a second meeting with russia's president putin during the 620 summit this month in germany. it is thought the meeting, hours after the formal talks and barely publicised up until now, lasted about an hour. it looks likely the president's eldest son, donald jr, will have to testify in congress about his meeting with a russian lawyer during the presidential campaign. former trump campaign manager paul manafort is also being invited. president trump has said the new republican healthcare policy should be to allow the current system, obamacare, to collapse, and spent the next two years trying to find a new one. his party has failed to find enough support in congress to pass their latest bill, even though they control both houses. now on bbc news, another chance to see stephen sackur‘s hardtalk interview with niklas frank, whose father was the governor of nazi—occupied poland. welcome to hardtalk,

i'm stephen sackur. today i'm in rural northern germany. stable, prosperous, 21st century germany. but i'm here to talk about the past and its relationship to the present. my guest is the writer, journalist and son, niklas frank. now, his father was appointed by hitler to be the governor general of nazi—occupied poland. he was intimately involved in the murder of millions of people. so, how has this german son dealt with the terrible crimes of his father? niklas, i'm wondering why you have chosen to make your life in the very

far north of germany. is it because you wanted to get as far away as possible from yourfamily background in bavaria? no, i still love bavaria. and every year we have about many weeks in bavaria, in the same village where i grew up. but it was my profession as a journalist at stern magazine, which i worked for 23 years, was based in hamburg. so, i had to lure my wife, she was attached to munich, because she is a big gardener, to her house with a big garden, so we've lived here for 33 years. this place where you now live is extraordinarily peaceful. yes, it is. would you say it has helped bring

you some sort of peace of mind? ah, no. no, i don't think that it depends on the country i am living in. it is in myself i that have found peace, because i acknowledge what my father has done. that i think is the first and most important step. thinking of my father is thinking first about his victims. there is no german around who has not certain pictures of corpses in his mind. and those pictures always remind me of my father, what he did. and especially when i look at him... that's the leather coat of my father. it's a scarecrow.

in german, you call it vogelscheuche. and this scarecrow is the most expensive one in germany, i would say, because i bought it from a soldier who had stolen it. the coat, you mean? the coat, yes. and someone gave me a call and asked it if i was interested in the coat of my father and i said yes. she wanted $500 and i paid it. you mean this old military greatcoat, leather coat, is actually your father's old coat? yes. what i have to admit, since the scarecrow is standing here, i have got a stronger connection to my father. it's very strange. and always, when i'm sitting in our living room, looking at him and say,

"this you have earned, father, being a scarecrow in the end." that's your fault. niklas, i want to hear more about your family history. i want to dig deeper into your relationship with your father. but i also want to get out of the cold north german wind. that is a good idea. why don't we head back into your home? ok, that's great. bye—bye, scarecrow. niklas frank, welcome to hardtalk. thank you. do you feel that you have some sort of a duty to your country to speak about your past? i think so, yes. i have the duty because, by chance, i was born in this family and i could tell the people... ah, how to behave with parents like i had. when do you think you first began to feel that you must speak out as volubly, as publicly

as possible about your father and about your feelings toward your father? it was a growing wish, because of the silence in germany. families, all the families of my friends, everybody was silent. and they didn't talk about the past. and this i couldn't endure, because i always wanted to know how is it that society behaves if it changes to a dictatorship. and i always have a feeling that germany is still prepared to do this.

and so i looked closer towards families and friends and connectedness, and ifound out that still there is something in the german people which makes me fear them. fear, your own country and your own people? yes, i would say so. well, i want to pick up on that, because that's a pretty remarkable thing to feel and to say. but before i get to your thoughts on the country, on germany, i do want to stay with the personal. because it seems to me in that period you're talking about, after the end of the war, and for decades afterwards, many families of senior, top nazis still felt a sort of, a residual, a vestigial loyalty to their kin, to their blood. did you never feel that? no.

especially not for my father. it's slightly different with my mother, because i have experienced my mother as a really fighting motherfor us. but she was a nazi too. she wasn't a nazi. was she not? she was never a member of the nazi party, nor was she a nazi. she hated all this screaming of her husband when he was delivering a speech. and she hated this kind of stuff. but she very much liked the luxury she found through the position of her husband. she was a very cold and inhuman woman. in terms of your father, i want you just to look at this picture with me of your father in his nazi uniform. when you look at him,

do you feel anger, rage, what do you feel? angerand rage, angerand rage. and the next thing was i always... the word which for me is always sticking to my father is, what a coward you are. what a coward. and that feeling isn't just a memory feeling, it's something that is very alive in you. it's very alive, it's very alive. it is still as if he is sitting in your place. i despise him, really. he died, he was hung, after the nuremberg trials, when you were seven years old. so i'm just wondering how

strong your memories can be of him when you were in that castle in krakow, his headquarters, the headquarters of the nazi force in poland, do you really remember what it was like and what he was like? no, i didn't remember what kind of profession he had. i only knew poland was ours. and the castle was ours. and the other castle outside of krakow was ours. and there were our properties. it was almost like you were part of the royal family. yes, it was, it was. and this i enjoyed very much, like my mother. i enjoyed it. what about the truth of the unimaginable crimes and cruelty as a young boy growing up from the age of, well, from being a baby to being six years old. did you have any awareness

of what was happening? no. the only thing was, when i accompanied my mother into the krakow ghettos, when she was shopping, maybe it was one visit, maybe more, but i remember especially this one visit, there was a lot of people, everybody was looking very sadly. and this was the only memory. but i didn't know where it was. later on i talked to my mummy, my beloved hilda, and i told her the flashes of my memory. and she told me it was krakow and we were together and i remembered her sitting beside me in the car. we now associate your father with the holocaust. he was instrumental in delivering

millions ofjews and others to their deaths, and he seemed to be enthusiastic about it. was there any way that anybody else in your family could have known exactly what was happening? exactly knew it, um, his wife, my mother. your mother? she knew exactly. you have to imagine this wawel castle in krakow, it was really like a kingdom. everybody knows each other, yes. everybody talked to each other. they knew exactly what was going on in the death camps and what was going on day by day. you have said, i think, that you have no doubt that your father loved hitler more than he loved his own family. yes, that's for sure. and you use that word love advisedly. you really mean love. really love, real love. it was something of a homosexual kind of love.

tell me about your last encounter with your father. he, of course, was tried at nuremberg as one of the top nazis to be held responsible for the genocide, for the war crimes, crimes against humanity. but before he was executed, you saw him one last time. yes. sitting on my mother's lap, it was a big room on the other side... i will always remember i was sitting behind this window with small holes to understand each other. i was sitting on my mother's lap. and knowing that will be my last visit to him. and he smiled at me and laughed. do you have a picture of him at nuremberg? it is here, during his... this is during the trial. during the trial, yes.

so, he smiled. and what did he say to you, what was his last message to you? the last message to me was a big lie. i knew that he would be hanged and he told me, "hi, niki," which was my name in the family, "hi, niki, we will soon celebrate christmas at our house," and i was really thinking, "why is he lying, why is he lying?" let's move forward and think about the impact of all this on yourfamily. you have siblings, two older sisters and i think two brothers. yes. could you, in the years that followed, talk to them, share feelings with them, actually have the same sort of understanding of what your father had done and what it meant to you as a family? i was living in a boarding school until i finished school. we were separated

in different places. but whenever we came together, after a short "hi," we were discussing our father. and then very slowly i found out the very different approaches to my father especially. and this separated me. because your sisters, what, they... three of my sisters defended my father as innocent victim of hitler, himmler and the justice of nuremberg. i would say it cost them their lives. they died very early. my next oldest sister, she wrote in her diary when she was a teenager, she said that she would not become older than our father and she committed suicide at a6, the same age my father was when he was hanged. my next older brother,

a really great looking guy, very sporting, a very funny guy he suddenly started to drink milk, litres a day and became fatter and fatter and died of all that follows when you are too fat. he was alive in my book came out and he attacked me in public. it sort of destroyed your family. yes, certainly. there are many people who hear your story and the rage and the anger you acknowledge to this very day. they say there is something inhuman about it because humanity is full of the deepest failings and flaws and in the end, part of humanity is to find forgiveness. i am an inhuman being.

i will neverforgive him. looking around in europe and also in other countries such as america, wherever, i find a lot of families have fathers who have killed a part of that family. i cannot forgive that. never. do you ever wonder if you may have had a better, happier, more positive life if you had found a different way to deal with what is, after all, your father's terrible crime. not yours. yes but these crimes, you can say it was my father but it comes out of demolishing society and demolishing families and killing innocent children.

they were the victims, not my father. my father did it, he gave the signatures for death penalty and that sort of thing. he was responsible by german law, he was the deputy of hitler in poland. every death camp, he was responsible for. the true power, certainly it was with himmler, but he was responsible. with you talking to me, asking me this question, maybe you can see my face going red, i become furious again because it was unbelievable in which he was involved. but that is...those red cheeks, does not allow father to define you? define me exactly? you are giving your father another form of enormous power. he wielded this terrible power over

so many millions in poland and still over you. i think you once called yourself a puppet on a string. why not cut those strings? do not allow your father, even in death, after so many years, to pull your strings. too many victims. let's not just talk about you. let's also talk about germany. you introduce that earlier and i would like to return to it. it seems to me that you feel fearful, still, of your own country and your own people. today. 72 years after the liberation of auschwitz. why? you don't know my people as i do. i do not trust them. nobody spoke, a normal german family never really spoke about what our fathers, mothers, grandfathers, grandmothers have really seen. whether they were cowards, whether they were actively involved in the system. they are silent.

this is like a swamp. that swamp was never drained. so here and there in germany you find nowadays, you find these poison flowers coming up. meadows full of them. but when you say there is suddenly a meadow full of poison flowers that is where i wonder whether that is fair. this interview is being filmed by three young german men in their 20s and 30s. why should they have to bear any sense of guilt or shame or responsibility? no. no guilt, no shame. acknowledge. really acknowledge. if you talk to these youngsters, really, you will find out a lot of uncertainty, or not really wanting to talk about it. they say why should we be taking high school trips to bergen—belsen? why should we have to,

as kids, be fed this sense of our collective responsibility? the responsibility for me as a dead word. you have to know your history, the history of your people. it hurts to admit that there was a time in germany where we left a family of people all around the world and we killed millions of innocent people in a system which was really a difficult system. and to be against the system then was to have a very brave character. but this hurt, you can endure, like i endured and i still love germany. i love being world champion in football, for instance.

really. i am a nationalist. i also love very when merkel said she will do this refugees, now it may be thrown out, but that was a good thing. you can especially see with merkel, everything changed because we are treating them as if they werejews again. that swamp is coming. you really feel that insecure about your germany today? don't trust us. especially, i was very happy when the european community suddenly... suddenly we were watched countless all over germany, we have very determined centrists, so that what gave me a happy feeling — now england is leaving, poland is like a dictatorship,

hungary, czechoslovakia, austria, italy, who is the strongest left? the germans. but germany today is a bulwark of moderation, of tolerance compared to so many messages coming from hungary or marine le pen or from so many people in so many corners. as long as our economy is great and as long as we make money, everything is very democratic. but let's wait and hopefully not see if we have five to ten years heavy economic problems and the swamp is a lake, it is a sea and we are swallowed again. i swear it to you.

i don't trust it. it always makes me... thinking and feeling exactly wait a minute, there is something else. you can lead a happy life but there is something else around you. yeah, it hurts but, on the other hand, because i have had a really happy life. ask my grandchildren. niklas, what a nice way to end and we must. thank you for being on hardtalk. hello, there.

i've got the thunderstorm globe behind me, because huge thunderstorms broke out across the south of the uk during the latter part of tuesday. but that was after quite a glorious day on tuesday afternoon. plenty of sunshine up and down the uk, and pretty decent temperatures. 26—28 celsius was tuesday afternoon's high. there was lots of sunshine across the north, a little bit hazier in the south, and then thunderstorms broke out, initially across the south—west of england, and then spreading into southern and south—eastern counties. torrential downpours, flash—floods reported, and also strong, gusty winds and very large hail. so there is likely to be further disruption for more showers and thunderstorms during the overnight period and into wednesday morning. keep tuned to your bbc local radio for the latest updates. now, thunderstorms continue to rattle on across england and wales during the overnight period. if you catch one, it could be very severe, and likely to be disruptive as well.

but not all areas will get them. another warm and muggy start to wednesday. wednesday morning dose thunderstorms and showers will trundle northwards into scotland, and we'll see further thundery showers pushing into northern ireland, and then into wales and north—west england into the afternoon. but for england and wales, for the majority it will be a fine afternoon. the sunshine will come out, it will feel humid, and temperatures will top 29—30, maybe even 31 celsius across east anglia and towards the east midlands. further west you are, it will be a bit cooler, cloudier, and showers and thunderstorms will make inroads into wales, north—west england eventually getting into northern ireland and western parts of scotland. but even ahead of it, we could see some thundery showers breaking out in scotland. so that's how it's looking through wednesday afternoon. now, as we head on through the evening period and overnight, those showers continue to trundle northwards and eastwards. potentially some severe ones. we could have flash flooding in places. the risk of hail and gusty winds with these storms. behind it, it starts to turn a little bit cooler and fresher,

with clearing skies for northern ireland, into the far west of britain. but ahead of it, again, another warm and muggy night to come with the showers and thunderstorms. for thursday, again, it will be quite a warm and humid start in central and eastern areas. those showers and thunderstorms continuing in the morning and into the afternoon they should eventually clear. something brighter pushing in and something fresher. we'll notice that, too. temperatures reaching 17—23 celsius in the south—east. so that will be feeling certainly much cooler than the last few days. into friday and saturday we're into that cooler regime. westerly winds bringing sunshine and showers off the atlantic. temperatures range from 18—20 celsius. hello, this is bbc news. i'm david eades. our top stories: back in the spotlight. donald trump had a second discreet meeting with vladimir putin at the g20 summit. the question is why. the deadliest migration on earth — the unhcr says increasing numbers of refugees crossing from libya to italy are losing their lives. they have handed out the lifejackets

to people on the rubber boats, and they have stabilised the boat. they are about to pull the people in, and they have heard that there is somebody on there with a gunshot wound. the bbc is to reveal how much it pays its top talent. it is thoughtjust a third of the highest—paid stars are women. and, 18 months after his pioneering double hand transplant,