tv HAR Dtalk BBC News October 4, 2017 12:30am-1:01am BST
12:30 am
shooting in las vegas. among the 59 people killed by gunman, stephen paddock, was a us navy veteran, and a special needs teacher. president trump has said the debate on gun control "will come but is not for now." catalonia will declare independence from spain in a matter of days according to the catalan president. earlier, the king of spain described political leaders in catalonia as being disloyal. and this story is trending on bbc.com. it's to do with a theory first proposed by albert einstein about so called gravitational waves. it's now been successfully proved by three scientists who jointly won this year's nobel prize for physics. congratulations to them. that's all from me now. stay with bbc world news. now on bbc news, it's time for hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk, i'm sarah montague. there have always been supporters
12:31 am
of the far—right in germany, but not since the war have they had so many representatives in parliament. nearly 6 million people voted for afd, or alternative fur germany, in last week's election. that will make it the third—biggest party in the bundestag. but, within days of its stunning electoral success, its co—leader declared she was out. the party was too anarchic, too focused on russia, discrediting its moderate members, and would be ineffective in opposition. my guest on hardtalk is the afd's deputy leader, beatrix von storch. with more than 90 members in parliament, what difference will they make to germany? beatrix von storch, welcome to hardtalk.
12:32 am
why do you think your former co—leader frauke petry left to set up her own group in parliament? well, actually we don't care about it. because we have given responsibility by our voters, and they expect us to come up with a solid and a constructive opposition in this parliament, and this is what we are about to set up at the very moment. so we are concentrating on this. we have not yet founded our group completely. we voted into office already two spokesmen, and four other people, and there are others to come. so this is what we concentrate on.
12:33 am
we know that people expect the afd to focus on what has been handed over to them, and that's the responsibility to set up an opposition group in this parliament, because there hasn't been any for the last years. you say that you don't care that, just after the election, your co—leader walked out. yeah, if someone‘s leaving, you can't stop them. she declared her decision. we recognise it, and then we keep on going on what has been — what is our duty now, and this is to settle our group, and to come to work in the parliament. that's what we're doing. but she says you're an anarchic party, that you can't offer a credible alternative government, that moderate members are discredited. do you recognise what she is saying there? well, we recognise that we gained almost 6 million votes. 1 million from the former christian democratic union, so from angela merkel‘s party, 500,000 from the social democrats, 500,000 from the left, and lots of voters who've been not voting for the last election. so this is what we see. we know what the people want. they want a shift in the policy, and it's now upon us to put this shift into reality.
12:34 am
but you have been in the strange situation of losing a leader before, because he, like frauke petry, suggested the party had changed. two years ago, bernd lucke said that the party was pro—russian, anti—western, openly xenophobic, and used xenophobic rhetoric. you know, we can talk about our programme. i know that's very difficult for you, and all the others, to talk about our programme. we are not phobic, or anything. wejust declared, for example, that islam does not belong to germany. we are in favour of the religious freedom, of course. but islam is claiming political power, and this is what we deny. and we do not want to do compromises with a religion claiming political power, because in our
12:35 am
constitution, and in our — with our values, it's not comfortable to have a religion claiming political power. this is what islam is doing, very clearly, because sharia is a part of islam. and sharia is not only organising the personal beliefs of a person, but is also regulating the civil law, and the punishing law, and the public law, and it's not only about religion. i want to get onto those policies in a moment, and you immediately reach for islam, and we will come back to that. but it is partly because of your policies that people are saying that — questioning what the party stands for. because, of course, the afd started off as an anti—greek bailout. that is what the "alternative" was. and now, people are suggesting that it has been captured by the far—right. 0skar niedermayer, who is germany's leading academic expert on political parties, said that you have increasing connections to right—wing extremism. yeah, there are all kinds
12:36 am
of experts, and all those experts said that the euro rescue policy would work out. all those experts predicted that there will never be a brexit, and all those experts predicted that there will never be a president trump. so all those experts somehow got it wrong, dramatically. ok, but are they wrong with this? are you attracting more right—wing extremists? we are attracting all those people who say we do not want to have unlimited numbers of uncontrolled illegal migrants coming to our country, without even showing their passport, and just coming into our country. this is what we do not want. we want to have control over our borders. we want to take in migrants, yes. but we don't want to take in unlimited numbers of illegal migrants. but you haven't answered my question. you haven't answered my question, which is that — is the party gaining more support, and having increasing ties, with right—wing extremists?
12:37 am
no, of course not. i mean, they are still there, they are still voting for other parties. all those parties are still there. so this is not what we are going for. we are addressing a problem. and i know it is very hard for you to talk with me about those issues, because you'rejust going always to one side and saying, look, you're attracting those people, and you're attracting those people. what we do, we have a very clear programme. we've come up with this programme, we've presented this programme to the people, and this programme has been voted, has gained overi million votes from those former christian democratic union voters, so those who voted merkel in 2015, last time. this time... yes, but — i want to get onto the policies, but people who voted for you also need to know what you stand for. so you have — the number of mps elected was 94. among them, among your new mps, these are the people that presumably you are proud to represent your party in the bundestag, you have jens maier, a judge who has criticised germany's "cult of shame" over world war ii, and used nazi terms to condemn the creation of mixed races.
12:38 am
you have wilhelm von gottberg, who described the holocaust as a myth, a dogma protected from historical research. you have petr bystron, who is on a watchlist of the german domestic intelligence service because of his support for the extreme right—wing identitarian movement. are these the mps you are proud of? no, we've got 93 members now, which make part of our group, and they're coming from all the different states. and there are some who have, of course, debates in the public in the last month. that's true, i don't deny it. you can go into every detail, and then look closely, what have they said, and what have they come up with. petr bystron, for example — it's ridiculous what is brought against him. so we have those talks also within our group. i don't say we don't have those talks. so you're quite satisfied
12:39 am
that all those mps. .. you're quite happy for them to represent the afd, every one of those 93 remaining? i am very happy that the german parliament gets back an opposition voice, because there has not been anyone, any opposition voice, in the last years. this is very important. and what we can see is that we already, only by existing, and only by being a member of the parliament now, the public debate is shifting. because in germany they tried to push us down, and claiming us right—wing i—don‘t—know—what, the whole time. and this does not function, because people see that this country is facing severe problems, severe problems. and this is not — it's not about one quote of one member which has not been good, or even bad. this is not causing a problem for our country. 0k, well, let's turn to what the alternative fur deutschland looks like. you immediately refer
12:40 am
to your policies on islam. what are they? do you want to close down mosques? no, we want to make very clear that we do not want to have islam claiming political power in our country. we're very much in favour of religious freedom. i said that already. and a mosque is where muslim people are practising their beliefs, so that's ok. what we know from our secret services is that we basically — and every mosque has problems, because they're preaching very often in a language that we don't understand, which is arabic. and they're preaching against our values, our constitution, our people, our culture. and this is what has to be looked at very closely. we know that from our secret services, that they are... what are they preaching — what are you suggesting that they are preaching, that you are not happy with?
12:41 am
it is not me saying. it is our secret services saying. they know that there is very much going against our culture. they are preaching in favour of sharia law, and this is something we ask them to declare. it's very — we've got lots of integrated muslim people in our society, even germans. so it's not a problem with muslims as believing — as a believer, as a person who's believing. but we ask them to declare that sharia law is, for example, not — they are not sticking to sharia law. we ask them to distance themselves from sharia law. and what we know is that sharia law is part of islam. but that does not go together, and as long as they are sticking to sharia law, they are going against our constitutions. because, for example... you want an end — you want no appliance of sharia law. even if it is in the private matter of somebody who gets married in another country, has an islamic wedding, and then sharia law applies in their community, you think that is not appropriate? we don't think, for example, it's appropriate to accept the child marriage, for example. this is something that we think. even if they get married
12:42 am
in their country, we don't want to have that. we don't want — that does not go together with our values, and you can't claim religious freedom for all these kinds of practices. but german law and the german constitution already trumps that — any other law. this is what — what we ask them to do is to publicly declare that they do not stick to sharia law. and we have got islamic organisations within germany, one is the zentralrat der muslime, publicly saying that our local law is not binding for them, directly. it's only valid for them because the islamic law, which is above all law, is telling them to stick to our law. so you want individual muslims — do you want individual muslims to denounce sharia law? we want both.
12:43 am
i mean, we want those organisations to declare that sharia law is not what they are going for. and, of course, persons also. but maybe we start with the organisations, because they are speaking — not for all of them, that's another problem, but at least for some. and you have made it... it shouldn't be so complicated. well, you've made it clear that you would ban the burqa. but you also say that public servants, teachers, students, shouldn't wear a headscarf. does that also apply to, for example, nuns who wear veils? no, it's not, and i think maybe we have got some different point. this is still a christian country. everyone is free to live his own beliefs. but we don't want to have, in our public schools, and in public buildings, scarves or niqabs or burqas. so a nun who is teaching, can she wear a veil? yes. but a woman who perhaps has a scarf, that covers less of her hair and head, but because she is muslim, she can't. we don't want to have that in our public schools, no. why not?
12:44 am
why not — what is the difference? the difference is that this is not a muslim country. that's the difference. and everyone who wants to live in a muslim country, and wants to live under sharia law, is welcome to do so, but not in germany. but what — can i ask, if you are satisfied with a nun who is wearing a veil, what difference does it make to you if somebody has their head covered for different reasons? we — i mean, this is a political line we have, and we don't want to go and move... what we can see... i'm living in berlin, i am in berlin right now. what we can see here in the streets is that it's an ongoing process, that those who have not worn any kind of scarf or anything in the past, of the muslims, are now doing so. even at school, even the young children, even the young girls. so we're seeing this as a process, and it's ongoing, and we don't
12:45 am
want to start this process. you don't like any signs of someone practising the islamic faith in germany, is that it? no, we say we don't want to have it in public. you make the point that this is the history of germany, that it's going against it. one of the party's leaders, alexander gauland, said this on september 2 — "if the french are rightly proud of their emperor, and the britons have nelson and churchill, we have the right to be proud of the achievements of the german soldiers in two world wars." now... can i ask you — are you proud of your grandfather? he was hitler's finance minister. you know, no, iam not proud. and i know that my grandfather, personally, was guilty. very much of it. i know it. but i don't think that's the way
12:46 am
we should debate it. and i was not very happy about all those kinds of comments. the comments he made were — others have done that before. so eisenhower has said the same thing. and i don't think it was helpful to repeat those. i think what he wanted to say is that not every single soldier was a murderer. but of course, there were... i lack the correct word in english, to say it's unforgettable what has been done under the wehrmacht by german soldiers. but the only thing he wanted to say is that not every single boy who served there was a brutal murderer. but he's not alone in making comments about the second world war that other people in germany find incredibly uncomfortable. bjorn hocke, who leads the party in the eastern state of thuringia,
12:47 am
said that germany should stop atoning for its nazi past, and he referred to a — he described a monument, a tribute to murdered jews in the centre of berlin as a monument of shame. now, there was a huge amount of criticism, not least from germany's central jewish councillor who said that the party had shown its true faces with these anti—semitic and utterly inhumane words. you know, i think the point about all these quotes is one thing. you are asking and you're wondering how it is that the afd has gained so much power. we are in 13 regional parliaments now, 13 out of 16, and we are now the third biggest group in the german parliament. and this is because this country is facing severe problems. people really think that this chancellor is moving our country into a position, which is causing existential problems. and this is what we focus on and this is what we are addressing.
12:48 am
and, yes, there are sometimes people who are saying stupid things. no—one denies it. and probably, some other stupid things that will be said in future, i can't say that. but the thing is that we are still the third biggest party, and people now realise that it makes no sense to only come out, you know, we're having 20 minutes or 25 minutes... you well know... could ijust finish this sentence, please? i want to interrupt because you make the point, you're quite right — you make the point that you're the third biggest party, but you also know that you lost support after those comments. and if people... this is true. we would be even bigger without those comments. you are completely correct. the thing is that within the 25 minutes of this debate we are having, you're spending 20 minutes on three or four people's quotes. you're not talking about politics. they are seniorfigures in your party, which is why i refer to them.
12:49 am
no, it's one senior one. let's talk about your policy on immigration, because this is one of the central themes. you bring up islam, but you have said in the manifesto that you want to control immigration from within the eu. do you want to shut the country's borders? so, first of all, we want to shut the country's borders for illegal migration, this is very clear. we, basically, everyone wants it except maybe the greens, but they are crazy. so all the rest wants to close down the borders. no other country in the world is taking in an unlimited number of illegal migrants coming from... yeah, from even outside the european union, which means from africa and the near east. so no other country in the world is following us because it's stupid to do so and we are only addressing this problem, and we are addressing this problem because it is one. and of the immigrants who are there, and the large number, what would you do about them?
12:50 am
are you planning on kicking people out? yes, we are planning on kicking hundreds of thousands of people out, and i mean, those people who have gone already through a legal process within germany, and at the end of the process, our courts have taken the decision that they have no right to stay. so they have to leave under our law and we want to have those people going back immediately. this is very — yeah, that's true. let me ask you — how are you going to do this? because you have 93 members of parliament now, but you have very limited influence. the spd party leader, martin schulz, has said he is not going to go into coalition because "we cannot have an extreme right—wing party leading the opposition." how are you going to make the change that you want? laughs yeah, isn't that funny? so schulz is going into opposition because he doesn't want to lead the government, but rather, the opposition. that's so funny. but anyway, we have a huge impact, because people are talking about it. and we will bring up this debate,
12:51 am
we will bring back this debate into the parliament because we didn't have this debate in our parliament. we had a chancellor who just decided on her very own to open our borders to everyone and let everyone in. there was not even a decision, and not even a debate in the parliament. so now we have this debate, and now... you are shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted. you're fighting something where there are already immigrants. how are you going to make a difference? because anything your party — nobody wants to go into coalition with you. how are you going to make any change? well, they are picking up our programme little by little. so what we came up with in 2013 already, for example, claiming the need for legal migration, to have a migration law, to have regulated migration — this is what we came up with four years ago and now they're picking this up. then we came up with the idea to stop bringing boats from libya to europe, but rather, rescue those people who are in danger in the middle of the mediterranean
12:52 am
and then bring them back to libya. this was brought up by us in the beginning. now the others have taken over. all other parties are saying they won't work with you. will you work with other people? sure. if someone is coming up with a good idea, we will support a good idea. we are not going against the others because — for courses of principle, we are just focused on our programme. some are picking up our programme, of course we will support it. are you already talking to other parties? no, at the moment. i mean, the election is a week ago, at the moment, we are establishing u . so we are not yet in talks with other parties. but of course, we are proposing that programme, and we can see that they picked it up, we need an enquiry commission in the parliament. this has been picked up by the liberals, for example. it's the social democrats who came up with the idea to have a migration law, like canada has one.
12:53 am
so we see that they are coming up with a programme. and if they come to the parliament with those ideas, we will of course support it, of course. now, alexander gauland, as i say, your co—leader, said, "the government should get ready for tough times, we will hound her" — angela merkel. "we'll get our country and our people back." what does it mean? what are you actually going to do? well, we will have a strong debate, we will ask difficult questions. we will focus on the government, we'll control the government — that's the role of opposition. 0pposition has to control the government. this has not taken place the last years. we have had a grand coalition with the left and greens and the government — no, not in the government, sorry — in the opposition, but not going against the government. but basically, supporting it in all major ideas. so this is something that would change dramatically. we will have real debates again in our parliament. we are no longer used to that.
12:54 am
in the process, if you pick up — we had the neo—nazi national democratic party calling on people to vote for the afd — you're quite relaxed about that, are you? you know, i don't have an impact on other parties. what is very clear for us, for example, and that's not for the christian democratic union — if someone has been a member of the npd, or has been in parliament for the npd, there is no chance to get a member in the afd. it is different with the christian democratic union. so in angela merkel‘s party, it's possible and it has happened that someone has been voted by the npd into the parliament, and just next year, he's going as a cdu member to the original parliament. so this was something that is not possible for us. we have got a very clear line on that. beatrix von storch, thank you very much. hello.
12:55 am
wednesday's weather gets off to a fine start for some of us, but things will have changed by wednesday night. wet and windy again. a chilly start, particularly in rural spots, and there will be an area of rainfall moving south of scotland overnight and stretching through parts of northern ireland. it's this weather front here, but it's this low pressure moving along the central swathes of the uk on wednesday night, turning things wet and windy. along with this weather fronts searching through scotland and northern ireland, showers heavy and thundery in the far north of scotland and some very gusty winds to begin the day.
12:56 am
easing as we go through the day. across a large part of england and wales, getting off to a chilly but fine start. a lot of sunshine around. there will be a few showers running into parts of north—west england. increasing cloud across northern ireland, some outbreaks of rain particular to the north. and the stretching through parts of south—west scotland and galloway. for much of northern scotland, some sunshine. very windy in the far north and northern isles to begin with. 50—60 miles per hour gusts. heavy showers, winds gradually easing during the day. elsewhere, rain starting to pick up. cloudy and wet in northern ireland in the afternoon. south—west scotland, northern england, some outbreaks into northern england as well. temperatures generally in the mid to low teens. pressure bringing rain across many parts of the uk on wednesday, looking very wet into lancashire. in the southern flanks, some gales developing. we could see gusts 50—60 miles per
12:57 am
hour. thursday is very windy. rain soon clearing away from southern england. a few showers into northern scotland and the irish sea coast, maybe parts of north—west england the midlands as well. many places dry with sunny spells. temperatures again around the mid—low teens. a windy day. on friday, high pressure building. things starting to quieten down a bit. variable cloud, sunny spells, many places dry. into the weekend, another area of low pressure. not quite as strong, but still some rain—bearing weather fronts pushing across the uk. so expect a lot of cloud on saturday and some outbreaks of rain as the day goes on. breezy, temperatures around 13—16 degrees. on sunday, some sunny spells around. one or two showers, but it is a quieter weather picture on sunday. i'm in singapore.
12:58 am
the headlines: a navy veteran and a special—needs teacher were amongst the 59 victims killed in america's deadliest ever shooting. it's emerged the gunman set up cameras in the room where he launched the attack. he was a sick man, a demented man. lot of problems, i guess, and we are looking into him very seriously, but we are dealing with a very, very sick individual. catalonia will declare independence from spain in a matter of days according to the catalan president. the king of spain accuses political leaders in catalonia of being disloyal. translation: these authorities have placed themselves outside of the law and democracy.
42 Views
IN COLLECTIONS
BBC News Television Archive Television Archive News Search ServiceUploaded by TV Archive on