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tv   HAR Dtalk  BBC News  February 1, 2017 12:30am-1:01am GMT

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story. donald trump will announce his nominee for the supreme court. there are ninejudges but one post which has been empty for almost a year. the announcement will be made in the white house in a prime time ceremony injust made in the white house in a prime time ceremony in just one hour. made in the white house in a prime time ceremony injust one hour. the ban on seven muslim countries has been defended by the white house. and the story is trending. a record gathering of people floating while connected in argentina. 1941 people took part. that has nearly tripled the previous best set three years ago in taiwan. stay with us. this is bbc world news. we will have live coverage of the supreme court appointment in half an hour's time. stay with us. it is time for hardtalk. see you soon. welcome to hardtalk.
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i'm stephen sackur. the uk parliament is about to vote on the government's plan to trigger article 50, the formal process which will end in britain leaving the eu. there's little doubt mps will give prime minister theresa may a green light, but much has changed since lastjune‘s brexit referendum. the government has clarified its vision of what brexit means, while president donald trump is shaking up global politics. my guest today is conservative mp dominic raab. what place will post—brexit britain occupy on the world stage? domin raab, welcome to hardtalk.
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hi. you are a westminster mp who took the perhaps somewhat difficult—to—understand position that westminster mps having the right to give a green light or not to the triggering of this article 50 — you took the view that that was wrong and shouldn't be allowed. why was that? i took the view, as did all of the mp5 who passed the referendum legislation by 6—1 in the house of commons, that we gave this decision to the english people, and having done that, by the way all parties agreed to this at the time, and having done that we need to respect it. no—one minds having scrutiny. i'm on the cross party brexit committee, which is scrutinising every inch of brexit negotiations, and everyone i think is agreed we should have a vote on the final deal. but let's not have any guises for holding up or frustrating the verdict by the british people. there is going to be a vote, though, in the coming days in westminster.
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you now welcoming the debate. because there is going to be a debate, we know that various opposition mps, whether they be labour or scottish nationalists, have specific amendments to put forward. it is going to be a lively, passionate debate. surely that's something you welcome? terrific. this is going to be something like the 16th or 17th debate we have had on brexit. this is not about debate or scrutiny. equally, every democrat in the house of commons and in the house of lords will have their cards called. are we really talking about scrutiny, or are some people trying to frustrate the will of the british people and delay or even scupper brexit altogether? i don't think that will happen but everybody will have to be accountable to the british people. well, they will be. everybody will be accountable, including yourself, as a very prominent leave campaigner. one of the reasons i think that so many remainers are deeply bitter about the process they see unfolding is that they feel you in the leave camp never came clean during the referendum campaign about the kind of brexit you wanted. and indeed, one can point to all of the qquotes in which some of the prominent leavers wanted
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an exit which allowed britain to remain inside the single market, and now that seems to be taken off the table. stephen, i think that is almost wholly wrong. if you look, every time i was asked that question, micheal gove, borisjohnson, gisela stuart, all of us said... laughter. let me finish the answer before you can scorn it. we all said that we will be leaving the eu, we wanted to take back democratic control of our borders, our laws, and our money, and when asked the critical question on the single market we said we would be looking at the best access we could get, but no one said we would try and remain formal members of the single market. not, at least, among the top brass, and certainly i never said that. well, your version of "no—one" and mine are very different. daniel hannan, a very senior mep, influential voice just like yours in the leave campaign, quote, "absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the single market."
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owen paterson mp, member of the vote leave campaign, "only a madman would actually leave the single market." one more, just for luck, arron banks, one of the biggest financier of the leave campaign, quote, "increasingly, the norway option looks the best for the uk," norway, of course, having full access to the single market. exactly but not a formal member of the single market, which precisely demonstrates my point, stephen. but actually... i have given you three quotes which run entirely counter to what you just told me about the nature of the leave campaign. no, you didn't. norway is not a formal member of the single single market. well, all right. so, that's arron banks. what about the other two? only a madman, owen patterson said, would actually leave the single market. we're not going to leave the single market in terms of having a trading relationship but in terms of being a formal member. if you look, and i was with owen for a lot of the campaign, if you look at the detailed comments made, not picking a few quotes out
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of context, time and time again we were questioned on this, i remember discussing on the campaign, we all said it is clear you could not leave the eu and by the back door come in, give up control of your immigration policy, not being able to conduct free trade negotiations outside of the eu, and then realistically say we've left the eu. we said we wanted the strongest possible access to the single market but we would not anticipate being formal members. what we now have is the cliff edge scenario, something people said britain should try very desperately to avoid. here we go again. you say, here i go again. explain to me why there is not the grave danger that in two years after the triggering of article 50 britain will be staring over a cliff edge, because there will be no negotiated, complex, next trading deal with the eu member states, and, as a result, we will simply go to default wto rules, and to everybody concerned that represents a dangerous cliff edge. well, dare i say it, the pessimistic, gloomy
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doom—mongering that many in the bbc perpetrated during the referendum campaign, and they said that we would have an immediate shock after a brexit vote, they did not happen. we are the fastest growing economy in the g7 for 2016. employment at record highs. from google, to apple, to nissan to dyson, fresh investment coming in. just this week weet—bix...extra investment. all valid points but nothing to do with my question. i waited to address this... but you shifted the goal posts of doom. i am just conducting an interview with you. you cannot, when you interview me, include every discussion you have heard over the last year. i am asking a straightforward question which is relevant today. the forecasts about the immediate economic shock have all been demonstrably proven to be false. there will be a slowdown of the high level of growth we have got at the moment, the fastest—growing industrialised economy in the world, but it will not be nearly as bad as forecasters predicted. and even, for example, let's take this seriously, someone like christian forbes at the bank of england says all the uncertainty that had resulted in the negative forecasts,
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the indicators are flawed and from the bank of england to the imf... inaudible. they have reversed their forecasts for 2017. i have heard what you said, i have reflected whether it answered my question, and i have decided it doesn't at all. didn't the maltese prime minister, mr muscat, get to the heart of this when he said the other day the uk's deal post brexit with the eu must be worse than the terms of its membership. he said we can see no situation where whatever is negotiated ends up being better than the current situation that the uk has. that's where the eu's position is today. you've quoted the maltese prime minister and i'm quoting to you the german finance minister. if you want to play quotes, i can quote you francois hollande, who has consistently said the uk
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is going to pay a very high price. francois hollande will not be in the elysee when we do the negotiations. but look, you're quite right, there is a range of different views. but from the spanish foreign minister through to michel barnier, the chief negotiator, who has said, for example, on the vexed issue of uk financial services, he has pointed out, hey, hold on a minute here, given that britain puts £1 trillion worth of finance into european companies, actually, if we turn around and have a rational, vindictive being the differential approach to these negotiations... yes, it may hurt britain. we ought to stop talking about beggar thy neighbour protectionism and start looking for the win—win. and the point i was making about wolfgang schauble, and i think the same can be said for angela merkel, and michel barnier, is that there is a shifting mood in brussels which recognises, actually, there's a scope for win—win here.
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we need to go, britain needs to go into it, with a spirit of generosity too. neither you nor i knows quite where the negotiations will go over the next two years, but one thing you can shape is your vision of what a post brexit economy should look like whether or not you get this complicated trade deal, which you claim could be done within the next two years. wasn't it very interesting when the british chancellor said, you know what we may well do over the next few years as a result of brexit, we may completely transform our economy. we may become a sort of singapore of the north sea. heavily deregulated, with low tax, low public expenditure, a completely different sort of british economy. is that what you want? i not sure those were quite the words philip hammond used. i'm paraphrasing but not unfairly. you'rejudge and jury in your own cause. there were three things that we needed to do between the referendum and the start of brexit negotiations. stabilise the economy. sure, for now, that's done. that is done. economy now far stronger than anyone predicted. set out the details of our plan. the prime minister did that at lancaster house with a positive vision of a post brexit. a self—governing democracy,
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a strong european neighbour, including on trade and security, but also a global leader when it comes to free trade. and that led to the third thing that needed to happen, which is to develop unity of purpose, notjust among politicians, but amongst the country at large. and that's why the yougov poll following the lancaster house speech was very interesting, showing 3—1 the british public backed theresa may's vision. what i want to get to is the nature of this economic vision for the future. you talk about public opinion, i just wonder whether you believe those brexit voters, let's talk about a particular place in the uk, stoke—on—trent, in the sort of north midlands of the uk, where there's actually, interestingly, a by—election soon. 70% of people in that constituency voted brexit but do you think most of those 70% wanted to see a deregulated... ..low tax, low—spending britiai.
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is that what they were voting for? i think the point is that the win—win is the lancaster house speech. i've spelt out the principles. of course, if we do not get a deal, we are absolutely right to do some contingency planning and say, look, even if the eu... you think that is what the british people voted for? let me finish. even if we applies its external tariffs, on average 3.6%, we would have to take some measures to make sure that post brexit the economy can continue to thrive and one is a question of tax and to retain our competitiveness. you would have to slash public spending much more than we have seen thus far. corporation tax has been on a downward trend, why? we want britain to be competitive, that is what attracts investment and create jobs but these silly caricatures of britain becoming the singapore of the north sea, i do not recognise that at all. we need to be brave and go into the negotiations hoping for the best and bracing for any outcome. again, if you look at the question of whether the british people are up for it, if you look at that yougov poll, to the extent that you can
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ever trust the polls again, it shows strong public support for saying, actually, if the government did not get a good deal it should not sign up to any terms that we are offered from brussels, so in that sense, the british public, despite the frenzied polarised media debate, is getting behind the prime minister. you are taking us dangerously back to the cliff edge. i want a couple of specific answers and then to look at the international picture of where britain sits in the world. but on the specifics, what happens to the 3 million or so eu nationals living and working in the uk today? i am very confused by the mixed signals from the government. what will happen to them? well, look, i made clear during the referendum campaign anyone legally here from the eu at the time of the referendum i think should have their legal rights protected. they can stay indefinitely?
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those people already here will be able to stay indefinitely? i think as a moral position but also showing good faith in these negotiations, it is absolutely the right thing to do. what do you think of theresa may's position in moral terms when she refuses to give that guarantee and says, well, our stance will depend on how our nationals are treated in mainland europe? i think we should fight very hard for our expats, and i understand why theresa may said i would like those issues dealt with. or she tried to do, what the government did is go to brussels and say, why not have an early agreement and push out of their anguish and anxiety european national space in the uk and the eu and remember it was the eu who said we cannot get agreement amongst the other 27 for this. it was them who said it will have to wait until march. we tried to do the right thing. do you think some brexit backers, voters in towns like boston and lincolnshire, who have
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consistently, according to the polls and anecdotal evidence, said that their town feels as though they have lost their culture and identity because so many east european farm workers are living in that town, do you think they will feel disappointed, let down, if you are saying to them, actually the status quo as it exists in boston and lincolnshire will have to remain? certainly not with me or any of the people in the vote leave campaign, because we all said that we didn't think it was right as a basic point of moral ethics to start deporting en masse people who have been here for a long period of time, who have played by the rules and worked hard. i think it was clear in terms of what we said during the referendum. it is quite right to try to secure those rights for expats abroad too. another specific point about hard borders. it seems — the scottish nationalists are disappointed with the government stance — that the government isn't interested in discussing
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with the scot nats the idea that scotland could remain somehow in the single market and in the european customs union. but there is a question of whether in ireland and possibly scotland too if they get their way, there would be a hard border between those nations of the united kingdom and england. will there be a hard border? look, in terms of scotland, it will be wrong as a matter of principle and impossible to enforce. in terms of ireland, there is the common travel area, and those arrangements existed before we were members of the eec, as it then was, and, of course, there will be strong bilateral relations to make sure we don't undermine taking back control of our immigration policy but without putting up a hard border between the two. forgive me, but i'm not clear. if ireland is in the single market and customs union and the uk is not, how can there not be a hard border? we will have sensible mutual arrangements which respect both sides of the debate.
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we had that before we entered the eu, so i don't think it is beyond the wit of man or woman, but we won't have a hard border. we said that in the referendum campaign and the government says it now. equally, some of the stuff coming from the snp is not credible, and it's notjust the uk government saying that. the eu has said some of the ideas about staying in the single market... we had the referendum as one country, and when you do that then you negotiate your international relations as one country. let's now look at the international context in which it is all taking place. june 23, the british people voted. at the time, barack obama was president of the united states. of course, today, donald trump is in the white house, and noises from the white house are very different. you think it makes sense for britain to be cutting its bonds and ties with the european union at a time when the united states is being led by a man
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who is avowedly and proudly nationalist in his economics and his politics? well, look, first of all, we're not leaving europe, we're leaving the eu, and we want to remain a good european neighbour. and from theresa may's visit to washington you can see even now have that influence can play out, and the opportunity for our european friends, britain exercising leverage, and you heard her say we cannot be naive about putin, and standing with britain behind our nato commitments, that is a good example, but britain wants an independent foreign policy and that means... and to be an independent, self—governing democracy, that means independence from the eu. but we will have a strong relationship with america, but... will we? we have a really, really special relationship with donald trump's america? she said to trump, you renew your nation just as we renew ours, the opportunity to renew the special relationship for this age is here,
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a chance, she said, for post—eu britain and trump's america to, this is a quote, lead america again. do you think that with britain at this moment in global politics and especially us politics, is in a position and wants to have that special bond with donald trump's america? the special relationship endures, and it's bigger than with the white house and number ten. we have trade on values, security, the intelligence relationship and nato, so it's absolutely right we don't throw toys at the pan because of a controversial president. we will double up on engaging. do you think the public like the fact that when donald trump issued this executive order banning incomers from seven mostly muslim countries, angela merkel was on the phone within hours suggesting to the president that this was a big problem and he should remember what international law says. theresa may, she was asked about it,
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she obfuscated, she didn't address it directly, she didn't want to condemn the americans. do you think the public like where she stands today? if you look at the two days of theresa may in washington, yes, we want to grasp the opportunities around free trade, and it's great to have a president who wants a free trade deal. this is a president who is avowedly protectionist and says everything he does will be about america first. what makes you think britain can cut a deal when donald trump is fanatically in favour of pursuing only america's interest? all the more the coup it was to be in first and get the commitment from him. sorry, what commitment? the commitment to expedite and have proper working arrangements... on whose terms? well, it will be... on his terms! stephen, come on. have you read the art of the deal? it's all about... i am happy to answer the questions but you have to wait for the answers!
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it's a good thing. when it comes to delivering difficult measures, theresa may did it in public on nato and russia, and when she got home, yes, there was this furore around the executive order. i think it was divisive and wrong but because she had been for two days in washington, because we are engaging, borisjohnson got on the phone and it was clear notjust for britain but for other countries that dual nationals coming from britain would be barred from coming to the us, and that's serious statesmanship, not throwing up their hands in despair, not flouncing off, the labour party position, jeremy corbyn saying that we should snub donald trump, but to engage, take advantage of the opportunities and deliver the candid advice of a friend, and that is what theresa may did. in the art of the deal, donald trump says, whether you win or lose in any deal is all about the leverage you have. when you talk about britain in a post—brexit future dealing with trump's america, or with xi jinping's china, or with modi's india, all nationalist leaders out to protect their nation's interest, where do you think you leverage is and how much has britain got?
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stephen, here he goes again, classic bbc, doing down britain. laughter. i am simply asking the question. sixth biggest military in the world, the common language of business, the birthplace of shakespeare, newton, we've got huge things going for us. the network of commonwealth links we've got. and you are right that we have to go into these negotiations whether with china, brazil, america, doing what normal countries do, to look after the british national interest but often it will be looking for a win—win. sorry, but i asked how much leverage britain has and your answer included shakespeare. i mean, is it... you're asking about britain as a nation and i wanted to show why we're not down on our luck as you imply, and we have huge
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economic power, military hard power and soft power, and that's why shakespeare and language and culture and values comes into it. at the end of the day, you're right, we're the fifth biggest economy, not the biggest, but free trade is win—win, good for britain, good forjobs, cheaper prices and also good for america for the same reasons. and, by the way, it isn'tjust about the big countries. what about the global economy, the poorest countries in sub—saharan africa? free trade would give them a lifeline opportunity to gather and gain real genuine independence. it is a great mission for post—brexit britain in the 21st century. for all those saying they have to review their plans for the present in the uk... since brexit, since the brexit vote, from dyson, tojcb, to apple, to facebook, we've had a whole string of major international companies who have pledged fresh investment into the uk. we had weet—bix only this week, i am a big fan of weet—bix... it's a really interesting company. they say their prices have come up because of the post—brexit economic situation and the consumer will have to pay, and that's something you are going to have to explain to your electorate. i will be accountable
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to my voters in the normal way. huge opportunities, as mervyn king said, to export more from britain. you are right to say there will be inflationary pressure, and we need to look at that, and the bank of england has the tools to keep it under control. let's be realistic. inflation is 1.6%. it's well below the bank of england's target rate. i don't think it gives you objective brownies for the pessimism you are expressing. we have to end it there, but dominic raab, thank you very much for coming on hardtalk. it is really soggy outside right now, especially in eastern areas of the uk. many of us had the worst of the rain hours ago, but through the early hours of wednesday it is just going to stay damp wherever you are across the uk. talking a little bit about the future, we have more storms forming across the atlantic, coming out of the us and moving across the atlantic and heading in our direction.
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lots of cloud, lots happening and i think towards the end of the week that's when we are a little bit concerned that there is severe weather heading our way. in the short term we have the rain across eastern areas, so this is a 6am—8am. notice how northern and western areas brighten up a little bit later in the afternoon and then it will probably go downhill again across the south—west and wales. but in southampton, oxfordshire, around here, birmingham, manchester, to the north—west, a little bit of sunshine. the far east cloudy again, with rain. little bits and pieces of rain in northern ireland and then brighter, drier and brighter, across scotland. so a real messy picture in the uk on wednesday. be prepared for sunshine, well, be prepared for rain, but expect a little bit of sunshine. how is the rest of europe doing compared to us? well, it will turn very unsettled from spain,
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into france and the uk. this weather systems will be piling into western parts of europe, quieter across the mediterranean and quieter across central part of europe, the east as well. here is a closer look at the nasty weather. this will bring windy weather to ireland and western parts of the uk. southern costs have gales in many areas and some outbreaks of rain. a blustery day. this is the first big low. mild, but it won't feel like it in the wind. once the big low starts pulling away, another smaller but more intense weather system is going to develop. this one could do one of two things. it could either be quite nasty still and move into france. this will be less severe for us. and the other scenario is that this will probably affect south—western areas and travel towards the north.
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this is the more likely one, because of the distinguish between the two tracks. right now this is what it looks like. rain and severe gales in the south—western areas, but stay tuned to weather updates. hello, iam hello, i am rajini vaidyanathan, hello, iam rajini vaidyanathan, and you're watching bbc news. i am reporting live from washington. in just a few moments, president donald trump will announce his choice to fill the vacant seat on the us supreme court. now, he is going to be making that decision in a prime—time address to the nation from the east room of the white house. it will be the first such address he will have made as the president of the united states. now, in abouta president of the united states. now, in about a a few minutes we will be hearing from president trump. about half an hour ago, in true president trump fashion he sent out a tweet
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saying that he would be making a very important decision, and it is a huge decision for america. the us supreme court is made up of
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