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tv   HAR Dtalk  BBC News  August 28, 2017 12:30am-1:01am BST

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across much of texas. houston has been badly hit. more than 2,000 people have been rescued as the waters continue to rise. president trump is due to visit texas on tuesday. thousands of rohingya muslims are stranded on the bangladeshi border, after escaping two days of violence in myanmar‘s rakhine state. it's the latest in a deepening crisis in the region. and this story is trending on bbc.com. there's a heavy security presence in northern india, ahead of the sentencing of a controversial guru convicted of rape. 38 people died during protests after gurmeet ram rahim singh was found guilty. that's all from me now. stay with bbc world news. now on bbc news, it's time for hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk.
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in the late 70s, roman polanski admitted to having unlawful sex with a 13 year old girl. he spent 42 days in prison, and then fled the us because he feared being given a longer sentence. in the nearly a0 years since, much has been said and written about what happened. but we have hardly heard anything from the girl herself, samantha geimer. i have come to new york to hear her account of what happened, and how it shaped her life . samantha geimer, welcome to hardtalk. thank you. you have struggled to protect your privacy for nearly a0 years, so why are you choosing to speak up now? i just wanted to tell the story, the true story, my story,
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on my own terms rather than as a reaction to whatever might be bringing it up in my life, which happens from time to time. so i thought it was time to, on my own terms, at my own time, tell the truth and say the things i wanted to say. those who say, this is about making some money out of a story that has gone quiet, what would you say to them? it never goes quiet for very long for me, not that much, so that is out of my control. let's go back to what caused it. you were 13, and the first time you met roman polanski, he approached your family. he was looking to take some photographs of young girls. he was looking for a model, and he was a friend of our extended family. he approached you, and you went out with him one evening and he had met your mother, and he took
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some photographs of you. he came by the house, and met my mother to see if he could do photographs of me. we did test shots a couple of weeks later, during the day, so that was how that happened. what was your feeling at the time? what were you hoping would come from it? i was hoping i would be in vogue paris, and it would be my big shot at getting some parts and having an acting career. you went out with him, and you write about it in your book. you gradually took your clothes off while he took photos of you up on a hill in a public place. but you didn't tell your mother. he asked me to change my shirt, and took photos while i was topless. i let him do that, and i didn't tell my mother. then he gets back in contact, and he wants to take more. what was your feeling there?
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i was a little uncomfortable, but i really wanted that opportunity to be in vogue paris, so i went ahead with it. you wrote about it, saying, whatever i did on that hill, it might put me on the map, my family would be stoked. so everyone will be happy that you are making it. right. so tell me about that night. you went off with a friend as well, but she didn't stay. no, she never went along. he said we would be kind of late, and she couldn't stay late. i didn't see it as a big deal or a problem. and he ended up taking you up to jack nicholson's house? what were your expectations? ijust hoped we'd get good photos. i thought we would do photos until we lost the light and then i would go home later.
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from the moment you arrive, he gave you champagne? we had photographs, and there was a housekeeper and they opened some champagne, and i was using it during the photos to drink it and also as a prop. and he kept pouring you champagne. so he kept refilling it? and he also gave you a sedative? he offered me that, and i took it, i don't know why. can you explain why you went along with a lot of the things he was asking? i thought i was working, it was a modelling job, so i was there to model and do has he said and do it correctly. i thought it was work, most of it was work. the drinking was a lot of fun, since i was 13, almost 14, so that was like a little bonus.
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when you are younger, having a glass of champagne is nice. but i wasn't experienced enough to know that i had maybe had too much. he says, he wrote in his autobiography, there is no doubt about her experience and lack of inhibition. he says you weren't unresponsive. i'm sure he would like to remember it that way, so that's ok. i obviously had a lack of inhibition or wouldn't have been posing topless. so that's on me! was there a question of how much you allowed? i was foolish. i thought i was mature but i was naive. so i didn't see the warning signs. maybe, i knew it was somehow inappropriate, but i didn't put it together that it might go further,
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and something that might happen. and it did go an awful lot further. what ended up happening that night. you have written about it in your book, that it went, it was rape, sexual intercourse... yes, it was modelling, then he wanted to get in the jacuzzi with me. i realised it was wrong, i had been drinking and i had taken that pill, so i was just confused and after that he was going to have sex. and that is what happened. i didn't know how to stop it. you were saying no? i said no several times. i was afraid, i was unprepared, i was surprised. he also sodomised you, didn't he? yes. and that was because he was nervous about getting you pregnant? that is what everyone seems to think so i will go with that. i was scared and i didn't
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know how to stop it. i knew what sex was, and i figured, this is what is happening. i didn't know how to get out of it so i figured that since it was going to happen, let's just hope it happens quickly and will be done and i'll go home afterwards. i asked whether you allowed it. the other question that has been asked again and again is why your mother allowed it. why she couldn't see the warning signs. there were no warning signs. he was a respected man. who would have thought he would do something so inappropriate? there was nothing to indicate he would do that. he was well—known, and you wouldn't expect that from someone who would suffer those kind of consequences.
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he was incredibly high—profile, so do you think there was a presumption that somebody so famous wouldn't do something like that? yes, absolutely. and the times. trying to remember the 70s, was it more accepted do you think? the various comments that people have made about the case. 0ther directors, howard koch, for example. "it is one of those situations, that he could find himself in this situation. anyone could." it is an older man's opinion. times were different. i was still 14. you make the point that brooke shields had just posed nude at age ten, and she had been a child prostitute at the age of ten in pretty ba by.
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i was aware ofjodie foster being in taxi driver. it wasn't uncommon for young girls to be in sexualised parts. so, for your mother, she knew you were there, and you even called her, didn't you? and told her everything was all right? yes, i thought everything was all right. i was fine at that point. and in all that time, you have never been angry with her. it seems the only time you angry with her was for letting the police know. yes, i was immature and i was angry that she called the police because that really brought down a lot of difficult, terrible, horrible times. but she had to call the police.
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as a younger person i was angry, i wish she hadn't, because then it would have just been over, and instead it went on for year. it went on for a lot longer, didn't it? yes. you said of the subsequent process, if i had to choose between reliving the rape or the grand jury testimony, i would choose the rape. yes, it was ten minutes. the grand jury, everyone was then involved. my mother, my sister, my boyfriend. the whole family. and that was just one day of weeks that i had to go through. and then of course the years. the effect on your family over the years. yes, i think it affected my family even more than it affected me. it was quiet for quite a long time after that.
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you did say then that later when you are asked about it, if you had a daughter who was raped at 13, you almost question whether you would call the police. would you? probably, but i might think about that carefully after my own experience. because of what happened afterwards? because i wouldn't want to make it worse than just being raped. for me, it made it 100 times worse. i would hesitate... when you look back, you talk about this sense of what people expect of you. they almost wanted... there was a sense of disappointment. if only he had hurt me worse, in more obvious ways, it would have been better. it was strange and awful in a lot of ways. it started immediately, that night. police, the hospital, police station. the next day, the district attorney's office. then the fact that everyone was lying on top of that. then, trying to prove he did it,
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it was like, if there was more proof, if i was more damaged, then we could prove i wasn't lying. it was a strange thing. these were people who were on your side. yes, and that came up after time. they are on my side, yet wanting to prove something bad happened to me. it was really confusing for me, i was only 1a, and it was confusing to have to go through all that, to be forced to do so many things. i was so angry about all of it. did you feel as if they didn't care? that you were hurt, you just weren't hurt in the right way? i didn't think i was hurt. i was wondering why everyone was continuing to hurt me as some kind of requirement for what i had
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already been through. so the consequences of the rape. it was bad. it was really, really bad. the phone rang off the hook, everyone was calling me a liar, we couldn't leave the house. it started the next day. it was awful. some of the things that were coming at you, it was presumed that you had asked for it. it was presumed that i was lying, that i had asked for it, that my mother had sold me to him. every awful thing you could presume was presumed about me and my family. the judge said, what have we got here, a mother—daughter hooker team? right, the judge said that. you also say that you weren't the kind of victim people wanted. you didn't behave in the way people wanted. that was more at the time. at the time i was a really angry young girl. i'm sure i wasn't behaving the way
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people wanted me to then. but later, people want you to be interesting and damaged and traumatised. they would like to exaggerate what happened to you to make it more interesting. so, i don't co—operate with that because that is not who i am. it is like a disappointment for everyone that i am fine and i got over it. you have been critical of the victim culture and suggested that it does more damage to people? in recent days, it is like that there is a whole little entertainment industry built up around victims of crime and they are just used for ratings or for selling copies and spit out. i don't think that any of the people doing that really care about them or want to help them. they are just helping themselves at the expense of someone who has had a hard time. the victim themselves should not see it as sympathy. you think it damages their life?
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i know from experience that people insisting that you be a victim and put that on display for them and carry it out with you is damaging. how could it not be? as a result of your reluctance to continue the trial process, all sides have come to this idea. as a result of this, the more serious charges are dropped and he admits to unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor. a deal is reached with the judge on sentencing that you are happy with, weren't you? yes. the judge reneged on that deal and that is where the problem seems to have... the legal problems began with the judge. and continued with the judge and remain the responsibility of thejudge because he did not stick to the deal. he wanted to change it every time
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he thought that he was getting bad press, which is not how ourjustice system is supposed to work. as a result of his attempts to change it, that is what led to roman polanski fleeing the country? he was supposed to have probation and the judge was angry because of a photo of him in germany was published with a caption saying that he was having a good time. he made him come back and gave him an illegal sentence of 90 days as a diagnostic study. they then let him out in 42 days and the judge was angry again. thejudge put him back in for an indeterminate amount of time which can mean for up to 50 years and said, "come back in a few weeks and i will let you out for time served." which was on the judge's word which was good for nothing. do you sympathise with roman polanski?
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that is not how you are supposed to be treated in court. so you understand why he fled? i understand and i was kind of glad he did. really? it was nice that he was gone and it was over for a little while. it was over for a little while and i wonder if you think that it could have been resolved except for thejudge? it could have easily been resolved and should have been resolved and the judge just made sure that did not happen because he was concerned about himself and his own image and he was really enjoying the publicity and really wanted a trial. i think he was disappointed that they weren't going to put me on the stand at 1a to be cross—examined. do you now feel angrier with thejudge? he is no longer alive. if i had to pick, yes, i am not still angry but i definitely feel that he bears the responsibility for the way that this has worked out for all of us.
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you say that you felt relieved when roman polanski left. yes, he was gone! it was only a matter of time because in the years since then, there have been legal manoeuvres from all sides and we have this situation in 2009 when he was arrested in switzerland. you said that the panic attacks and insomnia you had suffered your entire life returned in full force. that was bad. they did not tell me that would happen so it was a complete shock. i called home because i was out of town. i called home to tell them to unplug the phone which is a standard procedure when anything happens. within hours, they called back, saying that there were reporters in the yard and people there with cameras and people parked up front. they would not leave and i was in colorado. i did not think it could get as bad as 1977 but it felt like it did. you said when he was released
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that he was released and put under house arrest. you said that you were relieved? i felt terrible. why should he be injail? how can you feel good about that? i wake up in the morning and the nightmare is back and he is in his 70s, sitting in a jail somewhere. i don't know who would feel good about that but i didn't. the district attorney said that it was about a 44—year—old defendant who plied a 13—year—old with drugs and then committed sodomy and sexual intercourse upon her. that would be why he pled guilty to unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor. all that other stuff the district attorney likes to say for shock value, that is not what he pled guilty to. that is for show. i think to embarrass me. because i do not help them. you think the district attorney were setting out to make life difficult for you?
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yes. there is another argument — that this is in the public interest. that here is somebody who did something and was never fully held to account because he fled. and it was never resolved. that is not true. he was never supposed to serve any time and he served 42 days. he did everything he was asked until it became so unreasonable that no—one would do it. you quote jaclyn freeman in your book, who campaigns on this matter and she says that rape is not just a crime against one person but also against the social fabric that binds us altogether. the argument is that you may want it to go away and he may want it to go away but it sends a very important message to somebody to not do this. that is true but he plead guilty. he served his time. i don't understand why people think that he should do more than that. we have the situation where this man who you hardly know,
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you only met three or four times, in one of which he raped you. you are virtual strangers and yet you are campaigning for him? i am not campaigning for him but i will campaign against a corrupt court, all by myself, for anybody. that's just my personal feeling about it. i couldn't not do it. in the process, is it campaigning forjustice for the victim as you go for justice for the defendant? i think there needs to be both. justice should be for the defendant, for the victim. it should be fair. while you are arguing this, this comes back to again in a sense, whether you are the kind of victim that the public likes? i am not. it is just the truth. the truth is he served his sentence. undoubtedly, majority of public
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opinion was against him. yes, which is interesting because now it is. but i know that feels like because when this happened, it was all against me. that is the change of culture between 1977 and now. in the 70s... i was lying, we had set him up. people called my house and asked if we were prostitutes, we were hated, it was terrible. and now it is reversed, so i know what it is like to be to be on the wrong end of it. he wrote you a letter of apology in 2009? yes. did that help in any way? it helped because it made my mother feel better and that made me feel better. even a couple of friends. for me, every one of my family is upset and i want them to feel better because i am fine. in it, he said he wanted you to know how sorry he was and that they should
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give your mother a break. "the fault was mine, not your mother's." it was obvious. i knew he felt that way. i appreciated it and it made my mother feel better. this strange relationship you have with this man... you have been tied to him all your life? yes. i used to think that it might end but i think now that we have both realised that it is permanent. you have been in contact with him? you have e—mailed each other? we have had some limited contact and he sent me that note but nothing personal, nothing important. how do you feel about him? i hope that he is well. i know he has a wife and children so i have some sympathy for the way he gets treated about this because, like i said, i have been on the other end of it as well. i don't have strong feelings. i don't really know him. you are not curious? about what? about what he is like, about what he would be like if he saw you?
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i don't know. i don't know why. what difference does it make to me? it's not part of my life, who he is. samantha geimer, thank you for coming on hardtalk thanks for having me. the. temperatures are coming down a week ahead. make the most of any warm sunshine you have to on monday, the bulk of that will be across parts of england and wales. the wind has been picking up as well and there will be some wet weather to come. this a band of rain will push
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its way south during the day, not too much of that wet weather through scotland. with it, it will be windy, increasing in the parts of western wales. eastern wales and the west of england, very warm sunshine. 0nce wales. eastern wales and the west of england, very warm sunshine. once it has pushed through the north of scotland, it will begin to brighten up scotland, it will begin to brighten up throughout the day, with one or two showers. to the south of that though, is staying dry for the bulk of the day across northern england. across the lake district, that cloud could be quite low. there could be some rain and drizzle around the parts of wales. long sunny spells across east anglia. that will allow temperatures to head higher than they did on sunday. 28, 20 nine celsius across england, there is even a chance of 30. the warmest bank holiday on record, so keep
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watching the numbers. call, fresher feel behind that across scotland and northern ireland, across wales. muqqy northern ireland, across wales. muggy in the east anglia and south—west england. —— south—east. with it to the north of that, that cooler, fresher feel the things. scotla nd cooler, fresher feel the things. scotland may catch the odd shower. northern ireland and scotland, mostly northern scotland, quite windy still. though showers could be heavy. a complicated picture. weather gone by thursday as high pressure builds vacuumed across the uk. for wednesday, parts pressure builds vacuumed across the uk. forwednesday, parts of pressure builds vacuumed across the uk. for wednesday, parts of england and wales could see brain at sometimes. for thursday to friday and the weekend, high pressure will settle things down once again. so
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the outbreak this week then. it will bea the outbreak this week then. it will be a very warm start. and, it will turn clears the week goes on, a bit of rain wednesday, a few showers too. but then high—pressure settling things down later in the week. i'm rico hizon in singapore, the headlines. 2,000 people rescued as houston is hit by catastrophic flooding. tropical storm harvey continues to batter texas with heavy rains. security forces on high alert in northern india ahead of the sentencing of a guru convicted of rape. i'm babita sharma in london. also in the programme. the largest festival gets under way in west london with a tribute to the terms of the grenfell tower disaster. and making military history — the indian navy's all—woman team
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