right, how many words would i have to change in this legislation? thing use it to flush receipts of anyone who supports blank was or is involved in protesting for environmental reason. and it's like 10 word pod, 3. the template on out is there a deepening political crisis in bosnia herzegovina, the autonomous region band, state police and judiciary officer leaders convicted of undermining the national constitution. both the us and you are condemning the move. so what might happen next? this is inside storage. the hello and welcome to the show. i'm sam is a band, a new and was sitting political crisis in bosnia herzegovina,

off of the parliament, of the autonomous entity republic, a subject also known as r, s band, the national police and judiciary from operating the leader of the bosnian serb region. miller, i don't think now calling on the fellow asked nick stubs to quit the federal police and judiciary. all of this follows delta x conviction last month for undermining the constitution. oh, he's been defiant in response, ignoring a summons from the national prosecutors. he's been sentenced by the national call to a year in jail and a 6 year ban on holding public office. both new and state officials say delta x moves amount to accrue the you and the u. s. embassy and savvy of open condemning the bosnian serb leader. they say he's threatening the stability and territorial integrity of bosnia herzegovina. you know, before we go to what's been happening on the ground, let's 1st take a look at the background. current political arrangements complex and stem from the

1995 data and peace agreement. that deal ended the wall following the breakup of yugoslavia. data instead of top 2 main, autonomous entities in bosnia herzegovina, one is public, a set of sco seen here, which is majority as nix, sub the, all the is known as the federation. it's home to estimate crowds and balls being most, vince. each of these areas has its own government, parliament and police. the central state also has its own sets of these institutions in the capital, saudi eva. but above them is the office of the high representative that office maintains implementation of the dates, having a quote and can override decisions by any authority in the country. looks for all of this without guess, shortly about 1st, this report from wilson guys on a stand off between the leader of bosnia is similar to a ton, this republican service guy and the central government meeting

a fresh political crisis in the country ravaged by war in the 1990s president mueller, red toyota is defying a summons from the central government. after you was convicted in february of undermining the countries constitution that overseas a fragile framework for power and territory to be shared between positive muslims crow outs inserts. on thursday, dick signed laws prohibiting the cooperation between republicans, serfs, guy, and the central authorities in san diego. always ok, when you saw the, let's do these laws and now forwarded to the official gazette that will be printed over nice and will come into force the day after, which means on friday. we will of course, follow that very efficiently and very efficiently implement these laws. of the internationally broker date and peace accords brought an end depositing his war in 1995 and gave extensive powers to an official notice the high representative to ensure its implementation. the national and community remains firmly committed to

peace and stability in this region boss. and that's the gulf in uh good, continue to move forward on it's european tough. it does x hard line stance is part of a drive for republic, a service good to split away and has prompted us sanctions lack of international investment and worsening economic conditions have we can support for dos. but at a rally before his day in court, product supporters reaffirmed their back in for him on his shoulder. not sure. what sort of we should defend our republican because it was born from blog in regarding the president. no one can do anything to him. we are here, it is impossible to judge something like that. oh sides customer. so this quickly, these are they are judging up president because they want to leave us without homes to expel us from this area. that has never happened. all the people here said that the law, the country, and everything that belongs to them. dick also claimed support from serbia's president alexander budgets and hung,

gary and prime minister victor or bon moscow has also denounced the charges brought against him. reports on fridays said the republican steps, the officers had begun moving against state police. the bosnian states security agency chief denied that his officers had been forced out of their headquarters in bosnia luca products. defiance of the central government and the high representative could endanger 30 years of peace in bosnia wilson and dies r l to 0 for inside store. well that spring on guess into the show we have joining us from buying the a luca set of john mazda elisa, a member of parliament, and president of the s and s div. that's the governing policy in the republic. cassette school in san diego codes, but seen a co founder of democrats size ation policy council. that's a think tank and then los angeles. yes. mean we out of age, a senior non resident fellow at the new lines institute weston ball consent to

a well come tool of you. and if i can start with cooked in saturday, eva. so could, is this, is it fair to say, this is the most serious crisis to hit boston who since the end of the war? i think it is fair to say that it's the certainly the most direct challenge to the territorial integrity in state go to bosnia herzegovina as defined in the dayton agreement and as reinforced by the, the international community. that definition is changing. i'm sure we'll get to that. um, but up until for the past 30 years, almost. uh yeah, so i think the challenge is yes, i'm sorry about that. i i've so i thought you are finished. i'll let you finish the thought. go ahead. good. i am, the real question is what, what the, what the europeans in particular are going to do to a whole that agreement, given the current constellation. all right, and that is

a question we'll come to life. how about i wanted to ask asked me at this point, i guess one of the big questions is 1st, will the central government authorities, the national government authorities, in bosnia may, can move to try and the rest, the president of the bosnian autonomous entity. miller, i don't think now that he's failing, that he's just going to ignore cold orders. he's going to ignore summons from states. institutions of what we've seen today because by the state institutions behaving very responsibly, they're moving very deliberately, the constitutional court of us and it's getting as presently evaluating these laws . we expect they will be filing an emergency injunction within the next few hours. at that point, obviously, the prosecutor's office will be up to that. we will see them opening up a investigation. although there are rumors that an investigation is obviously already been open. i think at this time bosnian was here since as early as all but he's been issued with the summons that he says he's not going to come on on so that

someone's by the prosecutor to yes, of course i think the reaction, i'm sorry to have was 1st and foremost, lot of trying to get all their ducks in a row and then it's, and when it comes to the time it was, you know, they will have to be arrested. which unfortunately anticipate giving us current behavior may very well happen within the next few days that that can be accomplished successfully. although as we've seen over the last 2 days or so from reporting including from home your media, it is quite likely that mr. dudley will not wait to be arrested by boston state police, and that he will in fact, leave the country. looks like until you're heading to budapest. all right, let's bring sort of john into the discussion. so john, i'm guessing you have a very different perspective on what's happening. let's stop 1st of all with the question of what will be the response of the public a subsidy authorities, republic a subscript police. if the central government does make moves to apprehend melora and they'll take reading the problem concern scanner. so let's start moving with up

to the some of the laws that's prohibited. and the movie, i'm not recognizing any implementing the assistance of the prosecutor's office, of the courts of the boys as to going to the state agency. i will disagree with the colleagues, especially for me because the way honest which is saying he's saying that. ready is going to be a rest of i think he's not going to be honest because uh, the state agency, the cpr doesn't have a policy, doesn't have power to confront. the police of the republicans subscribing to arrest and the, the going to be arrested. and that's for sure, it's not the bank that happened in next to several days. but what we are doing, what, what is key are important of the verdict of the games to the doctor is a legal. and it is also a legal. it is actually the jeff, a violation of the constitutional order, because the whole that the next to the priest asked me, its former minister,

if i get a cold sort of germany connected to the med, most of the criminal that's in the, the people who are not subject to don't suffer the don't subjects to his uh, orders, uh and it has to be sentenced to the prison. it's really a medieval and putting him in the position as a colonial has hang on sort of done hang on to his office though. was created by the de tone agreement. right. so you may not like his offerings, but he does have, according to the data, an agreement which is the de facto constitution of, of bosnia. he has the, oh no, no, no, it doesn't have the bone power. so does, does not we, we, we cannot find the bone, but one of the things that they think, disagreement, the bone powers, were adopted. much more laid turned to bone conference of the beast implementation console, where the forwarding invested as members of the business with isn't custom. well

cool. and the intention of the fire presents do. stewart brings and decisions, but lots to enact them all to amend the constitution and thrown elected officials. so within the data piece agreement, we didn't. the constitution onyx for it is said that the parliamentary assembly of the both has to go over now is the institution which is uh, in charge of the inactive legislation. so adopting the button. so if you're getting the wrong thing again, but middle rad delta is a fine, even central and national government institutions. now it's not just a matter of the national guard, right? what? no, there is no national government did because that was established. it's in, it's in the annex is of the n roll agreement, full, sorry, great general from the brief i think that you're not very well informed about these, these institutions that they find snare the induce in the know they are not there.

please read the constitution of both of us to go over and there is no prosecutor's office court or state c, pa, state investment investment be investigating the c panel. definitely. now that was crated in 2004, but i'm saying that the, the general court framework agreement for peace in bosnia herzegovina assigned in paris in 19 and 14th of december, 1995. it did create 2 entities and one national government by do you know that in how, how government caused some of the means? that's okay. those council, those absolutely ministers do you not recognize they have any all far and see over the entity governments. but the counsel of the ministers, the 1st uh, what is the reason the, the dates and disagreement. there is no authority to, uh, traditionally, the judiciary wasn't in charge of the entities and then 2004, then it was the compact. this is a transfer to the call center,

and that's the goal in a level often are the higher presented to this amended the, the, the lowest level to live right next to the legislation. and, uh, but we cannot find these institutions in the constitution. there is no a port or prosecutor's office, or c par agency within the constitution of both have to go into the constitutional and the court of the boss has to go. when are they? uh, uh, there was a trial, right? and there was a verdict in it, but, and based on the law, enacted by the christy schmidt who is not responsible and he's not in, he doesn't have power to an extra village installation. okay, so this is what we have in the office so that he knew the basic piece of room and the caustic you some. all right, so we are preserving that next heights agreement. all right, let me, let me bring coating cause i can see he was raising his eyebrows and shaking his head. so i think you have something to say about that perspective of the

institutions which was set top on the national level in boston. yeah. all they illegitimate and illegal or not they were, they were decided by internet inter governmental agreement including with mueller ongoing support, several of these institutions. and he was willing to validate them in a vote that he made in 2006. unfortunately, the constitution was not invented in the so called april package, but he was willing to put all those elements into the constitution. every new institution that was built. in postwar state building in bosnia herzegovina that had been agreed by both the federation and republican service got here he had agreed to. so this is revision is, this is an attempt to renegotiate from, from the current position. everything that happened before is illegal. we want to go back to a state that has no power, no judiciary nobility, the truck will try it, organized, crime and corruption,

which is one of the things that the state court that convicted it has power to do. so i don't think that that's a legitimate argument. that is a consistent republican service, the arguments that everything that has happened is a legal and we want to go back to original date and, but i don't think it holds water that's bringing, i guess the, the bottom line question. yes me is, is this a country that is heading back to will? you know, it's not the country that's headed back to where, um, but just the one very quick thing i, i do want to point out the absurdity of what my colleague and funny look has just said. because your audience that was listening would have heard it, man who's arguing basically the statute law was unconstitutional. right. is the equivalent of saying that because the, the, i is not in the american constitution. that's and i'm constitutional body. right. so it's kurt has obviously explained virtually every aspect of what the strand i think is currently trusting against is something that in previous moments he and his party had supported including something that is not completely been lost. a

certain in this conversation, buttons through another. once was an error as well, very striving support, for instance, advising her to be an as nato integration as well. but be that as it may know, budget's giving is not headed towards conflict um, 1st and foremost because mr duddy does not have some power that some of his predecessors had, for instance, in 1992. when certain nationalists forces, again, sort of a legally attempted to secede from bottom here to give you the ultimate lead resulting in the boston genocide. that was a time when serve nationalist forces and the regime in belgrade at that time. and just let them know which, which has far, far greater power at their disposal and still were unsuccessful in trying to break above the mr. that it has a fraction of a fraction of the political and kinetic power. that people are kind of on kind of direction to the most of which had, she does not have the capacity to break up the box, right? that's not to say that we're not headed towards the potentially or it sounds like you're saying yes, mean of the,

the regional situation has changed. i mean us vista sort of john is a diplomatic resolution possible, a tool, a do see any pathway way by bosnian serb authorities and the republicans sub sco, they withdrawal these laws and decisions which are defined the central government institutions and also mean that i thought it gets to stay in office and you know, the sort of the front hanging over his head is removed. is that a diplomatic way out of this? a s, i think that there is and we have adopted the decision and the nationalism. we are for problem concepts. go with the seminal provisions and we also invited to the federation of the ones that have to go into the other entity, negotiations above the future. uh, set up the constitutional and legal setup of the most have to go into. and i think that there is going to be up to you uh to the decision. all the costs of the court of the goals has to go with it. but i must say to mr. brockovich because of the fact that vi is not in the us constitution. but the u. s. a has

a totally different constitutional and the legal to set up. then both have to go tonight. or if this is the angle of sex symbol. if you wants to adopt a law and to uh, and organize and to establish the institution, you have to have a constitutional provisions that's uh they have to enable enables uh this is excellence. i also want to say that's uh yes. maybe we can say that the intern entity agreement that's existed, but these are interrupted. the agreements were violated in the late the late the so we have the rights to uh, retreat to uh, the additional research on the internally about why i say, what is your perspective that you, i mean, how much is the, can i can i just saw the question 1st i was, i mean i let me, let me explain the class you with me. let me explain the question and then i'll give you a chance to answer it. but it sounds like you're ongoing to return to the situation

as it was in december 1995. if you can see that the, the dates had an agreement did set top 2 entities in one state. but if there are no, yeah, face institutions whatsoever. how is there is a functioning states, a tool that there are the easy to so so and the level of the entity. so this is the, how is the incident and how, how is the response if there are no states institutions because data and as i'm sure, you know, was simply in agreement when the war with the process of building the state to come next as well. you have a different kinds of states that the centralized and the different kinds of federal structure, most of the countries. so they're out of state institutions, but nobody says in the beginning the, that's the data should be the institutions of the both have to go on that level and

also the entity, the judiciary, after the 5 years, you organized crime, sorry, a the john or just had a general chance to finish is still and then i'll come back to i promise in a 2nd look like it says, yeah, go ahead. so to, uh, what do we want to say here? uh, that's the christy schmidt and the law. she a negative and that she doesn't have rights to and to use the bone hot powers invested in. that's the case. this was the violation of the constitutional order and also as well when the court of the post has to go now and the prosecutor's office decided, uh they made decisions based on the diesel because there is no possibility. they do that kind of the present that this inc constitution of the both as a governor ken and next the laws. and this is something that, that they did a violating the both of the vacant piece equipment and the constitution of both of

them. and i am saying that there is a possibility to meet in the future to uh for the 2 entities. and we also invite the entity to negotiations. okay, reviews the visiting division, you know, we want to discuss and we wants to negotiate a cause. you make that as long as the right saying to them, let me just give a chance. 44. you asked me to briefly as well. yes, me and then we want to move on from this point, but i know you have yes. i'll come to you in a minute code. go ahead. yes, me for sure. so 1st and foremost, the important thing to upsize here is that there is no dialogue between the entities. this is like saying that we need to have a constitutional dialogue between kentucky and a higher right. there are state institutions and bothering her to the mean that amendments to the constitutional more than i heard, it's gonna be not can be inactive exclusively through the state parliament department heads give you that. if mr. moseley, mr. dudley would like to have a serious conversation about institutional rearrangements and by the here to give you know, they can do so that the state parliament, which they obviously have refused to do. so they also have the option of going to

the constitutional court, which they have refused to do so, and then a very case that they have done. so they have been struck down and they also have the option of going to the european court of human rights, which they have also refused to be so. so very clearly there's an attempt to your, to yes, i mean the nature let, let me when you saw james point though, they don't recognize the institutions of the state though, like the bosnian constitutional cold is what your stuff. that's your guys. well, that's the point where it was, but us, we are recognizing the institutions the most is going on. we are recognizing the bottom at the bottom of the, of the entity and they've done some of them in the service. all right, what is the problem if you want to negotiate, like yes, maybe to the sides. so john, somebody let slip, he asked me to finish his point. now go ahead. okay, the exactly right, as, as the, as you just heard, we have existing institutions. we have existing state institutions, there actually is a very clearly defined process of governance and by the end. and so given that and the problem is that let mr. dudley again,

his total partner attempting to do is something that is not viable in any country on earth. which is that solving national administrative units, such as the entities, unilaterally pull out of national laws or existing national institutions that doesn't work anywhere. those rotations need to be region the re negotiated at the state level within state institutions. okay, i think we've got a brief couple of minutes left, so when i give could a chance to come in, cause he's been waiting patiently and waving his hand, going go go for it. well, i mean, i think, i think there's, there's a contextual element that needs to be needs to be framed, which is this comes at a time, but mueller, her daughter has been never been as, as much under pressure as he is now. his popularity is low. he's low on money, he's reliance on support. from external actors. you mentioned or bond,

but also alexander serbia. good. how do you know the low? how do we know his popularity is the choice? we'll just would argue anyone, the lifestyle, the she ever in the nation. look at the population drifting in republic, a search skill, which is a hand even of the federation where people literally think people are leaving the whole region. i take that point, but the reality is with this go and so done the next gift code, a chance to finish the thought, to go ahead. okay, are good feedback there. there's a legitimacy problem for the entire political class, but mueller, our daughter, has, has the points and showers of being the man responsible for every but everything and republican service, cuz it doesn't appear that there's one boss. he's been boss for 19 years. so there's something wrong there. he's the only one to blame and that's, that's why a lot of people are not leaving their state institution jobs because they're not confident they're going to get paid. if they do. all right,

let me put the question so john, i'll go ahead, go ahead. the problem here is that there is no uh, to negotiate the from the for the reason the book says to go in there is no, the credible and legitimate political power. even for the nation, both as a going on, as we can negotiate with any further. so what's the going and you can say that there is don't think and that does because the power, okay, does it is the president of the republican service guy. and if you want to negotiate with the republican service guy, you go to present that if i go to the united states and then donald trump is the president. and yeah, i negotiate with the donald trump, who is the person who for the original. all right, let's go in a minute. we make the web job that's going to play some. okay, let's get we have to bring down the reply to that. okay. reply to that. yeah. me what, what am i calling in by you located? suggesting is that uh, the state government,

which is to say the federal government of the united states or the national government of germany should be negotiating with a may or, or with a regional governor. that's not how constitutional arrangements work. in bosnia. that's not how constitutional arrangements work anywhere in the world. okay. the national administrative units do not negotiate with the national government. all right, i think we saw as active veneration as i just want everybody to be made here. yeah . briefly go ahead. yeah, i mean, the other point is look at the federation entity and the rest of us here, it's giving it is considerably more democratic unfortunately than what we presently find to be are essentially. so no, no one person. okay, because we're running rapidly out of time. i want to ask the basic question of the bottom line. they say that can never be a war in the balkans without the being regional appetite for it is the regional and international appetite for a conflict right now. when you read everyone from the or pins, the donald trump let america nato and the russians, and so they are on the other side. the international constellation is not positive

of bosnia herzegovina b question mark for 19 years has brought out the worst and serbian croatia. i think what you're seeing go to do is try to catch the low 222 voltage in oregon to get connected to trump and hope to hopefully get him to weigh in on, on his side. uh, at the popular level. there's no appetite for conflict. but conflict always comes from above in the balkans for political benefit. it did the 1st time in 199192. and so could we have a war all on 1992? no. could people get hurt? yes, and then the dynamic would change. so that's why the european union needs to reinforce it's the turns on the ground. make clear there will be no succession because it will not be permitted. and then i think you'll, you'll see the entire political situation calm because the possibility of

leveraging fear will be dissipated. i like that sense. and so if it's calm and dissipating fate, because we are out of time, let's hope that com and dissipation of fear holds across. thank you so much to on guess i'm afraid we are out of time and others can go on. but so john mazda elisa, codes, bettina, and yes, mean we on of it, i'm fine q 2 for watching. you can see the show again, any time by visiting our website al jazeera, don't. com. for further discussion head over to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash a j inside story and also join the conversation on exxon handle is at a j inside story. from me, sam is a that and the whole team for now is to find the, the economic collapse, the east of domains and the civil war. i just want to be clear,

i read opposing the roger parts of the why we with the book they bought even to, you know, we need to finish that. is it on the know, did you really? that's what the vision is. the new to the movie has and goes head to head with for mr. elected president, rhino but chris thing go i a really important even before you were born. i know we're so much i called to head to head on al jazeera, the

serious president calls on the asset rashid wireless to surrender of the fighting, killed thousands of people the time sammy say, then this is al jazeera alive from dell hall. so coming up i'm finding it more difficult, frankly to deal with you.