the, the, there's no limit to how far a dream contains. stuck in your own adventure now counted as a full philippine president, rodrigo detach a is andre arrest. he's facing charges of crimes against humanity. if he's more on drugs, the international criminal court says houses be killed under his watch. so how will this plant domestically? this is inside stored the hello can on change phase before the president of the philippines is set to stand

trial for crimes against humanity in the hague. rodrigo detach. a has been linked to thousands of extra traditional killings during his controversial war on drugs. it's a waiting for the international criminal court, since it's right for such a high profile figure to be brought to justice. bought domestic politics may have played a role in his arrest detach. i had made an enemy of the sitting president. so is justice beings. busy doors international, little being web, who nice for political gain of what does this mean for all the powerful figures who are wanted by the i c. c, we'll get to a panel of guests in a moment. but 1st, this report from clinton on at once the most powerful man in the philippines, rodrigo detour today is taken away as a prisoner. he was arrested by police after returning from hong kong and left manila on tuesday. territories that stand trial of the international criminal court in the hague, in the message recorded before his departure. dirty said he's being deprived of his

legal rights. so what is the role? and what is the car? during his time in office 230, let a controversial war on drugs. the i c. c warrant accused of crimes against humanity for extra judicial executions. police records show more than 6000 people were killed. some say the death toll is much higher. his legacy divides the philippines . his actions were condemned by many but others support his tough samsung crime. when he was president, things were peaceful. there was less crime and there was order when he was in power . he did not deserve the streets in somebody. and i think the arrest was the right action for the people who wanted justice for the dates of the children to get peace for those who were killed to deter days arrest is a waiting for the i c. c. but there are questions over its jurisdiction. the philippines withdrew from the court and $29.00 team is gone. but the i c. c in

system to can still prosecute crimes committed before that date. there also questions about the role domestic politics played in the arrest? we did not do this because it was uh the right front or it came from icdc. we did this because in order for us to do it and we have commitments to them. and the lived up to those commitments alliance between 2 political dentists. these, the marcos and the jeep cherokee family has broken down. we have present for the mark of junior and his allies are trying to impeach to tear to his daughter who is vice president marcos decision to execute the ice. if he's warrant has allowed him to weaken a political opponent to turkey has left the country. he wants rules on certain if he will ever return. a man once built on touchable will now have to answer the charges against him. vince and monahan al jazeera for inside story, the well that spring, you know, just to discuss this further and today in the, in the philippines,

we have christine to county secretary general, the national union of people's lawyers were talking about the international criminal court today. while we have a former chief prosecutor of the court and so apollo result, luis moreno ocampo, also joining us on inside story. thank you for joining us on the program. today, luis, if i can start with you, your reaction to this, i mean a to touch a dakota be looking at him for a very long time. was even on the radar when you were the chief prosecutor. no bees joining the court offset. the weather isn't the same for me, is they say emerging low but or the 5th and because the parents, it's true to hong kong and then that when he went to the migrations team to advise oh, there's an iris why run in team basically back in the board,

so intern for nothing. 5, really not this to come for these direction. hold on. so it needs some back to money, but then the menu, the she was arrested and sent to the international committee. got approved. so that was the system, is the police treated activity, not only the feelings and it's working default. and i think for me to see that it was counting, was suddenly the low and the scores that christie and i'd like to perhaps come back to the into poll part of this because it may be there is a philippines reason for this will come to that in a moment, but 1st the reaction on the ground, the in manila because it's almost 3 years off to he left office to touch a remains a polarizing fit goes very popular with some but i guess the one the thing people in the country shed whatever that views was the shock at seeing this once powerful

president under arrest. well, i certainly agree address a pleasant surprise for us, of course, and inferior to anything. on the other hand, for his support, there's from the side of the victims. we have long a wait at this. why are the rest? but the moment it came, of course it was a different experience altogether. 3, the see the bad day. the most powerful, 1st fun in the philippines and for a fine even in south east asia, being beacon and arrested by the same people he had earlier commanded. so it was 30 of but the same time. and by waiting for the victims, a christina, he had, we understand, been planning a political real to trying to go to his old job of a matter of the about in means now in the south of philippines with the elections coming up soon. he'd been in hong kong as we heard there were rumors of an arrest

warrant. why did he come back to sick? well, i don't know so, and people have been debating who ever advised him to do so. he went home, gone to campaign, and there was a campaign activity. there was kind of a riley griff thanksgiving activity on sunday. he had the opportunity to come back on monday. and there were rumors that he had asked for shyness protection, but he had wanted to go to the main line that he wanted to remain in hong kong. but it had been declined. so we had to go back to the meetings. i left the part of the week and so we saw this arrest in the philippines. and surprisingly, the precedent model course, he used to be the best friends with him. that's what they called each other. and who was the running made of the president's daughter or rather dad, this daughter i do and put through with his problem is that he look operate with

the court. originally, the stance of the city being government had been firmed, they will not cooperate the court. they will not recognize the jurisdiction of the court, however, eventually is east up, they soften on their stands also affected by the so called break up of the tandem of the database and the younger michael's. okay, louisa, i want to ask you about the idea of arresting a will lead a current or former you with the chief prosecutor of the international criminal court. only 3 people have done that job to this point. we know the well 9 expression justice needs to be applied without fear or favor, but is it more difficult when you're dealing with someone who is that high up in the system? and i think it's worth noting to all of us that you brought indictments against. oh, my boss year, and saddam, why my good daffy in libya. you pursue charges against who are a can ya so late?

it became the president of kenya and against william boot, who is now the president. can you was noting those cases, those charges withdrawal, but when you're dealing with someone at that level doesn't do you have to go through your mind? didn't think of it most seriously about it. and if it, if it's another accused person, the wireless web as utah is truly the same. you have to click the entities as you cannot. but it's a josh is, was not planning to the biggest problem is resty arresting ahead of state. is she really complicated that why when you mentioned that kind of stacy mind on pricing, but she was seen in position for a year didn't file she was in jail insult on the page to send him to i see on on oh my god, that fee was to where he was already invited, busy and got both well in j. k for many and then was appreciate the, the president can,

can you have that brutal became the you might be kidding each other's. and suddenly they took the icy out of what our end as in mckinney to face up official and make it to get to bed. so the, through your mind when you're planning an operation like this, i mean, if it's a really big one, i mean, are you thinking, oh, we ready all we actually going to manage to, to, to, to get this arrest through and all we ready with the case where isn't the question? because if i don't i was doing, but she had many to say not to do it, but my duty was to do it. and so i checked the evidence. i checked the little i did it cutting kindly kind of perfectly the same for me then. yeah, from booking on it then. yeah, for people that advisory board to check. so we have to present you don't have to check it. that is clear, the lowest clear then is the problem for the all the good will also joining us. another guest today in manila, richard hi,

doctor in his senior electra in international affairs at the university of philippines. and also the rise of detached a, a populous revolt against the late democracy. richard, thank you for joining us. um, tell us exactly what crimes to, to take is accused of. well, thank you for having me, and i'm sure that our other guests are more informed me than, than me to look at the merits of the case. but i think the case is extremely robust as far as the cases are concerned. we're looking at multiple communications, multiple grassroots efforts. we're talking bought uh, you know, people who were at the heart of the darkness of the 3rd this warren drugs like me sir. martha bottled, mister les. com? yes. all of them providing these testimony and we're looking at a very robust, multi year investigation of the by, by the i c. c. and also in for the nation with people who are on the ground in the philippines. i've been gathering every then. so i think as far as the solidity or boss, that's of the evidence is concerned, i think there's no doubt about that. that the debate rodder in the philippines

right now is whether the circumstances are on which there, there was just automatically was a way to the he was that something that was legally sound and chris so clear. uh, to be honest about it. i've talked to many legal luminaries in the philippines or even created go through their day, but feel that perhaps we're talking a little bit of a legal grace on. or at least we're talking about an unprecedented situation because typing menu or young dissipating that cannot detect that comes in there will be a temporary restraining order. this will be taken to the supreme court, who is there to support us with love of riley's and that was the latest and on and not. but that's what happened. i think they got complete the all smart that by the markets administration, which has prepared, which is prepared to prevent that from calling about the content writing support and prepared to whisking away as soon as possible to the hague. i think that was something that came as a shock to a lot of was, well, i've been observing to be honest like what, what once they got boy then marcus administration, which has been very wishy washy on the status of their co operators when we die cc

not to mention wishy washy on the surface of the jurisdiction of dicey seats, which i think any reasonable legal experts or observer noticed that the jurisdiction issue was resolved a long time ago to christina, if you can pick up the crimes that he is accused off of it, sorry, sorry, louise, go ahead. if i'm next to gratify the point that he made the important point. no. my the, the phoenician products to be philippines. but what we think the truck or the process is different in that why seem to be low as the know team know? don't know it very well. the truck is going to surrender. so we think the cool, easily the expectation try out the police are asking the country to run the heem to the i think see that see, but it's in books not advise and try us, no investment the venture. i'm now the only forwarding to do this 5 in the future. i think that the just only to my shopping that go,

no one has previously been going to come soon. thank you for clarifying that, i'm going back to the crime. she's accused of christina vigilante death squads summary executions. um, what amazes me is the estimates of the number of people killed in these anti drugs operations? i've seen them estimate low estimate of 6000. i've seen 12000. i've seen 30000. we don't even know the numbers do a what we don't uh, the authority to count these numbers to take the ball would be the government itself. and they are well placed to do that. the official government figure now is $7640.00 killed in r b i the whole bed in police operations. and we don't know how much uh, out there died in without, with in vigilant beginnings or what we called here arriving in fandom incidents. these would be motorcycle riding at that in time them,

and they would just shoot in leaving the lights. so brazenly that charges with every file that gets the bad day of the charge specifically would be crimes against humanity in the initial request of the prosecute bar to open the investigation. it was looking at up to $13000.00 people killed in the request. we rather in the warrant of arrest, they've trim it down a bit and have said that the database being indicted for his role as the founder of the d. d. s. is the data death squad as the mayor of the about. and that's the president of the state of being so dispensed. went. 11th of 2019. and the book about numbers. 19 persons killed in davos city by the d. b. s. and the police, when he said $24.00 persons, allegedly criminals healed during the time that he was pricey then. so i know that there's a little bit of confusion about the numbers. but in the eyes,

the see really, the numbers don't that there. it's the wide spread in systematic givings, the author, and that should matter and will be present before the point on luis. i mean, he was very public about what he said he was going to do, and then he did. he is on the campaign trail. he wants that, that'd be so many bodies dumped in manila bay. the fish would grow fat from feeding on them. i mean, does that make the case more clear account when i didn't know the evidence, they no more even the me. so the audience would be debated in cost. so what i can see went off any federal database, something he did not offer to rethink things different prior. so all the we present it before came across. he will have the right to defend himself, doesn't brothers back to not richard in terms of the i c, c. he took a very strong line on the i, c. c. he said he rallied against the i, c. c,

during his presidency and then in 2019 he pulled out of the i c. c. how is that? his his background with the i c c. how is not being seen in manila as people look at this arrest? again, let me think our guest for clarifying the circumstances, the legal circumstances of we seeing a way to turn out that the reason i mention that is because i think that is a narrative, that supporters of 2 thirds that are trying to push that you know, this whole thing is illegal, the dice is he has no jurisdiction and that's the kind of thing that i think they're going to keep on harping on. so it's very important for really experts for objective experts to clarify the circumstances of this, as far as the ais insurance unit distinction is concerned. uh well, the philippines was part of the i, c. c. after rectifying the room inspections offered 2011 to 2018, at least so all the crimes that were committed during that time of work are covered by diet, c, c. and the last time h i c. c has also had winds of risk against the heads of states of countries that are not even a member of okay, let me bring your louisiana very quickly on that on that we're going to the

jurisdiction, luis, is that any gray area here that due to today's noise can knock you because he pulled out or not. you know, you will define is by get the channel that you're trying to read and find it. that, that situation that you didn't leave that in 2018. that means it could be mitigated. i've been 2019. so before 11 i like it seemed. there's no problem to mitigate the i think with nothing but the gate. when that day when the state is not the policy and the state by the kind of lead. why did they, what policies, they could be mitigated, adaptive vision, philippines between 2, a 711 and the 19 i think could be bit the game. going to be types christina, um the car and type to bring forward or started quickly. rich, if i may add the instant bring forth as all also ruled on this eastern last time i checked, the sentiments supreme court has also said that there's

a police residual jurisdiction by the icpc for the year. so the philippines was accessed has accessed on to their own statute. so i think if you look at it from multiple angles, the issue of jurisdiction has been to solve a long time ago. that okay, let me just, uh, let me, let me bring in christina. now if i can, richard because the issue of the i see see, seems controversial. even. busy with the current president present law costs, and he said it isn't the statement we didn't help see i see see in any way the arrest was made in compliance with into paul let the trying to avoid the name i see . see in the, in the statements from the government, are they not? yes. uh, this is a big issue. and if you really frame it within, within the issue of software and the people i talk to you when they say that, oh, there is an, a 4 in court that's coming in to try us. it's coming in and their white

at one point the data was driving the bank. this is an as an issue of race event. so far it's going to be knows what about nation already as to the west, but we've been see where sovereignty clearly and visual these math are at had. when you roll up, when you wrap them up with the issue of sovereignty in another country is wrong. we think that another can be coming in and trying to execute, trying to try a philly be no, we become so. gotcha. and i think that marcus administration is trying to avoid inviting the issue of the icbc. and we've seen that even during legislative investigations, they're trying to avoid it, but at the same time supports it. so this is a political matter, but it's the pallets, it's a, it's a political matter, i'm richard. i mean, detach a still has a great deal of support. does he not? in the philippines, he has his daughter,

although she's facing impeachment as the vice president, all the going to be problems down the line politically. as a result of this and the philippines, lots of, of the implications domestically are very clear as we speak. the philippines settings has been dragging its feet on, conducting a trial off of the, potentially a. well, there has been an impeachment upside of the very to the vice president by the congress already. so we have been waiting for this. i need to conduct a trial on that. but because many senators are fearing electra wrong and political as a backlash from the do their to base, especially in the know and beside in speaking regions of the country. a lot of the saying that there are some being wishy washy and being driving careful, including authentic present in the philippines. so this is important because while i completely agree that the marcus administration has been all over the place in terms of explaining what on earth is happening here, because i think other they're struggling to squared the circles, right? you're going to go on and say, you know, you don't have upset the jurisdiction of bias. you see,

you're going to go in and say, i don't want the war with the 3rd this. and i don't want to be involved in this. and the next thing, you know, you, we schema, we have to consider, right? ok, but, but i think the implicit message here to those senators, or anyone who wants to be doubting marcus jr. he's that he now means business as you know. very well since last year did that there this, i've been. oh, billy's questioning marcus junior's legitimacy, the have been events threatening him. i mean, not listened to vice president. one of the reasons why she put to face all conviction and remove was, is that she threatened even assessing a present in margaret senior. so i think mark was, you know why the conflict avoidance has realized that the moment of truth, that's comp. and this is, that needs to be spent on crisis so much it also much as a could happen in the coming base and months when it comes to deciding basement issue. not to mention other potential criminal cases filed against other members of the do there to find many okay, ones. the boss certainly is. i'm a let the, let me bring it and luis on this because i need to look at the international

repercussions of this. is this in any way concerning for the i c, c, which is a somewhat troubled organization right now. i think you'll agree. even if the merits of the case of that, but perhaps it's being used in the philippines for domestic political reasons. i don't think the i can see these are probably some problems they want to talk about, you know, they know, the more you can talk to high see what very consistent integrating food thing i got to say after what happy even to get the president then. yeah, cool. i'm going to get the copy so that to get one copy. now we mitigate that. i would say that it is, it's on top. is that now? right, and so i think it's just that we need to get to these. i'm not going to see them, but there's no more. so when you talk about what's happening now in philippines, infinity and would be a big but it's because of the age of the parents. it. it'd be wanting to go to the beta, how to one drug that obviously there's a but i think it would be illegal debate about the evidence. i'm to know. so there

are many debates and your joe, i think the matching calling to be complicated to go well to show all of these, i managed to include the connection with the licensee, another cases. but i know been just the fact that every there is no that is that the see the other part of the day that would be really big us literally. so the problem, i think, of detached a, as we know, it was sometimes called the trump of asia. the problem is that trump himself, donald trump, as you know from being the 1st prosecutor of the i, c. c. the us perhaps politically has been the wrong statute. in the i. c c's. biggest problem since you started the job. how does the i c c continue to operate in these circumstances where for example, prime minister netanyahu of israel, as we speak, is visiting hungry the new or we think the man is going to be the new shots from germany, another up to support or in the past of the i c c says that nothing you all who

could now come to germany where i have many das because you remember about pretty got him by the busy and, but she was up to get to 40 in the conference. but then, but you got the escape, i'm about to get because the judge is the owner. he's the rest except to be sitting with property in general money with the who is he goes bad. i don't think that they who would go to gentlemen. maybe it's different, but not just money. so that's like what today is it said with trying to be with the system when the law is expected to protect people in. okay. and got that. i mean, philippines, those people from previous me protection. and for me, the i the i that is the, is a piece of the jack is a 4 infinity is a part of the people. it's christina. the bad around the world. very quickly richard. yeah. yeah. may have something i think there's an order jubilee goes. i mentioned here the philippine sides being at the forefront of leveraging

international law to protect it solving rights in the south china sea, visa beach, china. and one of the arguments we have been making are to press the government to come clean on. this is this, you cannot go and say we need on floss and international law when it comes to protection of the philippines, rice visa view china and the southern when it comes to i, c, c o, i wanna opt out of international law. so i tell you, thank you. thank you, richard for that point i want to bring in. i want to bring in christina a briefly at the end because we talking about international law or whatever. and i don't want to forget the victims and the family is that in the philippines, what's been the reaction from your clients? it's a, it's been a mix of emotions for many, as we've mentioned, this has been a pleasant surprise. for many, it's been a ridiculous guessed, and now that that emotions have died down or a december delay. so we're looking at the huge work i had for convictions. because initially, while initially we've had

a few mothers come forward to file these cases. we're looking at thousands of others joining us during dry out. so hopefully we'll be inviting a lot more people in and especially that we're looking at other ex, aside from murder. hopefully more we'll have their chips in and the during the elections, we become more aware of what really happened and how we can make people comfortable . thank you very much and thank you tool, i guess today luis, but i know temple christina county and richard. hi dari, and if you missed any part of our conversation, no problem, you can always watch the program again. any time on our website out, is there a dot com. we want to your thoughts to go to a facebook page that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha inside story 10 terms of the funds on x were at a inside story for me, james space and the team here in doha. stay safe and well, bye for now. the

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