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tv   Dateline London  BBC News  July 9, 2017 2:30am-3:01am BST

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the latest headlines. president trump says his first summit wasa president trump says his first summit was a success. president trump says his first summit was a success. state television in iraq says security forces are on the verge of retaking the city of mosul, under the control of the so—called islamic state. some soldiers were celebrating on the streets but there is no official word of victory from the iraqi government. injapan 16 people are thought to have been killed, after heavy flooding destroyed many homes. search and rescue teams are still looking for the missing. the national weather agency said some places have seen more rain in a matter of hours than they usually get injuly. now on bbc news, dateline london hello and welcome
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to dateline london. i'mjane to dateline london. i'm jane hill. this week we are discussing what the world leaders‘ meeting in germany for the g20 summit might be able to achieve. we will look at continuing problems on india‘s border — both with china as well as pakistan, and also final thought about an exceptionally busy few months in the uk and abroad. just how desperate is eve ryo ne just how desperate is everyone for oui’ just how desperate is everyone for our holiday? before that lets introduce all my guests. iain martin is with me, columnist with the times, ashis rai of alrai media. nabila randani the french—algerian journalist, and henry chu, the international editor of variety magazine. a warm welcome to all of you. the discussions in the german city
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of hamburg involving the world‘s leaders come at a delicate time for the world. north korea, climate change, the immigration crisis, trump in europe. there is a long list we could discuss. let‘s see how much we can get through. iain, president trump saying in the last few hours there is going to be of a very swift trade deal with the uk. yes, it seems there is good news for britain and bad news. the good news is there is to be a trade deal, the bad news donald trump confirms he‘s coming to the uk. depending on one‘s view, obviously. britain is a very divided country and you wonder whether he might do us and you wonder whether he might dousa and you wonder whether he might do us a service, by uniting britain against such a visit.
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i think the other big story of the g20 is really the weakening of american power. iam reminded, weakening of american power. i am reminded, in weakening of american power. iam reminded, in having weakening of american power. i am reminded, in having seen a lot of these summits, thinking back to the violence in nice, genoa, against this backdrop of chaos and extreme violence. 15 years ago, these events we re 15 years ago, these events were really about american power and the projection of american power and the projection of american power and america solving the world‘s problems and that is now clearly no longer the case. power has become diffused and, for all that we focus on trump, for obvious reason, because he‘s entertaining, a controversialfigure, he is not really as powerful as he thinks or as americans think. it feels like everyone is nodding around the table. nabila. i agree with what you have just said. i think all the massive violence we've seen on the streets of hamburg isa we've seen on the streets of hamburg is a perfect metaphor for international diplomacy, and intense passions have been aroused.
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the principal responsible is donald trump's position as the alleged leader of the free world. this is hardly an environment for constructive policy— making. in the past, these summit used to be all about coalition and problem solving. now they are more about pr andindeed now they are more about pr and indeed showbiz. you only have to look at the way all these world leaders are marching off to the next meeting, posing for endless pictures, and i feel that, in effect, this testifies to a crisis in confidence and, in fact, the western consensus which has been so the western consensus which has been so prevalent for many years and people talk about post—capitalism but this is almost post—diplomacy where commentators are far more concerned about mis—speaking and that kind of thing rather than anything that has any substance whatsoever. no one dares say what
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they really think? no, ithink they really think? no, i think the idea that you can get any consensus no, i think the idea that you can get any consensus let alone policy done at this kind of meetings is frankly absurd. let's not forget that these leaders can link up at any time nowadays in this great communication era. the idea they can get anything done over very violent heart and social meetings is ridiculous. i agree that what comes out of these meetings are often blame —— bland, to the point of pointless, actually. how many of us can remember indicate that has been issued from one of these summits. ido of these summits. i do not necessarily think there is complete break from the past
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in that it is interesting to mention 15 years ago and protests against the americans. then you have actually president, president george w bush, he was talking about imposing tariff on steel which is exactly what is happening today so what is happening today so there is some continuity. that is process that was begun
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by president obama, wasn‘t it? it the retreat after the disaster. the leading from behind few of the world. obviously i‘m not associating obama and trump, they are different. but trump may be accelerating the process of america‘s retreat from the world but obama took different view from clinton. iam thinking different view from clinton. i am thinking even longer than 15 yea rs, i am thinking even longer than 15 years, the clinton era when there were demonstrations as well and the early bush years, both of those democrat and republican leaders sought america in terms of world leadership which now looks inherently ridiculous. that is all driven by trump. it would not have been that different from george bush. he took us out of kyoto. i think the difference with obama i agree that perhaps it did not project the same kind of persona we have come accustomed to with us leader but his idea of the policy was leading at multilateral organisation and trump is becoming isolationist and trump is becoming isolationist and that is something we cannot afford in this world. i think it is important to bear in mind that while the policy of withdrawing did begin under obama, there is vast difference. today we have the first g20
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where the united states is not playing as central role but it a peripheral role. and that is significant change the past. you have for big agenda items, i guess, and either the united states is not part of this or are being obstructive. climate change, the instance. international trade, the instance. you have the fourth element where they could be some consensus and that is the area of terrorism. counter terrorism. there is more or less consensus among the g20 countries. having said that, i think the problem is of course in the wording of these documents and the follow—up. there has to be, a strong enough wording which rarely happens at the g20 oi’ which rarely happens at the g20 orany of which rarely happens at the g20 or any of these summits, the bigger the group the more
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difficult to get stronger wording but then, comes the follow—up, nine years after the economic meltdown, we are still in austerity s0 meltdown, we are still in austerity so that tells you how much the action that has followed, or the resolutions that have been taken at the summit have done or not done. beyond the 620 summit itself, there is strong indication that world leaders take bilateral meetings seriously. as we are seen this morning, theresa may met with donald trump and they didn't hold hands on this occasion. but pledges from donald trump saying there will be big trade deals there will be big trade deals the reality however is that theresa may could be gone before proper negotiations start as so proper negotiations start as so could trump and this is an example of how the 620 meeting cannot, again, come across as more hot air rather than anything being achieved. it is all about good pledges which can turn pretty hollow in the end.
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you‘re saying that actually these meetings are worthless? should we not stage of any more and have the bilaterals? i think the meetings have changed and you have to accept that or take that into account. example i'm pretty sure that a lot of people in france and europe would have been shocked at the way the french president emmanuel macron was panning up with trump for example. of course you have to be respectful and diplomatic on those occasions but it is rather different than handing up with somebody like trump and i think president macron will have to learn that international politics is much more complicated than, you know, treating some like trump like buddy. i think having news like this does serve the purpose. after the financial meltdown
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that there was the 620 that focus on how to repay the global financial syste m on how to repay the global financial system and away with some good ideas from that but right now, i think with the us being so isolated, historically having being the leader i think there is real deficit. theresa may and how she has performed in the meeting with trump. she goes into this at a very curious and difficult time in this country. what is your take on how she has performed here? i think the way to understand it is to think of her as leader who has been propped up by her cabinet because they cannot necessarily agree on the replacement so it sounds cruel but she is almost cardboard cutout prime minister and this month the focus really is on can she make it through the conservative party conference in october or will she go by christmas? do the conservatives skip a next
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generation and go for someone younger which is difficult because it could be somewhat unkind and untested so she is really there is placeholder prime minister andi there is placeholder prime minister and i think the thing thatis and i think the thing that is most difficult, that is most difficult, that really complecates brexit it is that very often, this is by the policy still matters, the connection between leaders, that leaders can sometimes breach of the divide. if the talks get down on wrecks it, you would be the strong british minister to say the angela merkel and to emmanuel macron, look, there is gap here, there is compromise to be done and they can make brexit happen more smoothly and that requires the prime minister with the bit of confidence and some clout and some authority which i think it is fairto and some authority which i think it is fair to say theresa may does not have now. it is problematic for the british in terms of how the negotiations go. also looking at it from the other
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side, donald trump saying things like a trade deal will happen quickly does not mean anything. he does not even know what he's talking about. lam very what he's talking about. i am very sorry to say this but, these deals to not happen quickly. they do take a very long time. so you are completely misleading people by saying that. this week, trumpeting this great deal between the eu and japan which doesn‘t actually exist yet and it is going to take for five and it is going to take forfive yes... —— years. at least. another thought about climate change, is it going to go angela merkel‘s way? this is the difficult one. the world is biggest polluter is not pa rt of the world is biggest polluter is not part of the paris agreement any more so part of the paris agreement any more so how does the world proceed with this deal? of course, the rest of the world may continue to do what they have committed to do but without the united states i think
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it is difficult one to achieve the targets set in paris. the only consolation that i take from this is that in the us you have states, example my state of california, still committed to reduce carbon emission and have much more environmental sense and the idea that climate change is real and these are big counted —— needs to be. as much as possible. although you may not be happening in the federal level, or movements in state taking action. it is one of those issues that if big polluting industrial eyes countries are not united, i think your point, people will say will what‘s the point. it is not good being as green as you can in california despite its size if not everybody is on—boa rd. whether china and india actually live up to their commitments. it is good they are pledging to but china has had the history of environmental degradation even though they have policies that are supposed to alleviate that and so, hopefully they will live up to their commitments.
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we will be discussing that all again we will be discussing that allagain i‘m we will be discussing that all again i‘m quite sure. modi is one of the many leaders at the g20 summit and let‘s talk to ashis about many of the problems confronting him and in terms of what is coming out of hamburg, what do we know about any meeting between modi and president xi were some of the key tensions are. the outcome is not known. that has beena the outcome is not known. that has been a lot of tension of late, china has refused the meeting to start
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with stop they said the atmosphere is not right for such a meeting but what happened was that was a meeting of bricks leaders and the two did have a chat for about five minutes. that said, i think china has been playing very tough in recent times and china access really endangers india at the moment this is a bit unusual. since the peace and tranquillity treaty, things have been going very well. particularly for china but all of a sudden, the la st for china but all of a sudden, the last three years, they have become very tough and there is reason for this but at the same time, it needs to be sorted out between these two
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major asian countries. a bit unusual i am glad there was this talk but i am more concerned by the fact that india and pakistan are not talking. i find that border hotter than the india china border. given what is going on in kashmir and the fact that both are nuclear armed states, pakistan having just performed a testfiring of a nuclear missile earlier this week, that seems far more concerning to me than pakistan and china. in general, the tension between india and pakistan is always at a high level. as a matter of fact, between india and china, matters had called off considerably for a number of years, for nearly a quarter of a century. but between india and pakistan there is inevitably a face—off. the kashmir situation is very hot at the
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moment and, as you said, there is no dialogue between the two countries ata dialogue between the two countries at a ministerial level. but, fundamentally, it is a very tense situation between the two countries. is what is at stake here are the defining relationship, india versus china. there is a new book called the retreat of western liberalism that makes that point. two models are being tested alongside each other, both are newly capitalist one is autocratic and one is democratic. whoever wins the battle, as american
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power declines in the west and suffers an identity crisis, will become the great power of the future. that is indeed true. china has been offered to a faster pace in the last 30 years. —— china has been off to a faster pace. democratic india has had more challenges. both india has had more challenges. both india and china have slowed down and this is part of the melted down catching up, not quite allowing the two countries to take off as they would have liked to do. india was growing at 10% plus gdp. that was remarkable for a democratic country with hurdles and court cases to deal with hurdles and court cases to deal with before you can even begin a project like a motorway. in that situation, india was doing quite well. inevitably, the pace is faster
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in china. ultimately, india may get there but it is an interesting two models competing with each other.m seems to me that china‘s encroachment on that small disputed territory, it seems to me that it is all about the budding superpower, china trying to expand its sphere of influence beyond the south asia. this time around not in an armed conflict but it seems to me that it amounts to a geostrategic cold war. it is not the first time that these countries have had a stand—off. there was one back in 1962. an armed one at the time and it involved tensions over tibet and a long the border. china emerged victorious but this is the longest stand—off sofar between the two countries. we have
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been talking about america‘s retreat, if you see it that way, but does america have a role to play here in relation to china? between china and india, i am unsure. here in relation to china? between china and india, iam unsure. but what has been commented on a lot and what has been commented on a lot and what i find ironic having been american in china, is seeing the ascendancy of china and extending its influence it. be it on climate or the projection of power it is trying to do through naval forces, for example, in the shipping lanes around asia. that had historically been the united states protecting shipping lanes. i find been the united states protecting shipping lanes. ifind it worrisome that china is stepping into the breach but that is in another sign of america retreating from what had been its historic... duties? or, at least, the role it had played. been its historic... duties? or, at least, the role it had playedlj been its historic... duties? or, at least, the role it had played. i am concerned about the decline of
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america diplomatically and that i would not write off the us. even though it has been through economic turmoil it has still been by far the most innovative economy on earth. there is something... there is something inherently necessary for innovation and competition to happen, you need a free society. that is the problem, the unknowable thing with china. can you come in and autocratic society, can you innovate? you can replicate and become efficient but can you produce the answer to climate change, the next wave of the internet, all of the things that have come from america in the last few decades has its roots in bill gates being rebellious... a battle of ideas, saying that i will not go off and joina saying that i will not go off and join a state—run company and take orders from other people. i will go off and innovate and invented
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because my ideas are better off. that idea runs right through american society and even though they are in a bad place they should not be written off. if i may, with roaring from expensive wars will lead to an economic bounceback for the united states. whether that happens under the trump model, we do not know. certainly there was an indication that coming out of these expensive situations in the middle east and afghanistan was helpful and, gradually, it would lead to prosperity. that said, there was a strategic agreement between the united states and india which china saw as being against china. this was an agreement between president obama andi an agreement between president obama and i minister modi. that seems to have slipped away under president trump. this is also to do with an
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arms race and i think the visit of modi to israel testifies to that. to me it is another example of a populist global leader trying to humiliate millions of muslims around the world not only in his own country but in the neighbouring pakistan which he wishes to portray as the enemy within and one that threatens externally. instead of conciliation and democracy he sees the future in a constant armed struggle with his side being armed to the teeth and ready to dispatch as many muslims as possible when trouble arises. this is the israeli model and this is why modi has chosen to break decades of overt indian support for the palestinian cause and, indeed, decided to talk toafar cause and, indeed, decided to talk to a far right hawk like benjamin netanyahu. his behaviour in israel included snubbing palestinian
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leaders and stocking up on weapons. ifind leaders and stocking up on weapons. i find that outrageous that a leader like modi chooses to ally itself with a state like israel a state that constantly expands its illegal colonial entity. these are big questions that we will continue to debate. let‘s have a brief moment because everyjournalist i know in the uk and abroad is worn out over the uk and abroad is worn out over the events of the last few weeks. let‘s find out what our guest is our planning now that we are injuly. every political correspondent i know is on their knees. where are you off to? the south of france as quickly as possible in a few days time. i have never known a period where people are just have never known a period where people arejust in have never known a period where people are just in so much need have never known a period where people arejust in so much need of have never known a period where people are just in so much need of a holiday. brexit, trump, britain has
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been on this cycle... this has been a running for years and i think the combined with the heat, the political and media establishment in london has gone off its head and it needs a rest stop you are all in agreement. journalists have difficulty these days to switch off com pletely difficulty these days to switch off completely now that we have a 24—hour news cycle and we are sucked into all of this at any time of the year. i remember a into all of this at any time of the year. i remembera time into all of this at any time of the year. i remember a time when i used to... would go on holiday and catch up to... would go on holiday and catch up on the world by watching television news bulletins or reading newspapers. but now television screens are everywhere and you are encouraged to be connected to your device at all times. to me this is the most enjoyable time of the year because i go to lord's to watch test cricket. i go to wimbledon to watch tennis and then there is the golf coming up. i am looking forward to
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it. i figure with brexit looming that i should go to countries that i don't need a visa to visit so i have chosen scotland. i will be going to the highlands. you will love it. enjoy it, all of you. switch off your smart phones. and for anyone watching also on holidays, have a wonderful time. for those who do not, we will see you again over the course of the summer. for now, enjoy your week. hello there. after a warm, muggy night, sunday should bring us some more warm weather, with some sunshine.
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further north some cloud and rain across northern ireland and scotland as well. the reappearance of sunshine across the north of scotla nd sunshine across the north of scotland where it will feel fresher. temperature here in the high teens but further south we will see 20, 27 across england and wales with the odd isolated shower. the rain across northern ireland and scotland will edge eastwards into monday and eventually clear off into the north sea. monday will have sunny spells but a few showers during the afternoon when we could see the odd heavy shower. not a washout on monday with sunshine and a better day for northern ireland. temperatures reaching16— day for northern ireland. temperatures reaching 16— 25 degrees, not quite as hot by monday as it has been through the course of the weekend. welcome to bbc news, broadcasting to viewers in north america and around the globe. my name is duncan golestani.
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our top stories: the g20 summit has ended with world leaders failing to bridge the divide over climate change. president trump called it a "wonderful success". after two days of violent protests, hamburg starts to recover from the havoc caused by demonstrators at the summit. edging closer to victory in mosul, some iraqi government forces begin celebrating the defeat of so—called islamic state. hello and welcome to the programme.
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