the, did you realize that's what the vision is? the new to the movie has and goes head to head with full, mr. elected president, rhino but clarissa nga, i am really important even before you are born. i know we feel so much. i called to head to head on al jazeera, a deafening political crisis in bosnia herzegovina, field tournament region. band, state police and judiciary officer leader is convicted of on the mining the national constitution. both the us and you are condemning the move. so what might happen next? this is inside storage, the hello and welcome to the show. i'm sam is a then a new and was sitting political crisis in bosnia herzegovina. also the parliament

of the autonomous entity republic, a subject also known as r, s band, the national police and judiciary from operating that the leader of the bosnian serb region. miller adult, the now calling on fellow asked nick stubbs to quit the federal police and judiciary. all of this follows delta x conviction last month for undermining the constitution. oh, he's been defiant in response, ignoring a summons from the national prosecutors. he's been sentenced by the national quote to a year in jail and a 6 year ban on holding public office. both new and state officials say delta x moves amount to accrue the you and the us embassy and savvy of opium condemning the both the and sub lead. they say he's threatening the stability and territorial integrity of bosnia herzegovina. you know, before we go to what's been happening on the ground, let's 1st take a look at the background. current political arrangements complex and stem from the

1995 data and peace agreement. that deal ended the wall following the breakup of yugoslavia. data and set out to main autonomous entities in bosnia herzegovina. one is public, a set of sco seen here, which is majority as nix, sub the, all the is known as the federation. it's home to estimate crowds and balls being most, vince, each of these areas has its own government, parliament and police. the central state also has its own sets of these institutions in the capital, saudi eva, but above them is the office of the high representative that office maintains implementation of the dates, having a quote and kind of arrive decisions by any authority in the country. looks full all of this without guess shortly about 1st, this report from wilson dies on a stand off between the leader of bosley is similar to a ton, this republican service and the central government meeting of fresh political

crisis and the country ravaged by war in the 1990s, president miller, red toyota, is defying a summons from the central government. after you was convicted in february of undermining the country's constitution that overseas a fragile framework for power and territory to be shared between positive muslims, crow outs and serves. on thursday, dick signed laws prohibiting the cooperation between republic, a sub scott and the central authorities in san diego. always ok when you saw the, let's do these laws and now forwarded to the official gazette. that'll be printed over nice and will coming to force the day after which means on friday. we will of course, follow that very efficiently and very efficiently implement these laws of the internationally broker date and peace accords brought an end depositing his war in 1995 and gave extensive powers to an official known as the high representative to ensure its implementation. the national and community remains firmly committed to

peace and stability in this region boss. and that's a governing uh good. continue to move forward on it's european tough. it does x hard line stance is part of a drive for republic, a service good to split away and has prompted us sanctions lack of international investment and worsening economic conditions have we can support for godek. but at a rally before his day in court, dick supporters reaffirmed their backing for him on his shoulder. not sure what sort of we should defend our republic because it was borne from blood in regarding the president. no one can do anything to him. we are here, it is impossible to judge something like that. oh sides customer. so this quickly. these are they are judging our president because they want to leave us without homes to expel us from this area. that has never happened. all the people here said that the law, the country, and everything that belongs to them. godek also claim support from serbia's president alexander budgets and hung gary and prime minister victor or bon moscow

has also denounced the charges brought against him. reports on fridays, said the republican service, the officers had begun moving against state police. the bosnian state security agency chief denied that his officers had been forced out of their headquarters in bosnia luca products. defiance of the central government and the high representative could endanger 30 years of peace in bosnia wilson and dies ard elza 0 for inside store. well that spring on guess into the show we have joining us from buying the a luca sort of john mozilla. it's a member of parliament and president of the s and s the that's the governing policy in the republic. a set of sca in san diego codes, but seen a co founder of democrats size ation policy council. that's a think tank and then los angeles. yes. mean we out of age, a senior,

a non resident fellow at the new lines institute weston ball consent to a well come tool of you. and if i can start with cooked in saturday, eva. so could, is this, is it fad? say this is the most serious crisis to hit boston who since the end of the war. i think it is fair to say that it's the certainly the most direct challenge to the territorial integrity in state. go to bosnia herzegovina as defined in the dayton agreement. and as reinforced by the, the international community, that definition is changing. i'm sure we'll get to that. um, but up until for the past 30 years, almost as you know. i think the challenge is yes, i'm sorry about that. i, i've, so i thought you are finished, i'll let you finish the thought, go ahead. could i have the real question is what, what the, what the europeans in particular are going to do to a whole that agreement, given the current constellation. all right, and that is

a question we'll come to life about. i wanted to ask asked me that this point, i guess one of the big questions is 1st, will the central government authorities, the national government authorities, in bosnia may, can move to try and the rest, the president of the bosnian autonomous entity. miller, i don't think now that he's failing, that he's just going to ignore cold orders. he's going to ignore summons from state institutions of what we've seen today. 2 fucking state institutions behaving very responsibly. they're moving very deliberately, the constitutional court of boston, who is presently evaluating these laws. we expect they will be filing an emergency in junction within the next few hours. at that point, obviously, the prosecutor's office will be up to that. we will see them opening up a investigation, although there are rumors that an investigation is obviously already been open. i think at this time, but his name was he isn't as early as all but he's been issued with the summons and

he says he's not going to come on on so that someone's by the prosecutor. yes, of course. i think the reaction, i'm sorry to have us 1st and foremost, lot of trying to get all their ducks in a row. and then it's, and when it comes to the time it was, you know, they will have to be arrested. which unfortunately anticipate, given his current behavior, may very well happen within the next few days that that can be accomplished successfully. although, as we've seen over the last 2 days or so from reporting, including from home here in media, it is quite likely that mister w will not wait to be arrested by policy and state police. and that he will in fact, leave the country most likely to be heading to budapest. all right, let's bring sort of john into the discussion. so john, i'm guessing you have a very different perspective on what's happening. let's stop. first of all, with the question of what will be the response of republicans subscribe authorities . republicans subscript police. if the central government does make moves to apprehend melora and they'll take in reading the problem concern scanner. so let's

start moving with up to the some of the laws that's prohibited and the movie i'm not recognizing any implementing the assistance of the prosecutor's office of the course of the boys as to going to the state agency. i will disagree with the colleagues especially for me because the way honest which is saying he's saying that. ready is going to be a rest of i think he's not going to be honest because uh, the state agency, the cpr doesn't have a policy, doesn't have power to confront. the police of the republic of subscribing to arrest and the going to be arrested. and that's for sure, it's not the bank that happened in next to several days. but what we are doing, what, what is key or important of the verdict of the games to the doctor is a legal. and it is also a legally, it is actually the jeff violation of the constitutional order because the whole that the next to the priest asked me for my minister, i got

a cold sort of germany connected to the med, most of the criminal. uh, that's in the, the people who are not subject to don't suffer the does the whole don't, don't subjects to his, uh, orders, uh and it has to be sentenced to the prison. it's really a medieval and putting him in the position as a colonial has hang on sort of done. hang on to his office though, was created by the de tone agreement. right. so you may not like his offerings, but he does have, according to the data, an agreement which is the de facto constitution of, of bosnia. he has that, oh no, no, no, it doesn't have the bone power. so that does not really, we cannot find the bone, but what are the things that they think, disagreement the bone powers were adopted much more laid turned to bone conference of the beast implementation console, where the forwarding invested as members of the business with isn't custom. well

cool, and the intention of the fire presents do. stewart brings and decisions, but not to do it and act them all to amend the constitution in the room. i liked of official, so it within the data piece agreement, we didn't. the constitution onyx for it is said that the parliamentary assembly of the both has to go over now is the institution which is uh, in charge of the inactive legislation. so adopting the button so you're getting the wrong thing again, but middle, right, don't it is a fine even central and national government institutions. now it's not just a matter of the national guard, right. what? no, there is no national government did because that was established. it's in, it's in the annex is of the, the enroll agreement, full, sorry, great general from the free. i think that you're not very well informed about these, these institutions. you're trying snare the induce in the, you know,

they are not there. please read the constitution of both and have to go over and there is no prosecutor's office court or state c prostate investment investment be investigating the c panel. definitely. now that was crated in 2004. but i'm saying that the, the general court framework agreement for peace in bosnia herzegovina assigned in paris in 19 and the 14th of december 1995. it did create 2 entities and one national government by do you not know that in how, how government caused some of the means? that's okay. those council, those absolutely ministers do you not recognize they have any all 40 over the entity, governments. but the counsel of the ministers, the 1st uh, what is written in the day, from the disagreement, there is no authority to do the survey. the judiciary wasn't in charge of the entities and in 2004, then it was the compact. this is a transfer,

it's through the whole thing and that's the going to level offset are the higher representatives amended the, the, the lowest level of live and active village installation. and uh, but we cannot find these institutions in the constitution. there is no a port or prosecutor's office, or c par agency within the constitution of both have to go into the constitutional and the court of the boss has to go. when are they? uh uh, there was a trial price and there was a verdict in it, but, and based on the law, enacted by the christy schmidt who is not responsible and he's not in, he doesn't have power to an extra village installation. okay, so he says what you've given you a lot of somebody to the basement piece agreement and the constitution, right. so we are preserving that next heights agreement. all right, let me, let me bring coating cause i can see he was raising his eyebrows and shaking his head. so i think you have something to say about that perspective of the

institutions which was set top on the national level in boston. yeah. all they illegitimate and illegal, a northern spot they were, they were decided by internet to enter a governmental agreement, including with mueller ongoing support, several of these institutions. and he was willing to validate them in a vote that he made in 2006. unfortunately, the constitution was not invented and the so called a book package, but he was willing to put all those elements into the constitution. every new institution that was built in post war state building and bosnia herzegovina that had been agreed by both the federation and republican service that he had agreed to . so this is revision is this is an attempt to renegotiate from, from the current position. everything that happened before is illegal. we want to go back to a state that has no power, no due to sherry nobility, a truck or tri organized crime and corruption,

which is one of the things that the state court, the convicted, and it has power to do. so i don't think that that's a legitimate argument. that is a consistent republican service, the argument that everything that has happened is a legal and we want to go back to original date and, but i don't think it holds water that's bringing, i guess the, the bottom line question you asked me is this risk a country that is heading back to will, you know, it's not the country that's headed back to where, um, but just the one very quick thing i, i do want to point out the absurdity of what my colleague and valuable guys just says. because your audience that was listening would have heard a man who's arguing basically the statute law was unconstitutional. right. is the equivalent of saying that because the, the, i is not in the american constitution. that's and i'm constitutional body. right. so it's kurt has obviously explained virtually every aspect of the street to i think is currently trusting against is something that in previous moments he and his party had supported including something that is not completely been lost. a

certain in this conversation, buttons through another. once was an error as well, very striving support, for instance, advising her to be in as nato integration as well. but be that as it may know, budget's giving is not headed towards conflict um, 1st and foremost because mr duddy does not have some power that some of his predecessors had, for instance, in 1992. when certain nationalists forces, again, sort of a legally attempted to succeed from boston, here to give you the ultimate lead resulting in the boston genocide. that was a time when serve nationalist forces and the regime in belgrade at that time. and just let them know, most of which has far, far greater power at their disposal and still were unsuccessful in trying to break above the mr. that it has a fraction of a fraction of the political and kinetic power, that people are kind of on kind of direction to the most, which had, she does not have the capacity to break up the box, right? that's not to say that we're not headed towards the potentially or it sounds like you're saying yes, mean of the, the regional situation has changed. i mean,

us vista sort of, john is a diplomatic resolution possible tool. do you see any pathway whereby bosnian serb authorities and the republicans sub sco, they withdrawal these laws and decisions which are defined the central government institutions and also mean that i don't think gets to stay in office and you know, the sort of the front hanging over his head is removed, is that a diplomatic way out of this? a s, i think that there is and we have adopted the decision and the nationalism. we have for problem concepts, go with the seminal provisions. and we also invited to the federation of the ones that are going on the other entity to negotiations above the future. uh set up the constitutional and legal setup of the most have to go into. and i think that there is going to be a very low to the decision of the cost of the court of the goals has to go with it . but i must say to me suddenly armitage because of the fact that vi is not in the

us constitution but the u. s. has a totally different constitutional and the legal to set up. then both have to go tonight. or if this is the angle of sex symbol. if you wants to adopt a law and to uh, and organize and to establish the institution, you have to kevin called the additional provisions that's uh they have to enable enables uh this is excellence. i also want to say that's uh yes. maybe we can say that the intern entity agreement that's existed, but these are interrupted. the agreements were violated in the late the late the so we have the rights to uh, retreat to uh, the additional research on the internally about why i say, what is your perspective that you, i mean how low mine is that can i can i just saw your question 1st i was, i mean it's, i let me, let me explain the class you with me. let me explain the question good, and then i'll give you a chance to answer it. but it sounds like you're all going to return to the

situation as it was in december 1995. if you can see that the, the dates have an agreement did set top 2 entities in one state. but if there are no, yeah, face institutions whatsoever. how is there is a functioning states, a tool that there are the easy to so so and the level of the entity. so this is the, how is the incident and how, how is the response if there are no states institutions because data and as i'm sure, you know, was simply in agreement when the war with the process of building the state to come next as well. you have a different kinds of states that the centralized and the different kinds of federal structure, most of the countries. so they're out of state institutions, but nobody says in the beginning the, that's the data should be the institutions of the both have to go on that level and

also the entity, the judiciary, after the 5 years, you organized crime, sorry, a, the john or just so general chance to finish is still and then i'll come back to i promise, in a 2nd. look, it's still gonna go ahead. so what do we want to say here? uh, that's the christy schmidt and the law she and next to and that she doesn't have the rights to and to use the bone hot powers invested in. that's the case. this was the violation of the constitutional order and also as well when the court of the goals and that's the going on. and the prosecutor's office decided, uh they made decisions based on the diesel because there is no possibility they do that. the higher the present that this inc constitution of the both as a governor ken and next the laws. and this is something that they did a violating the both of the vacant piece agreement and the constitution of both of

them. and i think that there is a possibility to meet in the future to uh for the 2 entities. and we also invited the under the entity to negotiations. okay. reviews the visiting division, you know, we want to discuss and we want to know go show they call you because you made that assignment so yeah. all right, thank you. then let me just give a chance. 44. you asked me to briefly as well. yes. me and then we want to move on from this point, but i know you have yes, i'll come to you in a minute code. go ahead. yes, me for sure. so 1st and foremost, the important thing time besides here is that there is no dialogue between the entities. this is like saying that we need to have a constitutional dialogue between kentucky and a higher right. there are state institutions in bosnia herzegovina and amendments to the constitutional more than i heard anything that can be enacted exclusively through the state parliament of boston. excuse me. not if mr. moseley, mr. dudley would like to have a serious conversation about institutional rearrangements and by the here to be, you know, they can do so that the state parliament, which they obviously have refused to do. so they also have the option of going to

the constitutional court, which they have refused to do so, and then a very case that they have done. so they have been struck down and they also have the option of going to the european court of human rights, which they have also refused to do so. so very clearly there's an attempt to your to yesterday, not exactly the nature of the utah jazz point, though they don't recognize the institutions of the state though, like the bosnian constitutional cold is what your stuff. that's the well, that's the point where it goes. but us, we are recognizing the institutions the most is going on. we are recognizing the bottom at the bottom of the team, that costs a little bit of service. all right, what is the problem if you want to negotiate, like yes, maybe to the sides. so john, sorry, let slip, he asked me to finish his point. now go ahead. okay. yeah, exactly right. as, as the, as you just heard, we have existing institutions. we have existing state institutions. there actually is a very clearly defined process of governance in bottom units. so given that, and the problem is that let mr. dudley again,

his total partner attempting to do is something that is not viable in any country on earth, which is that southern national administrative units, such as the entities, unilaterally pull out of national laws or existing national institutions that doesn't work anywhere those rotations need to be reading the re negotiated at the state level within state institutions. okay. i think we've got a brief couple of minutes left. so when i give, could a chance to come in, cause he's been waiting patiently and waving his hand, going go, go for it. well, i mean, i think, i think there's, there's a contextual element that needs to be needs to be frame, which is this comes at a time. but mueller, how don't it has been, never been as, as much under pressure as he is now. his popularity is low, he's low on money. he's reliance on support. from external actors. you mentioned oregon but also alexander serbia code. how do you know the low?

how do we know his popularity is the um, choice voltage would argue anyone, the lifestyle, the ever the lation look at the population drifting in republic, a search skill, which is a hand, even though the federation, where people are leaving people are leaving the whole region. i take that point, but the reality is with this go and so done the next gift code, a chance to finish the thought, to go ahead. ok, record feedback there. there is a legitimacy problem for the entire political class, but mueller, rod daughter has, has the points and showers of being the man responsible for every but everything and republican service cuz it doesn't appear that there's one boss. he's been boss for 19 years. so there's something wrong there. he's the only one to blame and that's, that's why a lot of people are not leaving their state institution jobs because they're not confident they're going to get paid. if they do. all right,

let me put the question so john, i'll go ahead, go ahead. the problem is here is that uh, there is no uh to negotiate the from the racial process to go into. there is no, the credible and legitimate political power even for the nation. both as a going on, as we can negotiate with any further. so what's the going on? you can say that there is door to and then don't because the power, okay, does it use the president of the republican service guy? and if you want to negotiate with the republican service guy, you go to prison. if i go to the united states, and then donald trump is the president, and yeah, i negotiated, we did the long term. ok. person for the original. all right, let's go in a minute. we make the web job problem that's going to play some. okay, let's get we have to bring down the reply to that. okay. reply to that. yeah. me what, what am i calling in by you located? suggesting is that uh, the state government,

which is to say the federal government of the united states or the national government of germany should be negotiating with a may or, or with a regional governor. that's not how constitutional arrangements work. in bosnia. that's not how constitutional arrangements work anywhere in the world. okay. the national administrative units do not negotiate, but the national government resolves, active veneration. all right, if i just want everybody to be made here. yeah, pretty. so go ahead. yeah, i mean, the other point is look at the federation entity and the rest of us here, it's giving it is considerably more democratic unfortunately than what we presently find to be are essentially. so no, no one person. okay, because we're running rapidly out of time. i want to ask the basic question of the bottom line. they say that can never be a war in the balkans without the being regional appetite for it is the regional and international appetite for a conflict right now. when you read everyone from the or pins, the donald trump let america nato and the russians, and so they are on the other side. the international constellation is not positive

of bosnia herzegovina b question mark for 19 years has brought out the worst and serbian croatia. i think what you're seeing go to do is try to catch the low 222 voltage in oregon to get connected to trump and hope to hopefully get him to weigh in on, on his side. uh, at the popular level. there's no appetite for conflict. but the conflict always comes from above in the balkans for political benefit. it did the 1st time in 199192. and so could we have a war all on 1992? no. could people get hurt? yes, and then the dynamic would change, so that's why the european union needs to reinforce it's the turns on the ground. make clear there will be no succession because it will not be permitted. and then i think you'll, you'll see the entire political situation calm because the possibility of

leveraging fear will be dissipated. i like that sentence overcome and dissipating fear. because we are out of time, let's hope that com and dissipation of fear holds across. thank you so much to on guess i'm afraid we are out of time and others can go on. but so john mazda elisa codes, bettina, and you asked me, and we on of it. i'm fine q 2 for watching. you can see the show again, any time by visiting our website al jazeera, don't com. for further discussion, head over to our facebook page, that's facebook dot com, forward slash a j inside story and also join the conversation on exxon handle is at a j inside story. from me, sam is a that and the whole team for now is to find the in a world where discrimination is right. 5 women deal with as long as she looked at the

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[000:00:00;00] the carry johnston. this is denise how the i from coming up. the next 16 minutes us president donald trump threatens most sanctions against russia. so he's considering large scale measures because most scale was pounding. you create a thoughtful, failed theory, and officials say securities restore within the township of the thousands of people are killed and fighting as taught regime loyalists most rates and occupied westbank