the latest headlines... president trump has been meeting with canada's prime minister — justin trudeau. it comes as mr trump's national security adviser — michael flynn — apologised for his discussions with russian diplomats before the inauguration. the united states has slapped sanctions on the venezuelan vice—president, accusing him of involvement in drugs trafficking. the us authorities say mr el aissami facilitated huge shipments of narcotics from venezuela by air and sea, which he denies. more than 180,000 people evacuated from underneath the us's highest dam will not be allowed to return to their homes immediately. it is time now for hardtalk welcome

to hardtalk i am stephen sackur. with so much focus on america's new president, it is easy to forget that europe is facing its own period of prolonged uncertainty. brexit negotiations are about to begin, the greek debt crisis is going through another convulsion, and it is a dear of key elections, most particularly in the continent's dominant economy, germany. my guest isjens spahn. he isa germany. my guest isjens spahn. he is a rising star in germany. will german politics reshape europe? jens spahn in berlin, welcome to

hardtalk good evening stephen and london. it is good to see you. we start with tra ns—atla ntic london. it is good to see you. we start with trans—atlantic relations as seen from berlin. i think we have two start with the impact of donald trump. how would you say germany perceives donald trump's administration right now? well, let's said that the way the president is using twitter and talking is very unusual for germans. we are not used to that, but nevertheless, i think when it comes to the issues he brings to the table, and the administration brings the table, when it comes to nato, the table, when it comes to nato, the question if we do enough here in europe for our own defence, when it comes to trade, for example trade with china, where the issues to. we just had this argument with the steel union of europe and china. when it comes to syria, there are issues we can work on together. and

i want to focus on those things where we can work on them together, not just where we can work on them together, notjust do all where we can work on them together, not just do all these where we can work on them together, notjust do all these historical things we have seen in the past days. -- hysterical. ido things we have seen in the past days. -- hysterical. i do want to be hysterical, but i don'tjust want to focus on what you have outlined, either. i want to focus on what donald trump a europe. he said brexit was the start of something bigger and that other nations would be the european union. and he clearly left the impression that he does not have much time to the european union. well, i would say it is up to the european union, now, to grow up. we have two learn, obviously, that we have to do our things on our own, but i do hope that from sentences like this and the opinion that seems to be there — and by the way, it is not a new opinion, and new things that we hear from our american friends when it comes to the european union... no, on the contrary, it is very new. i've spoken to many of barack

0bama's advisers and their message was clear. they wanted to deal with a deterrent, and unified european union. they wanted a trans—atlantic trade and investment partnership. these so—called ttip deal. trade and investment partnership. these so-called ttip deal. that is what i meant. we obviously need to bea what i meant. we obviously need to be a strong europe. so we need to bring up these issues. a defence union, for example. we talked about it for decades, but nothing as happened. now, finally, we take the first concrete steps to build up something, new agencies, and we are working together on this error. all when it comes to trade, for months, if not years, we have seen many people demonstrating against ttip. and we had all sorts of other problems with other arrangements. and free trade is important for the european union and we need to be strong on that. but i meant by growing up, we need to learn as a

union to stand on our own feet. and i think that is what is changing in the transatlantic partnership. of course, the united states is our most important ally in the world. the transatlantic partnership is important for us. —— united states. but the ute, a european union needs to grow up and become stronger. —— but the european union. donald trump is in america first guy. and he is not for free trade. even in is in america first guy. and he is not forfree trade. even in his inauguration address, he used were protection. we know he's going to do what it takes to change the trade dynamic between countries like he and yours. and when he looks at your trading surplus, which in 2015 was a staggering 250 billion euros, he sees a country, germany, which in his view is operating under fairly. what is unfair about our exports of ca i’s what is unfair about our exports of cars to the united states? that is a

question we have to raise. 0n the other hand, i don't have any german mobile left. we buy those from other countries. we are notjust one of the biggest exporters, but the third biggest importer, as well. if you believe in free trade, you need to make sure it is to the benefit of all. it is a america for us, —— if it is america first, we must be german first. we have worked well with our neighbours and other partners. we need to make america first also mean working together and trading together for both sides. that is what it is about. and by the way, the only government, or one of the only ones in the european union thatis the only ones in the european union that is actually asking the european central bank to think about the low interest rates is the german one. central bank to think about the low interest rates is the german onem is interesting to me that in the course of this conversation, you have steadfastly refused to

criticise donald trump in any meaningful way at all. and yet in german politics, the spd, your rival for power, the centre—left party, is 110w for power, the centre—left party, is now led by a man who has made no bones about his very strong criticisms of donald trump. it is interesting that michael schultz, in germany, is doing very well in the polls. it may be that your caution and angela merkel‘s caution about donald trump is not to serve you well in german politics. ozil, i don't believe that this issue, the american issue, to call it that way, is the most important thing when it comes to the people who vote. —— first of all, i don't believe. but if you are just a party german late mr schultz, that this is a big issue. but like asset, a united states are one of the important allies. of course it is important... you cannot keep saying that, atjens

spahn, when the united states is led bya man spahn, when the united states is led by a man who in so many different ways, whether it is on the european union, nato, or free ways, whether it is on the european union, nato, orfree trade, or human rights issues, is doing things counter to what german... but stephen, do you think it makes things better to start insulting each other? we are doing that right 110w. each other? we are doing that right now. i believe in working together. this new administration isjust now. i believe in working together. this new administration is just an office for some few weeks. and eve ryo ne office for some few weeks. and everyone in germany and europe seems to know already what all this is about. i want to talk to people first, before i come to final conclusions. and so, actually, what we try to build up is personal relations with our partners on the other side. of course, we do say what we like and do not like, but i prefer what we like and do not like, but i p refer to what we like and do not like, but i prefer to start doing that in personal talks, not in front of the media. but private people do at the media. but private people do at the media does. what a party german late

mr michael shaw stars, that is up to them. but for a government, mr michael shaw stars, that is up to them. but fora government, it mr michael shaw stars, that is up to them. but for a government, it is a responsible position to say we want to speak to our partners in washington first of all, and the other side had made that clear. but we have explained that there is a difference between the current situation with china and europe. so we just situation with china and europe. so wejust don't situation with china and europe. so we just don't let it happen. we comment on that, but in a way that i think is a very responsible way. 0k. in my introduction, i spoke about uncertainty. i think it is fair to say that there is more uncertainty about german politics than we thought they would have been, six muzza go. as i mentioned, the opinion polls have changed. for the first time, just a few days ago, we saw martin schultz and had over angela merkel. why do you think the political mood is changing and running counter to the interests of your party, the cdu? the social

democrats in germany have the momentum of the new kids on the block. and nobody knows mr schultz. and his position on many issues like immigration and security, like social issues are unknown. so this debate is about to start. what we see is that a party like the social democrats, that have actually been ina kind democrats, that have actually been in a kind of political depression in the past decades, all past years, that's say, where they had no chance, actually to win any national election, for the first time, they get a slight feeling that they might have a chance, this time will stop at of course, that sets freed some energy. and that is our policy right 110w. energy. and that is our policy right now. and that shows, as well, by the way, as a christian democrat, that oui’ way, as a christian democrat, that our party, the chancellor's party, this campaign will be different to

the campaign that we have seen four yea rs the campaign that we have seen four years ago. it will be about content much more than the last one. everyone actually feels, right now, it is about the future of europe, about the future of our country, about the future of our country, about the future of our actually uniting or dis— uniting our society with the migrants and refugees that have just come with the migrants and refugees that havejust come in. and we'll want with the migrants and refugees that have just come in. and we'll want to make this one a more amazing campaign in the last one. angela merkel said it will be the hardest ever. and it may be one of the ha rd est, ever. and it may be one of the hardest, if not the hardest ever, because you have created some problems for her. when you have spoken about her handling of the migration challenge and her decision to say we can manage, oui’ migration challenge and her decision to say we can manage, our borders are open, and letting in many more than1 million are open, and letting in many more than 1 million migrants are open, and letting in many more than1 million migrants over the past couple of years. you have commented on that, suggesting it was a mistake. you eddie izzard a book that describe the influx as a

failure of the state. you said the border cannot be secured. law cannot be enforced and thousands of applications cannot be processed. so if you, yourself, have pointed out angela merkel and said you made a terrible mistake, and the german people have read what you have said. no, no, no, i neversaid. i.e. describe the situation in my book, from november 2015, i described the situation we had in germany. and obviously in europe. in some parts we are still not able to secure our border. that is busily what we need to do. and nobody was prepared, not in germany, berlin, europe, anywhere on what has happened. donald trump called it a catastrophic mistake on the part of angela merkel. and the german people are not going to forget that. you know what is actually the catastrophic mistake? we have made it as a european union

asa we have made it as a european union as a whole. the —— the holden schengen treaty. the freedom of movement throughout europe. —— the whole schengen treaty. 0nly europe. —— the whole schengen treaty. only if we are willing to secure oui’ treaty. only if we are willing to secure our borders. we were not able to protect our borders, the mediterranean sea. that is what the last summit was about. we had to regain control and we have regained a lot of control already, but not yet everything that needs to beat at. that is actually a debate that is to be done. i think is something like that is happening, like we have seen like that is happening, like we have seenin like that is happening, like we have seen in the past two years, with the migrants coming into europe, then it is quite normal that you have eight controversial debate in society and in the party. and i do see a controversial debate in the party if you do at the right way, and with good arguments, and that is what we did in the christian democratic party in germany. the reality is

that we are just two months on from a terrible terror attack at the christmas market in berlin that turned out to be the work of a tunisian individual. the german and author of his were aware of him and he was legally in the country, but gemma could not figure out how to deport him. and that makes political capitalfor rival deport him. and that makes political capital for rival parties such as the far right afd movement in your country, who say, and i quote a recent leadership quote, we cannot go on denying that there is a leg between angela merkel‘s migration policy and these attacks, or we will simply prepared the ground for more of the same attacks. that is the political climate today to your party. world political climate in germany is more polarised than it has been for many years. that is for sure. and i think that is quite normal, actually, after this situation we have seen in the autumn of 2015. we have never had a situation like this before in the

european union or in germany. now it is about regaining control. now it is about regaining control. now it is about regaining control. now it is about discussing security issues, of course fighting terrorism, and we have had terror attacks before this refugee influx of the past months. but it is about screening people who are coming to the european union. by the way, the terrorists of berlin actually was a let out of a greek prison too early. —— terrorist. so we need to find a european solution on this. and ifind quite normal that you have controversial debates about this in a society and in an upcoming campaign, and because this is not an average issue, that is a fundamental question of the future of society and of europe. but by is that why you are pandering to the far right for taking on, for example, the issue of the burqa in germany and describing yourself as

burqa phobic? when i grew up, fighting for the rights of women was a left thing. it is a reactionary conservative religious approach that women are forced... wait a minute... sorry, since i heard that all the time. since when are fighting for the rights of women and the equality of men and women, since when is that a very right wing approach? that is new to me. it used to be a left approach. every academic... we have to fight for these women's rights. we have so many women in germany everyday. a strange issue for you to

fight on. ifi criticise it, ifi have done last weekend, people, he right wing. it used to be a very liberal approach and i keep on saying that. it is a strange issue for you to fight on. every economic analysis tells us that there are only a few hundred women in the whole of germany that where the burqa. it is a very, very small issue that you have chosen to make into a big political issue. also, what if these women actually want to wear the burqa? what if these women actually want to wear the burqa ? where what if these women actually want to wear the burqa? where do you stand on the women's rights then? actually, a woman that wants to wear at burqa might be wrong in our society. this are open deliberate societies. every day, i might see people i might not like and that is a normal, that is an open society. how would this interview p, stephen, if the two of us were covered on our faces discussing these issues? this is not our open, liberal society.

this is not our western world. you might call it a symbolic debate. yes, it is symbolic. it is symbolic about the issue of whether we're willing to stand for our rights, values and principles. there are so many women, actually, affected. i say it so much here in germany. not by burqa only at why their fathers choosing the men who they have to marry. little girls are not allowed to go to swimming lessons are close of so—called religious reasons. we have two do this fight and to stand up have two do this fight and to stand upfor our have two do this fight and to stand up for our values. this is about culture, by the way. so practically speaking, we know that you want to ban the burqa in germany but there isa ban the burqa in germany but there is a bigger issue on what you do with those whose asylum claims fail and you don't know where to put

them. angela merkel has said in recent days and again this might be political but she said it is about repatriation, repatriation and more repatriations. what are you going to do, are you going to send tens and possibly thousands of people to greece which is already struggling to cope with the tens of thousands of people it has in refugee camps already, you are going to send them back to grief because that was their first port of entry into the european union? it's not about sending them back to greece. it is about sending them back to their home countries, morocco, tunisia and algeria. as was the case with the market... it that is why we are negotiating with these countries. less tha n negotiating with these countries. less than 1% of asylum seekers are from these countries and are recognised and refugees. many of them come for understandable reasons but not for reasons that make them a

refugee because of the geneva convention. the summit was about this. the people we rescue for the mediterranean sea, we need to bring them back to the coast from which they came. we need to give them shelter and food and all the other stuff and within weeks, these smuggler business will be ended and the dying in the mediterranean sea as well. we have two actually make clear, yes, refugees from syria and iraq, there is a chance to be in the european union. there is a chance to be in germany, we want to help them. but the people that come from other reasons and i say again, understandable reasons but we can't solve this problem by letting them all come to the european union. solve this problem by letting them all come to the european unionlj have two ask you about brexit because that is the other

existential challenge facing the european union. after the brexit boat, angela merkel said the very survival of the european union is now at stake. because she sees it like that, to that mean that you in germany ultimately do feel that britain has to pay a heavy price for brexit and that you will not exceed tibet cherry picking desires of harissa made to both leave the single market but have preferential access to the single market? first of all, a regret the united kingdom leaving the eu. in the united kingdom always was and always will be one of our strongest partners. in europe and the world. so you will allow, to a certain extent, some cherry picking? no! iwas allow, to a certain extent, some cherry picking? no! i was about to make the button. we want to make very strong ties politically —— the but. if you want access to the

market, you have to accept the freedom of movement, for example. by the framework of the internal market and the wto framework, there is so much room for compromise so we actually should start these negotiations. so far they haven't started. give a there needs to be a divorce settle m e nt there needs to be a divorce settlement started to be spoken about. they can't be simultaneous. is that your view? they are separate, that is right but you cannot have it simultaneously. first of all, you have to settle the divorce, that is true. we are already about to talk about all of this. of already about to talk about all of this. of course you can already started talks about what is going to

happen after but this will be the mother of negotiations, actually, one of the biggest negotiations that ever has been between states. there isa ever has been between states. there is a lot of work to do and so we should start soon to get away this uncertainty for so many people and so uncertainty for so many people and so many businesses that are affected by this. let's start this and let's find a way to have a very strong relationship, economically and politically. as i said, there is no cherry picking but much, much room for compromise. in your opinion, how much will it cost britain in terms of its long—term economic prospects, leaving the eu ? of its long—term economic prospects, leaving the eu? well, actually, that is very hard to say. that is very ha rd to calculate. is very hard to say. that is very hard to calculate. you can only make assumptions. you can make every number, if you want to, out of this. i think what is affecting most...

might point is this. president hollande said that uk has two pay a high price or other countries might wa nt to high price or other countries might want to follow. jelena that is not oui’ want to follow. jelena that is not our opinion. —— that is not our opinion. we had to accept this decision. it is not about punishment. it is not about to cherry picking but finding a good way partnership afterwards. i am not so way partnership afterwards. i am not so worried, by the way, about other countries leaving. mr trump might say it. 0thers countries leaving. mr trump might say it. others might say it. i see the eastern european countries having a big interest in good relationships. for example when it comes to defence. the defence union is something very important for our eastern european partners. i see that our staff european partners love to be with us in the. actually, i see no other country living. we have delivered there. thank you very

much, jens spahn, joining me from berlin. a pleasure. thank you. well, it was a fairly miserable weekend, wasn't it? cold and bleak for many of us, so monday was a better day. the exception, though, the far north—east. it was still rather disappointingly cool. across aberdeen, only five degrees, a lot of cloud as well. you can see on a satellite picture from monday, where the cloud is that for scotland. elsewhere, there was a decent amount of sunshine to be found. it was windy but the sunshine hopefully compensated. and in the south—west, in exeter, we had a high of 13 degrees. that's a bit more like it, isn't it? there is some cloud and rain down

into the south—west. a weather front approaching into cornwall over the next few hours. into parts of devon. a little more cloud through somerset and south wales, and that hill fog as well. but elsewhere it will be a cold start with some decent spells of sunshine. further north and west again dry, largely sunny, maybe the chance of a little bit bit of light, patchy frost in sheltered areas of scotland, but not a bad start to the day. and, as we go on through the day, i think you will continue to see some sunshine, and temperatures will be a degree or so up on where they were on monday. the exception really is into the south—west, where the cloud will begin to gather, pushing up through the midlands and into wales, eventually into northern ireland. it will bring the odd spot of showery rain by the end of the day.

but temperatures still decent, 11—12 degrees. highs hopefully six or seven into eastern scotland, so we're starting to get there. that weather front will move out of the way, and then we have this series of fronts out to the south—west which produce a messy picture for wednesday. there will be some rain with these frontal systems, but it is going to be very hit—and—miss. as they drift up from the south, there will be outbreaks of patchy rain. it will be cloudy but mild and less windy than we have seen this week. the best of the brightness, perhaps, into the far north and east. eight or nine degrees by wednesday afternoon. highest values of 11 further south. once we get those areas of low pressure out of the way, things are likely to quieten down as we go towards the end of the week. the isobars will open up, the winds will fall lighter, and that means that there will be a good deal of dry, mild weather in the story. but early morning mist and fog could be a problem. that will slowly lift, and any rain we get will be light and patchy.

so, all in all, not a bad end to the week. welcome to bbc news, broadcasting to viewers in north america and around the globe. my name's mike embley. our top stories: as donald trump meets canada's prime minister, his national security adviser is forced to apologise for his talks with russia. they are still inspecting that damaged dam in california. thousands who were evacuated want to know when they can return home. american officials impose sanctions on venezuela's vice—president, accusing him of involvement in drug trafficking. and a stitch in time — the nifty knitter whose sweaters mirror the landmarks he visits. hello.