life, after the discovery of seven earth—sized planets nearly a0 light years away. three of the planets are within what's considered to be the habitable zone where surface water might exist and therefore life may be possible. the trump administration has revoked us government protection for transgender students, which gave them the right to use school bathrooms matching their chosen gender identity. transgender rights advocates say the guidelines were necessary to protect students from discrimination. the us secretary of state, rex tillerson, and the head of homeland security have arrived in mexico for talks on the proposed border wall and the deportation of undocumented immigrants. tensions are high, with the two countries facing their most serious rift for years. in a change to the scheduled programme, there's a chance to see again the remarkable interview with norma mccorvey, better known by the legal pseudonym "jane roe" in the landmark american lawsuit roe v wade. mccorvey died at the weekend.

in conversation with tim sebastian in 2004, she discusses the case ruling that challenged the criminal abortion laws in texas that ruled abortion was unconstitutional, except in cases where the mother's life was in danger. older theme plays. when it comes to the legal history of the united states, the case of roe v wade is a landmark. it culminated in the decision to legalise abortion, and has been bitterly challenged ever since. among me is jane roe who was

in the case. she has dropped the pseudonym and now has the opposite opinion. norma mccorvey, that is your real name. yes, it is. welcome to the programme. no abortion, as far as you are concerned under any circumstances, period 7 far as you are concerned under any circumstances, period? none at all. you are saying you are not antiabortion, you are pro life. what is the difference? i think the antiabortion stigma comes from the pro— abortion movement. we call them pro— abortion movement. we call them pro— abortion movement. we call them pro— abortion so we call them antiabortion. which is true? you are right. it is a negative. and i am really not negative. so, i like to

say i am pro life. and you are pro life... as far as everything goes, across your whole life? yes. against capital punishment? absolutely against it. even though you voted for george bush and will vote for george bush? how do you knowl for george bush and will vote for george bush? how do you know i voted for george bush? you did, didn't you? it is the first time i voted. but you did? yes, i did. this man, the texas governor, is responsible for some of the highest execution in his state. i suppose he was. i did not really keep up with it. i did not really keep up with it. i did not vote. i was a non—voting person until george bush was running for the us presidential election. and i decided to go and vote. but you don't see any conflict in that and you're otherwise pro life stance? --

your. no, idon‘t. you're otherwise pro life stance? -- your. no, i don't. you say you are a christian now and you never were before. do you think abortion is incompatible with christianity? abortion is killing. and in the ten commandments it says thou shalt not kill. and so i agree with the ten commandments and all the teachings of the catholic church. specifically the catholic church? well, with each church that agrees that abortion is wrong. the church of england, for example, says when the continuance ofa example, says when the continuance of a pregnancy threatens the life of the mother, a termination may be justified, though there must be safe and adequate provision in our society for such adulation is. is that a godless approach? that -- situations. i think... they may be

rare, but they are also important. they are we are talking about the life of a woman and child. it is a balance, isn't it? that of course it is. it does not make it... the child is. it does not make it... the child is nonetheless a child if it is conceived in rape or incest. it is still a child. i understand that. but in the case where a mother may be threatened, which is what the church of england is talking about... i do not go to the church of england... i am saying there is a balance to be taken account of. of course there is. if a mother is going to die in childbirth, if it is the view of a doctor that is going to happen, do you favour the life of the unborn fetus over that of the mother? i really do not think that isa mother? i really do not think that is a very fair question, but i will give you my opinion. we will do anything to save the life of the

mother and also the life of the child. but what if you cannot? what if you have to make a choice? what then? then that decision has to be made by that particular woman's husband, her pastor, or her priest. but not the woman herself?“ husband, her pastor, or her priest. but not the woman herself? if the woman is able to make the decision herself, then it is her decision. i guess. i don't know. i don't have all the answers. but you did say at the top that there should be no abortion under any circumstances. we are now discussing some circumstances that it is possible. but it is very rare. yes, but you would support it under those circumstances? under those circumstances. there are some you might. you are open. your mind is not closed on this. you suggested at the top of the issue that you were

com pletely the top of the issue that you were completely closed to this but we found a chink of light in this. there is a chink of light as you put it in everyone's soul. it depends on what the climate is. it depends on the basic decision, which should be done by the people that are involved with it. ok. so it is not an absolute. it is not an absolute no abortion under any circumstances?” stand by the teachings of the catholic church, tim. and i have worked in abortion clinics. and i see what abortion does to women. there are millions of... what do you mean by that, beyond carrying out the operation? what do you mean, "what they do to women." they do not give them proper counselling, they just take their money, do the

abortion, and they do not really ca re if abortion, and they do not really care if they leave the woman ok or not. are you talking about illegal abortion? i am talking about legalised abortion. they said in a 7-2 in 1973 that a legalised abortion. they said in a 7—2 in 1973 that a woman should be able to choose if she wants a safe abortion. and abortion is not safe. there are still women who are dying in the united states from legalised abortion. you can go tojust in the united states from legalised abortion. you can go to just about any pro life... how many are we talking about? we are talking about thousands. really? where do you get these figures from? i have no basis for my figures, ok? but i will tell you this, there are abortion doctors who come in, do and abortion real quake, and then they have a golf

date, and they take off, and they don't really care if the woman has been... that goes through a lot of the medical profession, doesn't it? that is true, but i am talking about one specific area within medicine, and that is abortion. what about birth control? where do you stand without? strictly in line, again, without? strictly in line, again, with the teachings of the catholic church? yes. but you are aware that in huge parts of africa, the catholic church turns a blind eye to family planning and contraception?” don't know what the catholic church doesin don't know what the catholic church does in africa. i am from the united states. but you do not have a view on this then? no. so your views are entirely restricted to the united states ? entirely restricted to the united states? somewhat. for a woman who was cited in roe v wade, you could

not have come further, could you? away from that initial decision, which used your name in the case to come up with the supreme court decision, legalising abortion. you have turned full circle, haven't you? have turned full circle, haven't you ? completely? have turned full circle, haven't you? completely? yes i have, completely. and i am very proud of that. i am completely. and i am very proud of that. iam proud completely. and i am very proud of that. i am proud to know that i do not have to go into another abortion clinic and watch women come out of abortion procedures crying and wanting to call their mothers. i don't have to look at dismembered bodies of children who have been ripped out of their mothers' wounds. i don't have those nightmares and more. i refuse to have those nightmares. but for a quarter of a century, you believed abortion to be... fora century, you believed abortion to be... for a quarter of a century i was misled. to be ok. i was told...

how would you misled?” was misled. to be ok. i was told... how would you misled? i was told by the two attorneys, sarah weddingon and another that if it was made legal in taxes it would put an end to rape and incest. it did not happen. —— texas. there isjust as much going on as it was in 1973 and 1947. are you saying you were misled? i was. by 1947. are you saying you were misled? iwas. by my 1947. are you saying you were misled? i was. by my former lawyers, yet. but in 1983, you are quoted in a book called the law giveth, talking about sara. i have never heard of it. it was by barbara. who is she? she is an offer. good for her. she says she is patient, she never put me off, and knowing sarah is better than knowing the queen of

england. laughing. i must have been stoned when i said that, tim. you said that. many people change quotes to suit needs. so you felt that you we re to suit needs. so you felt that you were manipulated by the lawyers? yes. but he went to the lawyers, didn't you? you wanted... you wanted an abortion? i did. iwent didn't you? you wanted... you wanted an abortion? i did. i went to an illegal abortion clinic in dallas. there was no one there. they had been arrested a week before i got there. i was told by the attorney who was going to be handling my adoption case for the baby i was wanting to abort that there were two women who were freshly out of law school who wanted to overturn the texas statute on abortion. we met. they must let me. i made a mistake.

you feel that now despite what you we re you feel that now despite what you were saying in 1983?” you feel that now despite what you were saying in 1983? i cannot help what was said in 1983. that was too many years ago. when you wanted your abortion, you were in your early 20s... abortion, you were in your early 20s. .. yes, i was. how abortion, you were in your early 20s... yes, iwas. how did abortion, you were in your early 20s... yes, i was. how did you abortion, you were in your early 20s. .. yes, i was. how did you get pregnant? i had an affair. and it was inconvenient to get pregnant? no. idid was inconvenient to get pregnant? no. i did not want to bring another child into the world that i could not take care of. you already had two. i already had two children. i had won by my first marriage. i had one by an affair that i had by a young man who came and got his daughter after she was born and took responsibility for her. and that is what men have to do, they have to do is one's ability for there actions.

it is not just is one's ability for there actions. it is notjust the woman's fault. in order to get an abortion, you said that you had been raped, didn't you? idid say that you had been raped, didn't you? i did say that. which wasn't true? that is right. why did you keep that story going for so long, for 15 yea rs, story going for so long, for 15 years, in fact, story going for so long, for 15 years, infact, didn't story going for so long, for 15 years, in fact, didn't you? yes, i did. buti years, in fact, didn't you? yes, i did. but i finally came clean in 1981, or 19801 did. but i finally came clean in 1981, or1980 i am not did. but i finally came clean in 1981, or 1980 i am not sure what year it was, and i said that i had not been raped, that i had lied. that i had been lied to. the daughter that you gave birth to, you gave her up for adoption. yes, i did the bite of the ever had any regrets about that? no, sir. do you ever think about her? of course, i do. ever wonder what she looks like? think about her? of course, i do. ever wonder what she looks like7m course, i do. ever wonder what she looks like7m course, ido. but ever wonder what she looks like7m course, i do. buti ever wonder what she looks like7m course, i do. but i promised i would never bother her. do you have pity for women these days who are in a

similar position to where you were then? desperate, having found out that they... things are different. we have crisis pregnancy centres that outnumber abortion clinics three — one. we have more information out of the information highway, so to speak than we did in 1973. the bolton desperate when he found that you are pregnant. i wasn't desperate. but he wa nted pregnant. i wasn't desperate. but he wanted an abortion. when i got there and saw the conditions of the place, i couldn't go through with it. dyoo wa nt to i couldn't go through with it. dyoo want to be to show you why. if i had gone through an abortion, which i didn't. what are you showing me? cut wrists. you would have committed suicide? i tried to commit suicide.

how many times? 45. at what point did you try to commit suicide?” tried to commit suicide because i really didn't want to have my name, jane roe, which is not my name, its norma mccorvey, tied up. i couldn't do it. i couldn't go through with the abortion. it has nearly driven me mad to begin with, just knowing that i was the plaintiff, just knowing that i was an executioner, but i used to tell women that it was ok, it but i used to tell women that it was 0k, it was all right. this was after your experience? this was in the yea rs your experience? this was in the years afterwards. i worked in abortion clinics from 1991— 1994. i saw so many women, abortion clinics from 1991— 1994. i saw so many women, two, three and four times, until it wasn't even

funny. a lot of women use abortion isa mean funny. a lot of women use abortion is a mean of birth control. a lot of women use abortion for whatever reason they want to and abortion should be stopped. abortion stops at a beating heart. but in the years when you worked in the abortion clinics, you thought it was ok, didn't you? clinics, you thought it was ok, didn't you ? what clinics, you thought it was ok, didn't you? what were the reasons for you thinking that it was ok? how did you justified to yourself and then? i justified it, did you justified to yourself and then? ijustified it, tim, mostly every night with several pitchers of margaritas, if you must know.” needed a job. margaritas, if you must know.” needed ajob. simply margaritas, if you must know.” needed a job. simply that? that's it. and then, in 1995, it stopped suddenly all gradually? gradually. you gradually came to the

realisation that you couldn't go on like this? yes, i did. and i met two very enchanting children by the name of emily and chelsea mackie and they showed me that there was another way to live. and that way was to believe in god. and it's your religious belief now that brought you to this point of view, that abortion cannot be allowed? it's my soul's belief. you don't recognise the norma mccorvey who used to work in the abortion clinics any more? who was pa rt abortion clinics any more? who was part of... two was cheerleading for the cause of abortion?” part of... two was cheerleading for the cause of abortion? i never cheer led for the pro— abortion site. we never got along. i have nothing to do with them. they would invite me places and then would refuse to let

me speak because i wasn't one of the beautiful people, i wasn't one of the smartest people. i flew all the way to washington, dc for a march in 1989 and they said no, but i had no business going there to speak because they had sarah weddington. the argument that has put forward, one of the main arguments that put forward for legalising abortion, for keeping abortion legal in the united states is that it gives women the choice, it gives them a fundamental rights over their bodies. why would you take that right away from them? i'm not trying to take anything away from them. i'm trying to make them realise that it's a mistake. the whole abortion industry was based on a foundation of lies. they don't give a a foundation of lies. they don't givea dam a foundation of lies. they don't give a dam about women. all they do is... but it's the woman's decision

to make, isn't it? it is, but then women should not act as their own gods. but the supreme court cleared the way, a balance of interests between the state looking after life and women having privacy and control over their lives. i don't really... would you really take that control away from them? this has been such a landmark decision, it's changed the lives of millions of women across america, hasn't it? we filed a motion 60 brief for the... through the... the federal courts in dallas onjune 19. the... the federal courts in dallas on june 19. 2003. the... the federal courts in dallas onjune19. 2003. to do what? to overturn a ropey weight. it's not going to happen, is it? as a former supreme court later, i'm entitled to

the right to change my mind and to go back to the courts, even if i have to go to the supreme court, and ask them to rick —— reconsider roe the wade. you have the right but it's not going to happen, is it? do you have information i don't? you have the attorney general, john ashcroft, who is the most staunch antiabortionists in the cabinet. he describes roe the wade is the settled law of the land. that's john ashcroft. i'm not him. i am a woman. you seriously think you have a chance? i do. i talked you seriously think you have a chance? i do. italked to you seriously think you have a chance? i do. i talked to post- abortion women on a daily basis. 15, 16,18 abortion women on a daily basis. 15, 16, 18 years after their abortions. they're still feeling guilty about taking the life of their child. do you really want to return to the situation where somewhere between up toa situation where somewhere between up to a million illegal abortions are carried out in the united states every year? tim, you know as well as

ido every year? tim, you know as well as i do that is a lot of pro— abortion lobbyists hype. but it's true. before roe the wade, there were between 200,001.2 million illegal abortions carried out in the united states. thousands died from illegal abortions. that is not hype. thousands have died from legalised abortion. but she would return these women to that kind of situation. women who have to go underground? everyone should understand the reason why we everyone should understand the reason why we are everyone should understand the reason why we are doing this. we are trying to save women's lives and children's lives. we are not doing this for any kind of personal agenda. do you think you're being used by the pro—life people? the

republicans? you said you were used in turn by the others, the pro— abortion rests. i have never met such a great group of people since i have been in the pro—life movement, honestly. what does that mean? you used to like the lawyers, didn't you? i did. but you turned against them. they turned against me first. your old lawyer says that the case for her, and the date, in 1973, when abortion was legalised, still the most exciting day of her life. she says it's given... who is this? sarah weddington. of course it did. it's given women 30 years of knowing what it's like to be autonomous and making decisions most vital to their lives. and that is the way sarah weddington thinks but it is not the way i think. i am not sarah weddington. i don't teach at

texas... the texas university and i don't have a ph.d.. what about all the violence against abortion clinics? the murders in the bombings in the arson attacks. you are dating yourself. come on. what about the people who carry those out? it all happened in the 805. what do you say to people who carried this out?” don't know anybody in the pro—life movement who does things like that. but you would condemn them if they did? i do not agree with them, no, what it —— because it is bloodshed touching bloodshed. you are not accomplishing anything by taking the life of an abortioni5t. or attacking 01’ life of an abortioni5t. or attacking or tantalising. or attacking or whatever it is these people are doing. so you hope the strength of your arguments alone will convince people? i have the strength of god ‘5 word is heard, not mine. norma mccorvey, expected to have you on

the programme. thank you so much, tim. thank you. hello there. check before you travel. i think that's the main message today. stormy weather pushing across the uk from west to east. storm doris developed through the night. by the start of morning rush—hour this is where it will be the lightest wind. a number of hazards. to the northern flank of it, snow. parts of central and southern scotland, a met office amber be—prepared warning. especially on the higher ground. we could see 20—30 centimetres of snow. that could impact the higher parts of the m74, the m8, and m90 during the morning rush hour. and even some snow cover in the central belt. the other feature of the weather is the strength of the wind. england and wales, the main impact of that.

it is particularly covered by a be—prepared amber warning from the met office. this 5tretch will go from north wales through the morning pushing acro55 east anglia and the midlands. this is where we could see maybe 70—80 mile an hour gust5, especially over hills and coa5t5. widely in england and wales, in excess of 50 miles an hour through the day, causing travel disruption and power problems as well. with it, if you look at the forecast for the day. the band of low pressure going east to west. many seeing rain for a time. this is where the most persistent will be. away from the hills is where we will see snow. a risk of minorflooding here. easing in the afternoon. brighter skies to the west and south. northern ireland 5ee5 sunshine and showers. a cold and north—westerly wind digging in. temperatures dropping through the day. the wind is strong into the afternoon, the evening, especially in lincolnshire and east anglia. the winds will drastically drop down through the night and into friday.

wintry showers here and there. maybe some ice. friday will be a much quieter day. for many, a pleasant day. fro5t to begin with. one or two showers initially. mo5t becoming dry with some sunny spell5. clouding over into the west later on. rain into northern ireland, we5tern scotland, strengthening wind5. some snow in the western highlands. not especially warm, but in the sunshine, just a gentle breeze. it should feel 0k. milder south—westerly wind5 as we go into the weekend. quite strong winds on saturday, bringing mild weather up from the mid—atlantic. lots of cloud. the best of any breaks to the west and east. wettest in the north and west. temperatures widely into double figures. again, rising river levels and a risk of flooding to parts of north—west england. more rain at times to come on sunday. a quiet day compared to saturday. the winds a bit lighter. the strongest wind5 towards the west and east. take care.

hello, you're watching bbc world news. i'm adnan nawaz. our top story this hour: a serious blow to so—called islamic state in iraq. security forces say they've arrested over 1,000 suspected is members in eastern mosul. we have an exclusive report on the raids. welcome to the programme. our other main stories this hour: the trump administration revokes us government protection for transgender 5tudents, angering teachers and campaigners. the chief of staff for marine le pen, leader of france's national front, faces a formal investigation over the alleged misuse of eu funds. i'm sally bundock. in business, supercharged! tesla says it's on track to hit the mass market this year. but is its surging share price becoming unplugged from reality?