hello. it's wednesday, it's nine o'clock. i'm victoria derbyshire. welcome to the programme. our top story today: this programme has seen evidence that kensington and chelsea council was warned as early as 2010 that building a new school at the base of grenfell tower could block access to fire trucks and other emergency vehicles. the fire brigades union has told us that some fire engines had huge difficulties getting to the tower that night. it now wants those access problems looked at as part of a full public inquiry. we'll bring you reaction. also on the programme: is the culture of abuse towards mps getting out of control? mps from all parties have been telling us about the kind of intimidating and bullying messages they receive. caroline ansell is as bad as isis and hitler. kat smith should be lynched. you talibanic expletive! tory scum. eat expletive in hell, you tory witch. get out of my country, you ugly, racist expletive! ugly, smelly, muslim vermin.

tory scum. we'll ask whether this kind of regular abuse mps receive will end up driving some of them out of politics altogether. plus, up to 60 reports of murder and thoughts of killing associated with antidepressants have been received by the uk medicines regulator in the last three decades. i believe if he hadn't taken the sertraline he wouldn't have murdered anyone. we'll look at what that means. hello. welcome to the programme. we're live until 11. throughout the programme, we'll bring you the latest breaking news and developing stories. a little later, we'll hear claims that sperm is declining at such a dramatic rate the human species could eventually become extinct. fairly stark warning, that! we'll bring you all the details.

do get in touch on all the stories we're talking about this morning — use the hashtag victoria live. and if you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate. our top story today: new diesel and petrol cars are to be banned from 2040, as part of efforts to tackle air pollution. the move will be announced by the government this morning, heralding a shift to all—electric vehicles, which now account for only about one per cent of the market. there'll also be a fund of £255 million to help local councils speed up efforts to combat emissions from diesel vehicles. holly hamilton reports. archive: he drives up in a 1908 model t. we've come a long way in terms of design, but for 100 years we've been relying on vehicles with an internal combustion engine burning petrol or diesel, but is that about to change? several major car—makers including bmw, volkswagen and volvo have already announced ambitious plans for electric cars, seen as a key way

of tackling air pollution, and now the government is signalling the end of petrol and diesel engines in the uk with a ban on sales by 2040. it's part of a £3 billion air quality strategy that also includes £255 million to help local authorities cut pollution. it will mean a ban on sales and production of new petrol or diesel vehicles in the uk as well as a consultation on a diesel scrappage scheme. the move follows a similar pledge earlier this month by president macron of france where the ban will also be introduced in 2040. campaigners are likely to complain that the government hasn't gone far enough or fast enough, while labour is saying nearly a0 million people are living in areas with illegal levels of air pollution and action is needed now and not in 23 years time. the environment minister, michael gove, speaking on the today

programme, was asked whether more was needed to be done to tackle the emissions problem now. i think it's important that we all gearupfora i think it's important that we all gear up for a significant change, which deals notjust with the problems to health caused by emissions but the broader problems caused in terms of accelerating climate change. but i do accept the premise, which is that we also need to ta ke premise, which is that we also need to take action now to deal with some specific health concerns which are raised by particular types of emission, and which are predominantly but not exclusively from diesel cars and other diesel vehicles. michael gove, the environment secretary. ben brown is in the bbc newsroom with a summary of the rest of the day's news. the high courtjudge overseeing the case of the terminally ill baby charlie gard will decide today whether the child's parents can take him home to die. doctors at great 0rmond street hospital say that, in the interest of his care, he should stay where he is or be moved to a hospice. his parents have appealed for a specialist doctor to come forward so he can spend his final hours at home.

thejudge leading the inquiry into the grenfell tower fire has told survivors he would "get to the bottom" of the tragedy during a second public meeting. shouting broke out as residents expressed their anger ahead of the final consultation on what the investigation should cover. dan johnson reports. this meeting was impassioned. shut up. heated. we're not here to fight each other, brother. and more than once, the inquiry chair, sir martin moore—bick, had to appeal for order. we are not going to get anywhere if you all talk at once. well, this meeting has broken up now after almost three hours of talking. it has been fractious at times, emotional too. i think what the inquiry panel can't have failed to take away is the frustration and anger that still exists here and the fact that some people don't have faith in their ability to do thejob properly. it's an exercise in futility. you know, quite honestly, i don't know why we have an inquiry that the so—called chair,

who's a judge, cannot compel witnesses to come and give evidence. we need to see that they are representative, that they are going to understand the pain, the humanitarian issues, because they're all very relevant in this as well. the main reason people are angry is because they're not getting answers. now whether that was the right forum to get those answers is questionable, but the fact is that people are still entitled to them. there is a lot of anger. there is a lot of emotion and i entirely understand why it should be so. we're going to continue to work with them and hope that by careful preparation and discussion, and so on, we can make them realise that we can give them justice by finding out what the facts really were. today, there's another meeting, when residents can question the response team about new homes. but six weeks after this fire, there's little sign of things getting much easier, here. two men have been targeted

in a suspected acid attack in east london. the met police said the men, thought to be in their late teens, flagged down officers in bethnal green early yesterday evening. both men were taken to hospital. police said it was still not known what liquid was thrown at them. no arrests have been made. mps from all parties say they experience regular trolling and abusive, intimidating language. they say they're targeted for their sexuality, religious beliefs and social background by people who were intent on "driving them out of politics altogether". an inquiry into the issue was announced by the standards watchdog earlier in july, and began its consultation this week. we'll be speaking to some mps about their experiences later in the programme. the us house of representatives has voted to impose fresh sanctions on russia, despite president donald trump objecting to the legislation. senior officials will be targeted

in retaliation for alleged russian interference in the 2016 american election. the measures will also see fresh sanctions against north korea and iran over ballistic missile tests. the supreme court is to rule on a challenge to the increase in fees for employment tribunal. the legal battle is a challenge to the fees brought injune 2013 in tribunals, which range from £390 to £1600. the cost of the fees has resulted in a huge reduction of cases. the supreme court is expected to make theirjudgement later this morning. humans could become extinct if sperm counts in men continue to fall at current rates, a doctor has warned. researchers assessing the results of nearly 200 studies say sperm counts among men from north america, europe, australia, and new zealand, seem to have halved in less than a0 years. they point to exposure to chemicals as a possible cause. at least 10,000 people, including

british holiday—makers, were moved to safety in the south of france during the night to escape rapidly spreading fires. a new blaze has broken out west of st tropez. a number of campsites on the coast have been evacuated. princess diana's brother says he was lied to about prince william and prince harry wanting to walk behind their mother's coffin. in an interview with the today programme, he said it was a bizarre and cruel thing for the princes to do. the funeral procession was, he said, the most horrifying half an hour of his life. he was speaking as the 20th anniversary of her death approaches in august. the number of people over 90 who hold a driving license in great britain has topped 100,000 for the first time. that's according to data

revealed by the dvla. currently drivers aged 70 and over are required to fill in a self—assessment form every three years. they must declare that their eyesight meets the minimum standard, but some think the law should be changed and they should be re—tested. that's all for now. 0n abuse rmp is, one viewer says: these people should be punished and should be behind bars. anthony says: we have to remember that mps are human, sort of! and another viewer says: they need to get over themselves. paul says, says: they need to get over themselves. paulsays, on briton they might consider not screaming at each other like three—year—olds

during pmqs. hughes is with us with this poor, and adam peaty is on fire! well, he's an incredible athlete — already, at the age of 22, we are talking about adam peaty as if he could well become britain's greatest—ever swimmer. he's already won a gold medal at the world aquatics championships in the 100 metres breakstroke. yesterday morning we mentioned a new world record in the 50 metres breastroke heats and last night he only went and did it again. another world record in his semifinal last night, and with it, the defending champion became the first person to go under the 26 second mark. if he wins this afternoon's final, he'll repeat his double world title achievement of two years ago. and you wouldn't bet against him doing it, especially as yesterday he said he was actually lacking in energy. honestly, that is... this morning i went 26.1 and i thought it was going to be hard to beat that. coming out there tonight i was a bit down because it's been such an emotional few days but i thought, right, get up for it and do what i do and mel said don't waste

an opportunity because you don't know when is going to be your last so ijust went out and did what i do. and that is the fourth time he's broken the world record for the 50 metres breast stroke, so fingers crossed things go perfectly for him in budapest a little later on. it is not just it is notjust about medals, he is 110w it is notjust about medals, he is now trying to take the sport as far as he can. football tra nsfer fees as he can. football transfer fees have been huge for years and they are continuing to go up what? yes, eve ryo ne continuing to go up what? yes, everyone is hoping to improve their team, but at what cost? the figures being spoken about for transfers this year have really raised eyebrows. we've seen manchester united spend £75 million for striker romelu lukaku from everton. manchester city have spent over £200 million already this summer, including 45 million on england defender kyle walker from spurs, and it's already become acceptable it seems, to see prices of 50,

60 or 70 million routinely discussed when it comes to premier league football. but is that sustainable? according tottenham's chariman, daniel levy, itjust isn't. he's well known for his smart business sense and he says the overspending of some clubs will "eventually catch up with them". last summer, jose mourinho made the world record transfer to bring paul pogba to old trafford for £89 million. despite his level of spending, he takes a similar view to levy. we spent a lot of money on the striker, and if we don't do that, we have no striker. that is obvious nowadays, especially for the strikers, the amount of money is amazing. every club is getting players, investing a lot. some clubs, obviously, they are paying too much, and by doing that, they create a very strange and out—of—control market, but this is a

reality now. and mourinho went on to say it was the smaller clubs who faced the real problem, rather than the likes of manchester united who could find themselves in financial trouble. for now at least, it seems that trend is set to continue. more from hugh throughout the morning. is our political culture getting steadily more and more abusive? mps from all parties say they experience regular trolling and abusive, intimidating language. they say they're targeted for their sexuality, religious beliefs and social background by people who were intent on "driving them out of politics altogether". an inquiry into the issue was announced by the standards watchdog earlier in july, and began its consultation this week. this programme has been speaking to mps about their experiences of campaigning and holding office, to get a sense of how serious the problem is. john 0wen has this report. caroline ansell is as bad as isis, and hitler. cat smith should be lynched. @rupahuq, you talibanic ...!

tory scum. eat...in hell, you tory witch. get out of my country, you ugly, racist...! ugly, smelly, muslim vermin. tory scum. want to see your head swinging from tower bridge. simon hart, you're a..., go get in the bin, i hope you stand in dog... you...muslim, fascist..., we voted brexit, and article 50 is going to get triggered anyway. and so it carries on. over the past few years, the uk's been caught up in a political whirlwind. every week seems to bring a new twist in the plot of a sometimes thrilling, sometimes chaotic political drama. but here at westminster, a lot of people are afraid that in the recent turbulence, the very nature of our political

conversation may have changed for the worse. this was the most abusive and vindictive election campaign most of us have ever been involved with. mps have told this programme about an emerging culture of abuse and intimidation in public life. it should never be part of the job to receive this level of abuse. i've had death threats, i've had people tweeting that i should be hung, i've had rape threats, described as a pathetic, useless, fat, black... and, as well as the interviews you'll see in this film, we've spoken to a lot of mps off the record. almost all of them told us that they'd received at least some abuse online, ranging from the quite trivial to the really very extreme. but the question is how serious is this problem? is what we're seeing just predictable part of passionate debate in fractious times, or is it something new and different that could even represent a threat to the very fabric of our democracy? there's an awful lot at stake here in the maintenance of our parliamentary institutions.

this is about sweeping opposition out of politics altogether. and the day that we've come to, you know, that we've come to where people don't feel that they can say what they think, that's actually quite a frightening new reality. conservative mp simon hart has been trying to shine a light on this problem, and he, at least, is convinced that in the last couple of years, things have become dramatically worse. because i've been involved in elections of one sort or another for ten or 15 years, and this one was very different. different where i live, different for colleagues all over the uk, and a real difference between 2015 and 2017. this was not an ordinary election, it was vitriolic, dishonest, unpleasant, not for politicians necessarily, we're meant to be used to that kind of thing, but for everybody around us. to your mind, is this something that affects politicians on the right of politics more than those on the left, or is it as bad for all sides?

from my own personal experiences, and the ones i was picking up from colleagues, i think there is a more active, there is more evidence of activity in this election orchestrated from the left than from the right, but i emphasise it was not exclusively like that. and so do you think, then, there's been a change in the character of left—wing activism in the last few years that you would say is responsible for the rise in this kind of language? well, that would be how it appears to me, yes, and, you know, one of my bugbears in all of this too is political leadership, and that's left and right, but also leadership of political movements. 0rganisations like momentum, or like the trade unions, although they occasionally say that they condemn these activities, there isn't a lot of evidence that they really mean to stamp it out. one of the big differences between conservative and labour, i observe, is that my party sees labour as the opposition. labour sees my party as the enemy. that's fundamental. isn't it right to say that jeremy corbyn in particular has

consistently condemned any kind of abusive or personalised attacks whilst he's been leader? well, i would say yes, he has, he is on the record as saying this is not how he wishes to, you know, what he wishes to be associated with. my question, though, is a bit more than that, it's ok, what have you done, jeremy, apart from sending out the odd tweet, what have you done to stop this? has there been a single member of the labour party or momentum or trade unions who's actually been reprimanded, sanctioned, kicked out for this kind of thing, where it's been provable? now, the fact is there has been no answer to that question, so actually if they want to be serious about this, they've got to do more than just pay lip service to it. they've got to do something about it. we don't want to stifle free speech, we don't want to stifle debate, we actually want to bring this back to an acceptable level, which means people can challenge us properly...

it's clear simon hart, like other conservative mps we've spoken to, holds left—wing activists primarily responsible for the recent rise in abusive language directed towards elected politicians. but on the other end of the political spectrum, labour's cat smith, a member of the shadow cabinet, and a close ally ofjeremy corbyn, has quite a different story to tell. the abuse that i receive personally tends to come from the hard right of politics. sometimes they're organised, sometimes they're not. the organised groups tend to be groups like britain first, the edl, and combat 18, who are very threatening. and you mention that women tend to get it worse than men, do you think that there is a misogynistic element to a lot of the abuse of tweets and things that you get? there's absolutely no doubt that women mps are receiving far more abuse than their male counterparts, and of the women mps, i'd say they're mps who are black, ethnic minority orjewish tend to get far more abuse than white women mps, and i'm very aware that by doing this interview i'm probably lining up quite a few trolls to come and greet me on social media over

the next couple of days. really, so you have a sense that just from doing this and speaking out about this kind of abuse, you're likely to attract yet more abuse? absolutely, i don't doubt that women mps who then start to speak out about their abuse suddenly become a target for more trolls, but the point is that some of us have to speak out. cat agrees with simon hart that the 2017 campaign was unusually unpleasant. but she has a very different idea of who was responsible. what we saw from the conservative party during the election was the singling out of, let's be honest, diane abbott, and some of the very personal attacks i think bordered on the racist during the conservative party's official campaign, and this is in line with what happened in the london mayoral election, where zac goldsmith's official campaign, i think, was bordering on the racist against sadiq khan. so are you saying that

the conservative party has officially sanctioned racist campaigning against people like sadiq khan and diane abbott? i think when the conservative party campaign, official campaign, is using the wolf whistle politics that they did use, it almost gives permission for people who are racists online to take that a step further and use the kind of threatening language which we've seen directed at sadiq khan and diane abbott. conservative caroline ansell lost her seat in the ultra—marginal constituency of eastbourne, after a hard—fought campaign at the 2017 election. she is particularly worried that certain political perspectives are being suffocated by abusive and threatening language online. give us a sense of how frequently you would receive comments online, or messages that you would consider to be abusive.

well, continuously. you know, you post a comment and then it can create a feeding frenzy of people who seem to be just waiting for you to have the temerity to talk about a success that you've managed to come through, or someone that you've championed, just that sort of instant backlash. and that can be all the way through from just trying to sort of demoralise or diminish or discredit, all the way through to, you know, very hostile comments and abuse and threats. and as a campaigning politician on the right of politics, do you ever feel hesitant to express opinions online, because of a fear of the backlash that you might get? i guess i have had a moment, if you moments where i've, you know, paused over posts, because i know what will surely follow. but, actually, the experience i've had has made me more determined to step out, more determined to speak up, and i think that's, you know, really and truly the only forward. you cannot be dismayed by it, you need to fight them for something that's really important, and that's freedom of speech.

but caroline has experience of something more serious than just abusive comments. one man used facebook to issue a sinister threat. yeah, a local man, essentially he said he'd kill me. he said he knew where i lived, he said he had a knife, and he was very angry about a vote in parliament, and if i persisted, then he'd find me. he was arrested and tried and convicted, and spent time in prison. do you think there's something about the tone of political debate at the moment that made that guy think it was somehow 0k to issue that kind of thread? well, yes. the man was subsequently released, but on the day of our interview, caroline said that the same man was once again posting abusive remarks about our online. —— about her. back at westminster, labour mp rupa huq told us about an incident at the 2015 election where campaigning got physical, but she also explained how certain hot button issues can attract the worst kind of vitriol.

abortion, that kind of thing, is one of them, that it will inflame people. also, the middle east. i mean, it seems a long way from ealing and acton to israel and palestine. jewish mps also have been subject to awful abuse, and i think, you know, probably muslim women get it more, as well. rupa rejects any suggestion that the rise in the abuse is exclusively down to activists on the left. i mean, i think that this is a sort of smear campaign against us, really, because, you know, the things on social media, i think any kid going to look at a pop video on youtube would have seen stuff about jeremy corbyn being a terrorist sympathiser, all these things they were trying to pin on him, which was not true. the government has recently asked the committee for standards in public life to interrogate this issue, and to make recommendations about how it can be tackled. lord bew is the committee's chair. we have a mood surrounding a normal operation of parliamentary

democracy, which is not the normal british mood. that's the problem. there are different interpretations, or what the balance is, or who is suffering the most, and so on, but the really interesting thing is across the parties in westminster, nobody is actually saying this is an imaginary, got up thing. it's slightly reminds me, i'm old enough to remember the period before the troubles began, and actually the tone of some of those things is actually quite similar, eerily significant to some of the things that we've been talking about in the press in recent weeks. so you've said that we might be approaching a tipping point in public life. yeah... can you say a bit about what you meant by that? well, i mean, when i talk about a tipping point, i mean that it becomes commonplace, and we accept that this, i hope, temporary spike upwards in recent times of abuse and intimidatory rhetoric and practice towards people seeking public office, that we come to accept this as the norm. and one of the issues

here is the possibility that the volume of abuse is not neutral in its effects, that it is actually tending to intimidate certain types of people and reduce diversity in our public life. but the thing i think above all i want to say is that we do accept that a characteristic of british political debate is its vigour, and it's sometimes very strident. strident and vigorous political debate is not something that should be policed. we have a strong understanding of the fact that the vitality of the british political debate is something that we want to protect here. when you discuss this issue with politicians on the right, it usually isn't long before the left—wing campaign group momentum is mentioned. we wanted to get their perspective. i think across politics there has been a rise in abusive language, and it's a serious issue, and i think as an organisation, momentum sees that all political organisations need to work together to combat this problem. when we talk to politicians on the right, particularly

conservative mps, very often when they're talking about abusive language being used online, they mention momentum. why do you think it is that they do that? i mean, they may mention it, but none of these politicians have made any complaints to us as an organisation, they haven't presented us with any evidence. we have a very, very clear code of ethics, which sets out the rules for all momentum members, and they sign that when they become members, and ifany of them break that, we have procedures to deal with that. so, you know, if there is evidence of momentum members being involved in such activity, we take that very seriously. and what action do you take when it's proven to be the case that a momentum member has engaged in abusive language online? we have very, very, very few cases of this, but we have a procedure we follow to ensure that, if a member does that, then they will be suspended or expelled from the organisation. it's hard to know for sure what's going on here. one recent study found that fully 50% of all abusive tweets directed at politicians were targeted at a small group of very high

profile individuals, withjeremy corbyn himself receiving the highest number overall. the same study also found that male conservatives were the group most likely to receive abusive tweets, although, importantly, those with a high profile attract more abuse, and there are significantly more high—profile men in politics than women, so we shouldn't read too much into that. most people we've spoken to ultimately acknowledge that this is a problem that affects all parts of the political spectrum. but the choice now facing our elected representatives is whether they allow this to become yet another party political squabble, or whether in very divided times, enough unity can be found to face the problem head—on. all main political parties say there is no place for intimidation, harassment or bullying. later in the programme, we'll speak to some newly elected mps about their experiences over the last month.

is one viewer says: i feel despised and hated by mps. fiona: threats and violence have no place. another viewer says: the if you don't believe me then you are an enemy type of politics is fuelling it. john says: it is hard to empathise 01’ john says: it is hard to empathise or offer sympathy to mps when they are renowned for being a litres, and once elected, quietly ignoring the will of the people. later, we will talk to the newly

elected mps about their experiences. kensington and chelsea town were warned in 2010 that is building a school next to the tower could block access for fire service vehicles. and: reports that an antidepressant could have played a role in one of america's worst shootings. now, the news headlines with ben. new diesel and petrol cars are to be banned from 20110, as part of efforts to tackle air pollution. the move will be announced by the government this morning, heralding a shift to all—electric vehicles, which now account for only about 1% of the market. there'll also be a fund of £255 million to help local councils speed up efforts to combat emissions from diesel vehicles. environment secretary michael gove said the change is needed to tackle climate change. we have to get rid of petrol and

diesel cars from the roads to make sure that we deal not only with their health problems that air pollution causes, but to meet climate change targets. volvo and mini are moving in this way. it is critically important that we provide the encouragement from government to help the car industry do the right thing. the high courtjudge overseeing the case of the terminally ill baby charlie gard will decide today whether the child's parents can take him home to die. doctors at great 0rmond street hospital say that, in the interest of his care, he should stay where he is or be moved to a hospice. his parents have appealed for a specialist doctor to come forward so he can spend his final hours at home. thejudge leading the inquiry into the grenfell tower fire has told survivors he would "get to the bottom" of the tragedy during a second public meeting shouting broke out as residents expressed their anger ahead of the final consultation on what the investigation should cover.

also this programme has learned that kensington and chelsea council were warned as early as 2010 that a new secondary school at the base of the tower could block access to emergency vehicles. at least 10,000 people, including british holiday—makers, were moved to save 30 —— moved to safety last night to escape rapidly spreading forest fires. the fires have broken up forest fires. the fires have broken u p west forest fires. the fires have broken up west of st tropez, and campsites have been evacuated. princess diana's brother has said he was lied to about prince william and prince harry saying they wanted to walk behind their mother's coffin. the funeral procession, he said, was the

most horrifying half an hour of his life. he was speaking as the 20th anniversary of her death approaches in august. that's a summary of the latest bbc news — more at 10.00. some more messages from you about the kind of abuse that politicians received. this one says: the rise in abuse at the tax goes hand—in—hand with unfulfilled expectations and a great sense of entitlement. politicians need to realise that things are as they are, so get a grip on tempers and calm down. jane says: i would like to point out it is not just says: i would like to point out it is notjust mps who suffer abuse. their staff usually pick up the m essa 9 es their staff usually pick up the messages and have to deal with the often vile comments. ian says: i don't condone any racist nonviolent comments against anyone, but the recent issue about mps' pay causes legitimate concerns about their

professionalism. —— racist and violent. here's some sport now with hugh. adam peaty continues to push the boundaries in a swimming pool. the olympic champion beat his own world record in the 50—metre breaststroke twice in one day, breaking the 26—second mark for the first time. he goes in the final today looking to set an even faster time. former 0lympic long jump champion greg rutherford says he's devastated that he'll miss next week's world championships in london because of an ankle injury. there's been more criticism of the rugby football union's decision not to renew the contracts for all of england's women's15—a—side players. the shadow sports minister, dr rosena allin—khan, has written to chief executive ian ritchie expressing her "deep concern". and chelsea's record signing alvaro morata made his debut for his new club yesterday. he set up this goal, but couldn't stop them going down 3—2 in a preseason match against bayern munich. that is all the sport for now. i

will be back just that is all the sport for now. i will be backjust after 10am. the economy grew by 0.3% during the second quarter of this year, according to the office for national statistics. that just according to the office for national statistics. thatjust in. kensington and chelsea council was warned as early as 2010 that building a new school at the base of grenfell tower could block access to fire trucks and other emergency vehicles. that's according to documents seen exclusively by this programme. fire fighters have said that during the blaze "access was an issue" with "huge difficulties" getting past parked cars. 0ur reporterjim reed has this story. jim. this goes back almost a decade, to 2008, and plans to build this school here. this is kensington academy, right at the foot of grenfell tower itself. it has a capacity of 1000.

we wa nt itself. it has a capacity of 1000. we want to show you satellite photos that give you an idea of how a building that school change the area. it takes a while to take in, but this is a top— down view of the site. this is the roof of grenfell tower before the fire. this large building here is the academy. this isa building here is the academy. this is a leisure centre that was also rebuilt as part of these plans, and this would have been one of the access routes this would have been one of the a ccess routes for this would have been one of the access routes for firefighters that day, you would have thought. let's look back to see how this area changed. in 2013, you can see, this is when the building work was taking place. it was a large development, a lot of money going into it. if we look back further at how the whole area would have looked before in 2010, this gives you an idea of why residents were upset about this. this car park was demolished to make way for the academy. first, this

could have prevented emergency vehicles getting to the site more directly. and by losing these parking spaces, they said a lot of ca rs we re parking spaces, they said a lot of cars were pushed into the surrounding roads, and that could have also made it more difficult for emergency vehicles to get through. we know the academy was built anyway, wasn't it? that's right. it openedin anyway, wasn't it? that's right. it opened in 2014. a lot of resistance to this academy. 318 letters, we understand, opposing the construction, and just two in support. lots of the residents we spoke to felt that the whole area was congested anyway, and they were going to lose green space as well as that car park as part of these plans, and it could potentially stop emergency vehicles reaching the site easily. we have been passed a letter written to the council in 2010 by someone on the grenfell action group, the residents' committee which looks after the error. it says: —— that looks after the area.

clearly, there were concerns ahead of the construction of the academy building. on the night of the blaze itself? we know it was busy, chaotic. 45 engines attended at one point, 200 firefighters, and then the other emergency vehicles on top of that. people we have spoken to are saying, look, access was a particular issue on the night. we spoke to lucy masoud, a senior official at the fire brigades union, and she spoke to us about the huge

difficulties, as she puts it, faced by some firefighters trying to get to the tower that night. the streets around here are quite narrow. add to thatis around here are quite narrow. add to that is that there were cars parked, it certainly was an issue for us. at the start of the incident, when our fire engines arrived, we needed access to the dry riser, which is where we set in and produce water for the building. we know that we had access problems there. what sort of problems? cars and bar lives? absolutely. 0ne of problems? cars and bar lives? absolutely. one of the main issues was getting past the parked cars. the roads are quite narrow around here, and then there are cars parked, getting our five engines is close to the building as they need to be to access water and get our firefighters into the building as quickly as possible, whenever is an access issue, it has a huge impact on our ability to fight the fire. 0ur firefighters were having to go

into the building is six or seven times, when legally we are only allowed to go into my fire twice the cause of the impact on our bodies, so we we re cause of the impact on our bodies, so we were giving in half a dozen time because of the resources. bollards were supposed to be able to retract, but they weren't, they were permanent. that would have given us more room to get closer to the building. the green spaces have been built over with various buildings, and that affected our ability to get our fire and that affected our ability to get ourfire engines here. and that affected our ability to get our fire engines here. lucy masoud from the fire brigades union. the union now say it once access included in the enquiry. eyewitnesses were critical, because of what they saw one the night. interestingly similar accounts from eyewitnesses to the account you just heard from lucy. just after the fire, we both spoke to lucy

we both spoke to mahad, a resident and an eyewitness. we were the first few people, and we saw the fire brigade and emergency services. we thought it could be tackled, that half the building wouldn't be affected. though what bollards that we re affected. though what bollards that were blocking — — affected. though what bollards that were blocking —— vert there where pollard is blocking the access. that account came a few hours after the fire, so mahad would not have been able to read newspapers or watch tv news reports. 0ther eyewitnesses we spoke to had similar accounts. yesterday, we spoke to a reverend in

one of the churches near the site of the fire, and he said he saw at least one car that had to be dragged away by the fire brigade to allow them access to the site, so more indications that access was some sort of issue that night. and what do the council and the fire service say? we asked the council to come on the programme, but they said, we don't think it is right to make comments until the issue has been discussed with the police and the enquiry. the london fire brigade, distinct from the union, have said, it is inevitable and not all resources will be able to park next to the scene of a fire, so we have procedures to make sure that cruise can be rotated in and out as quickly as possible. breaking news: the communities secretary has announced more details of the independent g re nfell more details of the independent grenfell recovery more details of the independent g re nfell recovery task more details of the independent grenfell recovery task force. this is the group that will look at the long—term recovery of the area, so what happens to the site itself. are the right procedures in place for

people who live in the local area? javed khan, the chief executive of barnardo's has been appointed, jim scott, the leader of wiltshire council. the leader of the west midlands police advisory group, people like that. they will meet in the next few weeks, and the communities secretary wants a first report by october this year. thank you very much, jim. we can speak now to tony morris who's a retired fire fighter and emergency planner. 0ver over 30 years, i think, as a firefighter. 15 years as the senior emergency planning officer. in your view, what impact it restricted access have on firefighters' ability to tackle the blaze? i think it would have been significant. clearly, time is, in attacking the fire and rescue people, is critical. any delay really hampers the

efforts, and it increases the energy expended by firefighters having to return longer distances to collect equipment from vehicles and so on. return longer distances to collect equipment from vehicles and so onlj wonder if you think perhaps the public enquiry should be widened in order to look at changes to the g re nfell order to look at changes to the grenfell site over the years and how that affected the response on the night. definitely. i responded to the consultation on the terms of reference and are included in that the need to look at everything from the need to look at everything from the original building construction through to what has happened since, what changes have been made, both to the building and around the building, because changes do tend to get made that don't take full account of fire service access. thank you very much, tony morris, who was a retired firefighter and emergency planner. still to come...

we'll be live at the supreme court as the public service union unison finds out if it's won its legal challenge against the increase in fees for those bringing employment tribunals and appeals. £1200 costs at the moment and they say it is way too much. we will bring you that news live as it happens. a bbc panorama investigation has found 60 reports of murder or thoughts of murder associated with antidepressants have been received by the uk medicines regulator in the last three decades. the medicines and healthcare products regulatory agency says the reports don't necessarily mean the drugs caused the events. the investigation has also found evidence that suggests an antidepressant may have played a role in one of america's worst mass shootings, when a 24—year—old man with no history of violence shot dead 12 people at a cinema screening of batman in the us state of colorado. now a year—long investigation by the bbc is claiming there may be

a link betweenjames holmes' actions and the anti—depressa nts he was taking. panorama: a prescription for murder? is on bbc one tonight at 9pm. let's take a quick look. panorama has learned that in preparation for the trial two years ago, the defence brought a uk based psychiatrist to evaluate the evidence and meet holm is in prison. became too controversial in conclusion. i believe if he hadn't taken the sertraline, he wouldn't have murdered anyone. but his evidence was never tested in court it up panorama has scrutinised what happened after james holds it up panorama has scrutinised what happened afterjames holds took the drug. and no book he wrote provide some clues. holds wrote in his notebook how his obsession with killing default. it tends —— intense

aversion of people, cause unknown, it began, suppressed by greater fear of others. and after he started taking sertraline, no more fear, hatred and checked, starts small, by a stun gun and knife. by handgun. simon is a psychiatrist. the antidepressant james hanson is taking at the time of the attack has held many and there was no evidence linking into homicide. over 40 million prescriptions for ssri anti—depressants were handed out by doctors last year in the uk. a freedom of information request has revealed the uk medicines regulator received 60 reports claiming there was a link between antidepressants and cases of murder and murderous thoughts over the past three decades. one of britain's leading psychiatrists is calling for more research into the extreme side effects of the medication,

including psychosis and violence. but other leading medical professionals say there is no good evidence that antidepressants increase the risk of violent behaviour, and extremely rare cases could be explained by chance. let's talk to leonie fennell. her son shane killed his ex—girlfriend's boyfriend and then himself in 2009. she blames the antidepressants he was on at the time, though there is no evidence that that is the case. kirk brandon claims he experienced murderous thoughts while he was on antidepressants in the 1990s. ryanjames has been taking medication for more than a decade. he says it has saved his life. also here is the immediate past president of the royal college of psychiatrists, professor simon wessely. welcome to all of you. i'm going to start with leone. tell us what shame was like before you started taking

antidepressants. shane was 22 and was going into his final year in college. he was happy, good—humoured, handsome. he had everything going for him. he was very kind, he loved his younger brothers and sister. shane was no different than anybody else. his lecturers knew him as the irish word for the big heart to talk that explains what he was like before he died. tell us what tell us what happened after he started taking antidepressants. 17 days after taking the antidepressant, he had split up with his girlfriend so he had gone to wear his ex—girlfriend of. she stabbed her new boyfriend and he died, and then he injured his ex—girlfriend and her new

boyfriend's brother and then he went out into the back garden and stabbed himself 19 times and he died. that was 17 days after starting the antidepressant. and you believe, clearly, there is a big link?|j antidepressant. and you believe, clearly, there is a big link? i have no doubt there was a link. i have no doubt if shane hadn't been on the antidepressant, he wouldn't be dead now and either with the other young man. let me bring in kirk. you an antidepressants for just under a year, i think? ten months. can you relate to some of what leonie has described with shane? yes, i can. 0ut described with shane? yes, i can. out of nowhere... i was only on it for ten months but you get incredible feelings of rage that just turn up out of the blue, just sitting watching the tv or whatever you are doing, and i'm not really a violent guy. you are doing, and i'm not really a viole nt guy. i you are doing, and i'm not really a violent guy. i knew that this was coming from somewhere really strange, and i put it principally

and totally down to the drug, so rocks at. it is my belief that it is a very rocks at. it is my belief that it is a very dangerous rocks at. it is my belief that it is a very dangerous drug and although many tens of millions take it, there are many thousands where it goes wrong and they will either do violence to themselves or kill themselves. i think the medical authorities should really seriously look again at ssris, in particular the one i took that they should look at these things again. as you rightly say, millions of people take that particular antidepressants. there are various brands that if we described them as ssris. and ryan, you have a very different experience. yeah, it is horrible to hear about the other stories but my experience can only be described as positive and that's since i was 14, 15, when i was first prescribed them andl 15, when i was first prescribed them and i was on citalopram. positive in

what way? the general effect, i really noticed the difference in how it changed howl really noticed the difference in how it changed how i was feeling about myself and my situation. i know there were conversations with parents and doctors before i was put on anything because i was quite young and i know even day today now, they i do believe help me get out of bed in the morning. kirk, what is your recollection of the worst point in that 10—month period when you we re in that 10—month period when you were on it? once i started taking it, ientered were on it? once i started taking it, i entered another reality and it wasn't a very pleasant one. the rage, really ugly stuff. probably the hardest bit was, my sister is a psychiatric nurse and she said, it is most probably the drug, because

they have a lot of trouble with it in the psych wards. i said i would go cold turkey on it, which is what idid, and go cold turkey on it, which is what i did, and i realised i was seriously addicted. this stuff was incredibly addictive and that was harrowing, to tell you the truth. it was harrowing. i wouldn't wish that anyone. that was the hardest bit, coming off it. that's interesting. let me read to messages from people who are watching you around the country. dan says antidepressants interfere with your humanity, no surprise they can make your aggressive. italy says, antidepressants don't make you violent. playmate suppressed anxiety about already being a psychopath but they don't make them. and i was abroad, grandad was put on one ssri

and he turned wild and then to grabbing man around the throat. as a psychiatrist, professors and westley, what is the view of the link between murder or murderous thoughts and violence, ? link between murder or murderous thoughts and violence,? people do do research in this area. antidepressants have been around for 40 yea rs. antidepressants have been around for 40 years. billions of people in this country and war around the world have been taking them so we have a goodidea have been taking them so we have a good idea what the side effects are. it is difficult because i have been meeting with people who have been affected by suicide or homicide and i don't think you ever get over it died ofa i don't think you ever get over it died of a guy can talk about individual cases. last time i was on this programme was to talk about the rise to the present prescribing, which has been going up very steadily for 25 years. last year 66 million work prescribed in england and wales. at the same time, suicide rates over the same period have been

gradually decreasing, except in times of austerity and depression. if there was a link at an individual level with that amount of prescribing going up, you would see different suicide rates, so i think people will probably understand that even a fairly small link, given about 11 cents of the population on these drugs, you would have seen an increase in suicide as well. so i think overall professional opinion is that the benefits of antidepressants outweigh the risks. and bearing that in mind, taking that time accepting that, of course that time accepting that, of course that does not discount these individual examples. it certainly doesn't. kirk has pointed out one of the problems of the antidepressants is that if you do go cold turkey, that's not a good idea. anyone who is going to watch this programme tonight or is watching stanley was thinking as a result of this that you should just come off antidepressants, that is really not antidepressants, that is really not a good idea and you can get unpleasant symptoms. you can do it

slowly. can i say one thing? seroxat is made by a company called glaxosmithkline. 0n the packet, it said, this drug is not addictive. i would beg to differ. obviously, the drugs company are not here to give their own side of the story. drugs company are not here to give their own side of the storylj drugs company are not here to give their own side of the story. i think it is more withdrawal symptoms that people get and some people find them very difficult and have great problems coming off drugs so people who are thinking of stopping antidepressants, they should remember, first of all, don't do it a bru ptly remember, first of all, don't do it abruptly and second, there is a genuine risk of relapse and depressive illness and that is incontrovertible and potentially serious so you really should think very carefully if you watch this programme tonight, which sounds a little difficult, before you do that. those are absolute certainties. you can get withdrawal symptoms and you can have a relapse

of your illness. of the rest, i have to say most professionals are not particularly convinced. thank you very much. thank you all for coming in on the programme. the programme tonight is on bbc one at 9pm, bbc panorama, and the drugs companies say millions and millions of people across the world have been helped by ssris. let me bring you this breaking news to do with the challenge that unison brought against what they said were expensive fees for workers to take a case for an employment tribunal. the supreme court has agreed to adopt unison has won has challenged those fees, 1200 quid to take a case to an employment tribunal. the court found that the fees order, which introduced fees in 2013 for claimants bringing claims, is unlawful in both domestic and eu law because it has the effect of preventing access to justice. so the

supreme court says that unison's challenge to these fees means that the fees will have to go because it is unlawful. much more reaction to that to come in the next half hour of the programme. the latest news and sport in a second but before that, the weather. heavy rain has been moving steadily towards the east as we've gone through the course of this morning. some lovely weather watchers pictures. it was a dumb start in devon with a lot of cloud but as we push further east, it was drier but now the cloud is building and these pictures are courtesy of our weather watchers. you can see the amount of rainfall we have had. it has moved out of northern ireland, continuing across scotland and north—west england, extending through wales, down towards the isle of wight, and thatis down towards the isle of wight, and that is going to be pushing steadily eastwards through day, eventually clearing off into the north sea, so behind it across northern england, a

mixture of sunshine and showers but from the washed through east anglia, kent, the midlands down towards the isle of wight, still rain about it any more patchy in nature. in the south—west of england, it will dry up south—west of england, it will dry up after this morning's rain, the same for wales. still some rain around at the moment, that clears eastwards and the sun will come out brightening up already across northern ireland but there are still a few showers dotted around. behind the rain in scotland, bright spells, sunshine and showers. by 4pm the ring will be and is constantly northern isles. through the evening and overnight, the rain moves away from 0rkney and shetland. there will bea from 0rkney and shetland. there will be a lot of dry weather but we also looking at a lot of showers across western scotland and northern ireland, north—west england, wales on the south—west and it is not going to be particularly cold, towns and cities staying in double figures. the reason for all the showers of this area of low pressure edging closer towards the

north—west. you can see from the squeeze on the isobars it is also going to be windy. touching gale force with exposure around the coasts, north—west scotland, and the coastal northern ireland, quite possible. the showers merging to give longer spells of rain. you could hear the odd clap of thunder and see the odd hailstone but for the rest of the british isles, a day of bright spells, sunshine and showers and you know the drill with showers, not all of us will catch one. 15 in the north to highs of 20 in the south. as we head through the rest of thursday and into friday, if anything the low pressure is dragged anything the low pressure is dragged a bit further north westwards but still the squeeze on that isobars denote that it is going to be a breezy day, particularly close to the centre of low pressure, where the centre of low pressure, where the squeeze is the tightest. again, showers squeezing across scotland, some across northern england to talk a lot of dry weather across the course of the day to talk if you have outdoor plans, this may change.

that has been oscillating this morning northwards and southwards so we think it is coming across parts of the south and south—west, possibly parts of south wales, temperature is up to 20 wanted up by friday and into saturday, we have that rain scooting across southern counties as a showery future and we are back into sunshine and showers. hello, it's 10 o'clock. i'm victoria derbyshire. is the culture of abuse towards mps com pletely is the culture of abuse towards mps completely out of control? mps from all parties have been telling us about the type of intimidating and bullying messages they receive. caroline ansell is as bad as isis and hitler. kat smith should be lynched. you talibanic expletive! tory scum. eat expletive in hell, you tory witch. get out of my country, you ugly, racist expletive! ugly, smelly, muslim vermin. tory scum. we will talk to one newly elected mp

who said the 2017 general election was the most abusive and vindictive campaign he has ever been involved sperm count has halved in the last 40 years. of the linked to reduced sperm count. smoking has an effect. and like of physical activity, stress, all of these factors that are also associated with poor health are factors that affect sperm production. and should the law be changed to make elderly drivers reta ke changed to make elderly drivers retake their test? we are asking because the number of people over 90

who hold a driving licence has reached the 100,000 mark for the first time. we will ask drivers what they think. here's ben brown in the bbc newsroom with a summary of today's news. new diesel and petrol cars are to be banned from 2040, as part of efforts to tackle air pollution. it heralds a move to all electric vehicles which currently only account for 1% of the market. there will also be a fund ‘s of over £200 million to help. michael gove said the ban is needed to tackle climate change. we have to get rid of petrol and diesel ca rs off have to get rid of petrol and diesel cars off our roads of we want to make sure that we want to deal with their health problems that ebb pollution causes and to meet our climate change targets. the good news is that the car industry is already moving in this direction. volvo and many are both moving in

this direction, and we have to as a government help the car industry do the right thing. the supreme court is to rule on a challenge to the increase in fees for employment tribunal. the legal battle is a challenge to the fees brought injune 2013 in tribunals, which range from £390 to £1600. the office of national statistics said the economy grew by 0.3% in the last quarter. the increase is credited to the services sector. the high courtjudge overseeing the case of the terminally ill baby charlie gard will decide today whether the child's parents can take him home to die. doctors at great 0rmond street hospital say that, in the interest of his care, he should stay where he is or be moved to a hospice. his parents have appealed

for a specialist doctor to come forward so he can spend his final hours at home. thejudge leading the inquiry into the grenfell tower fire has told survivors he would "get to the bottom" of the tragedy during a second public meeting. shouting broke out as residents expressed their anger ahead of the final consultation on what the investigation should cover. a final meeting will be held tonight on the scope of the investigation. at least 80 people were killed in the blaze. princess diana's brother says he was like two about prince william and prince harry wanting to walk behind their mother's coffin. in an interview with the today programme, he said it was a bizarre and cruel thing for the princes to do. he also said the funeral procession was the most horrifying half an hour of his life. he was speaking as the 20th anniversary of her death approaches in august. i really wasn't thinking

about the outside world, but it was impossible not to connect with the emotion coming from the crowd. it was so powerful. pulsing through us, i think. it was so bizarre, the sort of crunching of our procession with the horses and carriage, and our footsteps, and then the incredible, crashing emotion coming in from every side. it was really horrifying. at least 10,000 people, including british holiday—makers, were moved to safety in the south of france during the night to escape rapidly spreading fires. a new blaze has broken out west of st tropez. a number of campsites on the coast have been evacuated. more from mere 10:30am. thanks for your comments. we will

talk to newly elected mps who have only been in the job for a month about the abuse they have experienced during the election campaign. 0ne experienced during the election campaign. one was elected this year and one was elected in 2015. andy on facebook: sadly, mps only have themselves to blame. it is hypocritical when they attack each other in the press. their behaviour pmqs is disgusting. also, in light of current events, you have to question their competence. charming! tim says: perhaps if mps behaved with more respect and civility in the house of commons they might be treated with the same. ian says: ian says... i read this one earlier. if you are getting in touch, use the hashtag victoria

life. now, sport. adam peaty, what a week it has been for himself. he was left stunned by his own performances as he continues to set the standard notjust his own performances as he continues to set the standard not just the great britain but for the whole world in the swimming pool. the 0lympic world in the swimming pool. the olympic champion beat his own world record twice in a single day, and he broke the 26—2nd mark for the first time. he goes into the final today looking to set an even faster time. this morning, i went 26.1, and i thought it would be hard to beat that. tonight, iwas thought it would be hard to beat that. tonight, i was like, thought it would be hard to beat that. tonight, iwas like, get yourself up for it, do what you do. i will not waste an opportunity because i do not know if it will be my last. i just went out there and did what i do. james guy couldn't defend his world title in the 200—metre freestyle final. he finished in fifth, just behind fellow briton duncan scott. china's sun yang took gold.

today there are seven brits in individualfinal action, including scott who goes again in the 100—metre freestyle later this morning. manchester united manager jose mourinho says that some clubs are paying far too much for players this summer. his team, of course, spent 75 million on romelu lukaku earlier this month. last summer, they spent 89 million on paul pogba but the united boss believes smaller clubs are overspending. we spent a lot of money on the striker, and if we don't do that, we have no striker. that is obvious nowadays, especially for the strikers, the amount of money is amazing. every club is getting players, investing a lot. some clubs, obviously, they are paying too much, and by doing that, they create a very strange and out—of—control market, but this is a reality now. england's cricketers will look to regain the series lead when they face south africa

in the third test at the oval which starts tomorrow. they'll have debutant tom westley in the side, who comes in to replace the injured gary ballance. the essex batsman will be making his england debut at the age of 28. it has probably started to sink in now. it has been a surreal few days. it is just the now. it has been a surreal few days. it isjust the build—up, really. come thursday, i will be nervous, as expected, but i think the challenge for me is to replicate what i have been doing for essex, and hopefully do that for england. british cycling has influenced nearly three quarters of a million women, who weren't cycling previously, to get on a bike since 2013. the sport's governing body says it's well on it's way to reaching its target to get! million more women cycling by 2020, but two times olympic gold medallist joanna rowsell shand says some women are still put off taking up riding. road safety — that comes up all the time. fear of riding in a group comes up quite a lot, so some people feel that they are ok by themselves, but ina feel that they are ok by themselves, but in a group, what if they can't

keep up, there are a bit wobbly, things like that? bike mechanics comes up all the time, that fear of, what if i get a puncture or something happens on my bike? how do i deal with that? if you are something happens on my bike? how do ideal with that? if you are in a group, what if the group has to wait for me, if i'm too slow... and a quick reminder — if you do fancy picking up cycling or any other sport, go to the get inspired page on the bbc sport website to help. mps from all parties have been shedding light on the scale of abuse they receive. many say that in last month's general election, it was off the scale. an inquiry into the issue was announced by the standards watchdog earlier in july, and began its consultation this week. 0ur reporterjohn 0wn has been investigating the type of abuse they receive — we bought you his full report earlier — here's a short extract clip. caroline ansell is as bad as isis and hitler. kat smith should be lynched. you talibanic expletive! tory scum. ugly, smelly, muslim vermin.

here at westminster, a lot of people are afraid that in the recent turbulence, the nature of the political conversation may have changed for the worse. mps have told this programme about an emerging culture of abuse and intimidation in public life. this was the most abusive and vindictive campaign most of us have been involved with. abusive and vindictive campaign most of us have been involved withm should never be part of the job to receive this level of abuse. all of them told us they had received some abuse online, ranging from the quite trivial to the very x screen —— the very extreme. they all agree that in the last few years things have become worse. simon hart has been trying to further light on this problem, and he mainly blames activists on the left for the deterioration in the quality of debate. they are more active, there

is more evidence of activity, in this election orchestrated from the than left from the right. it was not exclusively like that, i emphasise. do you think there has been a change in the character of left—wing activism in the last few years that you would say is responsible for the rise in this type of language? that would be how it appears to me. on the other end of the spectrum, labour's kat smith, a member of the shadow cabinet and a close ally of jeremy corbyn, has a different story to tell. what we saw from the tory party during the election was the singling out of, let's be honest, diane abbott, and some of the very personal attacks, i think, diane abbott, and some of the very personalattacks, ithink, bordered on the racist. are you saying the conservative party has officially sanctioned race is campaigning against people like sadiq khan and diane abbott? i think when they campaign —— i think when the

official campaign is using the wolf whistle politics that they did use, it almost gives permission for people who are racist online to take a step furtherand people who are racist online to take a step further and use the kind of threatening language we have seen directed at sadiq khan and diane abbott. conservative caroline ansell lost her seat in the ultra—marginal consistency of —— constituency of eastbourne after a hard —fought campaign in the election. you post a comment, and it can create a feeding frenzy for people who seem to be just waiting for you to have the temerity to talk about a success that you have managed to come through. do you feel hesitant to express opinions because of a fear ofa express opinions because of a fear of a backlash you might get? i guess i have had a moment, if you moments where i've, you know, paused over posts, because i know what will surely follow. the government has recently asked the committee for standards

in public life to interrogate this issue, and to make recommendations about how it can be tackled. lord bew is the committee's chair. democracy. there are different interpretations, or what the balance is, or who is suffering the most, and so on, but the really interesting thing is across the parties in westminster, nobody is actually saying this is an imaginary, got up thing. we're going to talk to three mps in the moment but first we're going to the moment but first we're going to the supreme court to to clive coleman. unison has won its case against the fees you have to pay to ta ke against the fees you have to pay to take a case to tribunal. this is an absolutely huge judgment not just for unison but for anyone who has taken an employment tribunal claim within the last... sincejuly 2013 when these fees came in and they are pretty hefty fees, so in a simple case they will amount to

something like £390, in a more complex case 1200, if you want to appeal a further £1600 and today the supreme court has unanimously ruled that these fees are unlawful because they have the effect of preventing access to justice and, in addition to that, they have also ruled unanimously that they are indirectly discriminatory in that, for instance, they discredit against women because a higher proportion of women because a higher proportion of women bring the more complex type of claims. this is huge. it also means that the government, who have given an undertaking to pay back all of these fees, we think something of a region of £32 million worth of these, should they be found to have acted unlawfully, they have to now repay that money. with me as dave prentis, general secretary of union would unison, which brought this claim. pumas be thrilled. we really are to take thiss' work. we knew that these fees were unlawful from the beginning because these take

low—paid, vulnerable workers and prevent them on having access to justice. in doing that, this government has acted according to the supreme court, not only broken common law but the constitutional law of the united kingdom. it is even broken the 1215 magna carta as well as european union law. this is an absolutely tremendous victory, probably the biggest victory of a court in the whole history of employment rights in this country. and, of course, it means that the people who have made claims will get their money back but, of course, many people would have been put off bringing claims at all. this is the terrible part of it because we knew from day one that this was notjust unlawful but immoral, that low—paid workers could be put in this position and be denied access to justice. small amount involved but it may include racial discrimination, sex discrimination, fair pay, it may be unfair deductions from wages, it may be not

having rest breaks, but vulnerable workers were having to pay £1200 just to get their case heard. they couldn't afford it, they couldn't go and there have been over those former careers many thousands of workers who may have been affected by this unlawful act. thank you very much indeed. there you have it, victoria. this is a very significant ruling and workers now across the country will know that they can bring a claim at an employment tribunal and it will not cost them any money. at the moment, those fees have been quashed. thank you, clive coleman, live from the supreme court and we will bring new reaction in the next few minutes. let's continue our conversation about mps and the kind of abuse they have been receiving. perhaps one woman who receives more abuse than any other politician is labour's home affairs spokesperson diane abbot. speaking in parliament recently she described the torrent of "mindless" racist and sexist abuse, including death threats, she's received.

we are not talking here about robust debate, however robust it is. we are talking about mindless abuse and, in my case, the mindless abuse has been characteristically racist and sexist. and just outline, i've had death threats, i've had people tweeting that i should be hung if, quit, they could find a tree big enough to take the fat... waits. there was an edl affiliated twitter account, bernd diane abbott, i have had rain threats, described as an ugly. had rain threats, described as an ugly, fat black... and over again, one of staff said that when people ask her, what is the most surprising thing about coming to work for me, the most surprising thing for her is how often she has to read the

word... and this comes in through e—mails, through twitter, through facebook. but where i disagree with the honourable gentleman — he seems to suggest that this is all a relatively recent thing around the time of the selection. that is not my experience, that really is not my experience. it is certainly true that the online abuse that i experience and others experience has got worse in recent years, and it does get worse at election time, but i don't put it down to a particular election. i think the rise in the use of online has turbo—charged abuse because 30 years ago when i first became an mp, if you wanted to attack an mp, you had to write a letter, usually in green ink, you had to put it in an envelope, you had to put it in an envelope, you had to put a stamp on it and you had to walk to the post box. now they

press a button and you read file abuse which 30 years ago people would have been frightened to even write down. so i accept that male politicians get abuse, too, but i hope the one thing we can bring in this chamber is that it is much worse for women and i think as well as the rise of online, anonymity is the thing. people would not come up tob the thing. people would not come up to band the thing. people would not come up to b and attack me for being a... in public. they will do it online and i am telling you, this is not once a week, this is notjeremy election, this is every day. my stuff switch ona this is every day. my stuff switch on a computer, go go on to twitter and see this stuff. we can talk now to two new mps and one relatively new mp — simon clarke was elected as the conservative mp for middlesbrough south and east cleveland last month. christine jardine, who was also elected this summer as the lib dem mp for edinburgh west.

and jess phillips, who was elected as the labour mp for birmingham yardley back in 2015 thank you very much for coming on the programme. simon, i'm going to read you a couple of messages that you have received. simon, f off, use sycophantic parasite. you have received. simon, f off, use sycopha ntic parasite. and you have received. simon, f off, use sycophantic parasite. and another one, at what point in your childhood did you decide to be evil? what impact does that have on you? well, they are certainly not the nicest things to receive and it is part of a litany of similar messages that i think mps of all parties have received during the course of this campaign but there is no question, as diane abbott was pointed out, this is not something which stops when the election goes away. it is, i'm afraid, part and parcel of modern politics and it is not something we should accept, it is something we should accept, it is something we should accept, it is something we must challenge, and those organisations which are

stoking it need to be pulled to account it and by that, you mean...? by account it and by that, you mean...? by that, i principally mean momentum. they are the grassroots group that supportjeremy corbyn. and you accept there are loads of groups, including groups on the right, as well, who target mps? that is certainly the case. no group has a monopoly on hatred and the bigotry and the intolerance and the vile abuse which mps of all parties have suffered is not something which any one suffered is not something which any u suffered is not something which any one group is solely responsible for, but i do believe that the way in which, if you like, the extraparliamentary which, if you like, the extra parliamentary left in british politics has been operating has dramatically worsened the tone of the debate and that's notjust online. is also the fact that... i mean, all but a handful of my post isa

mean, all but a handful of my post is a general election campaign were defaced or destroyed and i know that some of my colleagues had swastikas or faces carved out. some of my colleagues had swastikas orfaces carved out. i did not see that happening to my labour opponents. labour do have particular questions to answer on this question. adam taggart is for this party to a countertop jess question. adam taggart is for this party to a countertopjess phillips, you have had abuse from some labour supporters, essentially from momentum. i wouldn't say that it was specifically from momentum, as momentum organise, it is from members of the public who perhaps identify themselves as momentum all members of the labour party. i have no way of checking who is a member of which organisation. but i have received abuse from the left as much

asi received abuse from the left as much as i have from the right. i have also received abuse from the centre, so this goes all over and this has activists running into my election campaign of his shrieking at me, saying very sexist lines that are often use against me by right wing commentators, so i think that to say that it commentators, so i think that to say thatitis commentators, so i think that to say that it is any one group is not right to talk i'm just going to read a couple of messages that have been sent to you, and then i want you to tell our audience how it affects you and your family, because some tell our audience how it affects you and yourfamily, because some people think, it isjust and yourfamily, because some people think, it is just words on twitter, who cares? these are some of the things. i wouldn't even rain you, jess phillips. and another one, zionist filth like jess phillips have caused more damage in this world than anjem choudary and should be imprisoned. that's nice, isn't

it? the way that that makes me feel is tired, actually, is the reality. it makes me wonder why we bother doing all of the things that we do, and this is just doing all of the things that we do, and this isjust like, aren't mps absolutely amazing? but i work incredibly long hours, i'm away from my children and it just makes you feel like, what is it all for when all people can see — and sometimes it feels like all you get is abuse. it can be very demoralising. and my son goes on youtube, like all children go on youtube, and the kids in his class will look me up because they are interested in fact that i am an mp and what they see as a load of people talking about how they would or would not rape me. that makes feel pretty rough. christine, you are a brand—new mp and have been thejobjust over a month you are a brand—new mp and have been the job just over a month and already get abuse? yeah, but i agree with diane abbott. that is actually

not new. 0ne with diane abbott. that is actually not new. one of the worst periods, certainly in scottish politics, was during the independence referendum, when some of the abuse and intimidation that people were getting was as bad as anything we've seen. i think i've been lucky. i've had abuse, i've had nasty things said about me. you get false it up about you, but i haven't had to suffer anything like the scale of abuse that diane abbott has had... does what you've received, sorry to interrupt, have an effect on your confidence or your ability to do yourjob? i think it could have an affect on your confidence. i've been lucky in that after a particular incident, where it was extremely upsetting, i got support from members of all political parties. what was that incident? er, well, i like to think it started from the misunderstanding during the suspension of campaigning after the

manchester bombing, and an activist said on twitter that i had been out campaigning when, in fact, i have been my husband's funeral. that kind of grew arms and legs and it is the sort of thing that i think you can get on twitter because you have no means of regulating its. i'm not a great fan of regulation but if you we re great fan of regulation but if you were ina great fan of regulation but if you were in a radio, tv, newspaper newsroom and you want to say something like that about somebody, you would have to check it out and the lawyers would say, you can't say that in case it is not true. but on twitter, the point diana was making, people just go online and they think it is easy and i think they get pulled into thinking that they are anonymous, nobody is going to see it and they don't think about the impact it has on the person, on their confidence, on their family — it is very upsetting for their family — and i think all political parties have got to take

responsibility for it. there was no one party responsible. you can all ta ke one party responsible. you can all take responsibility, us politicians can be more civil to opponents and collea g u es can be more civil to opponents and colleagues in the house of commons and outside. what else is needed, simon? undoubtedly, we have a role to play. i think it is incumbent upon people to look into their own hearts and think about what they are doing. i campaigned with my colleague in redcar, and her speech was drowned out byjeremy corbyn supporters screaming corbyn, corbyn, over the top of her speech because she was seen to be disloyal. i think those people need to take a long, hard look at themselves, what they're doing, and whether they think that

is remotely acceptable. jess, what do you suggest? i look forward to taking part in the enquiry. i think the leaders of political parties need to call out specifically their allies who do this. when theresa may gets a allies who do this. when theresa may getsa bump allies who do this. when theresa may gets a bump because the papers print things about her opponents, instead of saying, that is not the tone of debate we should be having and i don't care if it helps me, and they shouldn't be perpetrating it. she shouldn't be perpetrating it. she should call that out. jeremy corbyn should call that out. jeremy corbyn should round up those people specifically and publicly who shouted and say, pack it in, this is not how we behave. the other thing we need to do is to reactivate love that only comes when politicians die. whenjo died, across the house,

no matter the party, everyone was saying what a great and brilliant woman she was, and that is right, but why do we only hear those things when someone's dead? we have to learn to be civil and show respect to the other side, but openly show respect. we have enough that divides us. there is a chasm between us, so we don't need to be hoping that people get abuse. a final thought from you, christine? there is a general culture that the parties need to be aware of, and we do need to also think about the way that quotes are used in the media, and just support one another. it is a good point about saying, we only seem to say nice things about people when they are no longer with us. i don't think that would do any harm, but we have to take responsibility for what is happening online and make it clear that we don't support it. we don't want it from our own activists. finally, would it ever

get to the point where the type of bullying, intimidation and abuse that you receive would be enough for you not to stand for election again? to be honest, it does affect me and makes me feel sad. you know, it gives me a power. it makes me realise we all have to make the world better, and it makes me stronger. simon? i completely agree. we won't give in, but it is depressing. that's the word i would use ‘ depressing. that's the word i would use — profoundly depressing. it will put good people off coming into parliament, and that is hugely regrettable. it won't stop me. christine? know, in many ways, it makes you more determined not to let those people win. i worry that it

will put good people off getting involved in politics. ok, thank you all, very much. as the number of drivers over the age of 90 tops 100,000 for the first time, there have been calls for them to be forced to retake the test. we will get the views of an experienced driver and a new driver. 0ur medical correspondent fergus walsh is here with more news about the charlie gard case.

walsh is here with more news about the charlie gard caselj walsh is here with more news about the charlie gard case. i think the judges moving to a decision that is probably that charlie should go to a hospice. the parents absolutely don't want charlie to die in the intensive care unit where he has been since october. the hospital has known for some time that they wanted about a week at home with him. great 0rmond asked around the country, is their rate paediatric intensive specialist who would be available to oversee that care? and they haven't found anybody. the reason for that is that charlie's needs are rather complex. he can't breathe, he can't move, he is fed by a tube, complex. he can't breathe, he can't move, he is fed bya tube, and complex. he can't breathe, he can't move, he is fed by a tube, and were simple issues like whether the ventilator would fit through the front door. the parents' lawyers in court yesterday said that when charlie is having things done to him, they can manually give him oxygen for a few minutes, so that

problem could be overcome. great 0rmond says he needs to be treated ina 0rmond says he needs to be treated in a specialist centre, and they are worried that something could happen to him. the compromise of a hospice, i think, is likely to be the way ahead, although the judge said yesterday that he was really pleading with both sides, can you please reach a decision amongst yourselves? i don't want to give an order. i think it will be an order that charlie is moved to a hospice. then we get the question of how long he is in there before his ventilation is removed. thank you, fergus. we will talk about the uk— us trade deal next, and the big issue of whether chlorine washed chickens would be allowed to enter the uk under such a deal. 0ne

minister says yes, and another says no. we can speak now to our political guru norman smith, who can explain exactly what all this is about. it seems a bit bizarre talking about chickens as the new front line in the battle over brexit, but it has become a test case for the kind of deals we may or may not be able to do once we leave the eu. no deal bigger than that we hope to strike with the us, and that is where the chickens come in. 0bviously, with the us, and that is where the chickens come in. obviously, the americans want access for their food and farming sector in any trade deal, but their chickens are cleaned after they are slaughtered in chlorine. that is to get all the germs and gunk off them. the difference is that in britain and the eu, we say, no thanks. if you have to do that to chickens, what kind of conditions are you keeping them in? so we have banned

chlorinated chicken. those in favour ofa chlorinated chicken. those in favour of a trade deal here say we have to relax. the americans eat chicken, they are fine, and in fact, their chickens are about 20% cheaper, it is just you row, chickens are about 20% cheaper, it isjust you row, namby—pamby nonsense. it is a bigger issue than just chickens, because, the argument goes, if we give on chlorinated chickens, we will probably give on things like gm crops, which rok in the us but not ok in europe, on hormone injected beef, which is ok in the us and not ok here. interestingly, today, the new environment secretary, michael gove, said very clearly that we won't do a deal with the americans. we will just waved goodbye to any big crucial trade deal if it means giving ground on the chickens. have a listen to what he said when he was asked by nick robinson on the today programme about this. chlorinated chicken — should it be

allowed ? you're the man who ultimately, if you're still agriculture secretary when the deal is done, the man who will have to decide. we don't need to waste time on this — yes to chlorinated chickens or no? no. under no circumstances? i made it perfectly clear — and, indeed, this is something which all members of the government agreed — that we're not going to dilute our high animal welfare standards or our high environmental standards in pursuit of any trade deal. so if the americans say, "this super great deal," whatever donald trump's deal language is for it, "we've got to have access to ourfarmers," michael gove says, "well, mr trump, sorry, you can kiss goodbye to your trade deal"? yes. critically, we need to ensure that we do not compromise those standards. that is a big statement by michael gove, because he is saying that no matter how big the deal, we just won't do it if it involves compromising of the chickens. what makes it more interesting is that is not the sort of music we are hearing

from liam fox, the cabinet minister who is supposed to be negotiating trade deals, because when he was asked on newsnight last night about this, he was much more cautious. it's fine. we don't need that regulation that the eu currently has. we will be prepared to accept whatever the chicken is washed in because we believe that is the right way to go, it makes food cheaper and it is a deal with the us? we will want to ensure that the scientific advice that we have ensures proper protection for british consumers, because dropping our standards is... well, it doesn't at the moment, right? the eu has a preventative strategy, so doesn't believe that chlorine washed chicken is the right thing to have in the eu. will that change under liam fox's trade deal? can you rule that out? well, i can rule out that we will be dropping our standards and consumer protection or environmental protection or on animal welfare. these are all perfectly reasonable things for people to look at. think on this: next time you have a

chicken burger, that is a signifier of all the difficulties we face in trying to negotiate new trade deals once we leave the eu. more on the news from the supreme court that the fees for taking a case to an employment tribunal, £1200 and more in some cases, are unlawful and restrict access to justice, according to the supreme court. let's get reaction. now we can speak to clara mason, a teaching assistant and unison branch official who is bringing an employment tribunal claim against greenwich council. and ronnie de andrade, a member of the independent workers' union who is taking his courier company to an employment tribunal. your reaction? i think it is fantastic news. we had seen a 70% decrease in people taking tribunal

action since it was included. people like me would never be able to go to court and stand up for what they believe if there were not changes like this. i welcome the changes and what the tribunal has said. you were taking your company to a tribunal anyway, despite the charges? taking your company to a tribunal anyway, despite the charges7m taking your company to a tribunal anyway, despite the charges? if it we re anyway, despite the charges? if it were not for the help of the unions, i would never be able to afford that. understood. how do you respond as an employment lawyer? it is a monumental day. i had to compose myself in the waiting room because i wanted to do a handstand. i don't know an employment lawyer who didn't think it was wrong to have fees. we all felt that it was morally the wrong thing to do, as a barrier to justice, but it didn't necessarily mean that the supreme court would hold that it was unlawful, so i am still reeling from the decision, and i can't wait to read the judgment. it is welcome news for people across

the board, and hopefully it might help change some attitudes from employers as well. in what respect? in my experience, when the fees came m, in my experience, when the fees came in, i noticed that some employers we re in, i noticed that some employers were less willing to negotiate. often, ina were less willing to negotiate. often, in a dispute, there is a resolution to be found. because of the threat of a tribunal, so it is worth having mediation? absolutely. we always try first to because it is better for both parties. when tribunal fees came in, better for both parties. when tribunalfees came in, there better for both parties. when tribunal fees came in, there was this from employers which was, show me you really mean it — pay your fees. so it became harder. cases which historically would have settled quite easily and quickly we re settled quite easily and quickly were running on for weeks and months. it definitely had an impact on attitudes from employers, and hopefully we will see that reversed. you say you can't wait to read the judgment. i can tell you, according to the supreme courtjudges, it was unanimous that it was unlawful in

both domestic and eu law, and also indirectly discriminatory against women, because women apparently bring more complex cases. is that correct? yes. the fees ran into my extremes. the first type cost £390 to run underthe extremes. the first type cost £390 to run under the old regime, and the second, discrimination claims, £1200, so significantly more expensive. there was evidence to support the fact that people bringing maternity and pregnancy discrimination claims, for example, sex discrimination claims, they couldn't even get off the ground with that level of fees. ok, thank you both for coming in. £32 million in fees that had been paid already will have to be paid back, according to our correspondent. let me bring you this news: mark dixie, who was serving a life sentence for the 2005 rape and murder of the teenage model sally anne bowman, has pleaded

guilty at southwark crown court to rape, indecent assault and gbh charges relating to to make other women. i'll give you that news again. mark dixie, who was serving a life sentence for the 2005 rape and murder of the teenage model sally anne bowman, has pleaded guilty at southwark crown court to rape, indecent assault and gbh charges relating to to make other women. —— two other women. men, listen up. your sperm count is declining and there are warnings that if it carries on at its current rate, humans could end up extinct. we are quite a long way away from that at the moment. falling sperm count has been linked with exposure to chemicals used in pesticides and plastics, obesity, smoking, stress, diet, and even watching too much tv. new research suggests that sperm count has dropped by more than 50% in the last 40 years. earlier we spoke to dr

hagai levine, the leader researcher of the report, professor allan pacey, former chair of the british fertility society, and richard clothier, who has been trying to conceive with his wife for over two years. dr levine told us what the study had uncovered. we found a dramatic, over 50% decline of two measures of sperm count, the sperm concentration and the total sperm count, a 50% decline over 40 years from 1973 to 2011, among men from western countries and selected by their fertility studies. right. furthermore, when we restricted the analysis to studies after 1995, to identify current trends, we found that the decline did not level off and even became steeper. ok, so the steepest climb is in the west. is that partly because more studies are done in the west? definitely.

we don't have enough data regarding the trends in non—western countries. we taken from western countries. and what are the other reasons for this steep decline in sperm concentration and sperm count? we know that the causes increase over time. so what are the causes? first of all, exposure to man—made chemicals that harm male reproductive systems, both during development, in the foetal period, but also in adult life. for example, chemicals like pesticides. this is, you know, an important suspect, especially as, obviously, genetics have not changed over time. also, lifestyle factors. we know that there is an obesity epidemic and we know that obesity is linked to reduced sperm count. smoking, especially smoking during the pregnancy, harms the development of the male

foetus but also later on in life, and lack of physical activity, stress, all these things that are also associated with your health are factors that affect our sperm production, and men reproduce sperm every day by millions, so this is a good measure of the general status of health. more than that, recent studies that sperm count is a predictor of future mobility and mortality. briefly, before i bring in our other guests, are you really suggesting that at some point in the future, human beings could be extinct as a result of the decline in sperm count? frankly, that's a misquote of the media. 0k. so, what are you warning? i'm warning that we have now a problem, a clear problem, that was neglected so far. we have a problem of male fertility that is neglected, and this problem reflects a problem with men's health.

0k. it ok. it needs to be started. let me bring in professor allan pacey from sheffield university. is the logical conclusion from this study that if sperm keeps declining, then in the end human beings will be extinct?” guess at a very simplistic level that yes, if the decline is real and it continues to the same slope, then maybe one day men will run out of sperm. but i think that's a big leap at the moment and whilst i congratulate the doctor on this study, because i think it is really good, i think we need to be cautious about how we interpret it and what health messages we give out about aduu health messages we give out about adult men and pregnant women. how do you interpret it and what message do

you interpret it and what message do you want to give out? i've always been very sceptical about this. this study addresses many of my concerns about flaws in a previous study and some interest is piqued in whether or not we are actually seeing a real effect. if you were going to devise a study to answer the question as to whether sperm counts were declining, you wouldn't do it this way and it is, in fact, quite shameful that governments and research windows haven't put the money in to answer the question once and for all. they did in denmark and the genera prospected study looking at every new 18—year—old military recruit over 15 to 20 years and they did not see a decline when they did that kind of prospective studies. had we done that in many countries 20 years ago we would now know the answer for sure. soi ago we would now know the answer for sure. so i think we still have to be

cautious. i think men should not be alarmed this morning but i think it isa wake—up alarmed this morning but i think it is a wake—up call. i think we need to invest more research effort into this question and really to get to the bottom of this. let me bring in richard, and he and his partner are going through ivf. richard has been told he has a low sperm count. good morning. how do you react to this study? i'm no medical professional but i'm not overly surprised, perhaps because i keep my ear to the ground for anything related to fertility issues, particularly male fertility issues, particularly male fertility issues, particularly male fertility issues, but i put a lot of work and effort into getting myself into is healthy position as possible, not because i'd seen categoric evidence being healthy was going to help my sperm but because of the more common sense that the healthier the position you are in, the more chance you are going to have of mitigating problems and, of course, if ivf treatment works,

which it did for a second time around, it will not do the health of the baby any harm. and from low sperm count to older drivers! we have, outside the bbc. there is a story out today that suggests there are loads and loads and loads of drivers on britain's roads over the age of 90. the figure has topped 100,000 for the first time in this country, so obviously we are outside to talk to an older driver and he is called colin bradbury. he is 65 and is in this amazing car, which does not belong to us, despite the stickers on the side. he's on... he isa car stickers on the side. he's on... he is a car with jac davies. i'm going to climb in. hello, both of you. is a car with jac davies. i'm going to climb in. hello, both of youm is so nice to be here. my mother loves you! these convertibles are a bit tight. | loves you! these convertibles are a bit tight. i love you, i think you

are amazing. shush! hello, colin. how are you? i am very well. you passed your test in 1952. is that correct? jack, you passed your test three weeks ago. congratulations. so, the first of all, colin, in that time, since 1952, any speeding fines, any misdemeanours? yes, yes, yes, i've had three speeding convictions but the most recent one sent me on a speed awareness course, which led me to take an advanced driving test, so it has been a good thing. ok, let's talk a bit more about that. also, i need to correct something. you've been driving for 65 years, you are actually 84. i underestimated your age, but that's because you look so much younger! so, how did you find... had you end up so, how did you find... had you end up speeding a bit in that 50 mph

zone? ijust did. i hadn't noticed. i wasn't aware and i was not speeding badly, iwas i wasn't aware and i was not speeding badly, i was speeding and 58, which is enough to get me convicted or sent on the speed awareness course. which was useful? very useful indeed. colin, you've got all these decades' experience, including some things where it has gone wrong, which you have learned from. what would you say to jack, who passed only three recent go? well, i would say, firstly, you are at the beginning of a long road. i must sound like a boring old far but experience does count for quite a lot. but if you can do earlier run what i did more recently, and that is take driving more seriously, and iam talking... is take driving more seriously, and i am talking... o, is take driving more seriously, and i am talking... 0, who has put the radio on? oh, my gosh! the radio

just came on automatically in this amazing convertible car! what was the question? oh, don't worry about it! jack, although you passed only three recent go, you have not been ina caryet, three recent go, you have not been in a car yet, have you? not yet. i wanted to have a look around first and see which was the right car and insurers for me, so i'm just having a look right now. are you nervous, though? er... a bit, in certain different ways, because i am new to all this, even though i have passed my test, everything is quite new to me, and there are different roads, because i learned in one specific place, there are different roads that i will have to go down but i am allup that i will have to go down but i am all up for challenges and pushing myself to learn new things. what you think about the fact that there are now 100,000 people over 90 with a british driving licence? that is demographics, isn't it? i'm much more concerned about the fact that sometimes people think that age of

itself makes one a worse driver. it can be, but it doesn't necessarily. in fact, the biggest danger on the road are in fact, the biggest danger on the road a re really in fact, the biggest danger on the road are really people in the age of 17 to 24, as i was myself at that age. sorry to interrupt it up you will know the people say, once you get over a certain age you should have to retake your driving test. i've done myself because ijoined the institute of advanced motorists and volunteered to take an advanced driving test it up volunteering is one thing but people say it should be compulsory once you get over 65 or70. be compulsory once you get over 65 or 70. i'm not sure about that. i would to take a loss of time to think about it. you are a young man. sometimes young men when they pass their driving test don't have a great reputation when it comes to driving. are you going to take it seriously? yeah, definitely, because when you're driving, anything can

happen andl when you're driving, anything can happen and i kind of... because a lot of 17 to 20—year—olds lose their lives because they are not reasonable on the roads, so i will definitely take it seriously. you've got to because you are going into the adult world so you need to take responsibility. ok. what do you think about petrol and gisela cars being banned by 2040?” think about petrol and gisela cars being banned by 2040? i have seen that this morning. it won't concern me, of course! you never know, it is only 20 years awaited top it is hypothetical at the moment. basically, it is a good idea. it is more likely to affect you, jack. what do you think? ooh! exactly what you said, it depends on how it develops in the next few years so it might be good, it might be bad. you will end up, at one point, presumably, driving an electric car. it is good for the environment so i

don't see why not. it will be good, definitely. thank you both. thank you, colin. sorry for getting your age from. jack, lovely to meet you. say hi to your mum, won't you? have a good day. back tomorrow at 9am. good morning. it is very wet outside at the moment. a band of heavy rain spreading from west to east across the uk. this is the latest radar rainfall picture. you can see where we have heavy bursts of rain in the green, across northern and western areas, in particular, that rain yet to move into east anglia and the south—east of england, but it will do over the next few hours. is the wrinklies eastwards with the blustery winds, we will see something a bit brighter across

northern and western areas. some sunny spells coming through one or ago showers, top temperatures about 18 to 20. the weather front associated with the rain will clear overnight. it is all linked with this area of low pressure just above my head and that area will be still with us during thursday. strong and gusty winds across these northern and western areas, frequent showers here. elsewhere, scattered showers and some sunny spells and between. one or two other showers could be heavy and thundery. not feeling too bad in the sunshine, temperatures about 17 to 20. friday is looking blustery again with showers and a bit of rain moving into the south—west later on. more details later in the morning. this is bbc news, and these are the top stories developing at 11.

the government has set out plans to ban sales of new petrol and diesel cars and vans from 2040 — to encourage motorists to switch to all—electric vehicles. we have to get rid of petrol and diesel cars off our roads. note only must we deal with the health problems from air pollution but also meet our climate change targets. the uk economy has grown by 0.3% in the second quarter of 2017, slightly up on the first quarter of the year. people will no longer have to take a claim toa people will no longer have to take a claim to a employment tribunal at a cost of hundreds of pounds. it is a tremendous victory, possibly the