hello, it's tuesday, i'm victoria derbyshire, welcome to the programme. our top story today... charlie gard's parents are spending their last precious moments with their terminally—ill son after ending their legal fight to take him to the us for treatment. the charlie, we say, mummy and daddy love you so much, we always have and we always will and we are so sorry we always will and we are so sorry we couldn't save you. charlie is expected to die within days. we will get reaction from some of those who have supported his parents. an nhs report into the use ofjoiner or mesh in england has been branded a whitewash —— vaginal. campaigners have been calling for the use of the mesh to be suspended.” have been calling for the use of the mesh to be suspended. i want the procedure and material banned. mesh to be suspended. i want the procedure and material bannedm mesh to be suspended. i want the procedure and material banned. it is a device of torture, please stop. it's a story we first exposed in april.

we'll bring you the details and hear from campaigners who are calling for changes. plus, in an exclusive interview, the parents of an autistic man pinned to the floor and to his bed for up to 11 hours by nine members of staff at a private hospital in birmingham tell us the treatment their son experienced means he now has post—traumatic stress disorder. their full story before 10. hello, welcome to the programme, we're live until 11 this morning. plenty of developing stories to keep across this morning — a little later, we'll tell you how the government is looking at banning leaseholds on new houses in england. it's after we revealed some of the practises ripping off homebuyers earlier this year. keen to hear your experiences on this. and a little later in the programme, we'll hear from formerjehovah‘s witnesses about their experience of leaving the religion and being

shunned by their friends and family. do get in touch on all the stories we're talking about this morning — use the hashtag #victorialive, and if you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate. charlie god's parents say they are preparing to spend their last precious moments with their son. they ended their legal battle to ta ke they ended their legal battle to take him to the us for treatment. in a statement, great ormond street hospital where charlie is on life support said they recognised the agony, desolation and bravery of their decision. caroline rigby reports. this photograph of charlie gard was released by his parents last night, just hours after they told the courts they now accepted their son should be allowed to die. their fight to send charlie to the us for experimental treatment is over. our son is an absolute warrior, and we could not be prouder of him, and we will miss him terribly. his body, heart and soul may soon be gone, but his spirit will live on for eternity, and he will make a difference to people's lives for years to come.

we will make sure of that. charlie has been in intensive care since october. he has a rare inherited condition — mitochondrial depletion syndrome. it means he cannot move, feed or breathe unaided. charlie's parents had wanted to send him for therapy in america, butjudges ruled he should be allowed to die after great ormond street hospital argued the treatment was futile. the case came back to court when this american neurologist, michio hirano, claimed new evidence that his treatment could help. but that doctor has now told them it's too late to treat charlie. a whole lot of time has been wasted. we are now injuly, and our poor boy has been left to just lie in hospitalfor months. great ormond street insist earlier treatment would not have saved him. the hospital have praised the courage of his parents, saying the agony, desolation and bravery of their decision has humbled all who work there. his parents will now spend charlie's last few days by his side. caroline rigby, bbc news.

let us talk to lisa. when is charlie garde likely to come off his ventilator? the parents want to spend as much time as they can with charlie, who they are calling their warrior. it will probably be a few days. it is unlikely to ventilator will be taken straightaway, but nobody knows, they want to spend time with him and the hospital will know the procedure, to get them used to the idea it will happen. we have heard in the past they wanted to ta ke heard in the past they wanted to take him home and the hospital said it was not possible. may try to get that to happen again. but they have now realised that it is the end for charlie and we will probably find out in the next week or so that the

ventilator has been switched off. great ormond street hospital have made comments about the us doctor, the american neurologist, who offered some hope to charlie. yes, great ormond street hospital gave state m e nts great ormond street hospital gave statements last night. they wanted to say it in court, but it did not happen. they accused him of giving the parents false hope, they say michio hirano gave evidence at the initial court hearing, i was there, it took three days, and he was giving evidence by skype saying he could help. but he did not examine charlie and the last week. he had not looked at the brain scans, the contemporaneous medical notes and he had not read the judge's statement and he had not looked at the second opinions from other world—renowned experts that great ormond street

hospital had gone to and they had examined charlie. they say they are concerned to hear that the professor stated in the witness box he retains financial interest in some of the treatment compounds he proposed to give charlie. on july treatment compounds he proposed to give charlie. onjuly the 13th, when we had an mri scan, the parents realised the scans showed charlie really was beyond help at that point. the hospital says it gave no cause for optimism, it confirms that while the treatment way —— the treatment may assist others in the future, it cannot assist charlie. the hospital are saying, we do not know, about time. the american doctor is saying that had charlie been able to have the experimental therapy never tested on humans, he may have got better. but he was never going to survive, but he may have improved. but i think the

hospital is saying, we will never know that. that not clear. they say there is hope that those like the professor who have provided opinions that have so sustained charlie's pa rents, that have so sustained charlie's parents, their hopes, and thus, this protracted litigation with its many consequences, will also find much upon which to reflect. i must say, before i finished, we have not had a response yet from michio hirano. ben brown is in the bbc newsroom with a summary of the rest of the day's news. builders could be banned from selling new houses as leasehold properties in england under proposals put forward by the government today. it comes after it emerged some housing developers have been selling the leasehold on to investment firms without always telling homeowners, leading the extra costs or rising charges. an official report into the use of joiner —— vaginal mesh for organ

prolapse. it has been screwed the tee described as a whitewash. the report by nhs england has called for better reporting of problems and increased knowledge sharing, but it has not recommended discontinuing use of the mesh. -- it —— it has been described as a whitewash. the government says there has been a big rise in the number of people falling victim to scams in recruitment. some have demanded people use premium rate phone lines. thejoint have demanded people use premium rate phone lines. the joint industry and law enforcement organisation reports that in the last two years, there has been a 300% rise in recruitment related fraud and misconduct. uk animal worthwhile standards could be threatened if farmers have to compete against cheaper, less regulated rivals from outside the eu after brexit. —— uk animal welfare standards. that's the warning from a house of lords committee.

it's urging the government to insist on similar standards in any free trade agreements to avoid what it calls a race to the bottom on welfare. a young man with autism has been played around £45, 000 a young man with autism has been played around £45,000 in damages by a private hospital and the police after the way they treated him. he was pinned to the floor and to his bed for ii was pinned to the floor and to his bed for 11 hours by nine members of staff at a private hospital in birmingham. he was sometimes so heavily medicated that he could hardly speak or stand. a local authority investigation found there had been serious and multiple failings in his care. justin bieber says he is cancelling the rest of his world tour "due to unforeseen circumstances". he's been touring for the past 18 months, playing more than 150 shows. the final 15 performances were scheduled to be in north america and asia. that's a summary of the latest bbc news — more at 9.30. thank you very much. we will bring

you the sport in just a moment. if you the sport in just a moment. if you are getting in touch, you are very welcome. rugby football league union have made a controversial decision concerning the women's game. yes, they have. they have taken a decision which has raised a lot of eyebrows. england will defend the world cup title later next month, but many of the squad will be left without contracts because the rfu wants to switch attention from 15 aside the seventh with the commonwealth games next year. that has led one mp to call it a kick in the teeth that highlights the massive inequality in britain. we know on the mend's side, england players are well rewarded in both 15s and sevens. but rfu is the first union to award full or part—time contracts, lots of criticism, especially the record revenues of more than £400 million last year, the rfu claim that change reflects the rfu claim that change reflects the cyclical nature of women's by, the cyclical nature of women's rugby, but does the money go far enough? those who are involved in

15s at the moment, at the elite end, they will potentially have to look for further employment, so that is where frustrations are coming. what is positive is there is funding and support but it is not enough and going forward there needs to be further investment, not just going forward there needs to be further investment, notjust in by, further investment, notjust in rugby, but other sports, as we have seen rugby, but other sports, as we have seen with england cricket. the changes are likely to make a difference. england won the six nations seven years before they focused on seventh ahead of rio, that meant they went four years without winning it. since the money has been aimed at 15th, england won the six nations this year. it seems to have a direct effect. another great day for swimmers in the world championship saint budapest. the world aquatics championships, they have given great britain fans much to cheer over the weekend. we know all about adam peaty‘s qualities in the 100 metres breast row, olympic champion of course. he successfully

defended his world title in budapest, narrowly missing out on breaking his own world record. i can tell you he has done even better this morning, broken the world record in the heats of the 50 metres breaststroke, as he began the defence of his world title. fantastic moment for another swimmer. he called his gold medal dream come true. he qualified fourth fastest. he managed to tape a victory by just four fastest. he managed to tape a victory byjust four hundredths of a second. hopefully more british success with several swimmers in action in finals later on. which former formula 1 driver is making a comeback? he is hoping for a comeback, it would be a fantastic story. six, seven years ago, he was regarded as one of the best driving talents in formula 1, many predicted he would be a future world champion, i was he would be a future world champion, iwasa he would be a future world champion, i was a big fan. 2011, it all changed, life changing injuries in a rally driving accident. despite

intensive treatment, he only regained limited movement of his arm and he has not been in a formula 1 race since, but that could change. he will drive for renault this year ina he will drive for renault this year in a test in hungary next week. his former team have described it as a new phase. it would be a fairy tale return for someone new phase. it would be a fairy tale return for someone whose career ended so abruptly. he is said to be confident he can perform with the new car on the tracks. we could see him coming back to formula 1 very soon. him coming back to formula 1 very soon. it would be an amazing comeback. thank you very much. this e—mailfrom a comeback. thank you very much. this e—mail from a formerjehovah‘s witness, we will be talking to three people who used to be part of the religion and when they left, they we re religion and when they left, they were effectively shunned by family and friends. i am so pleased that the practice of this fellowship is being aired on your programme because the full extent of the shining needs to be exposed. i'm 60, i have just left. i

shining needs to be exposed. i'm 60, i havejust left. i have left gradually. i followed advice from former x friends who have managed to do the same. many of my friends have distanced themselves and i have lost the entirety of my deceased husband's family. i'm going to meetings. when someone does it, they are completely shunned. you do not have to wait, if a view is expressed thatis have to wait, if a view is expressed that is not party line, people start distancing themselves. you are viewed as a bad associate. the controller is unbelievable. the practice has become too much part of the culture that members do not realise what they are doing. this sort of radicalisation. the scriptures are twisted. i could go on but i have to go to work! we will hear from three on but i have to go to work! we will hearfrom three former on but i have to go to work! we will hear from three formerjehovah‘s witnesses after 10am this morning. next this morning, a report into the use of vaginal mesh implants out this morning, has been described as a "whitewash", a "waste of time" and not worth the paper it's written on. mesh implants are designed

to help deal with bladder incontinence and pelvic organ prolapse, often resulting from childbirth. in some cases the mesh erodes or cuts through the vagina. earlier this year we exclusively revealed that up to 800 women are taking legal action against the nhs and manufacturers of mesh after the simple procedure left them with devastating problems — some are now registered disabled, can't walk unaided, are wholly incontinent, unable to have sex, unable to work and in constant pain. over the last five years, i've had over 53 admissions. because you're in pain. because of pain. my husband has turned into my career and he is so has turned into my career and he is so less of my husband. we can't have sex. wet haven't had sex for four—and—a—half years. sex. wet haven't had sex for four-and-a-half years. it is a divisive torture, please stop. four-and-a-half years. it is a divisive torture, please stoplj wa nt divisive torture, please stoplj want the procedure banned. i want

the material banned. it has totally changed my life. i'm registered disabled and i have no control over my bowel or my bladder. disabled and i have no control over my bowel or my bladderlj disabled and i have no control over my bowel or my bladder. i have nerve damage. i'm double incontinent. that's bowel and bladder. i have got depression and never thought having a40 depression and never thought having a 40 minutes procedure twice would be this devastating. ijust didn't. since our story in april we have consistently requested interviews with the nhs, department of health, and regulatory body the mhra and they have consistently said no. this morning, nhs england have released a long awaited report into vaginal meshes. they've turned down our request for an interview. that report recommends improving patient—doctor consultation before surgery, getting women to specialist units if they experience poor outcomes

and improving the recording of surgery that goes wrong by surgeons. mesh safety campaigners say it's a whitewash because it didn't look at whether mesh implants are safe to be used in the first place. one campaigner says, "they might as well park an ambulance at the bottom of a cliff and wait for women to fall in. they should have looked at product safety, not at ways to fix women once things have gone wrong." despite this report coming from nhs england, the report's author, professor keith willett turned down our request to join us this morning. let's get reaction to it from from tracy porton and julie gilsenan who have both suffered severe complications and realised they weren't alone after watching coverage of the issue on this programme. dr sohier elneil, a consultant urogynecologist who removes mesh from women. i'm going to ask you tracey for your

reaction to the nhs england report? they're nice. they're very nice that they want to deal with this, but why aren't they looking at the product? they need to look at the product. my view of the mesh is that it's dangerous. every single story i've read and my own story isn't about the surgery. the surgeon, the treatment, the after care or the information. it's about the product. the product has caused injury and it has been injuring people for more than ten years. it's known. we will come back to your story in a moment. let me get reaction from julie. hi, julie, what are your thoughts on the recommendations from this report today? well, again, like tracey said there has been no looking into the safety of the mesh. no product investigation and they are making recommendations about surgeons reporting, but less than 40% of

surgeons report problems regarding the mesh. as someone who spends a lot of time trying to remove mesh implants from women, how do you react to this report? i don't think it's gone far enough. i think it sort of touched a little bit on the surface. it has not touched on the very start of this whole process. i mean the whole point of meshes was to really the goal was to try and prevent recurrence of prolapse or incontinentance. it hasn't achieved that and many women have got problems with it, but also, there is so problems with it, but also, there is so many aspects of it, not just problems with it, but also, there is so many aspects of it, notjust in prolapse and incontinence, but in other arenas prolapse and incontinence, but in otherarenas in prolapse and incontinence, but in other arenas in hernia, dental and so on. other arenas in hernia, dental and so on. the report is has glimpsed over some areas. it is true we are lacking data. we are lacking information, but you know, it hasn't really gone far enough and i think the integration of the women in the

report fully particularly the women who have suffered with these problems isn't taken into account and that needs to be taken into account. but know that, for most women, this procedure works and the regulatory body has told us in common with other med device regulators, we are not aware of a robust body of evidence which would lead to the conclusion these devices are unsafe, if used as intended? that's true, but equally the quoted problem or risk is supposed to be between one and 2%. we know it exceeds that. and conservative measures, consider it to be 15% and there are others who think it's even higher than that. yes, collecting data will be helpful to give us the real picture, but in the end it is still a prosthetic material that is

being inserted into organs or tissues which are supposed to have some degree of mobility and this product doesn't do that. it doesn't allow mobility, although some people might argue that we are trying to stop mobility altogether because that's the cause of the problem, but equally, there are other measures you can use and there are other surgical operations you can use and that needs to be considered. so, as is surgeon you have a number of techniques and you need to be able to offer those option to say every woman and actually explain the pros and cons. nhs england say the report was never commissioned to look at mesh as a product and whether it should be banned. it was only to find better practise. tracey, you contacted us. you had no idea that there were other women who were suffering in the way you were, did you? no, suffering in the way you were, did you? no, i had six lots of surgery. the last surgery was major surgery.

so i've had three different surgeons operate on me, not once have i ever been told of complications. or warned. so when you saw our coverage how did you react? i cried more about two hours. my son told me it was going to be on. and i watched it. and i cried and cried and cried. and then i read horrific tories, horrific stories. i'm lucky. i'm in pain. i'm sat here in pain. every day i'm in pain. i have mesh still attached to my spine, but there is women that can't walk. there is women that can't walk. there is women that can't walk. there is women that had their bowels removed and their pladers removed because the mesh, the product has damaged them. that's what happened to me. the product and part of the product is still in me. because they could only do a partial removal. once it's in you, your tissue grows around it. it shrinks and tears. i had two

holes torn in my vagina, separate operations to repair those. the last surgery saved my life because the mesh started cutting into the wall of my bowel. so i had a bowel surgeon on stand—by in case and actually they did find it was cutting through the wall of my bowel, if i hadn't gone back to hospital, i could have died like a lot of women and a lot of women still don't know. i spoke to the taxi driver on the way here. his mother had mesh. and she is in agony and what a small world. i could have had any taxi driver and he went, "oh my god, that's what my mum is going through." ." how do you react and the evidence shows this that for most women it works?” the evidence shows this that for most women it works? i do not believe it. i am one person and i found out in april from your show how many women didn't watch your show? how many women haven't seen it in the media? how many women had

this procedure? the increase on the sling the mesh facebook site, the increase in membership just sling the mesh facebook site, the increase in membershipjust doubled overnight. and it will continue and there will be more and more cases coming forward. more and more women injured. this is an e-mail from jill. she was one of the representatives with the working group that are behind the report out today from nhs england. jill says, "i was one of several mesh injured patient representatives with the working group. we called for suspension of mesh three years ago and fora suspension of mesh three years ago and for a thorough investigation of the mesh material and the blind way in which it is implanted. all this fell on deaf ears and was ignored. why? why won't they look at the product itself? it is scandalous. i and other patient reps resigned in disgust." i'm not sure if that's the scotla nd disgust." i'm not sure if that's the scotland working group or the group behind the nhs england report, it

might be the scotland one. julie tell our audience what happened to you? i had a mesh implant in february this year. i was told it was going to be a simple fix operation for a mild stress incontinence. i was told i would just be a day case in and out and i was back to work within six weeks. asa was back to work within six weeks. as a result of this surgery, my bladder was perforated during surgery. i have to self katherise. i have not nerve damage down my leg and my surgeon is still saying this could be down to bruising through the surgery. this is down to product safety. your bladder was perforated during the procedure by the person who was implanting the mesh, not the mesh itself, is that correct? yes. it was actually the trainee, there

was a certainlyingon's trainee who first did my surgery and he perforated my bladder with the hooks. and the hooks are used to bring the mesh into place. that is not the mesh product's fault then, is it, would you agree? no, that's not the mesh product's fault. that was down to my surgeon allowing a trainee possibly to perform my surgery, but now that's resolved. i have still got all these issues with this mesh and the mesh is causing these problems and i'm100% certain it is mesh and it is down to product safety and we need to get this stopped, to stop anymore women suffering like i am, like trace crisis is, like the thousands of women in our group are suffering. doctor, your experience of being involved in the group. so, i was, doctor, your experience of being involved in the group. so, iwas, it was really at the patients insistence that they asked me to

sit—in on the nhs england group which i was very happy to do. i sat on the nice procedures advisory committee. sol on the nice procedures advisory committee. so i came in with that hat as well and we were happy to participate, but i hadn't been in touch with the group or haven't been pa rt of touch with the group or haven't been part of the group, i think, for at least 18 months because i haven't received any contact from them and i think you are aware that some of the, in fact most of the patients on that group were in a similar position. so, we haven't really been pa rt of position. so, we haven't really been part of the report at the end. we we re part of the report at the end. we were not part of the discussion before its release. and there are, i mean, as you've just heard from the other two ladies, there are a lot of aspects, notjust other two ladies, there are a lot of aspects, not just about the safety concerns aspects, not just about the safety concerns of the product, but also it is other impacts that is not always dumbed such as the ought owe immune

toxicity and so on. there are a lot of issues with this product, not only with the way it is inserted and put in, but what happens to the product once it is in the body long—term. and certainly some of the women i looked after had those problems. this message from lisa on facebook, "a 20 minute operation referred to as the gold standard in procedures that is causing debilitating consequences. i have had two mesh implants. tvt and hernia. the hernia has given me consistent pain for 12 years. i have been advised to have a full hysterectomy as the pain would then be cured. it wasn't. i then had incontinence. at no point was it called mesh. now, i have two lots of this barbaric stuff inside me causing me pain. stop using it." says lisa. what do you want to happen now, tracey?” says lisa. what do you want to happen now, tracey? i want the product investigated further. i am

aware that it's product investigated further. i am aware that its global. i know that. when i went to america a few months ago, there were adverts by law firms saying have you been injured by mesh? this problem is global. in the uk, they need to stop using the mesh. they need to stop straightaway and look at alternative methods and offer further investigation. just, they are doing this procedure on a basis. i was told i mightn't have had prolapse. ten years ago, the surgery may never needed to have happened. i could have had physiotherapy to help with my minor prolapse. the only other thing i'd like to say is an analogy and kath andi like to say is an analogy and kath and i were talking last night. i said if you have a car with an

electrical fire, the car manufacturer will remove the product or recall the product. the pharmaceutical companies that make this product have known for over ten yea rs this product have known for over ten years that it causes complications and they haven't removed the product. thank you all very much for coming on the programme. your views are of course welcome and your own experiences. still to come... in an exclusive interview, the parents of an autistic man who was restrained by as many as nine members of staff for 11 hours at a private hospital in birmingham tell us their son has been left traumatised. they want an apology from the hospital. their full story before 10. notjust a victory in cricket, but a momentous moment for the sport. that's the verdict of some of england's women's cricket team who won the world cup on sunday. we talk to two of the team shortly. now a summary of today's news. the parents of charlie gard say they

are preparing to spend their last precious moments with their terminally ill son after deciding to end their legal battle to take the us. great ormond street hospital said they recognised the agony, desolation and bravery of the decision. they added, they would be giving careful thought to what could be learnt from the case. builders could be banned from selling new houses as leasehold properties in england — under proposals put forward by the government today. it comes after it emerged some housing developers have been selling the leasehold on to investment firms — without always telling homeowners, leading to extra costs or rising charges for them. an official report into the use of vaginal mesh implants to treat incontinence and organ prolapse has been described as a whitewash by campaigners. earlier this year, this programme revealed that hundreds of women are living with chronic pain and complications after

undergoing surgery. the report by nhs england has called for better reporting of problems and increased knowledge sharing, but has not recommended discontinuing use of the mesh. the government says there's been a big rise in the number of people falling victim to scams linked to job recruitment. some fake recruiters ask for cash for non—existent security checks, while others demand that people use premium rate phone lines. latest figures suggest that in the last two years there has been a 300% rise in recruitment related fraud and misconduct. that's a summary of the latest bbc news — more at 10.00. thank you. and thank you for your e—mails, people who used to be jehovah's witnesses. however, i left two and a half years ago. as a result, my brother, mother, my own

daughter, they shun me. it is the cruellest practice. i am glad it is being exposed. i had to have counselling to try to come to terms with losing my family. this e—mail from someone who does not wish to leave their name, a formerjehovah's witness, i have no issue whatsoever, they have never shunned me. you get disfellowship by doing suddenly against the religion. it is ridiculous how people are making a bad name for them. jackie says, my mother was a jehovah witness. it caused havoc, no christmas, no easter. my father was a normal pa rent easter. my father was a normal parent who intuit my mother's horrendous ways. myself and my two

brothers find it very difficult at christmas and on our birthdays. it isa christmas and on our birthdays. it is a horrible so—called religion. we will talk to three formerjehovah witnesses about being shunned after ten. now the sport. good morning again. it was a great evening in the pool on day two of the world aquatics championships for great britain who won two golds. olympic champion adam peaty successfully defended his world 100m breaststroke title in a new championship record. he finished over a second ahead of his nearest rival. gb's second gold was a bit more of a surprise but no less deserved as ben proud took the 50m butterfly title. he's already the commonwealth champion over this distance, but his best event, the 50m freestyle, is yet to come. he competes in that at the end of the week. the rugby football union has been criticised after deciding not to renew contracts for the england women's 15—aside team. the six nations champions defend their world title in ireland next month,

but the rfu has said after the tournament, the focus will be shifted to the sevens squad ahead of next yea r‘s commonwealth games. and manchester city have broken the world transfer record for a defender by signing monaco full back benjamin mendy for £52 million. the france international has signed a five—year deal. we will be back with more sportjust after 10am. thank you. a young man with autism has been paid around 45 thousand pounds in damages by a private hospital and the police after the way they treated him while in their care led to him suffering post—traumatic stress disorder. as a teenager, adam nasralla — who's now 23 — was pinned to the floor and to his bed for 11 hours by nine members of staff at wast hills, a private hospital in birmingham that specialises in the condition. he was sometimes so heavily medicated that he could hardly speak or stand. after being arrested for assaulting staff, he was handcuffed, restrained by a belt and forced to wear a spit hood whilst

in a police cell overnight. adam nasralla's family fought forjustice and an investigation by the local authority found there had been serious multiple failings. he's now living independently as he rebuilds his life but his family are speaking to us exclusively in their first tv interview. i started by asking jill and lawrence, adam's mum and dad, by asking them to explain how their son was treated — firstly, at an nhs facility near their home, and later, at a private hospital. my my son had never been restrained in his life. he was introduced to restraint and seclusion. it was a facility that did not specialise in autism. they used restrictive practices which he objected to. the more they restricted him, the more

he reacted, the more he challenged them, they're more they restricted, a cycle. he went there for 28 days, and was there for 15 months. when you talk about restraint, what do you talk about restraint, what do you mean? basically, having a boy like my son, six foot four, pinned to the floor by nine, ten people. and that could last not minutes, the day he was arrested, that lasted, if i recall correctly, 11 hours. and that was actually at a different hospital, a private hospital in birmingham. 100 miles away. where you transferred your son because that was a place that specialised in looking after autistic people. that is right. it was our belief, a naive belief, but it was our belief that, for example, his medication would be reduced in the private hospital

because they had the specialism, alternative therapies to use. we have since found out that after he left the hospital, actually, the anti—psychotics medication had been tripled, it has the nickname of the chemical straitjacket. it has horrific side—effects that are long—lasting. for instance, it severely affected his speech. he has to go like this when he eats now and he drags his leg behind him when he walks. what do you think about the fa ct walks. what do you think about the fact they tripled the medication for your son? i was horrified. i only found out afterwards, i was not consulted, it is something i felt very strongly about because of the negative impact. i could see the negative impact. i could see the negative impact, i could see his speech dramatically deteriorate. when someone with autism has already a communication disorder, for them not to be able to speak. my son had wonderful handwriting, like a fine

writer, he lost his ability to use his fine motor skills. his communication was hindered, not helped. you referred to the day your son was arrested, this is when things dramatically escalated. before his arrest, what happened with his autistic diagnosis? they removed it. what does that mean? the psychiatrist in this sort facility —— this facility said he was not autistic. on that basis —— on what basis, we do not know. we think the reason was so he could be arrested by the police and then he would be responsible for his actions. the serious case review found that finding, referred the psychiatrist to the gmc... finding, referred the psychiatrist

to the gmc. .. the general medical council. we thought we would be consulted by the gmc, give our thoughts, but we found three, four months later, that doctor had no case to answer. bearing in mind that doctor had removed somebody asked's diagnosis. i want to bring in your lawyer at this point. from a legal perspective, give me your view on the psychiatrist removing someone's diagnosis and later on the same day them being arrested by the police. the first thing to say, i am not a doctor, but i do think it is at best questionable the decision to remove a long—standing diagnosis of autism and it seems to me that is something that should be done very carefully and through careful consultation, perhaps with the family. so, i think it gives rise to very serious

concerns it gives rise to very serious concerns and adam's arrest was absolutely horrific experience and one that anybody would find extremely upsetting, let alone a man with so many complex needs that in fa ct with so many complex needs that in fact could be met and have been met since his discharge from hospital. but the decision to arrest him in the circumstances was extraordinary. i want to ask you about the arrest. if our audience a little insight into what happened that day. we have since found out he was handcuffed, spit hooded, placed in a restraint belt, both around his legs and around his middle, was that right, nancy? he was obviously taken in the police van alone. for us, as his parents, to think he was in a police cell, miles from our family home and we could do nothing about it, it was

horrific. we tried our best, made numerous phone calls... we are showing our audience a demonstration ofa showing our audience a demonstration of a spit hooded being put on somebody, it is not adam, just so the audience understand. he also was physically restrained by the police. it must have been absolutely... we cannot even begin to imagine how terrifying it was for him. we were completely helpless. nothing we could do. in fairness to the police, they quickly assessed that adam should not be detained, but because his diagnosis had been removed, both of learning difficulties and of autism, they struggled to find an alternative placement, so he ended up alternative placement, so he ended up in the police cell for eight hours before being returned back to wa st hours before being returned back to wast hills hospital. i want to go back to the restraint that you referred to earlier, up to nine people, holding your son down on the

floor for people, holding your son down on the floorfor up to 11 people, holding your son down on the floor for up to 11 hours on one occasion. can you describe what that would look like? i couldn't even think about it, victoria. i couldn't, honestly, bring myself to think in this 6—foot four lad, a big lad, to be held for that length of time or anybody... even though at some points his behaviour had been challenging towards staff? our argument is, he never needed restraining in 18 years before he we nt restraining in 18 years before he went into mental health institutions. since he has left that particular provision, he has not needed restraint in three and a half years. why was it necessary then? what is your theory? my theory was

he was not treated properly, they had no understanding of his autism and no understanding of how to manage the behaviour. which is astonishing because wast hills hospital is a specialist autistic facility. so they call themselves. so they say. your son has since been diagnosed with post—traumatic stress disorder as a result of some of the treatment he received. yes, he has. we we re very treatment he received. yes, he has. we were very fortunate in that we had employed an independent social worker who was monitoring the placement at wast hills hospital. incidentally, he was banned after visiting adam every two weeks for six months when he raised concerns with the local authorities about lengthy floor restraint and he actually sourced this new placement, recovery first, and he arrived by secure ambulance without his comfort items. he loves thomas the tank

engine and nursery rhymes, they make him feel safe. he arrived there without those items which for somebody with autism is a horrific experience. he was taken on to the ward by up to seven security staff wearing a spit hooded and the ward staff on that day wept that a fellow human being would be treated in such a way. but within three weeks of him being there, his medication had been reduced by two thirds. he was starting to flourish again. there was no special formula, theyjust understood autism, understood the trauma, worked with the family, and occasionally, they were humble enough to ask themselves, how must it feel for him? and things got better. we had a wonderful psychiatrist who reinstated his diagnosis placing him on the severe end of the spectrum, no at all. and

gradually, things got better. he started to be out and about. community access. swimming in the sea. going to the airport. all of the things he loves, his special interests were indulged. it can be done? it can be done. we had lots of home leave and gradually things got better. there was a serious case review. that yes. that recognised there were a number of failings across a number of agencies. you have received around £45,000 in damages which is paid now to people to look after adam. do you want an apology? that's the thing that i most definitely want. the hospital's position has been from the beginning to defend the indefendable and remains that to this day. if i had of had an apology from the beginning i wouldn't have

fought for the serious case review. it's the injustice that you can't live with. how can we, we are always told lessons have been learnt. how can we accept that lessons have been learnt when there is no acknowledgement that they have happened in the first place?” acknowledgement that they have happened in the first place? i have got a statement from west mercia police. "west mercia police has made a full and final settlement in relation to an incident that took place on 3rd march 2014 at kidderminster police station. every day our officers and staff have to make quick time decisions in difficult and challenging circumstances in order to protect our communities from harm. wast hills hospital says: west hills hospital says: "the health of welfare of both the people we support and our staff is always our number one priority. we co—operated in an open and transparent way with the serious case review and all its recommendations have been acted on. this was acknowledged by the care quality commission in its latest inspection report which gave the hospital an "outstanding" rating we are very

proud of and is a true reflection of the hard work, commitment and quality of our staff and management." you can read more about the tory on the bbc news site on the bbc website right now. charlie gard's parents are spending the final few days with their son. lawyers say the couple want to spend the maximum amount of time they have left with charlie. yesterday he thenneded the case after a us doctor told them it was too late to treat charlie's rare genetic condition. all we wanted to do with take charlie from one really renowned hospital to another well renowned in the attempt to save his life and to be treated by the world leader in mitochondrial disease. we have to

live with the what ifs which will haunt us for the rest of our lives. despite the way our beautiful son has been spoken about sometimes as if he is not worthy of the chance of livment our son is a warrior and we will miss him terribly. his body and heart and soul may soon be gone, but his spirit will live on for eternity and he will make a difference to people's lives for years to come, we will make sure of that. we will spend our last precious moments with our son charlie who unfortunately won't make his first birthday in just under two weeks' time. to charlie, mummy and daddy love you so much. we always have and we always will and we are so sorry that we

couldn't save you. sweet dreams, baby. sleep tight, our beautiful little boy, we love you. great ormond street hospital haven't said when his life support will end. he is not expected to reach his first birthday on 1st august. his parents have battled for months and have had donald trump and the pope intervene. we have spoken to charlie gard's pa rents several we have spoken to charlie gard's parents several times on the programme. we want to do this for charlie, obviously. he always has been and always will be our number one priority. if anyone in the future is born with this disease we wa nt future is born with this disease we want something that can help this. we wa nt want something that can help this. we want to find a treatment and a cu re we want to find a treatment and a cure for mitochondrial disease. we wa nt cure for mitochondrial disease. we want parents taken into the side room and said we have got something

for you. we don't want the devastating news of, "there is nothing wk do." let's talk to catherine glenn foster. she's director of american's united for life who have campaigned for charlie to have experimental treatment. she has been in touch with connie and chris since they decided to end their legal battle. also professor rob george, medical director at st christopher's hospice in south london and a professor of palliative care at king's college london. and emma nottingham, a lecturer in child law at the university of winchester and a member of the institute of medical ethics‘ research committee. welcome all of you. catherine, what have the parents said to you? what have the parents said to you? what have you said to the parents? well, as you can imagine they are just devastated at the loss of their son. they have been given information that had he received treatment several months ago then he might have had a chance, but that in these

intervening months his muscle tissue has got to the point where this cutting edge treatment can do no good. it would be ineffective apparently. and so, and so we do know that they're doing everything they can for their son. spending the last precious moments with them, but they're heartbroken.” last precious moments with them, but they're heartbroken. i wonder emma and professor rob george what your view is of the parents‘ belief that had things been done a little earlier then this experimental treatment may have had some impact on charlie? well, i think that from my point of view my impression is that emma and, that charlie's parents believe that somehow he could have been restored to full health and it seems to me that the

evidence is that whatever treatment is available would have had a marginal benefit and i think that is extremely distressing for them to have to face the prospect there is no treatment available, but us on the on the other hand, from medicine's point of view, trying to balance the inevitable con qens of treatments that may not work, with the marginal benefits that they may offer. emma nottingham? it's very difficult in these types of cases because you've got to weigh up the benefits against the burdens on the child so, it's going to go to be very difficult for parents to come to terms with the fact that there might have been some marginal benefit and that would have been worth pursuing, but in these types of cases you have to weigh that up against the burdens and if it's going to be a very heavy burden on the child then it is less likely

that's going to be allowed to happen. catherine, how do you react to what we heard in the supreme court yesterday? evidence from the great ormond street hospital that the american doctor had a financial interest and was effectively offering the parents false hope in a damning statement, but diplomatically worded. the hospital said that the doctor who provided the opinions that have sustained charlie's hopes, and this protracted litigation will find much upon which to reflect? it was not only the doctor, but a team of specialists who advocated for the cutting edge treatment. none of whom had examined charlie or looked at scans or his medical notes despite an invitation backin medical notes despite an invitation back in january from great medical notes despite an invitation back injanuary from great ormond street hospital? well, connie and chris did request the transfer. they didn't want to pursue the treatment there. they wanted charlie to be transferred to new york and in the

meantime the doctor has personally examined charlie, has examined his full medical records and this treatment is an oral treatment that would have been given through milk, it's medically shown that there would be no significant side—effects or risk of causing pain or suffering with this treatment. it is a three month regiment in the course of these court actions could have been completed more than twice over. professor rob george, how do you react to that? well, i think, my principle concern is what emma was raising and that is the relative burdens and benefits of treatments. as farasi burdens and benefits of treatments. as far as i understand it and i don't have the technical details, is that were there any chance of benefit to be accrued from a treatment such as this, there is no doubt in my mind that it would have been offered by great ormond street and every step would have been taken to make that possible. but it is very clear, it seems to me, that the

likelihood of any benefit, it was so marginaland likelihood of any benefit, it was so marginal and the burden on charlie of continuing to be supported in the way that he has, and the potential harms that come from the treatments, made that something that was not really defenceable from medicine's point of view and we have to remember that those of us in medicine have a duty to our patients not to cause harm and that's our over arching priority. now, various people would say, "aye, yes, but the harm is that he never got the treatment." but where this treatment feasible and viable, it would have been offered to him. it would have been offered to him. it would have been given to him by great ormond street, of that, i have no doubt. emma, afinal street, of that, i have no doubt. emma, a final thought from you. great ormond street say they will reflect on the words of the judge where he expressed that were his view heeded mediation would be compulsionry. so to avoid future

court battles, pa rents compulsionry. so to avoid future court battles, parents and hospitals in any similardispute court battles, parents and hospitals in any similar dispute in the future should not end up in court? yes, this case has given us an opportunity to now reflect on how these types of cases are dealt with and whether it's possible that we can do better or improve the process for all involved. so, can do better or improve the process forall involved. so, one can do better or improve the process for all involved. so, one idea is that that this is done through mediation to try and have more communication and improve maybe some of the things that didn't go well in the charlie gard case. it's difficult to know whether that will be beneficial because ultimately we are going to sometimes have these cases where the parents and the doctors just can't decide and i think with charlie gard's parents and great ormond street hospital, evenif and great ormond street hospital, even if they had mediated and debated this extensively, it was

very clear that they weren't going to reach an agreement. so, if we have some kind of mediation process, we might still inevitably need the courts because if cases do get that tough then we still need a judge to make that final decision where we can't make an agreement. thank you all. thank you very much for coming on the programme. thank you. the latest news and sport shortly. before that, the weather and here is carol. good morning. temperatures picking up good morning. temperatures picking up nicely in the sunshine and we certainly do have sunshine. this lovely picture sent in by one of our weather watchers earlier of the isle of wight. but we also started on a grey note across the east again. an earlier picture from twickenham. the cloud in the east is starting to break. you can see in the satellite picture where we have got the cloud. where the holes are and also where we have got the sunshine. temperatures already 19 celsius

across parts of wales, south—west england, heading over towards swannage and bournemouth and this is where we are likely to see the highest temperatures through the day. through the day we lose any drizzle from the cloud. the cloud brea ks drizzle from the cloud. the cloud breaks up and the sun comes out and it won't feel as cool alongside the north sea coast line as it did yesterday because the wind is not strong. we will see showers which could be sharp across the highlands, but most of scotland dry. northern england again largely dry with sunshine. the midlands dry with sunny spells. the same for east anglia and essex and kent and temperatures 22 and maybe 23 or 24 around the london area. across hampshire into dorset, a lot of dry weather. across south—west england, although there will be a lot of dry and sunny weather around, you could catch a shower as indeed you could across wales. if you do, they could be sharp, but once again, they will be sharp, but once again, they will be hit and miss and be sharp, but once again, they will be hitand miss and many be sharp, but once again, they will be hit and miss and many of them will miss them. we have had low cloud around this morning over northern ireland. that's breaking and again, we are looking at sunny skies coming through. through the

evening and overnight, many of the showers will fade. it's going to be dry more for most of us, but we have got this line of rain and wind coming in from the west. temperatures not too dissimilar to the nightjust gone. that's courtesy of this area of low pressure with its fronts bringing the rain from the west to the east. as you can tell by the squeeze on the isobars, it will be a windy day. so heavy rain to start with across northern ireland and northern england and the north—west and scotlandment further south, the rain will be with us and it won't be as heavy, but it will be a blustery day, and as the rain pushes off into the north sea, behind it it will brighten up with sunshine and showers, but we will hang on to more cloud across most of england and again there will be patchy light rain coming out of that. highs tomorrow up to 21 celsius. through the evening though, we lose the set of fronts. they push off to the near continent, dragging

the low pressure to the centre of the low pressure to the centre of the south—west. it will brood deuce rain and again, some windy conditions in the north—west. so to put pictures on that, a lot of dry weather to start the day. then we have got the rain across parts of northern ireland and scotland. showers across england and wales and fairly blustery with highs up to 20 or 22 celsius. hello, it's tuesday, it's 10 o'clock, i'm victoria derbyshire. the parents of terminally—ill charlie gard are spending their last precious moments with their son. they have ended their legal fight to take him to the us for treatment after a us doctor told them it is too late to treat charlie's condition. to charlie, we say, mummy and daddy, we love you so much. we always have and we always will and we are so sorry we couldn't save you. we'll hear from some former jehovah's witnesses who say leaving their faith has left them isolated, shunned by friends and family and even feeling suicidal. it is very sad. i have got several

brothers and sisters, for instance, who i was quite close to. from the day of my leaving, i have not spoke to them at all. you can hear that full interview shortly. notjust a victory in cricket, but a momentous moment for the sport. that's the verdict of some of the england's women's cricket team who won the world cup on sunday. we talk to two of the team shortly. now to the bbc newsroom with a summary of today's news. the parents of charlie gard so they are preparing to spend their last precious moments with their son after deciding to end their legal battle to take in the us for treatment. great ormond street hospital where charlie is on life support said they recognised the agony, desolation and bravery of the decision. the hospital added, they would be giving careful thought to what could be learned from the case. builders could be banned from selling new homes as leasehold properties in england under

proposals put forward by the government today. it comes after it emerged some housing developers have been selling the leasehold on to investment firms without always telling homeowners, leading to extra costs or rising charges. and victoria will be speaking to campaigners and representatives from the building industry a little later in this programme. an official report into the use of vaginal mesh implants to treat incontinence and organ prolapse has been described as a whitewash by campaigners. earlier this year, this programme revealed that hundreds of women are living with chronic pain and complications after undergoing surgery. the report by nhs england has called for better reporting of problems and increased knowledge sharing, but it has not recommended discontinuing use of the mesh. some breaking news. the number of fatal police shooting fund that's after police pursuits in england and wales rose significantly last year

according to the latest figures. the ipcc found there were six fatal police shooting in 2016—17, the highest for 12 years. 32 people died after police road incidents, the highest totalfor after police road incidents, the highest total for eight years, 28 of which were from pursuits. a young man with autism has been paid around £45,000 in damages by a private hospital and the police after the way they treated him. adam nasralla was pinned to the floor and to his bed for 11 hours by nine members of staff at a private hospital in birmingham. he was sometimes so heavily medicated that he could hardly speak or stand. a local authority investigation found there had been serious and multiple failings in his care. that's a summary of the latest bbc news — more at 10.30. we will bring you an interview with

jehovah's witnesses soon. luke says, iam jehovah's witnesses soon. luke says, i am writing some of the things i have heard regarding your section on disfellowships. i am a former jehovah's witness who left when i was 18 as i no longer believed in the main elements of the religion. i was not baptised, i was not disfellowshipped. i have never been shunned. ifeel sometimes disfellowshipped. i have never been shunned. i feel sometimes jehovah's witnesses get bashed in the media because it is a religion people do not understand and they only know as the people who knock on doors and do not celebrate christmas and birthdays. there are some aspects i do not agree with, but it is no worse than other religions. it is nice to see people talking about jehovah's witnesses, but it seems it is only talked about in a bad light. chris, iam is only talked about in a bad light. chris, i am an ex—jehovah witness, i used to see my son a couple of years ago until they released a talk any association outside of the religion

was to be stopped immediately. my son took his gcses this year, i will never know what his grades were. this is an evil practice from a hypocritical organisation. that interview to come after the sport. it was a great evening in the pool for great britain on day two of the world aquatics championships in hungary, as they won two gold medals. as expected, olympic champion adam peaty successfully defended his 100m breaststroke title, just missing out on his own world record. he now holds the top ten times in the world for this distance, finishing over a second ahead of his nearest rival. and in the last hour, peaty has sliced more than three—tenths of a second off his own 50m breaststroke world record in the heats. he'll go in the semifinals later on this evening.

gb's second gold went to commonwealth champion ben proud in the 50m butterfly. this isn't even his favoured event — that's the 50 metres freestyle — which he competes in at the end of the week. the gold medal was a bit of a surprise...and for no one more than proud himself! winning has not been on my mind and thatis winning has not been on my mind and that is really help. maybe getting a medal would be nice, but... that is really help. maybe getting a medalwould be nice, but... left speechless. there's been criticism of the rfu's decision not to renew contracts for the england women's fifteen—a—side team. the world champions defend their title in ireland next month, but afterwards the rfu will shift focus to the sevens squad ahead of next year's commonwealth games. the rfu say several players will be offered sevens contracts. those involved in 15 ‘s rugby at the moment, at the elite end, they will potentially have to look for further employment could sustain their

ability to be an athlete, said that is where the frustrations are coming from. what is positive there is funding and support but it is not enough. going forward, there needs to be further investment, notjust in rugby, but in other sports, as we have seen with england cricket. manchester city have broken the world transfer record for a defender by signing monaco full back benjamin mendy for £52 million. the france international has signed a five—year deal. after the signings of kyle walker and daneelo, city have spent almost £130 million on fullbacks this summer. and former manchester united forward javier hernandez has signed for west ham from bayer leverkhusen for £16 million. he's mexico's leading goalscorer and becomes the fourth signing at west ham this summer. six years after partially severing his arm in a rally crash, robert kubica's hopes of returning to formula 1 will move a step closer next week when he tests a current renault car in hungary. he has already done two tests

in a 2012 car and claims his physical limitations don't affect his driving. the official two—day test will allow renault to compare his performance against other teams and drivers. that is all the sport for now. back with more later on. good morning. next this morning, former jehovah's witnesses tell this programme how leaving their faith has left them isolated, shunned from friends and family and even feeling suicidal. jehovah's witnesses are members of a christian—based religious movement. there are about 6.9 million active witnesses in the world and about 130,000 in the uk. members reject the sinful values of the secular world and try to maintain a degree of separation from non—believers. they don't celebrate christmas or easter, discourage university education and don't vote. a viewer emailed us to say her son has refused to speak to her or let her see her grandchildren since she decided to stop being a jehovah's witness six years ago. she asked us to look into the practice of shunning whereby people are ignored by their family and people in their former congregation

when they choose to leave the faith. speaking publicly for the first time together, three formerjehovah's witnesses have given us a rare insight into what happens when you stop believing in the religion. one of them is terri o'sullivan who stopped being a jehovah's witness 17 years ago. sarah and john left much more recently and we've protected their identities. these are not their real names and john's words are spoken for him. give us a little bit of an insight into what it was like growing up as a jehovah's witness, sarah. i was what was classed as a third—generation jehovah's witness, so my grandparents were jehovah's witnesses, my parents were jehovah's witnesses, and then i was a jehovah's witness. i was limited in my social groups, i wasn't allowed to associate with school friends. even then, as i got older, be it living under my parents‘ roof or with my husband, i wasn't allowed to

associate with work friends outside of work, either. right, so anyone who wasn't a jehovah's witness, effectively, you weren't supposed to be friends with or associate with? exactly. why? they believed that bad associations... well, the scripture they use is, bad associations spoil useful habits. so, anybody outside of the jehovah's witness religion is classed as a bad association. that is, friends and even family that aren'tjehovah's witnesses that have maybe perhaps not converted at the same time, you're not supposed to have anything to do with them, either. what about yourself, john? what insight would you give our audience in terms of living your life as a jehovah's witness? what could you do and what couldn't you do? well, there was nothing like birthdays or christmasses, any of that kind of normal celebrations that children seem to enjoy. they were strictly taboo, and that kind of subjected you to a fair bit ofjeering and laughing at school. and then the kids would always say things like,

what are you waiting for — christmas? just that kind of mickey—taking. like sarah, i didn't have many friends. i did have a couple of friends within school, but association with them was very limited, certainly outside. so, most of my friends were jehovah's witnesses, which kind of makes you grow up in a very insular environment, where the only thing you are ever subjected to is other witnesses and other kind of witnesses' beliefs. and in terms of going to school, obviously, you went to school. what about higher education — a—levels, university, etc? strictly frowned upon. i got really good gcse results at school. i had the opportunity to go to university. but it was frowned upon... because? they encourage you to live a simple... what they call a simple life. so, you are not to be materialistic. so, a higher qualification is classed as being materialistic.

i was encouraged at 16 to get an admin job and pioneer, which is doing a set amount of hours for the witnesses, going door—to—door. i was really discouraged from doing anything, even my a—levels. right. certainly, the education in my... it was something that i felt very frustrated about, because... actually, my dad was quite progressive in that he did encourage me to get an education, but the cultural environment of the witnesses was stronger than he was. you went to school till, what, 16? i went to school till i was 16, yeah. and then, as a lot of young witnesses do, i had to start window cleaning, and did that for seven years. so, i missed out on the opportunity to go to university, which is something i regret. what insight would you give, terry, in terms of being brought up

as a jehovah's witness? just what it was like? yeah, so, it's a very busy life being a jehovah's witness. certainly when i was a witness, there were three meetings a week. john, you'd been having doubts about being a jehovah's witness for many years — what sort of doubts? they were very creeping doubts, little things. i had a lot of questions about some of the teachings that witnesses believe in, such as their belief about 1914, or the 144,000. you'll need to explain the 144,000. yeah, the witnesses believe that only a very small amount of people will go to heaven, and the rest of people that survive through armageddon will go on to live on earth for ever, and they take a scripture from revelations to believe that the number that will go to heaven will be limited to 144,000 people. but my own personal

reading of the bible, i... i wasn't convinced by that. and also, a lot of the scriptures i would read would kind of indicate that that heavenly life wasn't for everybody. and did you voice those doubts to other members? not massively. a little bit. i would talk, mostly to my wife about it, or members of my family. progressively, i would do more and more bible—reading myself, and i would kind of... they tend to read a scripture and marry it up with another scripture, but i would read the whole chapter, or several chapters, and think, actually, this doesn't seem to be saying exactly what they say it does. what did you fear would happen if you stopped being a jehovah's witness? well, i didn't really know what else to go to. it's quite a frightening thought to believe that what you've been brought up with from a kid, and you completely believe, might not be true, so you tend to kind of mentally block it out. a friend of yours, i think, john, who was also

a jehovah's witness, died. how did that influence how you felt about your religion? by that time, i was already more convinced that what the witnesses taught wasn't true, or not all of it, anyway. and then he needed a blood transfusion, and he got very ill. it took him a couple of weeks and he died, and itjust seemed like... a sort of waste of life. he was a great guy. and then your religion, just to explain, your religion says that blood transfusions aren't allowed. yes, they use a scripture in acts chapter 15 which says to keep abstaining from blood. again, reading through the chapter, i couldn't see any particularly good reason why that should mean someone should have to lay their life down. again, on that subject, jehovah's witnesses in britain told us, "when we have health problems, we go to doctors who have skill in providing medical

and surgical care without blood. surgeons regularly perform such complex procedures as heart operations, orthopaedic surgery and organ transplants without the use of blood tra nsfusions". you were disfellowshipped — explain what that means. i got a call one day from elders. previously, they would come around to my house and they would say, what's the problem? why don't you like going to the meetings any more? we would discuss it in points, but then i had a call one day, and they asked me to come to the hall where they worship to have what they call a judicial committee, which is essentially three elders and at least two witnesses to your alleged crime, and they said it was to discuss my alleged apostasy. well, by that time, i was pretty much convinced that the witnesses weren't the right religion to inform me, so i said, i don't want to go. i really don't recognise your authority, and so they went ahead and had this judicial committee in my absence, and i had a phone call to say that i had been

disfellowshipped and i had one week to appeal. which means what, kicked out? it essentially means everybody you know within the witness organisation, all your friends, or your family, from that point onwards, they make an announcement in the kingdom hall, is from that point not allowed to speak to you at all. they're not allowed to speak to you? no. and that's happened? that has happened, yeah. i mean, it's very sad, you know. i've got several brothers and sisters, for instance, whom i was quite close to, and from the day of my disfellowship, i haven't spoken to them at all. which was how long ago? just over two years ago now. what do you think about that? i think it's really sad. have you tried to contact them? yeah. sometimes i send them a message saying, i love you, thinking of you, but usually there is not a response. i did actually get a message from my brother saying, yeah, i love you too,

but that's the strength of it. right. and sarah, this has happened to you, too. you also have been shunned. yes. i don't speak to any of my family... mum, dad, siblings...? no, not at all. for how long now? forjust over 18 months now. that's really hard, isn't it? it is. much likejohn, i will try and send the occasional message, but there's... there's no response. and the impact on you of that? it's been very, very difficult. i actually get married in a couple of years' time, and having to plan a wedding where your parents won't attend,

where i will actually have no family on my side as i walk down the aisle because of a religious belief, because i left the religion on the basis of my own safety, but because they classed it as being wrong in the bible, i would class myself as an orphan, which is quite sad. teri, how do your experiences of 17 years ago compare to whatjohn and sarah have described more recently, of being shunned? i mean i wasn't actually disfellowshipped like they were, so i managed to leave without getting, er... as far as they were aware, breaking any of their rules so i didn't have a judicial committee and i moved away as well. but the thing is, they still shun you anyway so officially they don't have to shun me but they do.

so what would happen if i was in the town where i grew up and i saw a witness, they would cross the street. they wouldn't wave. this is people you grew up with as a child, you've been on holiday with them, these were your best friends. like i said, we didn't have friends outside the religion so you would be seeing them every week and spend time around their house, they would be at your house, that sort of thing. and then they won't even say hello. they will cross the street now. i'm sure you guys have had that experience plenty of times as well. it's just a very common experience for ex—witnesses. and so the impact on you? yes, so obviously, like, one of my sisters who is still in the religion, i have no contact with her and she has two children who, one's just leaving school and one i guess is at high school now, and i don't know them.

i also don't know my sister because she was disfellowshipped when i was a child. she's older than me. and for five years, when she was trying to get reinstated she would sit at the back of the kingdom hall. so when they want to come back to the religion they have to sit at the back of the kingdom hall for each meeting, but you still can't talk to them. and that went on for sort of five years. and yes, so that was all of my childhood, and then when she got reinstated i left, so i don't really know my sister. i don't know what kind of food she likes. i don't know what she does at the weekend, you know, i don't know what she does for fun. it's knowing that you have a sister that you don't know that's quite tough. yes, that is sad. sarah, did you know that you would be shunned, effectively, if you didn't submit to the way your husband wanted to treat you?

yes, but you have a hope, i suppose, that your family would still love you enough to speak to you. but that is... that was a driving point that made me stay probably longer than i should have because i was terrified i had no support network outside of the religion. i had nobody. and i knew if i left, i would have nobody. so it was what was the lesser of two evils. and when you did leave, when you were shunned, disfellowshipped, where did you go? where did you sleep? i went from bed to bed at friends' houses from work that i had not known two minutes, and these people rally round me,

these people that i'd been told were awful and a bad association and god was going to smite them all at armageddon. and yet these people opened up their homes. all of my colleagues in my office at the time, i stayed there and everybody made sure i was all right and i was safe. john, where did you go? because you wouldn't have friends or a support network outside the religion either, would you ? no, it was a very isolating time. i mean, immediately after the disfellowshipping, i was still within my family home for, er... it turned out that my wife was one of the witnesses in the judicial committee, that put a huge strain on our relationship so we ended up splitting. for a while i lived in a tent and then i lived in a caravan. so you were homeless, effectively?

pretty much, yeah. it was kind of on my own doing because i chose to leave but ijust felt i couldn't stay in that environment any more. it was a difficult time. that summer was probably the hardest time of my life. i didn't have anybody at all. i felt quite suicidal to be honest. did you? and now? now i have been very lucky. i have a fantastic support network of people that really care about me and really give me everything i need. i feel quite blessed. how do you reflect, sarah, on your life as a jehovah's witness compared to now? i won't sit here and say it was all bad because you find good people and bad people everywhere, and there are good people in the religion that genuinely think that they are saving people's life and that they are doing the right thing. but i look back and i think, who could have i been?

what could i have been? where could i have gone if i had had the opportunities that people normally have? what type of person would i have been? i mean i'm more than trying to make up for it now with christmas and birthdays and things like that, but i look back with some happy memories because they were the last memories i had with my family and with my siblings. but then i do have to look back and feel a lot of heartbreak that i'm never going to really ever be able to sit down for a sunday meal with them again, or when they die i probably won't be invited to the funeral either. and how do you reflect, john? they are decent people and this was one of the things that made it so hard to distance myself from them because, you know, they're moral, they are generally very moral people. they have high standards, and if the whole world

was jehovah's witnesses there would probably be a lot less crime and war. but it comes at a big cost of personal freedom. we'd like to add that those allegations against sarah's former partner have never been proven. in a statement, the religious group told us, "if a baptised witness makes a practice of breaking the bible's moral code, and does not give evidence of stopping the practice, he or she will be shunned or disfellowshipped. when it comes to shunning, witnesses take their instructions from the bible and on this subject the bible clearly states, "remove the wicked man from amongst yourselves". myles says joe hoe vas witnesses don't disfellowship for someone not attending a memorial service. they provide support for one that is need help. separation is a personal choice and attending the memorial is a personal choice. please check your

fa cts a personal choice. please check your facts before publishing lies. can i suggest a full apology and an article which shows how loving and valuable to the community this group is? you can find plenty of material onjw dot org. another viewer says, "we grew up scared. scared of doing normal things like having friends and listening to music, dancing, having boyfriends and going to university, in case god joined us and would murder us at the end of the world. my parents actively shunned my disfellowship sister. my sister nearly died as a child as she was refused a blood transfusion when very ill. we have suffered the grief of losing our parents whilst they are still alive. we have struggled in adulthood to find careers and friendships as all of these things we re friendships as all of these things were considered worldly. it took yea rs of were considered worldly. it took years of counselling and bravery to come out of the cult and make a normal life. i'm so glad someone is talking about this." one more for now and there have been many. sue

says, "i'm glad you're discussing this. i was brought up in the faith and it is the most ostracising religion. i would and it is the most ostracising religion. iwould never go and it is the most ostracising religion. i would never go into assembly all my school life. i would have to stand outside the hall. aprart in the new no christmas, birthday and harvest festival, none of which i could join in. i would lie to other children. i tried to explain to my mum how it affected me. she really does not understand or maybe doesn't want to as she still believes in this faith. by by the way, we decided to look into this issue after the viewer e—mailed us. if you've got a story you'd like us to look at, do e—mail victoria@bbc.co.uk the equal pay act came into force in 1970. but nearly five decades on, we're still talking about the gender pay gap. in her first speech as prime minister a year ago, theresa may spoke

of the burning injustice that if you're a woman, you will earn less than a man. the debate was reignited last week when the bbc published the salaries of on—air men and women earning more than £150,000. it showed in some cases there was a pay gap between what men are paid and what women are paid. meanwhile, under new laws, all businesses with more than 250 employees have until next april to publish the salaries of their employees. so, let's speak to some women affected by the gender pay gap. we can speak now to lynn knapp, a primary school head teacher. among leaders of educational institutions, there is a 20% pay gap. bridgett bartlett is a senior female figure in the construction sector, and a chartered institute of building department chief executive. the construction industry has the biggest pay gap of all sectors, according the office for national statistics. there is a 45% pay gap among construction and building trades supervisors. gudrun ravetz, works day to day as a vet, and is also president of the british vetinery association. the veterinary profession is one of the few

where women are on average paid 8% more than men. and kiran dhurka, who is an employment law specialist and partner at leigh day solicitors. she's fought numerous cases where women have been paid less than men for doing the same job. bridgett starting with the construction sector, massive disparity, 45%, why? it is a really serious issue, five decades on, we should not be here. it depends where you are in the construction industry. as a chartered professional, there will be 2%... should you be grateful? we deserve equal pay and we have done for the last five decades. i was coming at age in the 70s, i thought, everything is going to be all right. now nearing retirement, the same discriminate who practices exist. however, it is cleared the construction industry is gradually

improving, particularly in the last ten years, average pay has increased from 24,000 tojust ten years, average pay has increased from 24,000 to just under 40,000. women are seeing a 6% pay increase year on year. but it is not good enough. men are often the first to get promotion. women complain about being overlooked. it is a serious issue. is it meant hiring people who look like them and giving them better salaries? is it as simple as that? not quite as simple. the industry appreciates it has a huge skills problem, it needs to recruit more women. it is predicted that by 2020, to fill the gaps, we will need to have 12 to 5% of the industry —— 2596 to have 12 to 5% of the industry —— 25% of the industry being women. to have 12 to 5% of the industry —— 25% of the industry being womenm does not explain the plain clap. but it does make it easier to fix. it is encouraging that companies with more than 250 staff have to publish, but our industry is fragmented, lots of

subcontractors with a small number of employees. i would encourage the government to get people in our industry particularly anywhere where there is more than a 10% gender pay gap to actually publish because only by having better transparency, as we have had last week courtesy of the bbc‘s revelations, will we actually address this issue and i have been waiting for it to be addressed for 40 yea rs. waiting for it to be addressed for 40 years. i do not want to wait any longer. lynn, in terms of senior professionals in education, headteachers like yourself, 61% of the workforce is female, but men in the workforce is female, but men in the top roles get on average 20% more pay than someone like yourself. why? | more pay than someone like yourself. why? i think men get promoted more quickly, particularly in primary schools, men are quite rare. people like to have a man in school, particularly when it is a primary school. governors appoint teachers and headteachers and i think you will often hear in school, wouldn't it be great to have a man on the staff? it does not explain why they

get paid more. because the way the syste m get paid more. because the way the system works, you can choose where their headteacher goes on the pay scale. if you have a pay scale in the school and a man is put at a higher grade than a female member of staff, you start to get the disparity. they become like gold dust. it is supply and demand. disparity. they become like gold dust. it is supply and demandm is, particularly in primary schools. but it does notjustify it. no, we do the same role. i know headteachers managing smaller schools getting paid more because they are a male in a primary profession where they are clearly like gold dust. let us talk about the veterinary profession because it is unusual in that women on average are paid about 8% more than men. that is also unfair. it is a really interesting figure because when we look at the benchmark surveys for the profession, pulled from a similar numberas forthe

the profession, pulled from a similar number as for the office for national statistics, it shows a different figure. a contrary view. what does your research show? her our women are what does your research show? her ourwomen are paid what does your research show? her our women are paid 16% less than men, it is true for full—time figures as well. the reason it is coming through is there are many more men in senior positions, as we have heard, in headteachers, and although we have a great number of women in the profession, a lot more men in senior positions, often business owners, directors, they would not come into these figures because they would not be coming through the paye and they are earning more and we know male graduates often earn more sooner after qualification than female graduates in the veterinary profession. the figure shows an indifferent, probably similar to what you have been saying. what has to be addressed in your particular profession to make sure there is equal pay for doing the same job? listening to everybody, it is society. we have not got the silver

bullet. as a profession, we are running a project that is looking into this area of why it is happening, what is happening with the graduates and white are their pay disparities. we do not have as many men in the profession as women and they are doing an incredibly valuable job, the same job, as highly qualified. but having the answer, there are theories and we need to see if they applied to the veterinary profession. we know women are not reaching the senior levels in the same way so that is increasing the pay disparity, but we do not know why it is happening and thatis do not know why it is happening and that is why we are looking into this. in terms of you acting on behalf of women who have discovered they are doing the same work as men but being paid less, kiran, you will have heard the argument, no one does exactly the same job. is it possible to prove you do? yeah, women prove it every day and get findings in

employment tribunal ‘s and grievances... but people will say, their experience is different, what they bring to it is different. this isa they bring to it is different. this is a really difficult area because employers are so defensive. they often do not understand how subjective their reasoning is over pay justification. subjective their reasoning is over payjustification. actually, we need a much clearer system as to why women and men are paid in certain ways. they need to think through, is it really... five years experience, does it matter? how much more does ten yea rs does it matter? how much more does ten years experience at? market value, what market are you looking at? i do not think there is real transparency or discussion over the criteria of pay. finally, from all of you, let us be specific, you have research going on in your industry to see the reasons, what are your theories about why this still happens in britain in 2017? traditionally, it has happened, and

ido traditionally, it has happened, and i do not think we have confronted it, we have said there are problems, but we have not said, why is this happening? there are theories that perhaps women are not asking, but i'm not convinced. it is a knock on that if it is an employer, they think, we will not offer it. we do not know. we are getting to the point because it has become so prominent, we are actively thinking. within the veterinary profession, i do not think employers go out to go, i want to give a male employee more. think employers go out to go, i want to give a male employee morem think employers go out to go, i want to give a male employee more. it is subconscious. it is creeping and seeping and we have to stand up and say, it is not right, looking at how we sought pay structures, looking at how you pay people, rather than doing the traditional, if i ask, i may get. it really is based on maternity and there is this preconception that women are not committed, they will leave the workforce, they do not progress. once they return, there are all sorts of stereotypes around women at

a particular age. also, there are too few women around the boardroom tables. in our industry, there are only a handful of us considered to be senior in the industry. we bump into each other all the time because we are so few. you need women around the boardroom table because they will start looking at those practices and challenging them. not always. one would hope they would. 0k, always. one would hope they would. ok, thank you. we will see what happens. thank you for coming on the programme, all of you. england's women cricketers stunned fans at lord's on sunday when they fought back against india to win the world cup. but it wasn't just a victory for england — it was a victory for the sport. one of the team's bowlers has described it as a watershed moment for women's cricket. the players say they set out to inspire girls to play cricket and the way they have played has most certainly done that. following their victory, former england all—rounder, paul collingwood tweeted this... i've been trying for years and today, finally, my daughters want to play cricket!

thank you @englandcricket women, inspirational. let's take you back now to lord's to relive that momentous win. on strike. six wickets for anya shrubsole, england's hair! england win the world cup in front of a packed house at lords who go nuts in the crowd. applause england in a huddle. listen to that noise, for an england women's team winning the world cup on home soil in 2017. england have done it by just nine runs at lords. but it wasn't just a victory for england — it was a victory for the sport. one of the team's bowlers has described it as a watershed moment for women's cricket. i have said that! let us introduce two of the team, tammy beaumont and alex hartley. i havejust seen the world cup, how heavy is it? really heavy! lift it. it looks really liked! congratulations, both of you. as it sunk in? no, not yet. we keep

having to pinch ourselves, having the trophy today, incredible, to be in front of a packed house at lords, the cherry on top. what about you, alex? it has not sunk in yet, but absolutely a dream come true. the trophy next to us, everything i have drained of as a young child. -- dreams of. i was there on sunday with mums and dads and kids, all of them boys. you know what, india were cruising to victory, chasing a fairly modest 229 to win. what happened at the end? so tense! anya shrubsole is what happened! an absolute hero, she bowled fa ntastically. absolute hero, she bowled fantastically. it was an unbelievable win in the end. in terms of her story, just for those who do not know, she first visited lourdes in 2001 when her dad was playing for bath and she tweeted she

would love to play in a final one day at lord's for england —— she visited lourdes. it was incredible she got the opportunity. she dreamt of it as a young child. tammy, real inspiration for anyone who wants to play in a final, buy or girl, do you agree? definitely. we saw so many young girls and boys around the pitch after the game, just incredible, no better time to be playing women and girls cricket in this country. hopefully the start of something brilliant for the sport. tammy, you have spoken about how you used to have doubts that you were good enough. tell us a bit about that, give us more insight. yeah, pretty tricky start to my career, in and out of the team. two years ago, i thought i had played my last game for england. the coach came in, massive second chance for me. i have taken it with both hands and now we are here as world champions and it

feels incredible, all the tears back in the day have been worth it. what did you do to turn things around for yourself? loads of people watching will either have experienced it themselves or through their kids, one minute you are in the team, the next, you are not. it wasjust a case of going back to why i started playing the game, i have always loved playing cricket, it got to the point where i worked out exactly what i wanted to do and how i needed to get there and i decided i wanted to get there and i decided i wanted to try and become one of the best opening batters in the world, i am not there yet, but it started a journey for me. to get a second chance and rob owen, not looking back, always believing in myself, listening to the people that count, the coach, my mum and dad, some of my closest friends, that was all that mattered. clearly you put the ha rd that mattered. clearly you put the hard work in. alex, give us an insight into the kind of routine you have in order to become a world champion. for me, i moved from

lancashire down the middlesex when i was four —— four years ago. at loughborough, three days a week. just seen an awful photo of me on the screen! three days a week, loughborough training. dream come true. fantastic. i know you know about paul collingwood's tweaked, former england player, saying, finally, because of your achievement, his daughters will get into cricket. let us have a look at that. that is quite... do you feel that. that is quite... do you feel thatis that. that is quite... do you feel that is a responsibility or does it make you happy? that is one of them tweets that touched me quite a lot. it is amazing to see we have inspired some young girls to play cricket and hopefully that will continue and itjust shows how exciting the tournament has been and how much the crowd have got involved and the british public have been

amazing. what are the conversations you have had with young girls about them getting into cricket? when we first started a lot of us are role models. we were in the men's game and for girls to be cheering you on and really excited to getan cheering you on and really excited to get an autograph or a picture, it brings a smile to my face and i'm sure the other girls feel the same. i can't really believe that we are role models. we're normal people really. to be seen like that and try and influence the future of women's cricket is amazing. well, thank you both of you. in terms of your hopes for women's cricket, how much is this going to change things and what do you hope for? yeah, it will massively change things. what we did on sunday has never been achieved before. we sold out lords and

hopefully we can inspire the next generation of young cricketers. thank you very much. thank you. congratulations again to you and the rest of the team. we really appreciate you talking to us. cheers. thank you very much. next this morning, unfair charges levied on buyers of new—build houses could be banned in england under a proposed crackdown. leaseholds on new homes would be outlawed, while ground rents could be dramatically reduced, under government plans which are going to go to consultation. earlier this year, this programme revealed how ground rents can double every decade, crippling home owners and in some cases making a property impossible to sell. the communities secretary, sajid javid, says that the situation has been getting worse year on year. if you take parts of cheshire and greater manchester and there are some developments there that are almost entirely leasehold houses

and when you explore this and you look at it in detail, there is no good reason and then what makes it worse is that often those come attached with ground rent clauses that see an ever escalating rent increase. in many cases, i have seen, they can go up from, so they start at something that sounds reasonable a couple of hundred of pounds a year and then within 30 to 40 years it is £10,000 a year. well, in february of this year our reporter, james longman, exposed what had been taking place on new build developments around the country. a developer builds a house. here it is. it sells that house to mr and mrs smith. here they are. but what is sold is the lease to that house. that's time in it. they haven't sold the ground it's on. that's the freehold and they keep that. this is the crucial bit — a couple of years later, the developer is then able to sell the freehold, that's the ground that it's on to an investment company. here he is, mr investor. it's a way of making money on the same house twice.

and here is the other catch — because it's a house and not a flat, the law says that the developer does not have to warn mr and mrs smith that they're going to do any of this and this whole business is worth hundreds of millions of pounds every year to the developers. this is ellesmere port near liverpool. it's a development like thousands of others across the uk. but the houses here are leasehold. the developers keep the freehold in order to sell them separately. so people living here are essentially living on ground which has been sold from underneath their feet and they don't even know about it. i had no idea that my home would be used as an endless income stream for an investor or somebody else's pension pot because that's what it is. katie kendrick bought her home from bellway developers. she was never told her freehold would be sold off. now, she wants to buy it, the price has gone from £4,000 to £13,000. where did they get that figure from?

i have no idea. i've asked the company for a breakdown of how the freehold is calculated. the methodology to the valuation to which they have failed to provide me with. they've said that i can either go with it or if i challenge it, then i have to take on their legal fees to do so. they have said that i can come back with a counter offer, but without all of the information on how they calculate the freehold, how can i make an informed decision how to counteract their offer? so at the moment i just feel completely blind and in a corner. since then katie kendrick‘s campaign on facebook has gone national and over 5,000 people who've fallen foul of the leasehold rule are fighting for a change in the law. katie's in our merseyside newsroom. lisa chapple says her life is being ruined by the hike in leasehold fees she now has to pay. rico wojtulewicz.

he represents the housebuilders association. and clive betts chairs the communities and local government select committee. he's in our sheffield newsroom. 0k. ok. so, katie, in terms of what the communities secretary has said today, what are you thinking? well, obviously this is really welcome news and this is a massive step in the right direction. but, you know, let's not forget that thousands of people are already stuck. this, as i said, it is a step in the right direction, but it is still a far way from fixing what is already broken. 0k. what from fixing what is already broken. ok. what in your view specifically needs to change tomorrow? well, there needs to be an outright ban on leasehold moving forward, but we need to address how we're going to get people back into owning their own homes which is what we thought we we re own homes which is what we thought we were going to do. so we want our freeholds. right, so you want retrospective action effectively? absolutely. that's the only way that it is going to be resolved for all

of the thousands that are already stuck with these unsellable houses. we have got a statement from the house building company taylor wimpey. they say this in response to the government's planned consultation, "we are working hard with the freeholders to convert our customers doubling leases at our expense. taylor wimpey set aside £130 million on converting the leases on our customers behalf." is that helpful? our view is this is no more than a sticking plaster on a weeping sore. this is not going to allow leaseholders to purchase their freeholds. this is only going to revert them to rp! lease which is not what we want. we want people to own their freeholds. it is the only way out. the taylor wumpy offer is not as good as it seems. it is just skimming overa not as good as it seems. it is just skimming over a really bad situation that they have created. ok. lisa, hello. thank you for coming on the

programme. tell our audience about how your ground rent is due to double? . we bought our property in december of 2009. we did know we we re december of 2009. we did know we were buying a leasehold property and were buying a leasehold property and we knew it was going to be £250 a year, but we were never told it was going to increase, never mind double. with they found out in january this year that our's is due to double in january of 2018 which is at the ten year mark, even though we have not gun in our property ten years, but it is based on when the land was bought and sold. that will be what? we will double to £500 in january 2018. and when did you realise that? clearly not early enough beforehand? no, we found out injanuary of enough beforehand? no, we found out in january of this year. so january 2017 and that's when we started to campaign from then. we were never informed of this at all, even by the solicitors or taylor wimpey who was our house—builder. solicitors or taylor wimpey who was our house-builder. ok. so let me

bring in rico from the house builders' association who do you represent? small and medium sized house builders and constructors. we are the house building division of the national federation of builders. so what is the justification for building new homes with leaseholds? well, i mean it really depends. if perhaps you are local authority or a council trying to build property on land you already own and perhaps you wa nt land you already own and perhaps you want a lease of 150 or 200 years or perhaps you have a national trust... let's talk about normal people like lisa or katie of the what's the justification? well, from our point of view and none of our members provide that business model. when i spoke to a member, taking lisa's point in ten years, she will see an increase of £500, that would take 150 years which doubles from £100 and it goes to £100 every 30 years.

so 60 years, £2—90 years, £300. that's fairer. especially when you are consider the cost perhaps of sustainable drainage or the lighting ona sustainable drainage or the lighting on a site. i can see lisa shaking her head in disagreement. sorry, i disagree with that because we were never disagree with that because we were never told it was ever to double. how can we ever never told it was ever to double. how can we ever make an never told it was ever to double. how can we ever make an informed decision? we thought we were buying our property and also actually our lease is capped at 50 years, but it doubles every ten years which we have only found out about. so in 2058 which sounds a very long time away, we will be paying £8,000 a yearin away, we will be paying £8,000 a year in ground rent alone and actually i will be paying long—term about £182,000 just on leasehold alone, never mind my mortgage or what my house is worth. let me bring in clive betts labour mp. is this simply financial exploitation by the

big house builders? well, i can't see any justification big house builders? well, i can't see anyjustification at all why houses, we are not talking about flats here, we talking about houses, which are built on their own piece of land that the land shouldn't be sold with the house on a freehold basis. i can't see anyjustification apart from either the house—builder oran apart from either the house—builder or an investment company thinking they can make profit at the house owner's expense. i think the government is right to talk about ending this practise for the future, but just listening there ending this practise for the future, butjust listening there to the conversation, it's also right that we have to think what we can do to help those people who are in the situation where they can be exploited with unreasonable increases in leasehold charges in the future. clive and lisa are talking about two different things. ours isa talking about two different things. ours is a very fair and proportionate approach. i would disagree with homeowners having their tenancy, effectively their tenancy put in jeopardy.

their tenancy, effectively their tenancy put injeopardy. it shouldn't be put injeopardy. if you worked to the models that i explained our members work. 249 year lease, £100 every ten years. it would, sorry every 30 years it would increase. actually, if you look at inflation and you can also buy the freehold and it is called freehold reversion. but the point is people think they are buying the freehold when they buy the house?” think they are buying the freehold when they buy the house? i cannot speak for the model of this organisation. can ijust say speak for the model of this organisation. can i just say this issue isn't about how much you pay ina yearforground issue isn't about how much you pay in a yearfor ground rent? this is about the extra permission fees that they add on. permission to build an extension or a conservatory that doesn't need planning per murks, gone up to £2600. that is ridiculous. that's permission to do nothing, but just to ridiculous. that's permission to do nothing, butjust to say ridiculous. that's permission to do nothing, but just to say yes. ridiculous. that's permission to do nothing, butjust to say yes. clive betts, are you going to push in this consultation for retrospective help for people like lisa and katie? we have got to. katie right at the

beginning of this piece put her finger on beginning of this piece put her fingeron it, when beginning of this piece put her finger on it, when she said it is ok for the future and we ought to act for the future and we ought to act for the future for every so—called reasonable leasehold arrangement others can bring in unreasonable ones. let's stop the whole practise because it is not necessary. there is nojustification. but we have the people who are caught in the unreasonable arrangements which they have already signed up to when investment companies can come in and then as katie just explained not merely the ground rent increases, but you want to put a small extension on your house, a loft conversion, you pay an arm and a leg for t that's not fair. i'm going to pause you there. i want to bring viewers this news. it is to do with an incident in shaw in oldham. police are continuing to respond to an on going incident at a property on pemberton way. police responded to reports that a man had locked himself inside. the police are continuing to engage with the man

and attempt to bring the situation toa and attempt to bring the situation to a safe resolution. more on bbc news throughout the morning. thank you very much for your company today. we're back tomorrow at 9am. have a good day. good morning. we have got quite a bit of cloud of clarence house across central and eastern parts. that will thin and break up. many of us enjoying a scene like this as our weather watcher in wiltshire has shown us this morning. for many there will be sunny spells. but the cloud is stubborn across eastern parts of england, but unlike yesterday, where it stuck around all day, there will be good breaks. one or two showers towards the south east and we could see the odd sharp

shower across wales and south—west england. cloudy and damp across the north—east of scotland. quite a pleasa nt north—east of scotland. quite a pleasant afternoon really for many of us. through this evening, those showers across the south—west will continue for a time before clearing away. a fairly quiet night to come for many, but then rain spreads in for many, but then rain spreads in for the early part of wednesday morning. that's going to spread from west to east. it will be heavy for a time across scotland, northern parts of england, patchier the further south you go. and there will be brighter skies developing and sunshine in scotland, northern ireland, western areas into the afternoon with highs of 18 to 23 celsius. bye—bye. this is bbc news and these are the top stories developing at 11am: the government says it wants to put a stop to what it describes

as the "unjust" practice of builders selling new homes in england as leasehold — and preventing homeowners being crippled with rent increases. we're talking about houses that are being sold, thousands of them, for no good reason and then once they are sold, the people who purchased them are exposed to ever increasing ground rents. it's not acceptable and we are taking action. the parents of charlie gard say they are preparing to spend their "last precious moments" with their terminally ill son, after deciding to end their legal battle to take him to the united states for treatment. the number of fatal police shootings and deaths after police pursuits in england and wales rose significantly last year, with fatal shootings the highest in 12 years.