tv BBC News at Five BBC News March 13, 2017 5:00pm-6:01pm GMT
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today at 5: nicola sturgeon says scotland must hold another referendum on independence. theresa may says it's a case of tunnel vision. scotland's first minister says a referendum should take place by the spring of 2019 once the terms of the final brexit deal are clear. i believe that it would be wrong for scotland to be taken down a path that it has no control over, regardless of the consequences for our economy, for our society, for our place in the world, for our very sense of who we are as a country. but the response from downing street is forthright — accusing the scottish government of losing sight of the main issues. instead of playing politics with the future of our country, the scottish government should focus on delivering good government and public services for the people of scotland. politics is not a game.
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we'll have the latest from westminster and holyrood in a moment. the other main stories on bbc news at 5: at westminster, mps are preparing to vote again on the brexit bill and on giving parliament a final vote on the brexit deal. rail services on some of the busiest lines in england are being disrupted because of a 24—hour strike. islamic state fighters in mosul put up tough resistance as iraqi forces advance on their positions in the city's old town. and the queen launches the baton relay for the 2018 commonwealth games in australia. it's 5 o'clock. our main story is the political showdown between theresa may and nicola sturgeon on the question of holding a second referendum on scottish independence. earlier today, scotland's first minister announced she would seek permission to hold another referendum by the spring of 2019
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because scotland did not want to leave the european union, and she accused theresa may of refusing to compromise on her government's approach. but the prime minister has delivered a forthright response — accusing nicola sturgeon of tunnel vision and of wanting to set a course for uncertainty and division. she urged the scottish government to focus on improving public services for the people of scotland. our first report is by our correspondent, lorna gordon. her report contains some flash images. nicola sturgeon has long signalled that a second independence referendum was highly likely. today she said that time had come. i believe that it would be wrong for scotland to be taken down a path that it has no control over regardless of the consequences for our economy, for our society, for our place in the world, for our very sense of who we are as a country. the first minister and the prime minister met here injuly to discuss scotland's role in the brexit process, with theresa may now on the brink of triggering article 50, ms sturgeon said those negotiations had failed. over the past few months, we have worked hard, really hard to find agreement.
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the prime minister and her government have been given every opportunity to compromise, but today, as we stand for all we know on the eve of article 50 being triggered, not only is there no uk—wide agreement on the way ahead. but the uk government has not moved an inch in pursuit of compromise and agreement. the tunnel vision the snp has shown today is deeply regrettable, setting scotland on a course for moral uncertainty division, creating huge uncertainty, and this is at a time when the evidences the scottish people, the majority of the scottish people, do not want a second independence referendum. so instead of playing politics with the future of our
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country, the scottish government should focus on delivering good government and public services for the people of scotland. the first minister will seek authorisation from the scottish parliament next week for what is called a section 30 order, handing power to hold a referendum from westminster to holyrood. she says she wants the right to hold a referendum between autumn 2018 and spring 2019. the main unionist parties are signalling that, unlike last time, they will campaign separately, not together to keep the uk in tact. it's a little over two years since the people in scotland last voted on whether they wanted independence. expect a very different campaign this time around. lorna gordon, bbc news, edinburgh. in a moment, we'll get the latest from our assistant political editor norman smith, but first let's speak to steven godden outside bute house in edinburgh. your thoughts on the timing of
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nicola sturgeon‘s announcement? your thoughts on the timing of nicola sturgeon's announcement? the timing has been central to all of this. she took a lot of people by surprise by going further than they expected her to. she began by setting up the context. since that time, she has worked hard to compromise with the uk government but had been met by a brick wall of intransigence and wants to vote for a real choice, a hard brexit being offered by the conservative government. she said she will go next week to hollywood to seek his mandate to begin negotiations with the government over a section 30 order. but it is what happens next which is the interesting thing. they give the government is the one with the power to say yes or no to that.
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she says she wants scots to make an informed choice so that they have more information about what brexit will mean but against that if they wa nt to will mean but against that if they want to do something about it is still time to take a different course. she has come up with this window of opportunity which would be in the of next year. we have had the response from theresa may initially but what is being seen as the, how is it being read by nicola sturgeon and those around the? if this game of brinkmanship has not begun, you had theresa may's response, she spoke about it being deeply reg retta ble. spoke about it being deeply regrettable. but crucially, she did
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not say weather or not it would be a yes or not say weather or not it would be a yes 01’ no not say weather or not it would be a yes or no to that. essentially, theresa may has three options, she could say yes to what nicola sturgeon what is suggesting all know, with political consequences, 01’ know, with political consequences, or she could say the ball is in our court. interestingly, it is the snp conference in aberdeen, so fascinating context for that. there we re fascinating context for that. there were strong words from the prime minister but there was not a precise noted the request? theresa may is keeping her options open. but she is the prime minister who is not only having to manage the greater political upheaval in the generation. she now faces the
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additional challenge of scottish independence and renewed demands for a second referendum, said these colossal struggles she is facing. for that reason, what we can take for granted is she is absolutely not going to want to fight on both fronts, which is there is no prospect of a second independence referendum ahead of the outcome of the brexit negotiations. in other words, before the spring of 2019, which means nicola sturgeon will not get her timetable. theresa may has not ruled out an independence referendum, even though downing street believed there should not be w011. street believed there should not be won. she has not done that because she does not want to give fuel to nicola sturgeon by increasing nationalist sentiment in scotland by dismissing out of hand any possibility of a second independence referendum. so her strategy is a long game. she will seek to take the
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heat out of this and she could do that because she has control of the process , that because she has control of the process, and that gives a huge advantage over nicola sturgeon, and she controls the timetable and she decides when and if there is a second independence referendum. and if there was to be one, my feeling is it would be well after britain has left the eu, depriving nicola sturgeon of one of her core campaign messages, namely if there is a vote before britain leaves, then scotland could argue it is still in the eu and it would remain a member of the eu and it would not have to reapply tojoin as an eu and it would not have to reapply to join as an independent country. some images of nicola sturgeon and theresa may when they met. i am just wondering, in the middle of this turbulent brexit process, when all the talk has been on collaboration and cooperation, where did the day's
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events and cooperation, where did the day's eve nts lea d and cooperation, where did the day's events lead relations?|j and cooperation, where did the day's events lead relations? i was struck bya events lead relations? i was struck by a sharp rebuke which theresa may delivered to nicola sturgeon, saying in effect, stop playing games. i do not think there is that much love lost between the two of them. one of the other things that struck me, talking to ministers this afternoon, isido talking to ministers this afternoon, is i do not get the sense that they feel that she has pushed them onto the back foot. i think they take the view that nicola sturgeon may have miscalculated in the sense that the question weather there really is an appetite in scotland for another independence referendum. the gut feeling is that people have had a lot of uncertainty and change in the past few years with a vote on scottish independence. do they really wa nt
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scottish independence. do they really want to go for another bit of uncertainty and another referendum. they take the view that nicola sturgeon has boxed herself in by upping the ante and the rhetoric. maybe she has miscalculated in downing street will seek to play this a and string it along and along and along and hope that nicola sturgeon loses momentum. and in the end, who knows? may be demands for independence would just fizzle out?. let's discuss the day's developments and what might happen from here. we're joined by the snp's leader at westminster, angus robertson. and also with us is labour's only mp in scotland, ian murray, who's also the party's former shadow scottish secretary. can you pick up on norman smith's suggestion there that the timing here by nicola sturgeon may have been misjudged when you consider the
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prime minister's response? know, and iam prime minister's response? know, and i am loathe to start an interview like this by correcting norman, but i have two. he was suggesting the timescale of the article 50 negotiations would end in the spring of 2019. they are supposed to end in the autumn of 2018. it is in that period that we believe the people of scotla nd period that we believe the people of scotland should determine their own future. that is what this is about. while we recognise that the uk as a whole voted to leave the eu, we voted by more than 62% to remain. fortu nately, voted by more than 62% to remain. fortunately, the uk government has not been prepared to discuss the proposals of the compromise that the scottish government has put forward, and that is why nicola sturgeon is absolutely right to put the prospects of the second referendum on the table. i expect there to be a majority for that in the scottish
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parliament, and given a majority in the parliament, it is unanswerable that there is a cast iron mandate which the snp receives the manifesto pledge explicitly on this subject is about scotland being taken out of the eu against the will of the people in scotland. ijust cannot see any circumstances where a uk prime minister will stand in the way of the democratic vote in scotland if that is the wish of the scottish parliament. in fact, that is something even people another political parties have acknowledged, not leastjeremy corbyn, who would not leastjeremy corbyn, who would not oppose a second referendum. on the tone in sharpness of the prime minister's response, did that surprise you? lots of people will be dented that response that she is in
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no mood to entertain these requests. iam not no mood to entertain these requests. i am not sure that turn comes across, especially in scotland, where we have been trying for months and months to reach a compromise agreement with the uk government. that paper was published, meetings we re that paper was published, meetings were held, nothing was agreed by the uk government, in fact, it sought to block the scottish government and parliament in having any say of any article 50 view. looking at things from a pro—european perspective, the uk prime minister had an opportunity to work together with nicola sturgeon but she has not taken that seriously whatsoever. given all of that, it is absolutely right that, given there is no progress whatsoever, it is right for nicola sturgeon to begin moves to have a referendum so we can secure our
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place in europe. ian, we have already heard jeremy corbyn saying he is deeply opposed to a second referendum. it is quite clear it is the view that they want to pose a second referendum. nicola sturgeon has decided that as the trigger for a second and possibly divisive second referendum. the worst thing for scotland is to compound the uncertainty of leaving the eu with even more uncertainty of scotland taking themselves out out of the uk. the snp is ripping scotland apart. they should take of the table and everyone should work together with laser—like focus on delivering the
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softest of brexits. on that question of delivery, if i were to ask you, to your constituents want a hard brexit, the kind the s&p wants to deliver, what would you say? 7896 of my constituents voted remain, unlike angus robertsons. maybe that is a question you should ask him. but nobody knows at this stage as we sit here today, from the eu commissioners right down to theresa may and the general public at the uk, what brexit will look like. therefore, to call a second independence referendum today, when nobody knows what the eu and uk will look like out of the eu, is the dereliction of duty. the first minister should make sure that scotland's public services and economy growing. but they are not. she disguises all of that with another divisive referendum. that is
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what they have to do here to be clear. they are either governing the country or they will take a stand rude that is divisive, uncertain and unnecessary. the first minister has decided to do the latter. but voters in scotland be forgiven for being less tha n in scotland be forgiven for being less than clear, having heard jeremy corbyn say he's fine with a second referendum? he has already clarified that position. let me be completely clear, the leader of the uk and scottish labour party and the uk labour party are saying no to a second independence referendum. that is perfectly and utterly clear, and if people want to hang on the odd word ofjeremy corbyn, and they are taking away from the very serious issue of the first minister of scotla nd issue of the first minister of scotland taking the country down another divisive independence referendum. if there is no evidence of the for this, why would you pursue it? let's or live in a
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parallel universe here. the thing thatis parallel universe here. the thing that is happening and is divisive and dangerous and has tunnel vision isa hard and dangerous and has tunnel vision is a hard brexit fixation of the tory party sadly being supported by the labour party pretty much every turn. we had an opportunity to hold the uk government to account to get safeguards to insist that the british prime minister reach a compromise agreement with the scottish government, and where is the labour party? they are giving the labour party? they are giving the tories a blank cheque and we're not prepared to do that, we do not wa nt not prepared to do that, we do not want to sit at the back of the brexit bus went theresa may drives off the cliff. all of the months she has had to reach an agreement with nicola sturgeon, there has not been one iota of progress whatsoever. so given that, it is entirely appropriate that the power to be in the hands of the people of scotland and ian should trust the abuse and judgment. the idea that we have no
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idea what brexit will look like is a fa nta sy. we idea what brexit will look like is a fantasy. we know it will take us out of the single market, we know will ta ke of the single market, we know will take away our rights as eu citizens and workers' rights. it will be very damaging. we have a choice to make, do we want scotland to be able to safeguard its place within the european single market, guaranteed out european single market, guaranteed our citizens rights, and work with out our citizens rights, and work with our friends and neighbours? our citizens rights, and work with ourfriends and neighbours? but our citizens rights, and work with our friends and neighbours? but we cannot accept a british prime minister in haughty tone is telling the people of scotland to sit on the naughty step and not guarantee their own position in europe. we say it is the people who should decide and thatis the people who should decide and that is why we trust the people. i am sorry that iain murray in the labour party do not. it absolutely trust the scottish people but what i do not trust is the scottish national party who do not speak for the scottish people but for the snp.
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let's trust the scottish people for one minute, they voted no in 2014. 0na one minute, they voted no in 2014. on a white paper, lies that were as bad as the brexit referendum, it came from the yes side back then. and let me clear up the issues around the eu referendum. we are currently debating two amendments that have come from labour lords. we had seven or eight amendments that we we re had seven or eight amendments that we were trying to get through. we are battling hard brexit. but it is not super scottish national party to go down that particular line. it is about time the angus robertson got out of bed to pursue this divisive and second referendum. out of bed to pursue this divisive and second referendumlj out of bed to pursue this divisive and second referendum. i would've thought the labour party would have learnt the lessons of not being on a hop with the tories and they should learn the lesson of not being in hop
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to them now. it is time to be on the side of the people of scotland, they should be empowered. but i do that britain is not heading towards brexit is a parallel rely reality. it is damaging for britain and scotland. that is why we need to safeguard and the option of having a referendum. i would safeguard and the option of having a referendum. iwould have hoped safeguard and the option of having a referendum. i would have hoped that asa referendum. i would have hoped that as a democrat, ian murray should fight for the right of the people determine their own future, and 62% of people in scotland voted to remain in europe. the british government are not interested in finding an agreement with the scottish government and given that it is right for the people to have the final say. i would hope that all democrats should think that it is the people who should determine our future and i trust the people of scotland to make the right decision. it is interesting the first minister only spoke a few hours ago. why does he not come on television, tellers how they would deal with the huge
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deficit in scotland, tell us what we would do about currency the uk is coming out. i agree with angus robertson, im in agreement with him about trying to stop them coming out of the eu, but it is clear that the snp will do anything they possibly can to deliver independence for scotla nd can to deliver independence for scotland at any cost to the scottish people, that is what is wrong and they should be ashamed of themselves. we will come back to this, gentlemen, but thank you both for joining this, gentlemen, but thank you both forjoining us. the scottish government's call for a new referendum was announced ahead of a vote in the commons within the hour on whether to give the prime minister the power to start the brexit process. mps will be considering two changes wanted by the house of lords
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to guarantee the rights of eu citizens in the uk and to ensure parliament gets a ‘meaningful‘ vote on any final 0ur chief political correspondent vicki young is in parliament for us now. parliament's whole involvement in this is coming to an end. cabinet ministers seem confident that they will get their way, they will overturn those amendments from the house of lords. 0n overturn those amendments from the house of lords. on his feet today has been david davis, the brexit secretary, trying to answer the questions posed by the house of lords and still been put by labour and other opposition parties in the commons. 0n the issue of eu citizens, he is saying it is a priority for this government are other eu countries that nothing can be resolved unilaterally because he feels he has a responsibility not just to the 3 million eu citizens living here but the1 million brits
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living here but the1 million brits living abroad. when it comes to this idea of a meaningful vote, he has said there will be a vote on a final deal, and he says as far as he's concerned, that is binding. over the la st concerned, that is binding. over the last five weeks, we have seen parliament at its best. honourable and right honourable members and peers have spoken with passion, sincerity and conviction. but i was disappointed that the house of lords voted to amend this bill. this bill isjust the next voted to amend this bill. this bill is just the next step voted to amend this bill. this bill isjust the next step in a long democratic process surrounding our exit from the european union. it will continue with future european legislation including the repeal bill to a range of specific bills week expect to introduce such as immigration or customs arrangements. parliament will be closely involved with all of these discussions and decisions. all eyes will be on conservative mps, those who backed remain in the referendum, how far
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are they willing to go to make sure these amendments do stay? they have been asking for assurances from the secretary of state about whether they will get a vote on the final deal but also, will they get a vote if there is no deal at all? some of them are very anxious that britain could leave. that means converting turned world trade organisation deal and the labour's part, they had this to say about tory mps. the question is about whether honourable members opposite willing to listen to the arguments in favour of the amendments which i know many are sympathetic to have concerns about. will they go along with the prime minister's increasing obsession to pass a clean bill an amended, even if that means ignoring amendments that would improve the bill and provide much better protection? that would improve the bill and provide much better protection7m
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could well be that the tory rebellion is greater than it has beenin rebellion is greater than it has been in the past but i still do not think they have the numbers to defeat the government. if that is the case, it will go back to the house of lords, and labour not willing to prolong this much longer. in theory, theresa may could trigger article 50 by tomorrow, but i am told it will not happen this week and we are looking towards the end of march, something she has always had the very many months, and downing street said she is attracted to that. you can follow all the latest developments from westminster and edinburgh throughout the evening on the bbc news channel and on the bbc website at bbc.co.uk/news. hundreds of thousands of commuters had theirjourney
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to work disrupted today as rail services on some of the busiest lines in england were disrupted because of a 24—hour strike. the walkout by members of the rmt union on merseyrail, arriva trains north and southern rail is part of a row over the role of conductors and driver—only trains. 0ur transport correspondent richard westcott reports. the joys of the monday morning commute. welcome to the leeds train. passengers across northern england today hit by the same strike that has caused months of misery for commuters in the south. northern are only running about 40% of their trains today. this is the eight o'clock train from keighley into leeds, a busy commuter service. it's really filling up now. it's been pretty busy. i mean, i usually get the train from ilkley, but there's no way i'd have got home, i finish work at half five and the last train is at half five so it a bit annoying. a couple of stops later and now
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it really filling up. it's been 0k, to be honest, it tends to get really busy at the last before leeds so in the morning it's always pretty packed usually. were you worried about it, what the strike was going to do to the service? a bit. if there is no train, i can't get to work or i have to take the bus and it would take like an hour and a half. it's a 24—hour strike with around 2000 rail workers walking out today across three companies, northern, merseyrail and southern. three strikes, same issue, the introduction of driver only controlled trains. where the guard no longer closes the doors. we fundamentally believe that services operated on a driver only, driver controlled operation, are fundamentally less safe. and every train in the uk should retain a second safety critical person on board. we put safety at the heart of everything we do. the independent rail regulator has actually indicated that this is as safe as conductor operation of the doors.
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this isn't about who opens and closes the doors, this is about giving our customers what they want. merseyrail actually stopped running trains completely this lunchtime as drivers refused to cross picket lines. southern rail has handled 30 strike days over the past year or so has learned to cope and will run most of its trains today. the next station is leeds, this train terminates here. if the south is anything to go by, passengers across northern england might have to find other ways into work over the coming months. pa rt part in the meantime what has the weather been doing? . it has been warming up, in ireland, mild for the
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next few days. though there is increasing cloud across the uk tonight and we are going to bring across scotland and northern ireland some outbreaks of rain and eventually into parts of northern england. but increasingly light and patchy, plenty of mist and hill fog to western parts of the uk. cloud around, temperatures are holding up. tomorrow wales and west england will stay mostly cloudy, northern ireland brightening up. how pricks of rain. plenty of showers in northern scotland, especially in the northern and western isles. that could have and western isles. that could have an impact on travel. the best of any sunny breaks across central and eastern parts of england, they may get to 18 celsius. very mild, especially when the sun is shining. not a huge amount of change. if you wea k syste ms not a huge amount of change. if you weak systems moving south—east but by the end of the week it will be turning cooler and windy and for
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many of us wetter. this is bbc news at five — the headlines. scotland's first minister, nicola sturgeon, has confirmed she wants to hold a second referendum on scottish independence between the autumn of next year and the spring of 2019. it would be wrong for scotland to be taken down a path that it has no control over, regardless of the consequences for our economy, for our society, for our place in the world, for our very sense of who we are as a country. but the response from downing street is forthright — accusing the scottish government of losing sight of the main issues. the tunnel vision that the snp has chosen today is deeply regrettable, it said scotland on more course for uncertainty and division. —— it sets. more strikes. the us envoy, called
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meeting strikes against islamist eight in iraq, says any fighters in the group still in mosul, will die in the city. after the capture of the last road into the city. and the queen's baton relay has been officially launched at buckingham palace ahead of next yea r‘s commonwealth games on australia's gold coast. the time is 532, that debate is still going on in the commons about the brexit bill, and the former deputy prime minister nick clegg is speaking. let's hear him. there is no first principal argument against it because they do concede the principle of a vote, theyjust end like us to have the freedom to decide what that vote should be on. have come up with some laughable argument which we have heard repeated today that if we have just
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the bog—standard plain vanilla accountability exerted by the house of commons and other place, to any announcement made by the prime minister in two years, it will serve as an incentive for the eu to give us as an incentive for the eu to give usa as an incentive for the eu to give us a bad deal. by that logic mr speaker, the only governments that can successfully negotiate good international agreements are dictatorships. to marxist, democracy can coexist with good international agreement so mr speaker, i have come to conclusion that the reason why the government is taking its heels in as stubbornly as a disease because it somehow thinks that it is going to strut its stuff and impress our soon to be eu negotiating partners by indulging in this parliamentary and procedural machismo here. who do they think they are kidding? today think angela merkel is but everything aside to look at this debate this afternoon and to say, look at the way that
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number ten is unceremoniously evicted lord heseltine, we'd better give them a good deal. does the secretary of state thing, that michel barnier, who i know well, a hardened eu negotiator, oh well we better lower the price tag because they are being so tough with their people. it is a ludicrous assertion, isimply people. it is a ludicrous assertion, i simply say to the government benches, in the last 59 seconds on these amendments is this. stubbornness, can be a sign of suspicion and weakness. rejecting the rifle conventional role of the house of commons and the other place to applied aquatic accountability to the actions and decisions of the executive can be a sign of weakness, not strength. and this specious argument that condemns the lack of democratic accountability in brussels, while it here, in the
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mother of all parliaments, is a slight of hand which should not be likely forgotten. nick clegg making his contribution this evening, the vote on the amendments of the house of lords will be taking place shortly, we thinking maybe the next half an hour or so but there is the former liberal democrat leader and deputy premised on nick clegg making his views clear. he is of course a very strongly committed remainer and is still trying to campaign for some changes to the brexit bill. that is still going on. it is on the bbc parliament channel as well, we can follow it if we get sinzelle some folks have been we will be back there. iraqi forces say that they are still continuing to close in on islamic state fighters in mosul. the us envoy coordinating the fight against so—called is says any fighters from the group who are still in the city
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will die there after — the last road out of mosul was captured by the iraqi army. mosul — iraq's 2nd biggest city — has been in the hands of the islamic state group for over two and a half years. it's their last stronghold in the country. 0ur correspondent richard lister reports. street by street, house by house, the fighters of islamic state are losing western mosul. this rare footage shows these militants under pressure. they are outgunned and outflanked, surrounded by iraqi troops, relying on mortars, car bombs, and exploding drones like this one. too tried to hold the advancing forces back. it's not working. they've lost a third of their territory. but civilians are paying a terrible price. there is little to go back to. my entire family, they are gone, said 0mar. he is 17.
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more casualties arrive every day. at this stage we have approximately 60, we get around ten cases every day. hundreds of thousands of people are thought to be in the city as the shelling continues. with all major escape routes cut off, the iraqis and their american allies believe the fight for the city is entering a decisive phase. any of the fighters left are going to die there because they are trapped. we are very committed to making sure these guys cannot escape. the narrow streets and crowded neighbourhoods make for a nightmarish battle ground. thousands have fled since february. many more will make this harrowing journey before the battle is over. well the countdown to the next
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commonwealth games got underway this morning, over the next 388 days, it will visit all of the common lot nations and territories before arriving on australia's gold coast. 0ur correspondent nicholas witchell was there to see it. it said to be the third largest international games. the venue for next year ‘s games is the gold coast. the queen won't be there but a message from her as head of the commonwealth will. she placed it in of the commonwealth will. she placed itina of the commonwealth will. she placed it in a bat on which will now be carried through the countries of the commonwealth to arrive on the gold coast in april of next year. the bat on relay was started by the australian track cyclist hannah mears joined
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australian track cyclist hannah mearsjoined by victoria pendleton. and then to add another australian touch, it was transferred to a camper van, used by generations of surfers and others. four years ago the bat on left the paris bound for the bat on left the paris bound for the 2014 venue in glasgow. 0ne the bat on left the paris bound for the 2014 venue in glasgow. one of the 2014 venue in glasgow. one of the early bat on carriers then was sir chris hoy, who helped it on the first leg of its journey as the bat on began to make its way across the continents to the nations of the commonwealth, to countries in africa, to the indian subcontinent. it was taken by steam train across sri lanka anti—islands in the pacific before returning to the united kingdom and the opening of the 20th commonwealth games in glasgow. next year after the bat on has repeated much the same journey, the athletes of the commonwealth will compete on the eastern coast, sporting rivalries will be resumed but within the context of a sporting event which like the commonwealth
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itself, prides itself on showing respect and mutual understanding. he was the original wolf of wall street — jordan belfort — the man who made a fortune in the high—octane world of finance — but was later found guilty of cheating investors out of millions — with fraudulent shares. during his time in prison — he wrote the memoir on which the hollywood blockbuster — the wolf of the wall street — was based — starring leonardo dicaprio. he now uses his experiences to teach people how to become successful. with integrity a key part of that process. i'll be talking to him in a moment — but first a reminder of the story on film. he's coming, he's coming. $430,000 in one month! look what you've got here, $26,000 for one dinner? this can be explained, we had the pfizer clients. the guys from argentina, we
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had to buy champagne. tell him about the side. $26,000 worth of sides? what do they do? your cancer? yes, thatis what do they do? your cancer? yes, that is why they are expensive. and we can speak tojordan belfort now from hammersmith in south west london. i'm just wondering seen the clip of the film, to what extent was leonardo de kock priya's portrayal and accurate one or one that you are happy with? very happy. it is better to have him playing, van died each year my dad is almost 86 years old it brings back a lot of memories, pretty amazing. you are in london, was ending your show, when someone asks you for a life lesson that you
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would like to share. what is that?” think that for me, one thing i have learned, is that to delay my own gratification, meaning when i was very young in my own 20s, what's to be rich and make money, and what i wasn't aware of was that sometimes the big wealth, the major wealth doesn't happen overnight. you had to learn going step—by—step, i believe in getting rich quick, but it is a lot of hard work before, through for yea rs. lot of hard work before, through for years. then it comes quickly. but, don't try and do it overnight. so thatis don't try and do it overnight. so that is my tip. at what point or with what deal, at what moment did you realise that you were taking a path which could lead to somewhere rather dark and for you and for many others by the way, as you have acknowledged, not a good place? sure. i think the one moment was
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when, early in my career, i had to doa when, early in my career, i had to do a trade and the trade didn't really look right. somebody was a mentor tommy eddie offered to give mentor tommy eddie offered to give mea giant mentor tommy eddie offered to give me a giant bag of cash, $400,000. and i knew it was wrong and he says eve ryo ne and i knew it was wrong and he says everyone does this, it is no big deal and there was a voice in the back of my head saying don't do this. i justified it back of my head saying don't do this. ijustified it saying i will do it once and never again. that was a slippery slope and that was the first time where i let my moral compass, my morality moved too far over and when you start that process it is difficult to go back. so few wa nt to it is difficult to go back. so few want to talk about ethics, the key is, don't ever take the first step over the ethical line. it is very half to be half pregnant, you need to be 100% committed. half to be half pregnant, you need to be 10096 committed. that is the interesting context, you're not talking about success and still making money but doing that within
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what you call a context. so give us if you examples of the kind para meters if you examples of the kind parameters or guidelines that you give people? sure. it is really easy for a salesperson, the overriding factor, is when you are trying to sell something, he's this in the person's best interest? is my prospect improving his life. is it going to help him, if it is in his best interest. if it is not in your best interest. if it is not in your best interest. if it is not in your best interest —— his best interest but it is in yours, then that is don't do the deal. will it leave him in the better place all the worst place, that is the overriding factor. as you look around, to what extent factor. as you look around, to what exte nt d o factor. as you look around, to what extent do you think that business adopt the approach?” extent do you think that business adopt the approach? i think things have gotte n adopt the approach? i think things have gotten better in certain parts of wall street. the always hear about the bad things that happen, i think overall, most people work on
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wall street, they are good people and they want to do the right thing. it is easy to get caught up in the everyday greed of it all and losing sight of what is right but i'd rethink that since 2008, there has been a trend and a commitment to make things better, i really think that. when you look at the way that people today are still reporting on mis—selling issues in the uk to do with kind of insurance policies and the rest of it, that is the reason for my question, you can present this and you have experience, where you can say look i film or school, but i'm just wondering to what extent is that reflected in the world of finance around you?” extent is that reflected in the world of finance around you? i know in certain companies in america and i speak all over the world, i know for sure, there has been an increase in the amount of attention they are paying to compliance but again you are right, it is not a perfect world and you will find that these things happening but the most troubling pa rt happening but the most troubling
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part is when, you hear about it at the top. if you hear one broker, thatis the top. if you hear one broker, that is always going to happen, people going off the reservation. the problem is you find out that the corporation was condoning it, it is an entirely different situation. here's the thing, i would have been making more money doing it legitimately. you will make more money doing it ethnically, you will make more money but it will take a bit longer and it is worth it. do you express run morse, you feel sorry for what you did, this seems to be 20 years on, this seems to be something that people in some insta nces something that people in some instances are simply not prepared to forgive you for? it doesn't bother me one bit... i think people are entitled to ask me that question, again, i made minorstakes entitled to ask me that question, again, i made minor stakes as you said almost 30 years ago now. but
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thatis said almost 30 years ago now. but that is ok. about my story, it is important to highlight that. i think people need to hear me say again and again that i'm remorseful. 0f people need to hear me say again and again that i'm remorseful. of course i have no problem saying that, but i think more than what i say is really what i have done with my life since then, i have made a commitment to go out there and spread a positive message rather than a negative message rather than a negative message and help people avoid the pitfalls and still make lots of money. i'm happy to always say i'm remorseful. a final question if i may, given that we are in a turbulent bid patch in the uk but certainly in the us to, you are i am told, a trump support. i'm just wondering now that we have had several weeks since the inauguration, and we have been able to see him in action, what are your thoughts on your support, have they changed at all? no, listen, he is our president, i think people should give him a chance, support him as a
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president, whether you are a democrat, or a republican, president, whether you are a democrat, ora republican, and president, whether you are a democrat, or a republican, and hope you succeeds. a successful presidency for trump is successful for england, the us, the world, any effort to undermine him at this point is ridiculous. it is beyond the point of whether you like him or hate him. if you support in that helps everybody else, then you have a couple more years and then you can start campaigning against him, but it isa start campaigning against him, but it is a bit late now, to try and like stamp the guy out. he is there and he's there to stay and used to support him, that is my opinion. are you happy with his performance so far? yes i am. i am. you happy with his performance so far? yes i am. lam. ithink you happy with his performance so far? yes i am. i am. ithink the whole rush of thing is complete fiction, i really do. —— the whole russia thing. the head of the nsa says there's nothing there, a lot of the stuff is the media. is he perfect? no. he does things that i wouldn't do, but a lot of this stuff
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is so overblown, he will say something, if 0bama might have said the same thing and they will give him a pass, they will make it to the worst thing in the world. does that mean that he's perfect? no i don't. but overall i agree with the trend. in an economic way, and i think he's doing some good things. we will let you get on with preparing the show. thank you very much from hammersmith. thank you. jordan belfort there, the original woolf of wall street. the time is ten to six just about, just being told, by our collea g u es just about, just being told, by our colleagues at westminster, that downing street is ruling out the possibility of the prime minister triggering article 50, the process of leaving the eu, this week. pointing instead to the end of march. lots of talk and certainly over the weekend about the prime minister possibly triggering article 50 tomorrow, tuesday. but we are now
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being told pretty firmly, forget that, it will not be this week at all. in all probability it will be the last week of march, that is the latest guidance we have. let's go straight to westminster because the leader of the lib dems tim farron is joining us. the article 50 timings, does that surprise you? not specifically the other issues, it might mean that the prime minister is successful to date in rebutting the lords amendments, would not necessarily rush to do that today. the reality is, that if article 50 triggered, then negotiations formally start. 0ur concerns remain the fact that we have no idea what the fact that we have no idea what the outcome of those negotiations will be, we don't know what the deal looks like, theresa may doesn't know. therefore it is wrong to impose on the british people something that they have never voted
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for. that is why we still maintain and continue to fight for the people, to have the final say on the deal whenever it is. given the timing of the deal because it is also crucial, do you think that the first minister of scotland has a point in terms of the timing of a possible second referendum. what are your thoughts? i think that the referendum call from nicola sturgeon today demonstrates, that the scottish national party only cares about the scottish national party and if you are bothered about britain's future in or out of the european union, then you want to make sure in the next sears, we will continue to fight for britain, the british people to have the final say on the deal. but how can you in the negotiations be in a situation where you don't know if a significant part of the country is in the country or not. i couldn't think of a worse time to damage scotland and the rest of the united kingdom, to have
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another go at the rest of scottish independence. this is about the snp buying on about the one issue they seem to be bothered about rather than being concerned about the people of scotland or the rest of the united kingdom. we have been speaking to other people, who was of the same view. 0n the debates today, these are members of the lords, what is your reading of the mood of the house today? it looks to me as if the labour party has given up, and asa the labour party has given up, and as a real shame, because however you voted, surely you think it is a terrible thing that the british government can make the decisions that it has without being properly a post and held to account. that is why they are of finding this. we think the government is not in acting the will of the people, they are interpreting the will of the people, some might say they are twisting it and our view is that we must continue to fight in both chambers of the parliament to fight for the british people to have the final say on this deal, to fight for
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our neighbours and friends, on the national health service, the care service, and elsewhere, for people to have the right to remain. the end of this process, a meaningful vote in parliament, so we don't have to accept any old dreadful deal. tim farron, the lib dems leader. the debate is still going on in the commons. we have one of the conservative mps, let usjoin her. we have one of the conservative mps, let us join her. i would therefore urge all honourable and right on the members to reject the lords amendments and give the prime minister the strongest possible hand. sir alex salmond. mr speaker i have only got three points to make, i thought rather significantly earlier in this debate, when my honourable friend, asked the secretary of state, whether he would be prepared to deport the european national is in
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our mixed, he said of course not, not somebody with our liberal credentials. of course that is the case and it would be the case for every honourable member with only one or two exceptions. the vast majority of the house wouldn't countenance ever doing that which is exactly why has the right honourable member has said, they ceased to be any sort of bargaining chip, even if we thought the international trade secretary was right, that they are important card, even if that was a cce pta ble important card, even if that was acceptable language, it is like a nuclear deterrent, if you're not going to press the button, it is not a deterrent and if you're not prepared to follow through deportation or to use people in that way then it cannot be a bargaining chip ora card way then it cannot be a bargaining chip or a card to play. therefore the correct course of action for the government, is unilaterally to accept and secure the position of our fellow citizens, working and contributing amongst us. there is no
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possibility of them being effectively used as a bargaining chip in negotiations, do the right thing and accept the lords amendment. yesterday, the nation was transfixed as we tried to interpret the latest government policy on brexit. should we follow in one channel, the advice of the foreign secretary when he said they would be no problem if we have two resorts to wto terms. 0r no problem if we have two resorts to wto terms. or should it be the advice of the international trade secretary, who admittedly on another channel was saying yes indeed it would be a problem. in fact we were watching the wrong people, we should have been watching, the brexit secretary on the andrew marr show, when he was actually getting to the guts and the nub of the problem we have. andrew mark "what happens if they don't accept it" meaning if we vote down the deal that the government brings to us in the meaningful vote. answer from the brexit secretary" well then, that is
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what's called the most—favoured—nation status deal, with the world trade organisation. " . when we were having the committee stage of this debate the right honourable members and others were trying to tempt out the minister of state when he appeared in the dispatch box, in terms of his parliamentary style. he told us that the government intends to have a meaningful vote. member after members said, what happens in this meaningful vote if we decide to reject the government ‘s terms. we had the answer yesterday from the brexit secretary, there and it is wto terms. her way or the highway. no vote can be described as meaningful if the alternative is, the damages of wto rules. alex salmond,. studio: giving his views on the brexit bill and of course on the amendments being proposed in the
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house of rules which are now being considered by the house of commons. we should be getting a vote in the house of commons within the next howl so. and alex salmond is one of those codger but in the last section of the debate. there is more coverage on bbc parliament. you won't miss any of it and coming up is fiona on bbc news at six. weevils to buy showing some scenes in the glorious weather. you can northern ireland did well. a bit of cloud but further east, 16.6 celsius and here is the view from the south—east of england. bathed in sunshine and this area of cloud in northern england and parts of wales and the south—west. certainly a feature for some of us and in northern scotland, some rain moving into northern isles, and we will ta ke into northern isles, and we will take an increasingly weak weather system through northern ireland, scotla nd system through northern ireland, scotland and northern england by the end of the night. quite misty and
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murky in the west with wales and western england, but a drizzle developing in the hills, cloud increases so we are not worried about frost. it will be a mild start to the morning. it will particularly as you go to higher ground be misty and murky in south—west england and wales and into the north—west of england. they queue brighter breaks for central and eastern england and in northern ireland a bit of rain overnight brightening up for the time. and in scotland there are sunny spells and the further north you are, there are showers and strong winds, gales and even severe gales. very gusty around some of the showers especially into the northern and western isles, some gusts may be in excess of 70 miles an hour. lighter winds as you come further south, the west with plenty of cloud, damp and drizzly. brighter breaks, mostly focused here. and somewhere in south—east england, could see 18 celsius and it could
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turn out to be the uk's warmest day so far. we will keep you posted. tomorrow evening some patchy rain sinking southwards, into wednesday morning. wednesday has more clout, southern england and south wales and northern ireland. still some outbreaks of rain. northern england and eastern parts of england, seeing the lion share of it on wednesday. another weak weather front, on thursday but more to come at the end of the week. and into the weekend with a strongerjet stream by then, how weather will be turning much more active. more cloud around over the next few days, some weak weather systems, but it is by the end of the week and into the weekend, we noticed the wind picking up, temperatures coming down and more of us will be seeing some rain by then. i want to stress again, that lasts into the weekend. the forecast is a lwa ys into the weekend. the forecast is always available. i believe that it would be wrong
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for scotland to be taken down a path that it has no control over, regardless of the consequences for our economy, for our society, for our place in the world, for our very sense of who we are as a country. the tunnel vision that the snp has shown today is deeply regrettable. it sets scotland on a course for more uncertainty and division. at westminster, mps are debating the brexit bill now, on starting the process of leaving the eu. we'll be following the result of that debate and the response at westminster, and in scotland to the first minister's announcement. also tonight, as famine looms for 20 million people across africa and the middle east, we report from somalia.
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