the, the, there's no limit to how far a dream contains. key stuff in your own adventure now counter and we could settle saddam slipping to another civil war. fight thing in the northeast is endangering already french. all power sharing agreements with the war ongoing and neighboring. saddam, with a new conflict himself, saddam means the reach of this is inside the hello cadillac james phase front. you all power sharing agreement in the world's

youngest nation is being threatened by an upsurge in volumes south. so don's presidents, silva, curious as the army, is being attacked by um groups linked to his vice president grant with shaw the 2 or on the opposing sides of a 5 year civil war. before agreeing to rule together in 2018, the violence has been contained to the put no state region unarmed group took control of the city of next year and is exchanged heavy weapons file with government troops. it's unclear who started the fighting. a general is among those killed and un peacekeepers of also being attacked and the capital t, as all the troops to surround the shows home ministers and officials allied with him. i've also been detained. kit is from the think the ethnic group white. my shaw is a new uh, the president has a just the public to state out to the fighting. this fee is grow ethnic violence may escalate to you.

i am said that our country will not go back to it though. i didn't know who the south so don has had a brief but to evident history. shortly after gaining independence of the country to send it into civil war. in 201-340-0000 people were killed. the conflict ended in 2018 with silva kit and request shaw entering into a power sharing agreement. under the deal, the 2 factions was supposed to merge into a single national constitution was to be written and elections held. but none of those things have happened in recent years. the civil war a neighboring saddam has also bought more instability, sell sit on,

all the exports of being completely halted of the major pipelines were disrupted. we'll go to a panel of guests to discuss this further in a moment, but 1st let speak to nicholas heis and he's the un special representative for south sit down. he joins us from to, but thank you very much for joining us on inside story. a simple but very worrying . question for you. how close is south saddam to another civil? will the principal consent? hey, read this back into conflict. we think would be catastrophic. entered searching the b rim addition to the conflict and the to show awards they've had since their independence and thank you live in and more to the region

which has enough floors and grab a junior as we speak as you know, better than anyone else. there are all sorts of political groupings in south to dawn, but there are 2 main factions, one linked to the president, one linked to the vice president who is to blame for the color, color, and breakdown. we would probably receive those warranties just being responsible for the ex collection of changing. and we are also going over the apartment is the mastery. can you me and he knows we have been touring for discrimination. the tension pushed on the car. uh doing that. if the attention would you purchased, it wouldn't begin to be uh, this tension very or of the peace agreement, which currently has good people mourners increase for the last 10 years. your site, people in peace for about 10 years. but it's not a very pleasant life,

for most people in south sit on and frankly, humanitarian conditions without a fresh conflict. i'm pretty desperate on. but the legal furniture to the situation here is the perfect storm. you know, there was demonstrating, trudge over a 1000000 people have come, have structure, but to construct into job that's the neighboring country. a, the, there's been around french inflection. there is real poetry in the country and show, entering from the very shock abstentions, whether it has to deal during damage to the issues such as making piece to you refer to the wall in the noise that devastating conflict in a suit. um, how much is this a result of the spillover from that? because the oil from the pipeline was the main results, the main money coming into south saddam. and i've seen some analysts say that

actually the corruption and the spoils from the oil was the glue that was keeping the country to go use the rushing from the electric water and we use a to, to show, to go around the pressure version of conflict and the kid to is something we believe the principal financial strain coders can deal with and we get an order in a way in new ways. but the number library extension for some time being on the on the lead is to exercise restraint. patrick caught up on the phone numbers to exercise restraint. you are, i hope you don't mind me saying a veteran, un official. you've led you an operations in iraq, afghanistan, somalia, you probably know a failed state if you see one is south sit on

a failed state. now, the florida state, because i would want to believe it as a potential to create and to to create the conditions. much debility in democracy is need, is watching to demonstrate the nation's remaining ship, required to, to ship and country in that direction. and that would require the leaders to work together and to both kinds of trust. there is a prerequisite for referring to pc we but those leaders have not done not. you've had a peace agreement, supposedly since to a 2018, but coming out with the constitution coming up with the elections unifying the army . none of those key things have happened during the last 7 years. and you have the to same man at the top of south to don who being the since the countries

independence is time for a new political generation. i'm full, these 2 men to step a side i think we would have to go to the other 2. people could say that i think the country as a whole rest are creating conditions for the lease in cash to create a exchange common purpose funding for that plan. a coming nation good to, to make clear priorities and to create, to foundation of a new stage. you had a role in southern saddam before it was even south saddam. you weren't one of those involved in the mediation in the peace process that led up to independence in 2011 . those were exciting days as you look back and look with things have gone now,

what is your reflection on how badly things have gone wrong? location to stage originally and profound change, or disappointing because the jones you will remember. so i have students when she was on the new chicago and was greeted and you know, she just failed to live up to the arms. richard schneider understand its packaging support is facing. the project should have structure drawn. nicholas hayes, some special representative for the un set country general and head of the un mission in the south. sit on the thank you for joining us. thank you. well, let's go now to our other guests today. joining us on the panel from not really be i don't both well, international crisis groups project direct to for the whole of africa. i'm from rome. we have now go out to pool, who is south so so soft to dawn,

research at human rights watch. thank you both for talking to us. now, what can i start with you? you heard the you ends top now. i'm the heads of the un mission on miss, which has about 14000 peacekeepers in the country saying his principal concern is civil war. he said they are on the precipice. do you believe that's the situation? and it's also known as the best base because the situation is nasir. you cannot be right in nice solution. there are many other trigger points, many other flesh points in the country. not there is just one of the latest that we have seen since the beginning of the year. um, what we are witnessing and nasir has had a devastating impact on civilians because since constructs the renewed in mid february, thousands of civilians slept at homes and are in desperate conditions without access to health, without food, without access to drinking water. and you know it's not ser up another and much of

thoughts done has to be facing as you went to the crisis into the color of break. so you, the situation continues of the, the consequences for computers will be quite, quite dire. but even then at the beginning, in february we solve the use of heavy weapons. we are too heavy weaponry. want to shells and shooting strikes. i'm going to, um, the governor said it was a i o positions, but also civilian severe area as well. worship. and i think about 10 serious were, were killed. and i think a un peacekeeping was injured in um, in the february. and also last week to us staffers along with many others lost their lives. so no, sir is just one issue right now. insults and on. but there are other areas of concern including west of west end equal to are you aware of the last many weeks

that have been cashed as to how displaced thousands to be useful that holds. there's also other areas including south and central equal to yeah. where the government has continued accounting, such as to compete with the national salvation font, which is not potty to a piece deal. so there is significant concerns that this little flash point might you need to to this. it is not handled well. if the, if there's no, if there's no disconnection, that consequences, especially in this situation where thoughts about has been moving from one emergency to another, in a very unstable region. dr. situation group escalate, supposed to be, it's all on the i good that just gave us a quite a good summary of the flash points around the country. in addition to that arrests taking place in the capital, juba, you heard the, you and special representative nicholas heis. i'm saying both sides are responsible

. how do you see it? who is responsible for the current spock in violence? i won't even talk about both sides themselves to them. but um, as you also mentioned, your interview with, with he some of the other major players here is the world's you dan. um if you can call a a player as well. so i think, you know me, this is power steering government in south to dan has always had a lot of problems. there's been ongoing tension. the 1st vice president who was previously the revenue we are, we are going to charge, you know, he's surrounded by president tiers forces into bar, which is obviously a tense situation as it is. we have lots of escalation and various points within the past few years. i think what makes this time difference is the amount of pressure the war on sudan is putting on the political system on south sudan, both in terms of a lost revenue, but also in terms of the conflict itself, which is now very much raging on south syrians. border and a very, very polarized regional environment. and would you have some countries supporting

one side, some countries the other and it's just getting very difficult for solves to data, which is very fragile. very weak has all these visitors within it, it's getting, it's getting. but what we're, what we're really worried about is basically if you have a political crisis, you have a security crisis that this could merge with the warrants to dan and, and, and grow quite b. yeah. what can you take up that point about the war in the much bigger northern name, but the seem to be 2 things that the, the, the double refugees some had fled to saddam from south saddam. but coming back again and other refugees coming from. so don and also the economy and the, the shutting down i'll see is no help pricing any way of the oil pipeline. well, the 1st is because we have 0 one, b and people. the house leg. uh, this is donald moore, the, to subsidize. and this since 2023 has really excited to be to it already has

created a huge stress on this, you materials up to insults and on those who are coming to coming back to coming to subsidize majority. and so majority of the subsidies return these who have fled multiple times. this last house with offices done. and many of them had to feedback . but there are lots of also many cities who have fled to south and on. and you and have multiple of the other products in the region. and so we're seeing that the conflicting institute on which human rights watch, you know, it has to be documenting since the beginning and human rights, which has been called for the protection of sympathy and mandates. as well as for the awesome, the green dot for to be extended across the whole country. and so if the conflict in saddam is not addressed, and you know, so don, insulted on despite the separation, have continued to be attached at the hip because of many issues socially but

politically and economically. and so it is not a wild guess that as the continued as the conflict into the dog continues. and it also makes the boldest pores, the possibility of flowing between the 2 countries. very easy as well. so it creates a much more test situation insulted on. and now what we're saying, you know, uh, what's also very concerning and you know, reminds us of events of 2013 and the peer to thoughts of dogs. war is the rest or key or positions me does. and that's right by the security service to continue this arrest. and so in spite of the fact that the president has actually called this arrest continue and the detection, all key does continues, arbitrary detections, not charge due process. and then this in itself is, is

a word important, a loan. i believe you were a journalist 14 years ago at the time of independence and covered the situation in south sea dawn. i mean, it was a very big picture, wasn't it? at the time, this is a country with the oil rich is it has a timber minerals. if it has a live stock, it can export what's gone wrong. well, you need more than oil revenue to build the country. i would say in, in fact having oil revenue when you haven't decided how to share that oil revenue or have any institutions to manage it, might that actually make the thing worse? so i think, you know, like you said, i was around at the time i tried asking a lot of these questions. um uh saying how were we so sure this will go right. there's a lot of signs and we'll go very wrongly. and what i found at the time is that people basically had over confidence that we know how to build a nation that we know how to build

a state. and i think some of that filter down to south needs a lead. unfortunately, where they, where they felt like, you know, with the international support, they were going that uh, you know, that they didn't have to think too seriously about some of these matters include, you know, and in the meanwhile they just fell into civil war instead. and they basically have a scramble, a sort of king of the hill scramble for controlling this, this oil revenue. and how many people calls out to be in the most corrupt country on the planet. which, which, you know is what happens when you have a joint part of oil money, no institutions and no political settlement about how to, to govern the country. so i think there's a lot of blaine to be shared among many. i also think frankly, something like this probably wouldn't happen nowadays where there's, you know, it was an error in which people still believed in nation building and state buildings to a degree that i think uh, you know, now now is no longer there. a nag. well, if we look at it, of course, after independence, it's suggested on became a completely separate country. but there is, it seems a little bit of

a sad symmetry between what has happened in saddam and south saddam certainly in. so dom a will that's tied very much to, to man, let me ask you about the situation in south dawn. how much does it come down to these 2 liters? well, given that they have dominated the political scene of the 2 and readers are not the only signatories to the peace deal, then not the only stakeholders to the p sacraments. we also forgot to forget that civil society, women leaders, a conduct makes over so the signing of these piece agreements and why we tend to focus on the 2 main principles who have shaped, you know, the political see, you know, south dog for, you know, since 2005 out of the tassels. yeah, john graham. and there are also a lot of the stakeholders involved of the african union in the u. n. e. got in

various doing this and who are involved in this piece process takes about holding these processes to this individuals to account. but also about ensuring that such a, a mechanisms that have been put in place such as an undergo such as sessions and travel bonds that the vision, you know, implement some of these mechanisms that have been put in place. and that there are processes to was ensuring accountability for the many horrendous for richard crime . so we have documented in many others have documented says country copy 2013. so at the end of the day, yes, which are in kia, unprecedented kia uh, fox, but the are seem to be the, you know, the 2 people that hold much of the interest insults a dog, but as many singles besides the active, this will, will tell you the country is bigger and the future belongs to many subsidies.

yeah, good. just to be clear, the one that point you were making about crimes being committed and these being the 2 man who's being in charge and, and they've been puting against each other for so long. what's the position of human rights? what should these 2 men actually be? facing charges in because in human rights abuses, serious crimes have been committed said where there is command responsibility of individuals who are responsible for the serious crimes should be facing trials. and if there is evidence spinning up to the to top men in to do for crimes committed by that respect to false is then that should be accountability to what's the precedent as well as to what's vice president, the 1st vice president which are all and what's your view on these 2 leaders, i mean, would you agree that the time has come from both to leave the stage,

but the only way that might happen was if there was a deal that would lead to an election. and of course, there was a, there was a plan in 2018 that was supposed to even be elections at the end of last year. and this is a country that's never had elections a yeah, correct. uh, since it depended since 2011 south sudan has never managed to hold elections. i might say the uh political uh, docking right now 12, but is no longer about elections. it's more about uh, president kia and um his succession. um, i think the general view is that there will probably not be elections or least cure will probably not step down a while he is still alive. and so a lot of the jockey now i'm on the south. we political lead is basically what happens, you know, what happens when our present carrier is no longer around, essentially, and what that means for for react much are so, i mean, we might see a situation where these, you know, where, where these 2 men continue to hold south sedan um you know,

for as long as i hold it hostage in a sense for as long as they can. but i will say, i mean, we talked about these 2 men, but they both hold together respective political coalitions. and even when they're gone and you know it's out to them is likely to still face many of the problems unless they can sit down and essentially do what they should have done before. and dependents would just sit down and have a proper national discussion about what power in the country looks like. what you know, how they will structure the country, how well revenue will be spend, etc. and they just didn't do that before their independence and no one meet them. now what you mentioned earlier on the international and regional actors in all of this. there are lots of them. mr. hastens united nations, the force. he leads 14000 peacekeepers. he has on the ground, you have the african union involved, you have the regional grouping. e got, do you have the european union? you have what is known as the troy cut, which is 3 countries that were involved from before the time of independence. no way the us and the u. k. has the international community got to accept some blame

for the mass that is self. sit on. yeah, absolutely. you know as much as thoughts and these leaders, you know, uh, take um, you know, shoes. uh, get a lot of lean uh for the suffering that has been important on subsidies. there is a lot more that the reach an international community can do. and if you are to look back, of course, hindsight is a beautiful thing. but if you look back in the last 2 years that have been missteps as well. um, chief of which, you know, as human rights watch, we have been advocating for the establishment of a hybrid court that would, that would try investigate and try individuals who are responsible for the most serious of abuses. this costs which dr. communion has, you know, pop into the stablish months has not been established dates. when you look at the regional ne bus of the regional players. since i'm somebody who was established in

2018, they have found ways to ensure you know, to, to where this off and who has been violated, including with, you know, the participation of regional access and regional plans will facilitate said, you know, the transfer of weapons and other issues as well. there's also calling things what the are of costs. we're seeing a flurry of each national and you know, we have to give credit as well. the, the statements of being made a very strong statement. judging for the solution. that's a good step, but this needs to be sustained. and the key to let allan, we've to talk to about international attention. one country that's pulling out its people from a jew, but diplomats and others is the us. the us was one of the most in susie asked that countries in the creation of south to dom,

yet the us under the trump administration, has all sorts of cots is the us doing what it should given the us is role throughout the early days of saddam is playing is pop now, as you know, to us played a major role on south sedans, independence that i think, you know, most within the region and, and south to down. i mean, many, basically credited the us with securing south to dans independence and us as more or less washed his hands of south to day. and i would say for quite a number of years now, i think, you know, what was the end of the trump administration is an even greater a step back as well. so, i mean, you know, in terms of countries who are really still involved. busy down can make a difference. we're mostly looking at african states, especially neighboring regional countries. kenya, ethiopia, south africa is still a major player when it comes to de, escalating this kind of crisis,

trying to prevent the full out. so the words, it's those places as well as the ongoing un mission that people are going to be, are going to be looking at to, to try and help resolve this or at least mitigated. thank you very much and thank you to both all guess today. i mean both well on the go to full and nicholas heisen who joined us earlier. if you didn't catch all of the conversation, no problem, you can watch it again. any time you want on our website, elgin 0 dot com. what should we discuss next time your thoughts and suggestions of welcome go to a facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash a j inside story. or use x or handle is at a inside story. i'll be back in this chat very soon to learn from you james space and all the team here in doha space safe and well bye. for now, the ashley can stories from african perspectives to music, reduce the menus to say,

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