hello, it's wednesday, it's 9 o'clock, i'm victoria derbyshire. this morning we're in north kensington, five weeks since a huge fire engufled the grenfell tower block — claiming the lives of at least 80 people and destroying the lives of hundreds of others. we saw a lot with our own eyes. we saw friends, families... the people in my building were really close to me and they were like family. seeing them go wasn't good. you're so brave. i feel like when you have to switch the tv on so you can have light when you're

sleeping so you don't have to think about a little boy that died in your room. this programme has now discovered that burning cladding on grenfell tower would have released 1a times more heat than a key government safety test allows — we'll get reaction. kensington and chelsea council are meeting for the first time tonight where the new council leader will officially take up her post, but with many residents having lost faith in the council there are some calls for a snap election. nothing can improve for us. it is getting worse and worse every day. it's worse because by now i should have received counselling. i haven't. i haven't. this morning we'll hear more from survivors of the tower who have never told their story publicly before. this morning we're

in north kensington, we will talk to survivors and members of the council. there are worries that the council meeting will not go ahead because there are planned protests. this programme has now discovered that burning cladding on grenfell tower would have released 14 times more heat the bbc has learned that the type of cladding used on grenfell tower would have released 14 times the amount of heat that is allowed under a key government safety tests when burned. research conducted by the university of leeds suggests the energy emitted from the cladding and insulation would have been equivalent to burning 51 tonnes of pinewood.

it added the cladding's plastic core would have burned "as quickly as petrol". the contractors who fitted the cladding and insulation said they both passed all regulations. a big clean—up operation is taking place in cornwall, after flash floods swept through the village of coverack on the lizard peninsula. residents reported hailstones the size of 50 pence pieces, and the village was divided in two by a four foot torrent of water. engineers will assess damage to roads and property in the area. it comes as storms across other parts of the south of england also caused problems elsewhere. in kent flash flooding trapped people in their homes and saw fire crews called out 60 times in 60 minutes. the bbc will publish details of how much it pays its talent later this morning in its annual report. for the first time the salaries of those who earn more than £150,000 a year will be revealed. only a third of the names on the list are women. the bbc director—general, lord hall, said the corporation had argued stars‘ pay should not be made public. i don't think it's right that we

should have names against salaries for stars for presenters and others. i believe that will be inflationary which i think it will be bad for licence fee payers and i believe it will be a poacher‘s charter. look, we put the arguments out there, we lost. the australian prime minister said he will seek an inquiry after an australian woman was shot in the us. us media reported that miss damond was in her pyjamas. phil mercer is in sydney for us. tell us more about what happened and the reaction, phil. the australian prime minister says that the death

ofjustine damond is shocking and he wa nts to ofjustine damond is shocking and he wants to know how a woman dressed her pyjamas seeking help from the police could have been shot dead. the investigation will look at why the officer's body cameras were not working and we understand that the ao—year—old yoga teacher from sydney had called the police to report a suspected sexual assault in an alleyway next to the home of her american fiancee. australian diplomats have been charged with finding out more about the tragedy and a few hours ago the family of justine damond in sydney held a silent vigil on a beach to remember the woman who was killed on saturday evening. the leaders spoke towards the end of

a formal dinner but the white house has not revealed what was discussed. president trump has condemned media revelations of the talks as sick and insists there was nothing sinister about it. inequality in the uk is reported to have fallen during the decade since the financial crash. the leading economic research group the institute for fiscal studies says the gap between the richest and the poorest households has narrowed with the most noticeable change in london. it said one of the reasons for the change was a fall in earnings during the global financial crisis which started in 2007 and has remained steady since. schools need a more coherent strategy for what to do in the case ofa strategy for what to do in the case of a dangerous event taking place on their premises according to the teaching union the nasuwt, it says schools have ad hoc drills to deal with threats and wants a come prehence himself plan for so—called lockdown procedures. the government says it constantly reviews the

guidance it issues. businesses will be banned for charging fees on debit and credit card transactions from january. s the treasury says the fees cost consumers £473 million in 2010 alone. hundreds of thousands of mercedes—benz diesel vehicles in the uk are to be recalled to improve their emissions systems. daimler is under investigation for alleged emissions cheating. similar to that of volkswagen. a total of #3 three million vehicles across europe are affected. let's catch up with the sport. hugh is there. good morning, hugh. good morning. a thrilling final over win has sent england's women to the world cup final. they restricted south africa to 218, it looked like a comfortable target for england. after losing eight wickets

in their reply, it came down to the last over. england will play australia or india at lords on sunday. i think it is kind of sinking in right now. once you get past the relief of getting over the line and we knew we came into this tournament with a good shot if we played good cricket and you can't win turnments in you're not in the fiblement we are pleased to be over the line and one more game to go! england and scotland's famous old rivalry will be renewed on a bigger stage than ever before in women's football when the two meet in the european championships in the netherlands. england are aiming to improve on their third place finish at the 2015 world cup which has them amongst the favourites for the tournament. scotla nd favourites for the tournament. scotland are playing in their first major competition, but have lost key players to injury. their head coach says it will be her proudest moment in football when they walk out on to

the pitch later. the biggest thing is to try to enjoy it. try to embrace the experience and that's been the message the whole journey 110w been the message the whole journey now from when we qualified, all the preparations, it has been really about, you know, enjoy every single second. we have put in so much preparation as in physical work, so much work off the pitch and becoming a more together team and i'd like to say this is the most prepared we have felt going into a tournament. so i think that's why there is a lot of belief and a lot of determination around the squad. that's all from me for now. we will have the headlines just after 9.30am for you. thank you very much, hugh: good morning we are back in north kensington, it is five weeks since the fire which took the lives of at least 80 people at grenfell. today

we are at the tabor knackical christian centre. the donations keep coming ona christian centre. the donations keep coming on a daily basis. not as in great a volume as the early days as you'd expect and we will show you around ina you'd expect and we will show you around in a little bit. we are here for a number of reasons. again, tonight, kensington and chelsea council are supposed to meet for the first time since the disaster and a new council leader is officially ta kes new council leader is officially takes up her position at that meeting. there are one or two worries that the meeting may not go ahead because of the protest that are planned outside. we will talk to some of the protesters later on in the programme. we are here because five weeks on, some of the survivors tell us they are still in exactly the same limbo effectively as in the immediate aftermath of the fire. still homeless. still living in hotels, with none of their

possessionsment many unable to go to work. many unable to gain access to realistic financial support. they are not getting access to the right mental health support or any mental health support in some cases. and some of them say when they go to sleep at night, when they try to go to sleep at night, when they close their eyes they see images of their dead relatives, neighbours and friends. and they need some mental health support desperately. 0f course, people in mourning, grieving for the people that lost their lives five weeks ago. they feel pretty much let down by almost everyone. problem with sound i want to take you inside the tabor knackical christian centre if i may. there is a notice on the door, "thank you to all our volunteers from tcc." this is pastor derekment thank you for having us here. pastor derek. good morning, beverley, hi.

come in. mind this carpet here. you will see around you men's clothes, women's clothes, jewellery. now, these are all new items. these are new items of clothing. these have been donated by marks & spencer, by john lewis, by primark because pastor derek thought the least people who survived the fire and those who were evacuated, the least they deserved was new items of clothing. this, this is a small, i mean, these have been made by a guy who came from wales and delivered boxes of these, just a small cushion that he drove down in a van to deliver here at the centre. let me introduce to you various people. some of them you may recognise. some are speaking publicly for the first time about what happened to them. good morning, everybody. good morning. this lady escaped from the

second floor of grenfell and next to her is her daughter and her partner matthew, thank you for talking to us. matthew, thank you for talking to us. you may remember mahad, we spoke to on the morning of the fire and he spoke so articulately about how he had escaped, about what he had witnessed in the early hours of that morning. and also, alongside mahad is his 15—year—old nephew. thank you for talking to us. how are you? i'm fine, thank you. you're living in a hotel. yes. with your... my grandson. how is that? well, it hasn't been easy because the boy keeps having after a traumatic incident he keeps waking up during the middle of the night. i want to

go to my room where he was co mforta ble go to my room where he was comfortable and being autistic and adht. you say you're fine. yeah, i'm fine. i'm breathing. i'm alive, but with every other thing around, it could be better. do you feel it's getting worse? well, i would say it's getting worse because if after six weeks and we are still in the hotel, unsure of oui’ are still in the hotel, unsure of our future, we are still in the hotel, unsure of ourfuture, we don't are still in the hotel, unsure of our future, we don't know where we are going. we don't know where we are going. we don't know where we are coming from. we sleep in a small cubical in the hotel room day in and day out. it could be better if things were taken more seriously

because it looks like it is the charity organisations that has really helped us a lot. if the government has done what they are supposed to do by now, we should be out of hotels. i know you have been offered accommodation. it's in westminster which is a way away. that's not where your gropbd son goes to school. that would be a tricky thing for you to take him to school from another borough every morning. do you have any idea when you might be offered something more appropriate for you and your grandson? ido i do not. and i don't see why i should be moved out of my borough. i raise my five children in this borough. i lived in that area for most of 35 years. we moved out of my

comfort so the wandsworth for eight yea rs. comfort so the wandsworth for eight years. temporarily. 0nly comfort so the wandsworth for eight years. temporarily. only six months ago, i was moved back into grenfell tower. i am today with nothing. ago, i was moved back into grenfell tower. i am today with nothinglj thought she was ok. my mum is very strong, very resilient. but now i know she is not ok. why do you say that? being the sort of person she is, she has tried to be strong but people around her, people in the hotels come to talk to her, they call her mum. she doesn't want to break down, she doesn't want to show

that she is hurting and going through a lot of things but after the phone call i got at 1:30am last week, when she was rushed to hospital, i knew she was not ok. people in the hotel were telling you... they had to call an ambulance because she was having palpitations. i was going to come down but she said to them that she knows what it's like. she told me what the doctor had said. he had said he believes she is suffering from post—traumatic stress disorder. goodness me. good morning. how are you doing?|j don't good morning. how are you doing?”

don't know. my my chest is hurting, my heart is hurting. my body is aching. my wife is not well. my children are concerned for their well—being, i'm concerned for their well—being, i'm concerned for the development. it's a lot. tell me more about how your kids are doing. my wife and i are trying to keep them as occupied as i can. my son is aware of the situation in terms of not being at home. continuously asking for home. asking for his toys. it's really, really difficult. as

the father and the husband, it's scary when i don't know what's happening. it's really, really scary. how was your wife? she is really stressed. how does that ma nifest really stressed. how does that manifest itself? she hasn't had any help either, no counselling. she doesn't want to leave the kids, if i'm not there, she looking after them. when i can, i am there to look after them and see if i can take them for a few hours. it's difficult. is it getting harder? it is. it is getting harder

because the deadlines are finished in terms of when the enquiry was fresh, there was a deadline and a sense of government being held to account. local authority needing to ta ke account. local authority needing to take action urgently. but since the three—week deadline has finished... for the office of permanent accommodation? i knew they were not going to fulfil it. i told the housing minister, itold going to fulfil it. i told the housing minister, i told sajid javid, i told them face—to—face, i saidi javid, i told them face—to—face, i said i know you are an mp and i know you're going to say what you can to get out of this but please don't like to us. and if you cannot fulfil this, let us know. i've got two kids to worry about and a wife. please

don't mess around. there are elderly people, children, disabled people, traumatised people, people of all levels in this. stop playing around with people's emotions. at the end of the day, they are not taking it seriously and there is nothing we can do about it. let me bring in your nephew. thank you for talking to us. you are 15. you see what is happening to your family, how do you cope with this? it is not the easiest thing to cope with. just knowing that your family, your uncle is not all right and not knowing how to help or comfort him, just hoping he will get better. it's difficult. we are going to talk in a few minutes about what you think really could be done right now because there are things we have discussed this morning that are not happening.

first, i want to bring our audience that a reporter has made. five weeks on from the grenfell tower fire in west london, we've come back to the area to see how people are coping, and what the needs are. it's really striking how five weeks on these tributes are still extremely moving and powerful, and still daily, people are coming here, to pay their tributes, bring candles, write notes, bring flowers and just pay their respects. our first stop is a church just around the corner from the tower. the pastor and a team of volunteers are helping the survivors and local community start again. joseph, his son and his brother—in—law karim escaped the fire from the second floor. until now, they haven't spoken to anyone from

the media about their story. hey! what happened — tell me what happened that night. after 12, just after 12, we hear like noise from outside and on ourfloor, so we was like, i was, like, "what's going on?" my wife was still sleeping, my son, so i wake up off my bed and get up and went outside. i was, like, "what's going on?" so i saw two firefighters and i was, like "what's going on?" they says, like, "a minorfire." they have it under control, go back in ourflats, and we get back in our flat. after 10, 15 minutes i was, like, we can see smoke, and we are seeing the fire escalating, going up the building, so i was, like, "i'm not waiting for them firefighters, i'm going out through the window." we could have been dead if i had listened to them. and then i used my head and came out

and take my family out. we was worried about my brother—in—law, but so happened when we came out, he was out. so it was all good. we were focussing on other families now. we tried to help people, but they didn't let us, and then we were just watching these people in the windows, waving flashlights and screaming. i couldn't do nothing, man. five weeks on, what's improved for you? nothing. nothing improve for us. that's getting worse and worse every day. joseph, with his partner, son and brother—in—law have been living in a single room at a hotel for the past month. they have refused to move into alternative temporary accommodation, saying that what they were offered was unsuitable. what accommodation have you and your family been offered? temporary accomodation in w2.

somewhere in westminster. so outside the borough you live in? yes, we rejected it because it was temporary, and it wasn't suiting my partner's needs, so therefore it wasn't really suitable for us. was it a tower block? definitely. you are still coming to a donation centre. you haven't been rehoused, you are in a hotel. what would you like to see happen in the next five weeks? for me, and for every other survivor, they want the government to meet their demands, which place them in a house first, then they can talk about anything else. proper housing, anything else goes after. guys, it was so nice meeting you, man. thank you for talking to me. karim, my friend, take care, bro. all the best. see you later. it's an eye—opener to think that

five weeks on, joseph is still in a hotel. four people in one room — him, his son, his brother—in—law and his partner. we managed to talk to another survivor, mamudu rumayatu. she is currently living at a hotel in kensington. in her late 60s, and with her 12—year—old grandson, she also lived on the second floor of grenfell. five weeks on, how are you doing? i can't sleep well in the night. i wake up with palpitations, scared that something might happen to me again. sweating. that hasn't diminished at all, five weeks on? no, it hasn't. it's worse. because by now, i should have received counselling. and you haven't? i haven't.

how long have you been here for? we moved to this hotel about ten hours after the fire. and i was taken to the ninth floor, which was very difficult for me to absorb into my system. ninth floor of the hotel? yes, not after coming from fire, that you put me on the ninth floor again. so i agitated that i want to go down, i don't want to stay up there, so they brought me down. she cares for her grandson full—time, who is autistic and has adhd. she carried him out the tower during the fire, injuring her wrist and back in the process. talk to me about the room. you are in this room, with your grandson. do you like it, is it good enough for you? no, i don't like it.

this place is like we are in prison. i mean, under normal circumstances, i'm not 20 or 30 years old, i'm almost 71 years. have you been offered accommodation elsewhere, have you been offered a property? yes, i was offered one, but in a different borough, which i went and had a look at today. it is very thoughtful of them, at least, to remember that they have to offer us a place, but we need a more spacious accommodation for a special needs child, to be able to move around. not clustered. and more so in a borough where he is used to his family, his people, his doctor, his playground, everything. i want to live in the local area where i had lived for 45 years. are you hopeful you are going

to get somewhere that suits you any time soon? well, iam hopeful, and i think the government or the people, the authority has an obligation to put me in a suitable place of my choice, and of the little boy's choice. you think they are going to do that? hopefully. some people watching might think residents are demanding too much, that they are not being flexible, that maybe expectations need to be managed, what would you say to those sorts of people? i think whoever think they are demanding too much has never gone through what we have gone through. imagine you going to bed in the night, you've made your home the way you want your home. all of a sudden, there is fire, nobody wakes you up,

you manage to survive, and somebody comes to tell you the expectation is too much? what do they expect us to do? fold our arms and say, "oh, come on, help me, please"? it doesn't work that way. we've all worked hard in that building, to be inside there. i have worked all my life. how long do you reckon it's going to be until you can begin to live a normal life with your grandson? as long as we are at their mercy. as long as they decide, when they decide to move us from here, that would be a way forward. because right now we have no, no hopes, nothing. we are just living from day—to—day. if not the charity organisations, i wouldn't be wearing this today. we are the ones affected. we lost our properties. we lost lives. some people lost all their families.

nobody from the council has ever come and said, "get them all together, let's sympathise with them. let's pray with them." i don't know what's next, because it looks like right now, some of them are going on holiday. we are here suffering. you would call this officer on the phone, "oh, sorry, she's gone on holiday. oh, sorry, he's gone on holiday." what kind of holiday? this is not the time for holiday for anybody. it's a wake up call. can i give you some tissue? it's clear that many survivors are struggling with trauma, and are not receiving essential mental health support.

hello. after leaving, mamuda at the hotel, i went back to the church to meet alex, a local volunteer. i go to the hotels, i see, you know — you start one week, they're happy, but i've gradually see this despair and hopelessness set in each day. their shoulders become, you know, coming down. you think they're becoming more disenfranchised ? absolutely. disillusioned, disenfranchised. one of the survivors tried to commit suicide not too long ago, another one was suicidal last week. really, and you are in touch with these people? yeah, i'm in touch with these people. the pastor had to go out to them. very much so, i'm in touch with these people. it's real. hello. hi, hi guys. you 0k? all of us are lucky to be alive.

whether we lived here or anywhere. right now, what do survivors need? we've never had anything of this nature post—war uk. so at the end of day it is a lot. the communication needs to be on point, and all these splinter groups need to come together and focus on the task in hand, to get these people back to a life. can you cite examples where you have seen authority act impressively? in this situation? in this situation. yes, when they were deducting rent from people's accounts, considering that the place... is burnt. that was impressive, man. that was some kind of insensitivity to a level. that was impressive. so it's been five weeks since the fire. what do the next fire five weeks hold? 0rganisation, communication, continued love and outreach

to all of of those people. i've already started saying to people, make emergency packs, learn how to crawl around your homes in the dark. learn escape routes. this has taken over your whole life. no, this is my life, because it's happened to me. i live this. i live this fear every day of my life, because it's happened to me. so this isn't new to me, this could have been me. coming back to the area and meeting new survivors and volunteers, it's striking to see the level of distrust locals still have of the authorities. many are still heavily reliant on donations and the support of volunteers, making one thing very clear — survivors still have a long road ahead. 0bviously reinvited the government

representatives of various cabinet ministers tojoin us representatives of various cabinet ministers to join us on the programme today. we also invited kensington and chelsea borough council to be with us today. they said no. some of your message as you're watching our guests and watching ashley's film. karen on facebook says, "these people have lost their homes and everything they own and they are lucky to be alive. why shouldn't they stay in the community they are used to?" nicole says, "these people have lost everything and now the connell want to re m ove everything and now the connell want to remove them from the community thatis to remove them from the community that is supporting them. i cannot believe anyone would want to prevent them from receiving support and housing in their local community." northernan says, "politicians are distancing themselves from all responsibilities." amanda distancing themselves from all responsibilities. " amanda says,

"these are the stories we should be hearing, decent people wanting a decent life." this lady escaped from the second floor of grenfell with her 12—year—old grandson. mahad is here. he escaped with his wife and two very young children and mahad's 15—year—old nephew. people watching might be thinking in every hotel there will be a mental health expert, a finance expert, a housing expert. is that happening? are there teams of those people? the only people we see every day, every day, the charity organisations, friendly neighbourhoods. we don't see anybody except the stewards and people that are working there.

see anybody except the stewards and people that are working therem that a surprise to you? disappointment, not surprise. disappointed. initially when mum was at the hotel she was upstairs consta ntly at the hotel she was upstairs constantly because she got hurt trying to escape. now she comes downstairs. the people that she says apart from the survivors are the volunteers and these people have been incredible. i can't say thank you enough. everything my mum has got everything she is wearing is from them actually going out. they come in and ask, what size are you? what do you want? what do you need? they go out and get these things. those are the people that are downstairs. no professionals are downstairs. no professionals are downstairs. if i may downstairs. no professionals are downstairs. ifi may come in. the first time i moved into that place i did tell the hotel or the kensington and chelsea, i have back problem. i bought myself an orthopaedic

mattress. i slept on the floor for seven days. i asked kensington and chelsea to please give me an orthopaedic mattress. it took that long before a charity now give me an orthopaedic bed mattress which i now sleep on. your mum is alive and surely the money from the millions of pounds that we know now has been raised by generous british people, surely that's getting through. what do you say to those people? i'd like to say thank you very much. i don't know half of you. half of you don't know half of you. half of you don't know me. your kindness has been overwhelming. the amount you have raised has been generous. where i live in hampshire people have come up live in hampshire people have come up to me and said, "but they are getting all this money." a colleague said, "your mum is alive." i looked

andl said, "your mum is alive." i looked and i thought actually yeah, she is alive. but what i didn't realise and what most people don't realise, yes they are alive, but that's not it. there is so much to do. the money that's been raised. we don't know where it's going. we think it's going to kensington chelsea, wherever it's going, but i don't understand how kensington and chelsea can be responsible for the money for something that they were negligent about? why can't the government help these people? why can't they put the money together somewhere and give it to these people to help them. people feel that they have to beg. some of these people are doctors, lawyers, honestly, i don't think it matters what profession anyone is. i wouldn't wish this on anyone. i wouldn't wish this on anyone. i wouldn't wish this on anyone. i wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. i think the government should take more responsibility and look after mummy. i can't blame the nation thinking well these people are getting lots and lots of money, they're not. they haven't got a

penny of your money yet. i can assure you of that and we don't know where it is. mahad, you have still and you've articulated this to us before, that you still have serious worries about the numbers in terms of the official numbers that we have from the metropolitan police that at least 80 people have died and they say it could be sometime, if not next year, before we know the true figure. you we re before we know the true figure. you were worrying last night because it was raining here. tell our audience why. last night we had a storm, thunder and lightening and a lot of heavy rain. the building is still not preserved. the evidence is not preserved and there has been negligence on all accounts, at all levels. before, during and after the fire. we still don't know the total

numberof fire. we still don't know the total number of presumed dead. and so many people, so many different levels are all grieving. we need answers. we need to know how many people are missing. we need to know how many are confirmed dead and we need some answers and some people are waiting to find out if there is any remains of their loved ones and we really think that they are dragging their feet about this, on this investigation and in terms of... sorry to interrupt. the police have said, we care. we are on our hands and knees going through that tower, carefully a nd and knees going through that tower, carefully and dig gently.” and knees going through that tower, carefully and dig gently. i will be honest with you victoria, we need to still see that, it is not what they are doing right now. from the

meetings i have had with the police commander he did specifically say that the floors are not stable and therefore, they are getting builders in. at that meeting he also did express to us that there will be a covering for the building and soon as possible and yesterday i have come to learn that they have now proposed for november. now, that's not as soon as possible, is it? also, the fact that the police commander himself said that there will be builders going in there in order to stabilise the floors and landings and you know to make the building more stable is worrying and concerning because in the same sentence which they say that it's not safe and it needs to be stabilised they are saying that it's safe for the adjacent and neighbouring buildings to be

occupied by people and that's again another form of neglect and again disregard to human life. so it's no surprise that what the general public has donated in terms of money and clothing has been taken by central government and been micromanaged in that sense. the building is being neglected. i'm going to pause for a moment if i may. i'm going to talk to pastor derick. thank you for the moment. i know we're going to hear more from you later. pastor derick is going to talk to us about the things that have been donated. the volume has reduced which is expected? what we have decided to do is give the survivors brand—new clothing which have been received from the

companies around john lewis, evans and marks & spencer's, and they have and marks & spencer's, and they have an opportunity to come here, in an environment like this and go through with an assistant and volunteer. so you assign a volunteer to each survivor? that's right. and then them through. even making these kind of decisions, it's stressful. absolutely. some of them are still traumatised. some of them were still in the same clothing since they left the tower. really? because of the trauma and they came here to see what we have. these are not charity cases. a good of the survivors had an apartment and they have got their own business. that's why we have decided that what they have gone through, let's give them brand—new stuff. here we have shoes and fli p—flo ps stuff. here we have shoes and flip—flops and we have got a good number of sizes that they are able to go through. and... this is the

room where you keep the food effectively? right, we have got the side hall where the food is. you can see the different range of food dough nated by waitrose and sainsbury‘s and tesco. are you able to ring them up and say, we're short on baked beans, is that how it works? we haven't been short on anything for quite some time. this came in the first week, we didn't ring anyone, theyjust started delivering. as they received their apartment, they are able to come here and pick up food. we've got brand—new mattresses we had delivered to the homes of some of the survivors. 0utside delivered to the homes of some of the survivors. outside in the garden, there are more food and toiletries we were able to go through and sort out what they need. thank you for having us here today. the night, one of the reasons we are

here today, is the night, the kensington and chelsea borough council are due to meet for the first time since the fire at ground. conservative elziabeth campbell. you'll remember the former leader nicholas paget—brown and his deputy rock fielding resigned 48 hours after we last broadcast our programme from north kensington. there's been so much talk about the cladding of grenfell and indeed other tower blocks around the country. this programme has learned that the type of cladding used on the outside of grenfell tower — when it's burned — releases 14 times the amount of heat than is allowed under a key government safety test. 0ur reporterjim reed is here with more. so we've heard lots about the cladding used on grenfell and how it appeared to spread the fire. what have you find out and how significant is it? the witnesses have also talked about

that night, how quickly the flames seemed to spread up the building. these cladding panels in the installation, were installed over a couple of years as part of this £10 million refurbishment of grenfell tower. we now know the government tested these panels. those panels did not pass that safety test. they failed the test of limited combustibility. what is surprising if by how much they failed. the heat produced by these panels was 14 times the limit set by the government to pass that test so significantly above the level that would have been allowed under those regulations. so how do we know this? this is really complicated stuff. it is very complicated. we asked the government for the test results but they are not making them hubnik at they are not making them hubnik at the moment. we had been passed a

copy of the french test data. we presume it will come through with the same results. the three academic check the result is that the calculations we were making a reasonable calculations. the cladding on the outside of the building, behind that, equally as important, you have the installation. we spoke to academics at lee's university and they said there is about 18 worth of this installation and that would have omitted heat at around eight times the level set either government as safe. so you have the cladding and the installation behind it. and what do the manufacturers say about all this? there are two of them arconic say this is only one part of the overall system. and another french company

who made the installation, they say they can't comment while this is this ongoing investigation. we can now talk about that a bit more with fire safety expert and chartered surveyor arnold tarling you've spent 30 years in the building industry. what do you make of this finding that the cladding burnt with 14 times the heat than allowed under government safety tests? i have to say i am not surprised with the materials used in there. we have been using materials for many yea rs, have been using materials for many years, london had the building act section 20 and none of these materials would have been allowed. we have not allowed those materials on building since the great fire of london in 1666. we learned that long ago. what does it tell us about building regulations in this country? the building regulations in this

country, they are not fit for purpose. it was stated in the latta house coroners inquest that they immediately immediate review. they are convoluted and misleading. you can get comments saying you cannot use installation below class h two ona building use installation below class h two on a building but then you test it. class b and c may pass. so have you failed or have you passed? then you get comments about composite materials such as the aluminium composite material which tells you in two places, you ignore the core. then you get people like the national house—building confederation with the recommendations on external cladding. and they were quite categorical that aluminium materials

we re categorical that aluminium materials were perfectly acceptable unless they contained polythene inside them. you can interpret these how you like. some people saying the material is filler. filler isn't the polyethylene. filler is what you put in to filla polyethylene. filler is what you put in to fill a dent or a hole. what should happen now? we need a com plete should happen now? we need a complete investigation into building regulations. we need a complete rewrite to make it simple so that anybody can understand it. and we need to change the advisers to government who have been mis—advising the ministers. because

i don't expect my mp to understand the intricacies of fire safety in a building, i expect the advisers to be telling them. when you find that the advisers have conflicts of interest because they also are working for private industry, because we no longer have a government owned fire testing station, what is going to happen, they will cover things up. they will not release that information because... we don't know they will cover things up to be fair. thank you. eric sehn, a lot of the grenfell tower survivors suffering from ptsd and they need professional counselling. dave said on twitter, sarcastically, it makes you proud to be british but my heart goes out

those suffering. linda says all my prayers are with these families. paul says this is that disgusting, the way this government have treated the way this government have treated the survivors. five weeks on and still no real help. we will talk more about the lack of mental health support because the more people we talk to, survivors and residents talked about the lack of mental health support three weeks ago when we we re health support three weeks ago when we were here. on the morning we were here, the day after, and still, five weeks on, there doesn't seem to be the professional help. it is definitely out there but people can't access it somehow. we talked with a lady a little earlier about... it would help her, she's living in a hotel with her grandson and it would help if she went down

to reception of the hotel, there was somebody to help with finances, debt, mental health. you are back with us. josephjohn debt, mental health. you are back with us. joseph john is debt, mental health. you are back with us. josephjohn is also with us. karim as well, joseph's brother—in—law and while staying over on the night of the fire. drjohn green, the nhs clinical lead for the mental health response to the fire, dr gary wannan, consultant child and adolescent psychiatrist and dr shamender talwar, a psychologist who has offered his services to those affected by the fire for free. he has seen 32 survivors altogether, with some of them members of the emergency services. tell our experts what you think you

might need. what would be helpful?” thought i was ok initially after escaping from the fire. i inhaled some smoke and i saw the red cross and they said it would clear in time. so i thought everything was ok. but subsequently, i start waking up ok. but subsequently, i start waking up at 1am, having palpitations, sweating, confused. with the little boy as well, he is autistic and he has adhd and his routine has been stopped so he wakes up saying, let's go back to the flat, let's go to our

house. we cannot go back to the house, it is burned. it is difficult for him to accept the fact it is burned. so we are still living under the delusion that we are ok. but if we had experts coming around, knocking on our door, saying, you are not ok, you have gone through this trauma, this is what should be done. we will wake up and come back to reality. it is like we are still dreaming. let me bring in the child and adolescent psychologist, this lady has a 12—year—old grandson.” think this is really upsetting, to hear how you as a family have been affected. i think that some of the symptoms, the distress you are speaking about can be understood. 0ther speaking about can be understood. other people who go through trauma experienced something similar. i'm

not saying it to play down what is going on fear but rather to say that these are things that are recognised. the things that you can be helped with. clearly for you and your grandson, at this stage, to be having symptoms as you are, it is vital you do get the right help.” think people know that. but where do they go? forgive me, i am not speaking on your behalf. where did they go? people should come to them. just to say, as well as my clinic being literally up the road and i can give you my contact details and details of the clinic, please tell me where you live. i know that my colleagues have been going around hotel rooms, they have been out and giving information. i'm sorry it has not got to you. there are outreach clinics going out, we have been commissioning as part... watt is an

outreach clinic somewhere people go? they let us know where they are and an outreach clinic will come out to them. we have a message that we want to be clear to everybody that there is no wrong front door. they can go to the gp, the schools should be supporting, just to give us your information, for anyone to let the gp know that this is going on and what extra support they need. we really wa nt what extra support they need. we really want it to be around a person. we are talking about traumatised people, if you say they should go... why can't they reach us? we are traumatised. there are four people here who were affected. have any of you... has anyone said, ican have any of you... has anyone said, i can help you with the mental health side of things? no, we had

just been getting harassment. why? in my situation, we suffered mental health issues and they are not helping, they are just making things worse. every day, they are harassing me. about what? someone i know it was on sleeping pills before sundown she wanted the same sleeping pills because they work for her and they don't want to get hurt. they are trying to make it look like she needs to go in the mental hospital. doctorjohn green... you're the chief psychologist and clinical lead for the mental health response to the fire at grenfell tower. we have sent teams into the hotel is trying to find as many people and

reach as many people as possible. 0ne reach as many people as possible. one of our problems is to know where people are. i would say if you... you need to let us know if you have not been reached at this stage and we will do something about this. you can go to your gp, style nhs111 and that goes straight through to us on g re nfell tower. that goes straight through to us on grenfell tower. and we will be going out and trying to do exactly what you were saying, trying to find people who haven't been reached. we're coming up to the news. i know mahad wants to speak. it is a huge issue. it is ten o'clock. let's bring you the weather and here simon. last night we had a spectacular show with lightening. 0ver spectacular show with lightening. over 150,000 spectacular show with lightening. 0ver150,000 lightening strikes were recorded. we had plenty of weather watcher photos sent in to us. this is one of my favourites from last

night in dorset. some really good fork lightening there. there are more thunderstorms in the forecast today. if you get hit by a thunderstorm, like yesterday, we could see flash flooding, frequent lightening, some hail and gusty winds. for many of us this morning a quieter period. lots of dry weather with sunny spells, but it is later into the afternoon where across northern ireland, into north wales, the midlands, southern parts of north—west england could see the risk of those really intense thunderstorms, but it will be a very warm if not hot day again. temperatures in the south east could reach 32 celsius. the storms work their way further northward into scotland. elsewhere, becoming drier and as we go through thursday, it is turning fresher. the risk of storms in the morning, by the weekend sunny spells and showers, and temperatures where they should be for the time of year. good morning.

we're in north kensington — five weeks on from the grenfell tower fire which claimed the lives of at least 80 people and has left the survivors traumatised and uncertain over their futures. we're still in the hotel unsure of our future. we we're still in the hotel unsure of ourfuture. we don't we're still in the hotel unsure of our future. we don't know where we are going. we don't know where we are going. we don't know where we are coming from. my chest is hurting. my heart is hurting. my feet are aching. my body is aching. my wife is not well. my children, i'm concerned for their well— being and development. children, i'm concerned for their well—being and development. it's a lot. it is a lot. survivors and their families say the money still isn't getting through. yes, they are alive, but that's not it. there is so much 20 do. to do.

they haven't got a penny of your money yet. i can assure you of that and we don't know where it is. those who escaped the fire are understandably traumatised, but some still haven't received counselling and say their mental health is getting worse. it's worse because by now i should have received counselling. i haven't. i haven't. some mess angs. ages. andrew says "i'm disgusted that no one from the government is prepared to attend the meeting." rich on twitter says, "these people are alive but their life has gone." ryan on twitter says, "it is so

important that you are keeping the spotlight on this issue. that the victims get answers that they need and aren't forgotten about." chuck says, "thank you for continuing to highlight the inadequate establishment response. seeing the g re nfell establishment response. seeing the grenfell survivors today still in limbo is so shameful." we will bring you more from north kensington after the news and the sport. good morning. here'sjoanna in the bbc newsroom with a summary of today's news. it added that the cladding's plastic co re it added that the cladding's plastic core would have burnt as quickly as petrol. the contractors who fitted the cladding and insulation say they both passed all regulations. the bbc will publish how much it

pays its talent. the salaries of those who earn more than £150,000 a year will be revealed. a third of the names on the list are women. we can speak now to the labour peer and steve ba rnet professor can speak now to the labour peer and steve barnet professor of communications and order of battle for the bbc. steve, communications and order of battle forthe bbc. steve, is communications and order of battle for the bbc. steve, is it right to be publishing these? no, i don't think it is. it is unnecessary. it's perfectly 0k to publish figures in an anonymised form which would satisfy the need for transparency and accountability, but to have names against figures is mean spirited. i think it's a deliberate attempt to try and undermine the bbc andi attempt to try and undermine the bbc and i think the consequences will be quite dangerous in terms of inflating talent fees across—the—board, notjust inflating talent fees across—the—board, not just for the bbc and in the end, making it much more difficult for the bbc it attract the kind of talent that we need for a public service

broadcaster that is still loved by everyone, where everyone pays the licence fee and where it's important to be popular as well as high quality. can there be proper transparency and accountability without naming names? what we know asa without naming names? what we know as a result of names being in the frame now is that in the band of presenters earning £150,000, two—thirds of them are men?” presenters earning £150,000, two-thirds of them are men? i think and that's wrong and the director—general made it clear that within less than five years he wants to address that and it's perfectly possible to make that commitment and to have those figures without having the names attached. you can publish bands and you can publish genders and you can publish it on an annual basis so that you can see whether there is inflation, to what extent it's going up. you don't have to publish individual names to have that kind of transparency. do you think it is right that the pay of presenters is being published in this way? yes, i do. steve is wrong.

this is public money. everyone has to pay £147 in licence fee however poor they are and we need to know what it is being used for and who is getting how much they are getting. because you know, some presenters we know, will be getting five, ten times a teacher or much more than a memberof times a teacher or much more than a member of parliament or in many cases more than the prime minister. forjobs that are are not as responsible as teachers or members of parliament or prime ministers. we need to know that. we need to know where the money is going and why should they be embarrassed? we know how much teachers are paid. we know how much teachers are paid. we know how much teachers are paid. we know how much each member of parliament is paid. we know how much professors are paid. why shouldn't we know how much presenters are paid? tony hall says he is satisfied that all of the 96 who are named are worth what they are being paid. are you? well, that's his judgment. we are being paid. are you? well, that's hisjudgment. we don't know

yet. isjohn that's hisjudgment. we don't know yet. is john humphrys that's hisjudgment. we don't know yet. isjohn humphrys who comes on in the morning, fourtimes yet. isjohn humphrys who comes on in the morning, four times a week perhaps, sneers at public servants, is he worth getting paid ten times that of classroom teacher? i don't think so. i think we're paying people far too much and it will be interesting to see exactly how much people are getting paid. i'd like to interview john humphrys for example and ask him if he canjustify getting hundreds of thousands of pounds forjust coming on and asking questions, prepared for by researchers all the work being done by someone else? i don't think so. i think it's entirely out of proportion. there you have precisely the dangerfor the proportion. there you have precisely the danger for the bbc of these salaries being published where you have politicians who need to be held to account, notjust by the bbc, but by journalists across—the—board, to account, notjust by the bbc, but byjournalists across—the—board, who will be complaining about the kinds of salaries that their interviews

are earning and it puts the bbc at a huge disadvantage because there is no transparency in itn, we won't see the salaries of itn or sky presenters or channel 4 presenters, it is just the bbc and that's going to undermine the bbc‘s ability to attract the best talent, the best journalists, the best news presenters and in the end, it's actually going to undermine the bbc‘s reputation for integrity and independence across the world and i would appeal to lord fawkes if you ca re would appeal to lord fawkes if you care about an independent bbc and if you care about keeping a popular bbc as well as a high quality broadcaster please think again about the consequences of what you are advocating. you have got to be very careful what you wish for.” advocating. you have got to be very careful what you wish for. i think it is irresponsible of you to say we don't care about the bbc. i have backedit don't care about the bbc. i have backed it for years and it is a wonderful broadcaster. it is accountable. it is public money. the poorest people in the country have

to pay £147 of the it is a pox tax effectively. we need to know how that money is being used and it is being used effectively and the bbc up being used effectively and the bbc up until now has not made things clear. we shouldn't have to wait until 2020 for women doing the same job on the bbc to be paid the same as men. it should happen now, straightaway. lord fawkes, professor stephen barnet, thank you very much. the full details will be published at 11am. a big clean up is taking place in the village of coverack in cornwall. the village was divided in two by a four—foot torrent of water. it comes as storms across other parts of south of england caused problems elsewhere. in kent flash flooding trapped people in their homes. the government has won its high court bid to obtain a permanent ban on industrial action by prison

officers. the ministry ofjustice took up the case after the poa, the professional trade union for prison workers called on its members to ta ke workers called on its members to take action short of a strike. that's a summary of the news. let's catch up with the sport with hugh. england and scotland's famous old rivalry will be renewed on a bigger stage than ever before in women's football tonight when the two meet in the group stage of the yrn championship. england are aiming to improve on what was a very impressive third place finish in the 2015 world cup. scotland are playing in theirfirst major 2015 world cup. scotland are playing in their first major tournament, but lost key players to injury. their head coach says it will be her proudest moment in football when they walk out on to the pitch. the biggest thing is to try to enjoy it. try to embrace the experience. and that's been the message the whole journey now from when we qualified, all the preparations, it has been really about, you know, enjoy every

single second. we have put in so much preparation as in physical work, so much work off the pitch and becoming a more together team and i'd like to say this is probably the most prepared we felt going into a tournament. so i think that's why there is a lot of belief and determination around this squad. the match kicks off at 7.45pm. there is full commentary on bbc radio 5 live. the first group will already be more than half—way around their opening round the open. royal birkdale is preparing to host the tournament for the tenth time with one of the most memorable in 1998 when a 17—year—old justin rose chipped in to win the amateur prize and finish fourth. that set him on his way to a professional career of great success during which he won the us open and 0lympic during which he won the us open and olympic gold, but he says he'd still love to win at birkdale. it's the

one tournament that i've dreamed about since i was that young boy and especially at royal birkdale you ta ke especially at royal birkdale you take an open championship and you ta ke take an open championship and you take an open championship and you take a major championship anywhere, but if they happen to line up at special venues, i feel fortunate i was able to win at merion and for me here to do at royal birkdale would bea here to do at royal birkdale would be a full circle moment based upon i guess sort of what i did in 1998. so yeah, it's a special venue and like you say, lots of good memories. more later. but that's it for now. we are back in north kensington. the conversation has carried on while you were watching the news between survivors and medical health professionals, experts particularly in mental health because that's a huge thing that is coming through from the people that we talk to, continually, not just from the people that we talk to, continually, notjust when we are on air in north kensington, we are

contact with survivors and residents on an almost daily basis. joseph john is with us. he lived at g re nfell john is with us. he lived at grenfell for six months on the second floor with his feonsy and son. mahad is here, joseph's brother—in—law was staying over on the night of the father. let me introduce you to dr green. a psychologist has offered his services to those affected by the fire for free. we are joined by a child and adolescent psychiatrist and a gp. the conversation was calm and a gp. the conversation was calm and dignified, but there is a controlled anger because the people here are so frustrated that they are not getting access to what they need in order to help them cope with the trauma of surviving that fire. some of the things that you were saying to our guests here. what were you

saying? with these professionals that i have before us today, what i urge them to do is go and speak to the survivors where they are located. where they are comfortable. where their accommodation is from now. take pictures. see it for yourself and write a letter on their behalf, from your department and your profession which you cover so you're saying you cover child department and you care for the children that have survived from the tragedy of grenfell tower well what you can do is write to the secretary of state and for the minister of house to go say that these children who are survivors are keptin these children who are survivors are kept ina these children who are survivors are kept in a poor condition. at is that something you feel you can

do? absolutely. we worked with children for the last two and a half years in kensington and we knew of the children and families. is it surprising to you that there are four people here, if you're working on the ground, who have had no contact with anybody? the professionals a re contact with anybody? the professionals are not communicating themselves. this situation has been put upon, people from authority have not come forward. we as professionals, we want to help and are willing to help. we are here because we want to see what we can offer as support. we will meet

people like these families here, it isa people like these families here, it is a complete no—brainer. we are here to support these families. but before you can help, you get yourself together like a community, yourself together like a community, you delegate, you don'tjust say because you want to help, you are here. if you get yourselves together, you get the points, bullet points, you do this, you do this, then you will be able to reach us. doctorjohn green, are you shocked that five weeks on, there are four people here who have not been able to access the mental health support they need? how can people access the mental health is the most important question. we have been sending people out to the hotels. it is difficult because people are being moved. we have been knocking on doors in the local area. trying to reach people. we have got a single

point of entry on these things. we have information going out from gps. we have been going out looking for people, to make sure we can for them up. we are notjust going to sit there and hope they come to us because one of the problems from having trauma is that it stops people coming forward because they are quite anxious about it and quite worried about the situation. now is the time we begin to look. we have lost our dignity, we have lost our self—respect. 0ur self—esteem. we should be picked up. we need help. you should come forward, not us coming to you. but you have multiple needs as well. first, you need to come to people and make people happy and try to build up their lives from

the loss. it is getting worse. by placing traumatised people in a hotel, a hotel is meant for people on holiday who are the who have paid for and experience. we are also having arguments with the public, people that are on holiday, because we are not at an appropriate, suitable accommodation. you need to understand this. i'm sorry you don't understand this. i'm sorry you don't understand this. i'm sorry you don't understand this. but you need to. you cannot do anything for our mental health until we know that there is a safe, secure, appropriate accommodation roof over our children and elderly and sick people's heads. if you can have... i appreciate it

is not your responsibility to provide accommodation, but you can put pressure on the people whose job it is. is mahad egal right, if they have that, they can then begin to repair the mental health? this is a man—made disaster, not a natural one and with natural disasters, people acce pt and with natural disasters, people accept this was unavoidable. however, with a man—made disaster, the anger increases, the anxiety increases and i totally get this. but you can imagine from our point of view, we are all learning and understanding together. yes, with natural disasters, communities are torn apart, they are kept together and here, with this situation, a lot of communities have been scattered everywhere. it is our responsibility and the government and the council to come together and bring this

community together and that is what we are willing to do and what we have been doing. i am going to pause it and thank you all because we have some more people to talk to and they are councillors from the local council. thank you for your time and your patience. let me read some more comments. bear with me. tabernacle church was a hubfor bear with me. tabernacle church was a hub for the grenfell tower surviving victims from the outside. this is from councillor young and pasta derek deserves credit for his role. how can anyone cast aspersions on these people for wanting to be within the community that they had been living in four decades? seeing these people showing their love for one another is an excellent example of human beings. someone on twitter says, the let down is painful and

angering, to walk in the shoes must be indescribable. keep those coming in. we have been reporting that tonight, chelsea and kensington borough council meet for the first time since the show buyer. —— since the fire. from almost day one, the fire here has been very much a political story. with the prime minister and her government and the council heavily criticised for their lethargic response in the early days. criticised initially, theresa may, for not meeting residents. meanwhile jeremy corbyn and the labour party have been accused of using the grenfell disaster to score points. we will talk to some protesters and said the meeting. a couple of

worries that the meeting might be abandoned because of these planned protests. we asked for a meeting with the council leader elizabeth campbell but she said no. we also asked for an interview with the london mare, sadiq khan and that was ano london mare, sadiq khan and that was a no as well. we can speak to councillor atkinson, and tony devenish and chris williamson. mamadu rumayatu, karim elansari and josephjohn mamadu rumayatu, karim elansari and joseph john and mahad mamadu rumayatu, karim elansari and josephjohn and mahad egal also here. how likely is this meeting to go ahead? i hope it does go ahead. council leaders will put forward a

series of questions and we need to make sure they do go through. particularly around the housing issue. it has been dragged on and on. until we solve the housing problem, nobody is going to get security. what is your message to protesters planning to be outside the building this evening?” absolutely understand people's angen absolutely understand people's anger. residents have every right to be angry but the meeting must go ahead. not so much to reconfirm the tory leader because i think that's irrelevant. but i think they need to ask questions about the properties the labour group have identified as being immediately available so i wa nt to being immediately available so i want to make sure they appoint a new chief executive and the buck stops with him and we can then ask and demand answers. from your point of view, as a labour councillor, what is the top of your priority list in specific details terms?” is the top of your priority list in specific details terms? i want to

make rapid progress on permanent housing for people in the community. i'm also concerned that over the summer i'm also concerned that over the summer when parliament goes into recess, summer when parliament goes into recess , we summer when parliament goes into recess, we need to make sure people get the counselling they deserve. that has got nothing to do with parliament, though? no, you are asking what my priorities are. but whether parliament is in recess or not, those things can be sorted. yes, they need to be. you say rapid progress on the offer of accommodation appropriate to people who live here, good, decent sized accommodation in this borough, are you setting some deadline for the council? those properties are available. are you setting some deadline? i am hoping to get the chief executive by the night and by tomorrow i want him to give me a nswe rs tomorrow i want him to give me answers as to whether these properties are available and whether we will use them and if not, i want to know why. is that what you want

here? yes, because i know very well, i have lived in this borough for more than 45 years, south kensington, earls court, the assembly properties... there are so many properties that should be for emergencies but what is this is not an emergency? you need to be taken ca re of an emergency? you need to be taken care of and notjust an emergency? you need to be taken care of and not just at the expense of other people homeless in the borough which is why we need other properties. we can't keep people hanging around in hotels unless they wa nt to hanging around in hotels unless they want to stay. or being pushed the other burrows. some people have disabilities, women are pregnant, children, people still going through the trauma, everyday, from the fire. it is outrageous people are being left in one room. there is more pressure on the family and there is

more trauma. how much distrust would you say there is in your local council? i wouldn't really say they are distressed, i would say they are confused. distrust. idon't know, are distressed, i would say they are confused. distrust. i don't know, i think i ought to have trust for them but they have really let us down. continuously. i have personally lost faith in the politicians, the local authority and central government. i have lost trust in all of them. the words do not mean anything to me. i wa nt words do not mean anything to me. i want them held accountable for their words and make sure they lose their jobs and positions because what it is, unless you attack them where it hurts them, their salary, pension, and you disgrace them. you have to

name and shame them. it means as, survivors, for nearly five weeks, we have been documenting and following up have been documenting and following up and asking each other.“ have been documenting and following up and asking each other. if i am being asked one question, that is g re nfell tower, being asked one question, that is grenfell tower, it was such a fight by health and safety, for people to live there. who was that officer that signed it? his name is... inaudible he kept information from the council. we don't know that. that will be raised in the enquiry. he is not here to defend himself. he should be here, accountable. he was a health and safety advisor and they should answer to the survivors. i do not understand why our government is not understand why our government is not bringing these people the court or even being arrested for

suspicion. some people fled the country. it is not anger but frustration. we are not angry, we are frustrated. if we were angry, then you would have seen different actions from the community. but we are frustrated, disappointed. we have been let down continuously. you are letting down the children. in terms of the accountability, you will know there have been calls for effectively a snap election to scrap the councils of kensington and chelsea borough council, to have local elections to bring them forward one year to know. what you to that? that isn't going to happen. is it to that? that isn't going to happen. isita to that? that isn't going to happen. is it a good idea? i don't think it is because we are going to be spending more weeks organising an election and what we need to be doing is to be answering some of your questions like where the accommodation comes from, the mental health support coming from, the

labour councillors know the area and we are asking these questions. if we are not part of the equation, there will be a further delay while elections are organised. you need to put pressure on the government in power at the moment.” put pressure on the government in power at the moment. i am constantly asking questions, they are the same questions you are asking. i'm hoping we will get answers after the meeting tonight. we need someone in place duty—bound to answer those questions. let me bring in tony devenish, a local councillor and you represent this borough. well, i'm not sure that's correct. what is happening at the moment is over 200 public servants across government and local authorities, labour and conservative and the independent city of london local

government officers are working on this major crisis. things haven't been as fast in the early days and both the prime minister, the out going council leader and the new council leader have apologised for that. we need to speed up. but a lot is happening. we promised to give temporary housing accommodation to each of those people who needed it. that has been offered. the dialogue is still on going. but it's a major crisis and i'm not going to sit here and give excuses. it's a very complex process. i understand what the lady and gentleman here are saying and we are working as a team, across london, it's notjust the royal borough, elizabeth campbell is a very good public servant and only legally gets the job tonight, but she is committed to this area, a long—term resident and i'm sure things will get much better, yes, it was a slow start, but progress is being made. let me bring in chris williamson. where are we five weeks on? what do

you say? well, not for enough and what we are experiencing here is a legacy by goes back several decades of deregulation, privatisation and cuts. it can't be right that a combustible material was sanctioned to be put on a building, a tower block for insulation purposes and we need to get to the bottom of that. that's why we've called for a two—stage inquiry. we need to get to the bottom of how the fire started and why it spread so quickly? why weren't the residents concerns listened to? people were making the point that they were fearful, it has been well documented now about the building not being fit for purpose and not being safe and worries about fire, but we need to genuinely learn lessons, often after disaster, people talk about learning lessons, but we don't seem to learn those lessons and the lessons we need to learn is how was it possible that those sorts of political decision we re

those sorts of political decision were made going back those decades? so you are including previous labour governments? of course. this is this liberal approach to the way in which the economy is organised and it has been all about privatising services, profiteering, looking at cutting corners, we have seen profiteering, looking at cutting corners, we have seen public services externalised. the management of this council in the borough has been given over to a company. where we have continued with the system they had in place in 199 when local authorities used to provide public housing, 40% of the population lived in council housing, i'm convinced that we wouldn't have had this tragedy, but this is something that the inquiry does need to get to the bottom of and what changes do we need to make to make sure we don't find ourselves in this appalling situation again. do you have faith in the public inquiry? well, i think what we need to make

sure is that the public inquiry is fit for purpose. i would like to see a situation where there is a panel which is there to advice so we can make sure we get the right decision. we have got a more urgent pressing problem in relation to housing the survivors of grenfell tower right now. and i think, the borough has got plenty of reserves. it could acquire properties in the borough to make sure people are accommodated adequately. if emergency powers are needed for compulsory purchase powers for the local authority so that that can be done quickly then that that can be done quickly then that should be dealt with as well, but we can't have a situation. to buy up houses that people already live in? there are plenty of empty dwellings that could be utilised and if emergency powers are made. it can't be right that survivors are forced to live in bed and breakfast accommodation. people aren't getting an evening meal. this isjust appalling. people are being

accommodated in inadequate. some have been housed in accommodation that's due for demolition next year. this is appalling. it has got to be sorted out. we need urgent action right now to make sure that the survivors are cared for properly, but longer term we have got to learn those lessons to make sure that the political decisions that were allowed to be taken that led to this dreadful, appalling tragedy can never ever happen again. do you think as labour you are having any influence on this process? we are doing what we can and we are bringing as much pressure as we can using the parliamentary process and i think certainly the government have been found wanting, very badly wanting, and have recognised that they've fallen short and i think now there is a bit of a political consensus emerging that a different approach is needed. thank you very much. thank you very much for coming on the programme. chris williamson, that's labour's fire and emergency

services spokesman, tony devenish, a conservative member of the london assembly and robert atkinson, the labour leader on kensington and chelsea council. the meeting is due to go ahead tonight. we will talk to the protesters before the end of the programme. kat e—mailed to say, "i ama programme. kat e—mailed to say, "i am a local resident. ifeel programme. kat e—mailed to say, "i am a local resident. i feel strongly that this issue should not be diminish. thank you for giving the community a voice where they have been so let down by their council and kofl recommendives. " been so let down by their council and kofl recommendives." steve said, "the local housing department have the names and addcesses of i the "the local housing department have the n isies and addcesses of. the farthest. a re; t‘haf

labour leader handing his that's the labour leader handing his card. guys please don't go without leaving your business cards and point of contact as i will do as a follow up. just leave your contact details behind, please. thank you. now the news with joanna. details behind, please. thank you. now the news withjoanna. thank details behind, please. thank you. now the news with joanna. thank you very much. this programme has learned that the type of cladding using on grenfell tower would have released 14 times the amount of heat thatis released 14 times the amount of heat that is allowed under a key government safety test when burned. research conducted by the university of leeds suggests the energy emitted from the cladding and insulation would have been equivalent to burning 51 tonnes of pine wood. it added that the cladding's plastic co re added that the cladding's plastic core would have burned as quickly as petrol. the contractors who fitted the cladding say they passed all regulations. the bbc will publish details at 11am of how much it pays it's talent in

its annual report for the first time the salaries of those who earn more than £150,000 a year will be revealed. 0nly than £150,000 a year will be revealed. only a third of the names on the list are women. the supreme court has ruled that a man arrested, but never charged in connection with an investigation into sexual offences against children can be named. he had sought to stop reporting of his name and other matters relating to him at a public trial. an anonymity order protecting his identity has been lifted. a big clean—up operation is taking place in cornwall after flashfloods swept through the village of coverack. residents reported hailstones the size of 50 pence pieces. engineers will assess damage to roads and property in the area. it comes as storms across other parts of the south of england caused problems elsewhere. in kent flash flooding trapped people in their homes. that's a summary of the news. join me for bbc newsroom live

at 11am. the causes of the fire at grenfell tower will soon be investigated by a full public inquiry. the cladding. the stay—put policy. fire service cuts. all have been blamed in some way for the tragedy. but suspicion and distrust goes back much further than the events of that one night five weeks ago. for years a policy of regeneration in the borough has alienated many residents. council tenants in grenfell and other estates have long feared being kicked out to make way for wealthy private landlords. 0ur reporterjim reed has been investigating. it's only just about a week ago i was able to come back

here on this balcony. looking at it, you know, it'sjust like — it's a dystopia. it's unbelievable. nahid ashby lives on almost the very top floor of frinstead house in kensington. for more than 30 years she has lived here, a two bed flat she rents from the council. ijust couldn't believe it. this is not happening. this can't be happening. and then i broke down. oh, i broke down like a baby. i was crying like anything. the fire has shown outsiders just how close knit this community is. there is anger, too, about the tower, but also longer