as the sun rises brilliantly here, the history was written. it became theory is here, the beast and totally the timeless journey full of philippine president, rodrigo detached a is onto a rest. he's facing charges of crimes against humanity phase more on drugs. the international criminal court says how soon as we killed on the his watch. so how will this plant domestically? this is inside stored the

hello can on james, by the full, the president of the philippines is set to stand trial for crimes against humanity in the hague. rodrigo detach a has been linked to thousands of extra traditional killings during his controversial war on drugs. it's a waiting for the international criminal court since it's rare for such a high profile figure to be brought to justice. bought domestic politics may have played a role in his arrest detach. i had made an enemy of the sitting president. so is justice beings. busy of doors international, little being recognized for political gain. and what does this mean for all the powerful figures who are wanted by the i c. c, we'll get to a panel of guests in a moment. but 1st, this report from clinton on once the most powerful man in the philippines, rodrigo detroit, a is taken away as a prisoner. he was arrested by police after returning from hong kong and left minute the on tuesday to tear to is that stand trial at the international criminal

court in the hague, in the message recorded before his departure. dirty said he's being deprived of his legal rights. so what is the role and what is the guy that during his time in office do dirty, let a controversial war on drugs. the i c. c warrant accused of crimes against humanity for extra judicial executions. police records show more than 6000 people were killed. some say the death toll is much higher. his legacy divides the philippines . his actions were condemned by many but others supported tough samsung crime. when he was president, things were peaceful, there was less crime and there was order when he was in power. he did not deserve the streets in somebody and i think the arrest was the right action for the people who want to justice for the dates of the children to get peace for those who were

killed. that is to deter days. arrest is a win for the i c c. but there are questions over its jurisdiction. the philippines withdrew from the court and $29.00 team is gone. but the i c. c. and system to can still prosecute. crime is committed before that date. there also questions about the role domestic politics played in the arrest. we did not do this because it was a uh, the right front or it came from icbc. we did this because in order for us to do it and we have commitments to them. and the lived up to those commitments on the lines between 2 political dentist, these the markets and the generic family has broken down. we have present for that . and marcos junior and his allies are trying to piece to tear to his daughter who's vice president marcos decision to execute the ice. if he's warrant has allowed him to weaken a political opponent to turkey has left the country. he wants rules on certain if he will ever return. a man once pulls on, touchable will now have to answer the charges against him. vincent monahan al jazeera for inside story. well that spring,

you know, just to discuss this further and today in manila, in the philippines, we have christina county, secretary general, the national union of people's lawyers were talking about the international criminal court today while we have a former chief prosecutor of the course. and so apollo result, luis moreno ocampo, also joining us on inside story. thank you for joining us on the program. today, luis, if i can start with you, your reaction to this. i mean a to touch a dakota be looking at him for a very long time. was even on the radar when you were the chief prosecutor. no bees joining the court offset the what the isn't the same for me is they say emerging low but or the 5th. and because the parents, it's true to hong kong and then that when he went through the migration

the device. oh there's an arrows. why run again team presented it back in the board, so intern for nothing. 5 written not this took on kind of sort of these direction. hold on. so it did send back to my visa, but then the menu that she was arrested and sent to the international committee got approved. so that was the system is a police recent activity, not pulling the feelings and it's working default. and i think for me to see that it was counting, was suddenly the low and the scores that kristina, i'd like to perhaps come back to the into poll part of this because it may be there is a philippines reason for this will come to that in a moment, but 1st the reaction on the ground, the in manila because it's almost 3 years off to he left office to to take remains a polarizing. so it goes very popular with some, but i guess the one,

the thing people in the country shed whatever that views was, the shock at seeing this once powerful president under arrest. well, i certainly agree address a pleasant surprise for us. of course, an inferior he thing on the other hand, for his support, there's from the side of the victims. we have very long a wait that this why are the are asked? but the moment it came, of course it was a different experience altogether. 3, the see the there today, the most powerful person in the philippines and for a fine, even in south east asia, being beacon and arrested by the same people he had earlier commanded. so it was 30 of us at the same time. and by waiting for the victims a christina, he had, we understand been planning a political role to trying to go to his old job of a matter of the about in men's and now in the south of philippines with the

elections coming up soon. he'd been in hong kong as we heard the rumors of an arrest warrant. why did he come back to sick? well, i don't know. and people have been debating who ever advised him to do so. he went to hong kong to campaign and there was a campaign activity that was kind of a riley or as thanksgiving activity on sunday. he had the opportunity to come back on monday. and there were rumors that he had asked for shyness protection, but he had wanted to go to the main line that he wanted to remain in hong kong. but it had been declined. so we had to go back to the meetings. i left the part of the week and so we saw this arrest in the philippines. and surprisingly, the precedent model course, he used to be the best friends with him. that's what they called each other. and who was the running made of the president's daughter or rather dad,

this daughter i you and put through with this problem is vicki look, operate with the court. originally, the stance of the city being government had been firmed, they will not cooperate the court. they will not recognize the jurisdiction of the court, however, eventually is east up, they soften on their stands also affected by the so called break up of the tandem of the database and the younger michael's. okay, louisa, want to ask you about the idea of arresting a will lead a current or former you with the chief prosecutor of the international criminal court? only 3 people have done that job to this point. we know the well known expression justice needs to be applied without fear or favor, but is it more difficult when you're dealing with someone who is that tie up in the system? and i think it's worth noting to all of us that you brought indictments against. oh,

my boss year and so don lama good daffy in libya. you pursue charges against who are a can ya so late? it became the president of kenya and against william boot time is now the president, the kenya was noting post cases, those charges withdrawal. but when you're dealing with someone at that level, does it, do you have to go through your mind and think of it most seriously about it? and if it, if it's another accused person, the wireless web as utah is truly the same. you have to click the editors as you cannot, but it's a josh is was not planning to the biggest problem is resting, resting ahead of state is she really complicated. that why when you mentioned that kind of stacy might on pricing, but she was seen in position for a year, didn't file she was in jail in so that the page doesn't seem to i see or not. oh my god, that fee was to where he was already invited. busy and got both well in j. k

for many and then was appreciate the the president can can yes, i'm brutal became then one of the hooks. you might be kidding each other's. and suddenly they took the i, the out of what our end as in mckinney to face up official and make it to get to bed. so when someone comes through your mind when you're planning an operation like this, i mean, if it's a really big one, i mean, are you thinking, oh, we ready all we actually going to manage to, to, to, to get this arrest through and all we ready with the case where isn't the wisdom? because if i don't i was doing, but she had that many to say not to do it, but my duty was to do it. and so i checked the evidence. i checked the little i did it. i'm cutting kindly cut and particularly the same for me then. yeah. 141 is that yeah, for people that advisory board to check. so when we have to present, you don't have to check it. that is clear that the lowest clear then is the problem

for the all the good will also joining us. another guest today in manila, richard hi doreen, who senior electra and international affairs at the university, philippines, and also the rise of detached a populous revolt against the late democracy. richard, thank you for joining us. um. tell us exactly what crimes to, to take is accused of. well, thank you for having me and i'm sure that our other guests are more informed me than, than me to look at the merits of the case. but i think the case is extremely robust, as far as the cases are concerned. we're looking at multiple communications, multiple grassroots efforts. we're talking bought, you know, people who were at the parts of the darkness of 2 thirds as warren drugs like me, sir. martha bottled, mister les com, yes. all of them providing these testimony. and we're looking at a very robust, multi year investigation of the by, by the i c. c. and also in for the nation with people who are on the ground in the philippines. i've been gathering every then,

so i think as far as the solidity or boss that's of the evidence is concerned, i think there's no doubt about that. that the debate rodder in the philippines right now is whether the circumstances are on reach to there. there was just automatically we see a way to the hey, was that something that was legally sound and chris so cleared. uh, to be honest about it. i've talked to many luminaries in the philippines or even created a good there did. but feel that perhaps we're talking a little bit of a legal grace on, or at least we're talking about an unprecedented situation because typing menu or young dissipating that cannot detect that comes in, they'll be a temporary restraining order. this will be taken to the supreme court, there to support us with the riley's and that was the latest and on and not. but that's what happened. i think they got complete the all smart that by the markets administration, which has prepared which is prepared to prevent, from calling about the content writing support and prepared to whisking away as soon as possible to the hague. i think that was something that came as a shock to a lot of was well, i've been observing to be honest, a quite, quite fun,

slick avoid then. marcus administration, which has been very wishy washy on the status of their co operators when we die. c . c, not to mention wishy washy on the surface of the jurisdiction of dicey seats, which i think any reasonable legal experts or observer knows that the jurisdiction issue was resolved a long time ago. a, christina, if you can pick up the crimes that he is accused off of it. sorry, sorry, louise, go ahead. if i'm next to gratify the point that he may vary, for example, and normally the phoenician try us to be philippines. but what we think the truck and nicole, the process is different in that why seem to be low as the know team now? they'll know exactly what the process called the surrender. so within the cool, you're gonna leave the next technician. try out the police are asking him because you surrender him to the i think see that see, but it's in books, no exercise and try us no investment or venture. i'm now the only

a forwarded you to this 5 in the future. i think that the judge is on the domestic and not go. no one has previously been going to come to him. yes, thank you for clarifying that. i'm going back to the crime. she's accused of christina vigilante death squads summary executions. um, what amazes me is the estimates of the number of people killed in these anti drugs operations. i've seen them estimate low estimate of $6000.00. i've seen 12000. i've seen 30000. we don't even know the numbers do a what we don't uh, the authority to count these numbers to take that ball would be the government itself. and they are well placed to do that. the official government figure now is $7640.00 killed in r b. i the whole bed in police operations. and we don't know how much uh, out there died in without, with in vigilant kennings or what we called here,

a lighting in find them incidents. these would be motorcycle arriving at the end on them. and then we just shoot in late on the lights, so brazenly that charges with every file that gets to that day of a charge specifically would be crimes against humanity in the initial request of the prosecutor bar to open the investigation. it was looking at up to $13000.00 people killed in the request rather in the warrant of arrest. they've trip it down a bit and have said that the database being invited for his role as the founder of the d. d. s. is the data, death squad as the mayor of the about and that's the president of the state of things. so dispense went 11th of 2019 and the book about numbers. 19 persons killed in davos city by the d. d. s. and the police, when he said 24 persons,

allegedly criminals healed during the time that he was press events. so i know that there's a little bit of confusion about the numbers. but in the eyes the see really, the numbers don't that there. it's the wide spread in system. i think killings the author and that should matter and will be present before the point. i'm luis. i mean he was very public about what he said he was going to do. and then he did his on the campaign trail, he wants that, that'd be so many bodies dumped in manila bay. the fish would grow fat from feeding on them. i mean, does not make the, the case more clear account. well, i don't know the evidence. they know more even to me. so the audience would be debated in course. so what the i can see would offer any federal database, something he did not offer to be victims the front prior. so all the we present that before came across. he will have the right to defend himself, doesn't brothers back to not richard in terms of the i c. c. he took

a very strong line on the i, c. c. he said he rallied against the i, c. c. during his presidency, i've been in 2019, he pulled out of the i c. c. how is that? his his background with the i c c. how is not being seen in manila as people look at this arrest? again, let me think our guest for clarifying the circumstances, the legal circumstances of we seeing a way to turn out that the reason i mention that is because i think that is a narrative that supporters of divergence are trying to push that. you know, this whole thing is illegal, the dice is he has no jurisdiction and that's the kind of thing that i think they're going to keep on harping on. so it's very important for really experts for objective experts to clarify the circumstances of this. as far as the ais insurance unit distinction is concerned. uh well, the philippines was part of the i see, after occupying the room inspections offered 2011 through 2018 of police. so all the crimes that were committed during that time of work are covered by the i is the

c and the last time h i c c has also you should rise of risk against heads of states of countries that are not even a member of okay, let me bring your louisiana real quickly on that i'll not point to the jurisdiction, but he's, is there any gray area here that due to today's noise, can knock you because he pulled out or not? you know, you will define is by get the some of the deputy john to read and decided that that situation that you didn't leave that in 2018. that means it could be investigated in 2019. so before 1119, there's not a problem in to mitigate that, i think with nothing but the game when the day when the state is not the policy and the state by the kind of lead by why they would have policies, they could be mitigated. division between 2 sets of 11 and the 19 i think could be a bit to gain being types. christina, um the current to bring forward or started quickly,

which if i may add in supreme court as also ruled on this issue. last time i checked the syndicate, supreme court has also said that there's, i police residual jurisdiction by the icpc for the year. so the philippines was a access has accessed on to their own statute. so i think if you look at these from multiple angles, these are very 6 and has been resolved a long time ago. yep. okay. let me just, uh, let me, let me bring in christina. now if i can, richard, because the issue of the i see see, seems controversial even with the current president present law costs. and he said it is statement we didn't help the icpc in any way. the arrest was made in compliance with into paul let the trying to avoid the name i see. see in the, in the statements from the government. all they not yes. uh, this is a big issue. and if you really frame it within, within the issue of software to the people i talk to you when they say that, oh,

there is an, a 4 in court that's coming in to try us. it's coming in and their white at one point the data was trying to bring this as an, as an issue of race event. so far it's going to be knows what about nation already as to the west, but we've been see where sovereignty clearly and visual these math or at had when you roll up, when you wrap them up with the issue of sovereignty in another country. wrong, we think that another can be coming in and trying to execute, trying to try to be know we become so touchy. and i think that marcus administration is trying to avoid inviting the issue of the i c. c. and we've seen that even during legislative investigations, they're trying to avoid it, but at the same time supports it. so this is a political matter, but it's the pallets, it's a, it's a political matter, i'm richard. i mean,

detach a still has a great deal of support. does he not? in the philippines, he has his daughter, although she's facing impeachment as the vice president, all the going to be problems down the line politically. as a result of this in the philippines. well, actually the implications domestically are very clear as we speak, the philippines sending it has been driving it speed on conducting a trial off of the potentially a well, there has been an impeachment upside of the very to the vice president by the congress already. so we have been waiting for this, i need to conduct the trial on that, but because many senators are fearing electra wrong and political as a backlash from the do their to base, especially in the know and beside in speaking regions of the country, a lot of the saying that there are some being wishy washy and being driving, therefore they included authentic present in the philippines. so this is important because while i completely agree that the markets administration has been all over

the place in terms of explaining what on earth is happening here, because i think other they're struggling to square the circles, right? you're going to go on and say, you know, you don't have upset the jurisdiction of i, c, c. you're going to go in and say, i don't want war with the 3rd this. and i don't want to be involved in this. and the next thing, you know, you, we schema, we have to consider, right? ok, but, but i think that increase the message here to those senators, or anyone who wants to be doubting marcus jr. he's that he now means business as you know. very well since last year did that. there this, i've been openly questioning marcus junior's legitimacy, the have been events threatening him. i mean, not listened to vice president. one of the reasons why she would face all conviction and remove love is that she threatened to even assassinate president margaret senior. so i think mark was, you know why the conflict avoidance has realized that the moment of truth, that's comp. and this is, i need the central crisis so much it also much as a could happen in the coming base and months when it comes to deciding basement issue. not to mention other potential criminal cases filed against other members of

the do there to find many, okay. once a boss certainly is, i mean, let me, let me bring it and luis on this because i need to look at the international repercussions of this. is this in any way concerning for the i c. c, which is a somewhat troubled organization right now. i think you'll agree, even if the marriage is still the case of that, but perhaps it's being used in the philippines for domestic political reasons. i don't think the, i can see these are probably some problems they want to talk to. you. we know they know the more you can talk to high see what very consistent integrating food thing i got to say after what happy even to get the president then. yeah cool. i'm ready to get the hobby so that to get all the copies now investigated, that was, that is east on top. is that now? right? and so i think it's just that we need to get to these. i'm not going to think about this moment. so when you talk about what happened now in the philippines, infinity and would be a big but it's because of the age of the parents. it,

it'd be, want to go to the beta, how to control that. obviously there's a, but it is a good the legal debate about the evidence and the little so there are many debates and your joe, as in the matching calling, they don't be complicated. took on more control over the managers, including the connection because i can see another cases. but i know been just on the lot that is that the see the other part of the day that would be really be loose. the problem, i think, of detached a, as we know, it was sometimes called the trump of asia. the problem is that trump himself, donald trump, as you know from being the 1st prosecutor of the i, c. c, the us perhaps politically as being the rome statute and the i. c. c's. biggest problem since you started the job. how does the cc continue to operate in these circumstances? where, for example, prime minister netanyahu of israel, as we speak,

is visiting hungry the new or we think the mind is going to be the new shots of germany. another teen support during the past of the i, c. c says nothing. you all who can now come to germany, where i have many dogs. because if you remember about pretty guy in by the busy but she had to go to the to got to the 40 in the conference. but then, but you've got to escape talking about pretty good because the judge is the owner. he's the rest except to be sitting with property in general money with the who is he goes that i don't think that he would go to gentlemen, maybe go to his defense, but no gen money. so that's what today is he said, what we're trying to be the system went below is expected to protect people in the game and got that. i mean, philippines, those people from previous me protection for me, the i the guys that is the, is a piece of the jack is a 4 infinity is a part of the table to christina,

the bad around the world. very quickly. richard. yeah. yeah. may have something i think there's an outage usually goes by mention here, the philippine sides being at the forefront of leveraging international law to protect it solving rights in the south china sea, visa beach, china. and one of the arguments we have been making are to press the government to come clean on. this is this, you cannot go and say we need on floss and international law when it comes to the protection of the philippines. rice visa view china and the southern when it comes to i, c c o, i wanna opt out of international law. so i tell you, thank you. thank you, richard for that point i want to bring in my wants to bring in christina a briefly at the end because we talking about international law or whatever. and i don't want to forget the victims and the family is that in the philippines, what's been the reaction from your clients? it's a, it's been a mix of emotions for many, as we've mentioned that this has been a pleasant surprise for many, it's been a ridiculous just and now that, that emotions have died down or at the stanford video. we're looking at the huge

work i had for convictions, because initially, while initially we've had a few mothers come forward to file these cases. we're looking at thousands of others joining us during dry out. so hopefully we'll be inviting a lot, the more people in and especially that we're looking at other ex, aside from murder, hopefully more we'll have their chips in and the, during the elections, we become more aware of what really happened and how we can make people are comfortable, thank you very much and thank you tool, i guess today luis, but i know tempo christina county and richard. hi dari. and if you missed any part of our conversation, no problem. you can always watch the program again. any time on our website, alex, is there a don't com. we want to hear your thoughts to go to a facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash a j inside story. 10 terms of defined as one x were at a inside story for me, james space and the team here in doha. stay safe and well bye. for now,

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