range missile overjapan, the first time it has publicly acknowledged doing so. north korea's state news agency said the missile launch was supervised by leader kim jong—un. an emergency meeting of the united nations security council is underway. president trump has been visiting texas, where rescue teams are continuing to deal with the effects of widespread flooding. large parts of houston are under water. and this story is trending on bbc.com. new data suggests that the spectacular rings of saturn may be just 100 million or so years old. the information comes from the spacecraft cassini, which has been orbiting the planet. that's all from me now. stay with bbc world news. now on bbc news, it's time for hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk, i'm stephen sackur. relations between the united states

and north korea have long been difficult. the recent toe—to—toe confrontation between donald trump and kim jong—un raised fears of a conflagration on the korean peninsula. my guess today has a unique perspective on north korea's often impenetrable mindset. kenneth bae is an american christian missionary of korean descent who was arrested inside north korea and spent two years in a pyongyang prison. what does his experience tell us about the world's most secretive country? kenneth bae, welcome to hardtalk.

let's begin with your decision to go and live in china in 2006. quite soon afterwards, you began undertaking tours into north korea, that special economic zone inside north korea, close to the chinese border. why did you undertake those tours? i was sent as a missionary to china, and i was living in the chinese community. while i was serving in the chinese community, i was able to meet with north korean defectors and others. i ended up visiting north korea to see what it is like to live there, what it is like to see how people live there. by doing so, i ended up conducting a tour into the country ‘s. when you say you went

there to see how people lived, you also went as a christian missionary? that is correct. i am a christian missionary and i was there to see how we could help the people that, how to pray for the people, and how to build a bridge to the people in north korea. you and the people on your tours, you were all committed christians. you had a christian outreach purpose in going to north korea. you went with bibles? that is correct, we had something to worship with but we kept it to ourselves. i was told it was quite safe as long as we kept our worship and prayer to ourselves it was not something to worry about. we went in to see the land and engage in different conversations, without vandalising people theere. it seems you are treading a difficult, grey line,

because as we all know, christianity, for people inside north korea, it is forbidden. if they possess a bible they can face extreme criminal punishment. by going in with a missionary mission and to be intent to signal to those people in north korea your christian purpose, were you not running risks both for yourself and the people you were meeting? it was perfectly 0k to bring a bible as a tourist into north korea. as long as we keep the bible to ourselves, it should not be any problem. what about the chats you had, the hymns you sang with north korean people in close attendance? the prayers? at one point, i believe you said that you prayed that jesus can make

a channel to the north? if north koreans appear sympathetic to that, you would get them and yourself in trouble. we had to work with different channels, we worked with people in the tour industry in north korea. there was a specialised city that i brought people into. it was ok for christians going on to pray. as long as it was in our own spaces. we fast forward through a number of these trips you undertook, to the trip you undertook in late 2012 when you actually got detained. that's correct. i am feeling that cannot have been a complete surprise to you, given the north korean regime and what you were trying to do? i made a mistake by carrying a portable hard drive

into the country that contained some theories about western media regarding north korea, about north korea. they were upset to find out that i had brought in something disturbing to them. this is why i was arrested, not because of what i was doing before. one writer has drafted fascinating books about teaching english to the north korean elite. she has considered your case and said that basically, you did things that were not allowed by the regime, and you got punished accordingly. that you sort of brought this upon yourself. would you accept that? i made a mistake by carrying a portable hard drive into the country, but when they realised i brought people to pray and worship inside north korea, they took it as a hostile act to themselves. they did, they accused

you of all sorts of crimes, but it boiled down to plotting to overthrow the government. that is why you were sentenced to 15 years hard labour. overthrowing the government by prayer and worship, that was the charge. take me back to that moment, i believe it was 2013 when you were sentenced. you had had a lot of interrogation by that point. some of it had been quite psychologically intense. how did you feel as you stood there, waiting for your sentence? they told me that i probably would not get anything. i don't have to worry about the worst, that is what they told me. that meant the death penalty or life in prison. i knew they would go for a more lenient sentence because i was using my

place as a political bargaining chip at the time. 15 years with hard labour. you said you thought they would treat you leniently, how did you feel when you heard the sentence? i was glad that i got 15 years. i didn't think that i would actually serve 15 years of that sentence in north korea. i was sort of told that it is not about how many years i would be getting, it is about the attitude and what the us government would do. from the very beginning, it got the feeling that you were a bargaining chip? not in the beginning, but while the investigation was going, two or three months later, i realised that it was not anything just about myself. examining not just myself but our entire us government system. were you ever abused, during the interrogation phase or once they put you into

prison as a convict? was there abuse? no, i was not abused, but there was some psychological trickery. making us uncomfortable, at the time. once you said, one of the prosecutors told me i was the worst, most dangerous american women they had apprehended since the korean war. they said that because they thought i was doing the missionary work by myself, but i trained and mobilised and brought many people in north korea to pray and worship. there are others who worked in north korea, they said, it not only you, you brought so many others. therefore, you are the most dangerous criminal we have ever apprehended. there are so many contradictions

to this, i wonder if you can explain. on one level, they hated what you were doing and clearly regarded you as dangerous. the christian missionary work was something they found more than alarming. and yet, you say that they'd put you in a cell with a bible, with access to hot water, twice a week you were allowed to visit a sauna. this is north korea where the ordinary people of the country are suffering the most terrible deprivations, and you had access to a sauna? that was in my detention centre but for the trial. apparently they have private bathrooms with a sauna in it. it was not a nice bath time. it was not anything extraordinary. i am just trying

to get to grips with what they were doing with you. do you think, from the outset, they wanted you to be somebody that they, in a sense, preserved in a good condition, physically and mentally, because they hoped that your case, there was another american citizen, matthew miller, who was being kept in the same prison for much of the time you were there. they very much for you as part of a way of reaching out to the 0bama administration? exactly. this is what they told me. when i was sent to a labour camp, the conditions were not that great. the food was not great, i had to work eight hours a day,

six days per week. i was not sitting in a nice room for two years. while i was there working, the prosecutor came to see me and told me that, at this rate, your government doesn't care about you enough, you may have to stay here for another seven or eight years. you probably won't get home until you retire. this is the guy who gave me the 15 years of hard labour sentence. you are officially known as risen at 103, but some gods, when you were alone, they would refer to you as pastor, which suggests to me you developed a relationship with some of them? by about one year into it, i did develop a relationship with some of the gods. i realised they are regular people just like us. theyjust happened to live there. they were working there.

as a human being, we started striking up conversations. when there was nobody around, sometimes instead of calling me a prisoner, they would say, pastor, can i talk to you? it was like everybody else living in the country as well. having small conversations like that. a great deal of common humanity, you say. i am told that when commentators look at north korea today, so many assume that it is a society that is absolutely brainwashed. you have been inside that society, in a very particular way, being a prisonerfor two years. you have emerged from the experience, you look back at it, does it strike you as a brainwashed society? i think that is pretty much true. as soon as they were born, they were taught that way. the media, everything,

they were surrounded by it. even for me, living there for a few months and watching television and reading the newspapers and books that they get to read, only being there for a few months, i realise that this is actually taking effect on me, because i only see the good sides of the story about the leaders of the country. if people are born there, living in the society, they wonder they think that way. i realised that many of them, they are so brainwashed that, even with different opinions and things, they want to reject everything, because they don't think it can possibly be true. did they warm to you? i believe so. we were having conversations,

they had some second thoughts. they did wander. information is key if we want to see any changes happening in north korea. information from outside, communication is very important as a tool for winning the hearts of people in north korea. you were released at the end of 2014 and that seemed to be linked to a secretive visit made by the director of national intelligence, james clapper, to north korea. i'm mindful that your case is so very different to that of a young man 0tto warmbier who also ended up in prison in north korea. it's a complicated story, how it all happened, he was accused of stealing a sign and then accused of espionage and imprisoned. as we all know, soon after, it seems he suffered a terrible brain injury and ultimately was returned to the us and died very soon afterwards. given what you have described about your treatment, can you in anyway explain or speculate about what happened to 0tto warmbier? i can only guess, just

like everybody else. i do believe that either there was physical abuse or some kind of accident that could have happened. why would they abuse him and not you? your guess is as good as mine. i think it depends on what 0tto really did to trigger those kinds of things as well. if it was the poster being taken down, i do believe the slogan had kimjong—un‘s name on it. if that's so, it's a direct insult and calls for some pretty harsh treatments. maybe he had no idea because it was written in korean but it has kim jong—un‘s name on the posters and it's actually a pretty serious crime against them. therefore, the treatment could be different.

and then maybe because in his interview, i realised he used the words, "save my life." people don't usually say those things. "spare my life," maybe, but not "save my life." therefore, i think he was under threat and going through physical or psychological threats and maybe a nervous breakdown or something like that. a lot has changed since you were released. not only has kim jong—un‘s authority in north korea been exercised in all sorts of ways including more and more missile tests and allegations he has now conquered the miniaturization of a nuclear device, but we have also seen a change of administration in the united states. donald trump is now the president and we have seen that highly dramatic, intense stand—off between kim jong—un and donald trump

in recent weeks. with your perspective and insight, based on what you know of north korea, when donald trump talks of fire and fury, talks of locking and loading, talks of displaying power to north korea, the likes of which people have never seen before, how do you think north koreans and obviously their leader kim jong—un, are going to respond to that? north korea doesn't like losing theirface. therefore, in terms of a tough stand, they will continue to stand with that kind of position. i think the missile nuclear testing may continue until they get to the level they want to be at. you are saying intimidation doesn't work?

it may work a little bit but i think eventually they know there is a limitation to what the us government can do because we are talking about a complication with south korean and japan and everybody else nearby. therefore, it may take some time but they will continue to get to where they want to be so they can finally make a meaningful negotiation with the united states government. you now live in seoul and you are part of a south korea that is watching with some consternation as this stand off continues. i want to get to your personal decision making since you were released from prison in north korea. you have gone to live in seoul and it seems dedicated your life to working, in a large part, with escapees from north korea with this organisation serving life. tell me about the people you are working with today. how many, in an average year now, are getting out of north korea and what are they telling you about

the way they are experiencing these conditions in north korea right now? every year at least 1000—1500 people are escaping to south korea. many more numbers of people are escaping but they've been caught or sent back from china. but the numbers have gone down. is that because kim jong—un and his regime are guiding and monitoring the river border with china much more closely and it's more difficult to escape today than it used to be? yes, that's true. right now, it is a lot harder for people to cross the border. it's harder, after they escape from north korea, they are living in the border area, for then to get away from the border to the cities or southern regions, it's very difficult. and from the recent escapees, is it your impression that living conditions, we know from un agencies

and others that roughly 70% of the population are reliant on food aid of some sort, is it your impression conditions are getting worse or better? i think it's actually getting better than before. now they have almost like a free public market system, and they are using it to gain economic wealth. it's not because of what the government did but the people themselves have to rely on themselves and now they are making trade everyday. it seems like it's got better than during those famine years but in terms of people's suffering, it still same. let's go back to where i began which is asking you about the degree

to which you have to take personal responsibility for your arrest in north korea. you arguably made some pretty terrible decisions. itjust strikes me that this issue of committed christians wanting to get into north korea for missionary work, it hasn't gone away. after you were arrested, i found this extraordinary comment from the youth with a mission movement who like to send missionaries to difficult places, including north korea. even after you had been detained, they talked about preparing men and women for presenting the gospel to north koreans. "those people whose minds and hearts have atrophied in darkness under communist rule." the missionary group said, "as long as participants keep a level head and use common sense, there should be no trouble." that's an outrageous

thing to say, isn't it? now you know the us government just issued restrictions and travel bans to north korea. that's right. i was just in the state department and i was telling them that now, time is very different. at the time i was arrested four years ago, time was different. especially after 0tto warmbier‘s case, i do not recommend people go there as a tourist at this time. still, that was a missionary brandishing a bible. well, you know, every group has their own way of doing things. i cannot say for sure that everybody but do believe that if they are called to go, they can go but with responsibilities. surely, your message, given your personal experience, to anybody considering going into north korea to do christian outreach, surely your message to them, as a responsible person, should be, "do not do it."

well, if they decide to do it, they need to count the costs. i had to pay the cost of being arrested and was imprisoned for two years. in those two years, i learned that i developed more heart the for people in north korea. i am working with refugees outside of north korea. my heart is still the same for the people inside north korea. we're talking about 2k million people with no human rights or freedoms to choose what they want to believe and there is no information going into them. we do need to embrace and care for them but we need to do it wisely. so, in a word, was your experience worth it? i do believe so. we have to end there there. kenneth bae, thank you very much forjoining me on hardtalk. thank you.

hello. for some of us, wednesday looks set to bring a major cooldown. thursday, parts of south—east england had temperatures into the mid to high 20s. but for wednesday, not so. 15 or 16 degrees is the very best we can expect, with some outbreaks of rain. it may even feel like the end of summer. the cooler weather comes courtesy of this strip of cloud that has been working its way slowly southwards and eastwards. cooler air already in place across scotland, northern ireland, and northern england. here, the day ahead will bring

a mixture of sunshine and showers. breezy in the far north—west. but the further south and east you are, the greater the chance of being stuck in the areas of cloud, with some outbreaks of rain. where this tense heaviest and most persistent, you may be at 12 or 13 at times in the afternoon. if you get a dry or bright spell, you could possibly at a few degrees about. the south—west of england, wales, and the north of england, some spells of sunshine. just a few showers by the afternoon. showers across scotland. 16,17,18 degrees. looks like we could see some heavy showers working to northern ireland in the afternoon. 17 degrees in belfast. a soggy end to the date in east anglia and the south east. but then that should pull away to the east as we get into the early hours of thursday. with clear skies and fairly light winds, it will turn chilly. 10—11 degrees for some towns and cities.

rural areas in single digits. so a cool and fresh day for thursday. a day of sunshine and showers. some of those showers could be heavy. could be thundery. quite hit and miss. dry spells in downpours. temperatures ranging from 16 in glasgow to 21 degrees in london. the vast majority, it should be dry with spells of sunshine. temperatures no great shakes. 15—21 degrees. pleasant enough in the sunshine. the weekend starts fine, but on sunday, we could see more cloud. before i go, a quick update on tropical storm harvey, which has once again over the last 2a hours being feeding huge amounts of rainfall into texas. some areas of scene well over a metre of rain. the wettest weather is sliding further east and north. so across those flood hit parts of texas, the rain will start to ease.

however, the floodwaters will not subside for quite sometime. i'm rico hizon in singapore. the headlines: north korea confirms it did fire a medium—range missile overjapan. the un security council is meeting to discuss the international response. president trump travels to texas, where rescue efforts continue following tropical storm harvey. 11 people have died and thousands are forced from their homes. i'm babita sharma in london. also in the programme: we have a special report on the bangladeshi migrants who risk their lives to make a perilous journey from libya to europe. and risking it all. we will speak to the skydiver who jumped from a plane completely naked, and playing the violin.