said all of that, so what i'm hearing from friends and contacts here and ukraine is kind of 5050 different reaction. but some say that perhaps it could have been a little bit prepared and i'll give you one example there in that horrible meltdown . i was under date events or trump who mentioned of the visit of mister zalinski and his party to pennsylvania in the closing weeks of the big campaign. and um,

i said back then it might have been and even on now to 0, that what that was probably a political miscalculation because these guys who are the holders of power right now have long memories. and they're very resentful. they're very angry and now they're using that against themselves. maybe some missteps from before, but i'll try a sorry mr. zalesky will likely come home as a hero because at the end of the day he did stand up for your crime. and michael is 1 point one another point i want to raise with you quickly. i mean, this was the landscape was automatically sits on teach watson to you. i mean, i watched presence lensky and going to his news conferences over the last 3 years, various countries around the world during the 1st year of the war. he didn't speak english or tools anyway, he didn't have good enough english. and when he gives a news conference, normally he offices questions in ukrainian when report is offs on in english. he was, he was after a disadvantage from from one wasn't the in that full match. yeah. for sure. and i

think um, i watched him carefully over the years, he looked very tired and of course grew a very frustrated and of course he was ridiculed for not wearing a suit. well, that's kind of his, you know, a trademark of signature. so, you know, we see, come to think of it, we see the saddle, vice president alone most in the old little office dressed. i think very disrespectfully and sunglasses and baseball cap. kids running around. so the decorum of the oval office has followed a long time ago. under mr. trump and you know, the other thing does quickly, it's if my calculations are right, this is the 50th month of the trump both presidencies. and you would have thought that he would have learned that thing or 2 about diplomacy and you know, handling liter as well. but this was absolutely despicable in an embarrassment for america. yes. but scott, could you not put it the other way? trump spin around so long, we sort of know how trump looks. if soleski fell into

a trap, should he not have seen it coming? and we have had the experience. and i know this is just on the style of the substance, but we have had the experience of all the leaders. we saw the french president, the manual macro, and the british prime minister kissed alma in recent days in the oval office. they were smiling, they were phoning, they were flattering king abdullah, so smiling stoically, even as trump said things, but he really strongly disagreed with should. so let's give take him the baked. well, like mike, why was watching this on sky carefully? and i think the best thing to do is just analyze, why is the lensky responded? the way that he did and contrary to what plan. so this would have been very, very carefully planned between the your pins and ukrainians. the macro visit is connected to the star visit, which is connected to the launch control. because of the attempt to get some troops secure to guarantee specifically putting usa,

our power in poland and remaining up to cover deployment of troops to protect facilities in western europe. right, such as energy infrastructure, such as pro manufacturing plants against russia is the tax of the railroads. deal was to be the 1st step to it. but i think what's the, what's the new immediately going into that room is, is the trump in vance. we're not going to work with him to get the security guarantees. he knew that had gone. and when vance, he got frustrated because there was a lot of this information being put off a lot of the pro kremlin lines that we heard from glen. but somehow, the security guarantees mean that ukraine will attack russia, which is nonsense. the truck's main motive is to prevent world war 3, which is really nonsensical. it's actually just to make money and the look good in photo opportunities. and when's the last the effect of lee got that line from j events on the opposite trunk throughout the big diplomacy. put yourself in his shoes that he isn't present. c,

2019. you print for the past 11 years has tried diplomacy. they've tried diplomacy, where the neighboring country that remember has seized part of the country has seized crimea. that has tried to split the country even before 2022 with fibers warfare with special forces, with electronic warfare, cyber warfare, this information. and that since 2022, the country which is killed tens of thousands to be printing civilians and has supported hundreds of thousands including when have $20000.00 children. and zalinski made that response, and he did it politely, which said, look, we tried diplomacy, which is absolutely true. we tried diplomacy. we tried it in march and april of 2022, with the as simple agreement when russian was trying to overrun change. and it was russia that backed away from that agreement. i don't know what was going to say, but it was the rush of that back away from that agreement by opposing the conditions. and what's a wednesday is hearing is the us are going to deal with russia on rushes turns,

which is russia is demanding that it'd be able to annex for regions of ukraine even though it doesn't control some of those regions. it is demanded that the us actions be lifted, and it is demanding that you'd probably be neutral and demilitarized words, let her put and put it on wednesday. that you probably haven't government that is acceptable to moscow. letting your name is being invoked several times. both of the other panelists, i think, disagree with you, your chance to respond. yes sir, i am not sure where the disagreement comes in disagree or is the document time. this is the some of the most of the biggest documents i've ever seen in terms. so who would the watts and the condition to surround it? so i think there's a very, it was a very indeed very, i'm vigorous. so i, i don't really disagree with that, that it could have been an ambush. that is the way that i think it's a landscape. of course the, the should have been much more diplomatic in his language about the way that the advanced jumped in. it's, it's hard to imagine that to you would have reacted so fiercely if you haven't had

the green light in advance from chum. so i think they have had some pressure. they just started off quite politely. but i think that if so, lensky refused to follow towns past during the war. i think that probably had planned in advance to increase the pressure on savanski, which of course came off expressed in a very bullying manner. so i don't really understand you feel about the context of recent weeks. i mean, you, perhaps you can see a reason, right. so let's keep much of being wild. he was called a dictator. by trump, he was told, perhaps that the war was ukraine's fault when it was russia that invaded ukraine 3 years ago. and i'm already, even though there's no peace still signed, russia is reaping the benefits just a matter of hours ago, in this stumble that were talks between the us and russia and russia is going to have an impass of the box in washington dc. zalinski per probably had

a reason didn't t to be so good by the way, things are getting, you know, sir, he said feels fair and secure about his main life. so that's not the real strange thing about the word didn't really start 3 years ago. i think it's quite obvious and more started in 2014. you began when the nato countries supported a to a new claim that has to new york times reported as well on the 1st day after the cool and to see i. and then my 6 began to move in the already establishing secret basis along the russian border. so an european diplomats have confirmed this is one of the reasons why the russians in data is what with and when it comes to is stumble. so 3 years ago, this is very clearly not the russians who've walked away and never actually heard this argument before. it's what we know is from both the mediators both this around this and the turks west at the ukrainians. and the russians are very close to deal . this will probably take less than i want to very quickly bring scott in because i do want a very quickly respond to that give you 22nd scope because i do want to keep looking

forwards rather than back. oh, absolutely, yeah, but to point, i mean that's really bad. this information that you got, 1st of all, but my dad revolution was not organized by the c i n m i 6 c. i knew my 6 did not establish secret basis to support them ident revolution as options learners. secondly, if you go to the documents from the is simple conference and if you follow the track of that, and if you talk to the ukrainian mediators who were there and other officials who were there when the deal was close in april, the russians and post under conditions that include further restrictions on your credit to military included further restrictions on your kinds political choices. in other words, effectively say you cannot have alliances with or you cannot have went through the western countries. and it didn't post political conditions on the authority of ukraine, including over part of his country. okay, so it's a job tell you that you've had more than 20 seconds. right? let's move forward, michael. so let's see, is it seems trying to still salvage the situation. he says he believes the

relationship with trump come, the salvage, the went on fox news, that's where people go when they want to talk to trump top. trump's not talking to them, and he produced this rather detailed a statement when he landed in london quite a long statement. he's produced here and he seems to say in this statement, but it's crucial to have president trump's support, and we need the security guarantees. but the question to you is, the security get guarantees will rely on trusting trump and all they will send a think a tool. yeah, exactly. yeah. and everyone here and ukraine, of course, remembers the 1990, isn't the budapest memorandum where ukraine handed over its entire nuclear weapons stockpile to interrupt shots in return for security guarantees including from the united states. so that is very much in the minds of ukrainians. and i think i of the times there was a lot of nervousness here with us. let us get going to washington,

not because of the way he would act, but because of those minerals deal, a lot of people here talking, describing it as giving way, way too much a way for very little in terms of security guarantees. but i think if there's any kind of positive news looking forward, but it's all very up to you right now, is that, you know, at the moment you crank and probably go according to so many l as until march or april with the us military support. it has and also i believe the share of contribution of us military to create it has gone from about to 70 percent mark to around 40 or so. and of course ukraine is producing a lot of drones in weaponry on its own now. but there is also, of course, a realization that europe test doesn't have to fire power to replace anything very quickly. but some what, another quick point because i know we want to move on is um, there are 3 things that could happen very quickly from the trump side. that could be very damaging to claim number one. they could switch off to star lake uh,

communication system, which the military relies on instantly. of course, a lot, not the most crumbs big bother you who has control over that correct the shuttle gardener or what is the coffee? and then secondly, um uh, god forbid that say americans stop sharing satellite dental with your credit is because they need that for targeting information within russia. and then thirdly, most importantly for ukrainians in clinic, people here in odessa and the board near me is uh, if they were to disable the patriot missile defense system, that would leave you. crane. very, very exposed, but you know, with uh, someone is on hand and an unpredictable, as mr. trump is very angry, right now. one or all 3 of those things could happen were in a very, very dangerous time. i can't overemphasize it. okay scott, it all moves now to london with european leaders all gathering for a summit. what does a to now do you expect unity and is there not a problem here that all of these leaders?

yes, they say they support ukraine, but none of them want to criticize trump. we sole macro and stomach in the oval office. they all roll treading very, very carefully themselves. and i think 2 things happen. um, the 1st is, is that your task to stop at all? um, michael has made the points very clearly that in fact, the share of, you know, your europe provides the largest amount of a both military and non military to ukraine already. and they're stepping up to military assistance and you have to commit to that. you have to talk about how you can have a security guarantee which can have your p and or power. not us your power and cure summer candidates out actually, uh, before the truck for lensky meeting yesterday. you have to commit to the humanitarian aid that continues. you have to commit to providing your defences. that might be an alternative to the patriots, such as the german air defense systems. you have to have joined up thinking, even if you cannot cover all of the usa. but secondly,

what you have to do is you have to provide that solidarity and the support that took place. and i think what was striking yesterday, it was overwhelmed by truck because he starts all the oxygen out of the room. but within moments of that press conference, you have well over 20 europe and leaders who would express heart felt support to ukraine. almost every leader except from victor were bound upon recruit courses very close to, to mr. fulton came out and said that what was important was continuing to support the pregnant people and their representative presence lensky. and i think some of them will display that. and i think to answer your other point there is they'll leave the door open for trump or the trump administration, because remember the ministry such as donald trump. okay, so let, let me bring in glenn, because the old are in no way very close to russia on the border. they're telling me how are they going to view this in moscow? i mean, people say they have seen that meeting with absolutely. but of course, if it means that there is no peace deal or no end to the war,

that's not good news for content is as well they have 2 options. so again, it's worth pointing out that trump is i'm giving away anything for free here. the worse over that is so the ukrainians don't really have much man power less. the nato doesn't have much more weapons to send and we see the front lines are collapsing. and this is why it's important to recognize realities on the ground as press to a piece. so, but again, for the russians, they see this one dilemma one, they can go for the territories. that is said, for example, let's say that the native continues to threaten to expand if they have the option between the best in nato or the site in russia. and they will, they will, the next a, this region says, well, have to have the option of a deal which trump to pursue it presents, then they're willing to accept a neutral, a desk with a new crime. now, i think that the russians would be, who would prefer a diplomatic agreement if they can, the result what we never were able to resolve after the cold war. and that is a mutual acceptable post cold war settlement, where the rest of the force piece of stability isn't for nato in this military

infrastructure to continuously expand upon towards the russian border. so of course, i do think that there had been better leave because i think many were worried that after the storm or, and the crew on that the europeans and the landscape was going to be able to pull and tangle united states into this war. and that's what the security security guarantees were intended to do, letting you say ukraine is collapsing, certainly they are losing ground, but losing ground extremely slowly starting to to load. guess today, michael bowes, acute scott lucas and glen decent. stay tuned for continuing coverage from our teams. on the ground and ukraine and reports from washington, dc and all that summers in london analysis to an algebra dot com. we want to hear from you go to our facebook page, that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story, or next find us at a inside story for me change phase and all the inside story teams. they say bye for now. the

i have the right to boycott, anyone i want to and the state has no business getting involved in that gods chosen and blessed us because we protect israel. i want to continue. do want to state level all that i can't support the 3 part series explodes, the implications of us and people who called lower the freedom of speech and 1st amendment rights more about the issue whatever i'm looking for. so my thing for talk to, in, quote, on which is 04, right? this is human appeal has been making the most of your messy. our team successfully deliver your charity to those who need it most. across the muslim world, we are feeding, building, caring, tooling, planting, fuel refined,

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